End of Software Support - Clarifications

A very timely comparison… In less than 1 month, new policies re: disrupting integration support for legacy speakers and upgrade ‘device-bricking’ requirements, are severely eroding the SONOS brand reputation. Namely, #1 Ecosystem, #3 Loyalty, and #4 Commitment to Eco-Sustainability. An important lesson here…

Sorry, could you elaborate on the ‘device bricking’ requirements you’re speaking of? The only ‘device bricking’ I’m aware of is part of the recycling program, where it makes some sense, since you’re making the trade for a 30% discount on future goods. 

Apple is maintaining a https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in program too...

Apples program is that you send them the device at their cost and they ensure it’s recycled. 
Sonos’ program is that they render the old device useless, declare the recycling to be the users’ responsibility and [green]wash their hands of the problem.

They’re not directly comparable policies, are they?

Sonos offers the same policy.  You can ship your units to them at their cost and they will recycle them.  It's not mandatory, but you can choose to do it.

Fair enough, I didn’t realise that. Ok, objection to that aspect of the scheme resolved. 

So aside from the name on the corporation, why is Apple a paragon of virtue and Sonos evil incarnate?  Both stop supporting devices with new features, but allow them to work on if you choose.  Both responsibly recycle their devices if they are retired, paying for all shipping/recycling costs.  Both offer a trade-in incentive to purchase new products.

Also, I find it hysterical that Apple’s scheme to artificially slow down older devices is now being spun into “increased battery life” and an example of Apple’s “loyalty”.  One thing is for sure, the Jobsian Reality Distortion Field assures people will buy any amount of BS as long as it comes from Cupertino.  

In general, I think comparisons between the tech giants (Apple, Amazon, Google, etc) and single market companies like Sonos need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Tech giants can take losses in one market and make it up in other markets, with the goal of keeping customers engaged in several different markets with them, or increasing sales in one particular market.    Obviously, single market companies don’t have the same ability to take losses as they can’t make it up in other markets.  It’s not exactly an equal playing field.

I noticed that my Connect:Amp (circa 2016) is not eligible for upgrade.  I did not realize that Connect and Connect:Amp devices manufactured after 2015 are not affected.  That makes a big difference in my opinion.  I was under the impression that all Connects, including those that were still for sale last year, would be impacted, which would really suck if you had just bought one.  But if all "legacy” devices have been off the market for 5+ years, I think ending support for those devices is not unreasonable.  It seems to me that Sonos just really botched the communication of what was happening.

They did botch the communication a bit, which has been compounded by a spread of incorrect information about the event.  Sonos has also tried to limit the information they share, as they typically do, which has resulted in assumptions about details that Sonos isn’t sharing.

Actually I think it’s more than simply botched communication. For years Sonos has sold what appeared to all consumers as the same product without informing anybody that the internals were changing in a way that could make the earlier revisions obsolete. I suspect that this is one of the reasons some people have stated that they purchased legacy components in recent years, no way or reasona to identify old stock. Changing the mute button for a play/pause button doesn’t lead one to the natural conclusion that the product is significantly different. 

Furthermore, as I’ve stated before on this thread, their corporate messaging remains missleading to this day. For example their website still says “Hook up your turntable to Play:5 or Amp to stream vinyl all around your home.” I have 2 Play:5s (Gen 1) that are now legacy and will likely not be able to stream to modern devices come May (unless I freeze all updates to all devices). 

Now you may say that they mean only the Gen 2 Play:5 so how about this one:

All Sonos speakers and components connect over WiFi so you can build the system you want. Put on a podcast in the bedroom while someone else watches TV in the living room, or group all your speakers to play music in sync.

Can someone tell me how this is not missleading? yes it may still be true at this very moment but they have announced their intention to break this functionality.

In my mind this goes beyond botched communications and rather goes to a fundamental change to what the company offers (offered): a single integrated multi-room audio systems that can grow over time. 

I just find it crazy that my perfectly performing system is now going to be compromised because it contains a Play 5 (gen 1).  The play 5 works perfectly and it in showroom condition.  My expectation when purchasing was that it would work until there was a component failure and not stop working because of software limitations.  This was not made clear when I purchased.  I purchased a speaker that would play music over wifi and I viewed that as limitless.  They really must start selling their kit with expiry dates so that customers know the lifespan of the now disposable kit.  The environmental impact is even more infuriating.  

I don’t think you can really say that your Play 5s will stop stop working that way.  We’ll find out in May, but my understanding is that updates to legacy devices stop in May.  That doesn’t mean they’ll stop working or your system will be crippled in May.  Everything should continue to work as normal,  Sometime down the road, you may run into problems with your legacy devices, but it shouldn’t be as early as May.

