Lost surround and sub ( after update ?)

Let’s hope 14.8 has solved this? There’s no release notes explaining the fixed bugs soo it’ll be a wait and see. 

Since I unplugged the Shield yesterday I’ve been using the system only with a PS5 and I have no issues.

OK, so this really does lead us to when you change channels and this sends a ‘signal’ to the ARC which it (seemingly) does not like or handle well - and for some reason and pattern we don’t yet understand. 

Hi All,

This morning I have followed the Engineers instructions by following a playbook using only the native applications on my Panasonic TV.

• Played several movies (Atmos and 5.1 Only) on Amazon for over 4 minutes.  All sound was normal.
• Played several movies on Netflix (Atmos and 5.1) for over 4 minutes. All sound was normal. 
• Randomly flicked between Amazon and Netflix to try and replicate the issue, but the issue could not be replicated.

At this stage, if the TV is not changing source or using AppleTV features like Match Frame or Match Content then the sound seems to be stable. I was unable to send a new diag to the engineer as the issue was not reproduced. I have updated the ticket and await further response from Sonos. 

I guess one way the community can test is by going through their playbook to trigger the issue BUT turning off features on AppleTV like Match Frame Rate and Match Content which will mean it’s ‘forced’ into Dolby Vision or something you select at all times. This will mean the TV should not try to adjust the picture when moving between different sources. If this is remaining more stable using the equipment in this way, then I can only assume we are narrowing down the problem. It’s not a fix of course, but it may help the Sonos Engineers understand what might be going on to trigger the issue.

Thanks,

Brad

@Brad Porter odd as at least once the fault happened to me mid film no swapping sources 

I have pasted below my original post with diagnostic number in case you missed it maybe the number is of use to you 

Just happened again listening to 5.1 source no app swapping 

Diagnostic number 964967776

Edit 

Oddly I fixed it differently this time 

I tried power cycling apple tv lg tv and arc tna

Then I removed the hdmi of the apple tv and reinserted it tna 

Finally I stopped the application on my phone and restarted it and it worked 🙏

Just to clarify @skullc, was that since the latest software release? If that issue can perhaps be reproduced easily with the recent update, I suspect another diagnostic report would perhaps prove helpful to the Support Staff in this instance.

@Ken_Griffiths no it was on 14.6 Sunday night just gone

No issues since update 

I’ve mostly been mostly focused on figuring out how to live with this bug so I’ve taken any step I could to minimize dropouts which has included using only one Apple TV and no other sources. When I do that, I haven’t experienced much in the way of dropouts. Maybe tonight I’ll try to see if I can break it using only my Apple TV and if not, plug in a second source and try again. I’ll also watch for any sign of screen blanking at times that I wouldn’t expect that could be caused by CEC error and see if there is any correlation with dropouts. 

Just happened to me for the first time when using only the PS5.

1079571951

I got blocked. Apparently opinions are not allowed here anymore.

Anyway, the issue happened for the first time after using only PS5.

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The one thing that is different in my case that I have not heard anyone mention here, is that I'm estimating about 80% of the time when I lose my sub, if I go into the Sonos app and turn the sub "OFF" sounds return to it and if I flip it back "ON" I lose it again. And it stays flip flopped until I power down. Sometimes this doesn't even work (the other 20%) and I have to power down no matter what. Anyone else experience this?

hmmm interesting I guess. Brad have you tried turning off match content on Apple TV and breaking it? I swear I feel like I tried this and still had the issue but I may be misremembering.

curiously when I’m using my no eARC workaround I have match content on and don’t have any issues

I’m also still really confused why I never experience the issue on my other system where video modes are frequently changing (SDR to HDR, 60hz to 120hz, etc)

another thing to consider is that when using TV native apps exclusively you would never run into LPCM or Dolby Mat which also seems to be a common overlap with some people experiencing issues.

