End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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A
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

Drawing comparisons between cars and multiroom systems is nonsensical, since cars are neither multiroom-enabled nor do they receive storage space consuming firmware updates.

The Comparison  was how a company treats  and views its users. And just for info most modem cars have firmware and at times is updated

jgatie

Will my system still stream music after May, the answer is possibly not, possibly will but depends if anything changes with the stream service. Sonos have not committed any  definite information on this so in my book support for my product ends the day my system stops doing what I brought it for. If you wish to invest your hard earned money into a now flawed concept that’s your choice, as I mentioned some time ago the concept of smart devices is open to the whims of the manufacturers. I don’t really want to go over old ground but I’ll recap. Was sonos promoted as a smart speaker, no. Was it promoted as a system to be built on, yes. Was it stated that these products would stop receiving updates to make them function for the purpose they were brought for, no. Was it stated there be and end life to these products due to updates stopping, no. Do I want new features, no. Should it be upto a user if they want new features, yes. Or do I need to put it even more simply would you ever buy a car from a dealer that has ripped you off previously. As I said your money your choice my money will go else where until such time sonos decides to change this ridiculous policy.  

 

Your idea of support and my idea of support are two different things.  After May, I can still call up Sonos’ Support number and talk to them about my Play:5 Gen 1 or my ZP80. 

And once again, they are not going to “stop receiving updates to make them function for the purpose they were brought (sic) for”.  The CEO expressly promised that legacy Sonos will receive bug fixes and security updates to keep them working as they do today for as long as possible.  That’s 100% the opposite of “stop receiving updates to make them function for the purpose they were brought (sic) for”.

So I’ll recap - I get it that you wish to paint Sonos in a bad light, but you are painting with a very broad, and very misleading brush.  So forgive me if I don’t buy your seemingly feigned surprise when someone calls you out on it.

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

Will my system still stream music after May, the answer is possibly not, possibly will but depends if anything changes with the stream service. Sonos have not committed any  definite information on this so in my book support for my product ends the day my system stops doing what I brought it for. If you wish to invest your hard earned money into a now flawed concept that’s your choice, as I mentioned some time ago the concept of smart devices is open to the whims of the manufacturers. I don’t really want to go over old ground but I’ll recap. Was sonos promoted as a smart speaker, no. Was it promoted as a system to be built on, yes. Was it stated that these products would stop receiving updates to make them function for the purpose they were brought for, no. Was it stated there be and end life to these products due to updates stopping, no. Do I want new features, no. Should it be upto a user if they want new features, yes. Or do I need to put it even more simply would you ever buy a car from a dealer that has ripped you off previously. As I said your money your choice my money will go else where until such time sonos decides to change this ridiculous policy.  

 

Your idea of support and my idea of support are two different things.  After May, I can still call up Sonos’ Support number and talk to them about my Play:5 Gen 1 or my ZP80. 

And once again, they are not going to “stop receiving updates to make them function for the purpose they were brought (sic) for”.  The CEO expressly promised that legacy Sonos will receive bug fixes and security updates to keep them working as they do today for as long as possible.  That’s 100% the opposite of “stop receiving updates to make them function for the purpose they were brought (sic) for”.

So I’ll recap - I get it that you wish to paint Sonos in a bad light, but you are painting with a very broad, and very misleading brush.  So forgive me if I don’t buy your seemingly feigned surprise when someone calls you out on it.

Obviously your not getting what I’m saying. People brought into a system that was promoted as a music hi fi system, that would be updated, no mention of legacy systems or end of life because they want to introduce new features. I’m not painting sonos in a bad light there doing a good job of that for themselves. If they want new features and users want that then all good but don’t shaft your exsisting users who have supported sonos like I have and exalted the virtues of sonos. I’m sorry but with two rather inept statements from the ceo don’t just cut it, or that I’m bothered with your thoughts on my feigned surprise.

I’m not bothering here anymore if this thread as it’s becoming to acidic.

 

User694694
Userlevel 5
Badge +4

Will my system still stream music after May, the answer is possibly not, possibly will but depends if anything changes with the stream service. Sonos have not committed any  definite information on this so in my book support for my product ends the day my system stops doing what I brought it for. If you wish to invest your hard earned money into a now flawed concept that’s your choice, as I mentioned some time ago the concept of smart devices is open to the whims of the manufacturers. I don’t really want to go over old ground but I’ll recap. Was sonos promoted as a smart speaker, no. Was it promoted as a system to be built on, yes. Was it stated that these products would stop receiving updates to make them function for the purpose they were brought for, no. Was it stated there be and end life to these products due to updates stopping, no. Do I want new features, no. Should it be upto a user if they want new features, yes. Or do I need to put it even more simply would you ever buy a car from a dealer that has ripped you off previously. As I said your money your choice my money will go else where until such time sonos decides to change this ridiculous policy.  

 

Your idea of support and my idea of support are two different things.  After May, I can still call up Sonos’ Support number and talk to them about my Play:5 Gen 1 or my ZP80. 