Systems containing legacy devices will as I understand stil it be able to group with modern devices as long as they are kept on “legacy grade” software. So you will get safety upgrades.

Possible disadvantages: over time some new features will not be available to you. More importantly current features may degrade and newly bought devices may not be able to be grouped with your current devices because the new device will possibly be on the newest software. We will know more about this from may.

The latest email says that following:

“Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.”

When the CEO says that they “are working on a way to split your system” I don’t know why I wouldn’t believe his words. Splitting the system is not the same as having a single integrated multi-room audio system. Also saying that the products will coexist is a far cry from their existing language of grouping all the speakers to play music in sync. I can only believe that if they are using different words they are meant to have a different meaning. 

I hope to be proven wrong and that you are right but the choice of words leads me to believe that I won’t be.

Hey all, this is certainly a very sensitive issue and I have struggled about what to do with a system taht has served me well for all these years. I weighed out the options with trading in for newer Sonos units,  moving to Denon Heos or Bluesound. 

If it werent for the decision of Sonos to discontinue support for the “legacy units” I would of kept this sonos system going for another 10 years and probably added a couple of units in the spring to my 4 unit system and never even considered replacing my current units, if I am going to spend new money on gear I cant in good conscience give my money to the company that is making me spend it in the first place. 

So I have already purchased 6 new units form Bluesound and will sell my current Sonos sytem for whatever I can to try and recover atleast some of the cost of the new system. 

I can only say I am sorry to leave the Sonos comunity that I enjoyed for 9 years, But when a company decides to make decisions that favor there share holders as oppsed to the people who pay for the products it time to jump ship. 

Good luck to all. 

You do realize Bluesound is vulnerable to the same future compatibility issues, as are all processor/RAM/storage based streaming devices?  Sonos is just the first to face these issues because they were first to market (though Bose did just discontinue their entire SoundTouch lineup because they couldn’t make them compatible with Alexa).

jgatie, I did consider this and came to the conclusion that Bluesound is on there third generation, there current generation the i series is running the same cortex A9 processor that the current generation is running, I also know that there first generation devices are also still supported.

On the bluesound forums this issue was raised by fellow Sonos converts, Bluesond's response was that they have no intention of making any of there devices "legacy" and point to the fact that there older first gen  hardware is still supported, but you are right that I do take a chance that the same thing could potentially happen down the line. 

I do also get the sense that Sonos will do this much more often than any one else in the future.

Bluesound is affiliated with NAD who make high end audio components that are upgradeable by replacing modules not whole units, you pay more for NAD/Bluesound but people keep them for much longer.

I have no ill will towards Sonos, my decision was based on Sonos forcing my hand if bluesound does the same thing down the line I will kick them to the curb as well.

God I’ve lost the will to live, I not been here few a couple of weeks and it seems the thread is descending into a slanging match. Remember where our anger should be directed, I seen many comments about support periods. I brought a system that made no mention of support periods and the goal posts were moved later. If I buy a product with support, a time period is specified at the time of purchase not after the event of purchase.

Where did you get the idea that support is ending for any Sonos products? 

I give up, and throw my hands up in disbelief😱

It does depend on what you mean by ‘support’.  The speakers will still function, and receive bug fixes and security updates.  That apart there will be no new software support.  I would not call that ending support entirely.  But the semantics don’t matter provided we all understand what is and isn’t happening.  It is just that the impression has often been given on here that the speakers will not work after May.

Why?  Legacy products will not receive new features.  New feature are not “support”, they are new features.  You will still receive bug fixes and security updates for legacy products.  You will still receive support via phone, Twitter/Facebook, and this website.  Call the hotline about a Play:5 Gen 1 after May and you will get the exact same support as before May.  

Will my system still stream music after May, the answer is possibly not, possibly will but depends if anything changes with the stream service. Sonos have not committed any  definite information on this so in my book support for my product ends the day my system stops doing what I brought it for. If you wish to invest your hard earned money into a now flawed concept that’s your choice, as I mentioned some time ago the concept of smart devices is open to the whims of the manufacturers. I don’t really want to go over old ground but I’ll recap. Was sonos promoted as a smart speaker, no. Was it promoted as a system to be built on, yes. Was it stated that these products would stop receiving updates to make them function for the purpose they were brought for, no. Was it stated there be and end life to these products due to updates stopping, no. Do I want new features, no. Should it be upto a user if they want new features, yes. Or do I need to put it even more simply would you ever buy a car from a dealer that has ripped you off previously. As I said your money your choice my money will go else where until such time sonos decides to change this ridiculous policy.  

Drawing comparisons between cars and multiroom systems is nonsensical, since cars are neither multiroom-enabled nor do they receive storage space consuming firmware updates.