OK. Just did a test. I'm using everything through WiFi (ARC, Sub, AppleTV). I run The Batman on HBOmax in Apple TV. Everything sounds great and running in Atmos. I go watch a few things non Atmos on HBO, come back to The Batman and Atmos is still there and sounds great. Switch to Prime Video on Apple TV, move around a bit. Everything sound and working as it should. Reopen HBOmax, hit play on The Batman, nothing coming out of the sub. But the bass comes back to full on the ARC and then backs the bass off when I re-enable the sub. So it is treating the ARC itself properly with the bass when this happens, and the lights on the sub (green and white) I lighting up depending on the on and off correctly, just no sub audio. It happens again and again if I switch apps,  use it for a few minutes, and go back

Diagnostic review #1959673949

I have done a lot of testing and am in contact with an engineer. Basically my conclusion at this point is that is definitely related to format switching. I have tested with the match features off on the Apple TV, but for me it make no difference. Not sure if it’s the lack of “real” eArc that is a difference for me. I have no eArc on/off or pass through options on my Sony Tv. It seems the TV is always doing something with the Apple Signal even though I have output mode set to “auto 1” which according to Sony should not touch the signal…

Playing native stuff from the TV will not trigger the problem for the duration I tried it…

I agree with that point. I was experiencing the problem mainly when browsing the Netflix library on Apple TV.

When I use Netflix native TV app the problem does not exist.

Today, after few days with ethernet connection I have turned on Apple TV again. It take about 1-2 minutes to loose surronds. But this time sub was still connected.

I found out that it is enough to reboot router and surround is back.

So I posted an incident I just had where I lost the sub when switching apps, but flicking the sub off and on in the app had the actual arc directing all the bass to the Arc and then away correctly, but for some reason a moderator has to verify the post first, but I just want to add, that I was able to alleviate the problem by just rebooting the Apple TV.

I have made some progress. With some settings changes on the Apple TV and Sony TV I cannot currently trigger the issue.

On the Apple TV 4K:

- Force Dolby 5.1

- Force 16 Bit Sound Mode

On the Sony Tv:

- Digital Audio out: Auto 2 (output only compressed audio for Multichannel content without change)

- Dolby Digital Plus output: Just Dolby Digital, not plus.
 

Not sure why this helps. It does strengthen my thesis that the problem is codec switch related.

I am really worried that Sonos will turn this around into “hey, it’s the combo of the Apple TV and older Sony Tv that is the cause”, when this worked really well up until a few weeks ago when the 14.6 update hit… More so when the changes I have made are all quality degrading.

i should also add that I am quite confident that this is a good stopgap for me. I have been able to very reliably trigger the problem by pausing content, especially Apple Music spatial audio. Now nothing will break the 5.1 signal playback through all speakers.

Granted, I could be back with bad news in an hour or 10,  but it would still be a vast improvement as I previously triggered it in 2 minutes.

Hi All,

Sorry for delay - I had a lot of issues at work today so could not spend time during the day!

I have now completed the testing steps provided by the Engineer - which was to unplug everything from the TV except the ARC, and then play a couple of movies for 4+ minutes and send a diagnostic report.

The Engineer still wants to understand this CEC error. 

The error that I'm seeing on my end is that the CEC feature from the TV it has a false value for the ARC which should not happen and it has a true value for a different product that is connected to your TV, which might be the Apple box. 

Not quite sure what that all means to be honest, but he appears to be looking into this area.

Thanks,

Brad

I’ve mostly seen this issue trigger initially and destabilize my system when I have 2 Apple TVs connected and I switch back and forth. Not exclusively, but mostly. “false value for the ARC which should not happen and it has a true value for a different product that is connected to your TV” seems to track for me. I suspect others who mainly use tv internal apps might not identify with this as much though. FWIW my TV is an LG C1 if we want to establish this is happening across tv manufacturers so support doesn’t point to one tv manufacturer as being the culprit. 

My thoughts from the comment was that the Apple TV was attempting to steal away the CEC focus away from your Sonos ARC - have you perhaps tried the Apple TV with the CEC ‘TV control’ disabled in its settings, or is that something you tried earlier?

I tried it. Doesn’t help 

May I ask why you’d have 2 Apple TV’s connected? 

Another theory I had a while back is that the Apple TV is trying to steal the audio from the TV so it can play it to a HomePod (a feature that it possesses). Even if there’s no HomePod present and the Apple TV isn’t connected to an ARC/eARC port, it could be erroneously asking the tv for the audio explaining the error in CEC true/false value. Again doesn’t explain the issue for users not using an Apple TV or device with similar capability but seems plausible based on your info and my observations

The second is connected to my vpn router. Hasn’t been a big deal to live without it so I’ve mostly left it disconnected. Every time I try it again I trigger the issue and have frequent dropouts with any codec/app/source switching for a few days until I disconnect/reconnect and power cycle everything to restore stability. 

Based on my experience I am prepared to bet big on this being a format/codec issue on the Sonos side. Any takers? (See earlier post.)