And once again, they are not going to “stop receiving updates to make them function for the purpose they were brought (sic) for”.  The CEO expressly promised that legacy Sonos will receive bug fixes and security updates to keep them working as they do today for as long as possible.  That’s 100% the opposite of “stop receiving updates to make them function for the purpose they were brought (sic) for”.

So I’ll recap - I get it that you wish to paint Sonos in a bad light, but you are painting with a very broad, and very misleading brush.  So forgive me if I don’t buy your seemingly feigned surprise when someone calls you out on it.

 

Bug fixes are not “updates”. In the original communications, it was stated that “updates” would be required to keep streaming music services going. In the clarification a few days later, it was reiterated that Legacy devices would not receive updates, but they would receive “bug fixes”. So, this statement does nothing to ameliorate concern about streaming music services deprecating.

U
Userlevel 2

I can tell this forum is plagued with paid PR crisis response agents.  Which really sucks. This troll style responses to trigger silly argumentation over semantics. Typical. if anything it shows how concerned Sonos is and aware they screwed up. 

 

Leaving the Trolls aside.  I would love to understand why a Play:5 is legacy and a Play:3 isn’t.   Or why a bridge which doesn’t DO anything but “bridge” the network with the sonos grid is also legacy. Or why a connect is legacy.  All I want to to do is distribute my music over the grid.  Spotify works on very little resources.  Audio coming from my own sources is just a digital transfer which they have been doing very well for all these years.  All of a sudden I need to break my grid in different groups of legacy Vs not if I want to get software updates (aka Spotify will eventually stop working). So, please clarify… will you guarantee that Spotify will continue to work in a legacy grid ? (No updates). Don’t force me to break my Sonos network for updates I don’t need for services I don’t use or worse, break a service I do use who I am sure doesn’t want to release any updates that require different hardware (Spotify). 
 


 

 

C
Userlevel 3

It has been over a month since you made this ridiculous announcement and I have yet to see an ample response. Your products distribute music, it is a very basic thing. Please provide us a technical reason why you can’t continue to support the distribution of streaming music through the network…..other than your greed to try and get everyone to “upgrade”. I can assure you that most of your customers will be migrating to other systems if you can’t at least provide a realistic response!  
 

You have lost me as a customer for life and I have been sure to tell others to never buy anything you make. 

J

A very basic thing? ROFL.

J

 I would love to understand why a Play:5 is legacy and a Play:3 isn’t.
 

Maybe because the Play:3 has twice the memory of a Gen 1 Play:5?

P
Userlevel 5
Badge +1

 I would love to understand why a Play:5 is legacy and a Play:3 isn’t.
 

Maybe because the Play:3 has twice the memory of a Gen 1 Play:5?

John. I’d dipped out of this conversation as it keeps asking the same questions. However... still waiting for someone to explain why legacy products can’t continue to be updated to provide basic functionality - i.e. streaming music - pretty much forever. That’s all most of us want, forget about gimmicky addons.

Ken_Griffiths

 I would love to understand why a Play:5 is legacy and a Play:3 isn’t.
 

Maybe because the Play:3 has twice the memory of a Gen 1 Play:5?

John. I’d dipped out of this conversation as it keeps asking the same questions. However... still waiting for someone to explain why legacy products can’t continue to be updated to provide basic functionality - i.e. streaming music - pretty much forever. That’s all most of us want, forget about gimmicky addons.

That’s indeed the plan, the devices with less-memory will step across to the legacy system and will be kept running with all the features they have today and will receive updates related to security and to keep their services running for as long as its practicable to do so and for the foreseeable future.

Only the products held in a modern system will get any new features.  

So if you do nothing and stick with a legacy setup, then nothing will really change at all with your current Sonos devices… that is (perhaps) the 'most simplistic' way of looking at the recent Sonos announcements.

J

 I would love to understand why a Play:5 is legacy and a Play:3 isn’t.
 

Maybe because the Play:3 has twice the memory of a Gen 1 Play:5?

John. I’d dipped out of this conversation as it keeps asking the same questions. However... still waiting for someone to explain why legacy products can’t continue to be updated to provide basic functionality - i.e. streaming music - pretty much forever. That’s all most of us want, forget about gimmicky addons.

I cannot ne sure, but I imagine it might be possible to do that. But that would involve fully maintaining two parallel active systems, one of them used by a fairly tiny,  and dwindling, number of users.

Probably just not economic in an increasingly competitive market.  This tbread has been full of reminders about the alternatives available, after all. 

That's just guesswork on my part, of course.

J
Badge

After a scan of my system, Most of my players are on the 30% discount upgrade list so that’ fine, but one isn’t.  On the Sonos webpage (after checking for legacy products) there is this comment. “If you're having trouble updating, there are alternative ways to recycle and earn 30% off” I have such a ZP80… what exactly are the alternative ways to recycle and earn 30% off? I can’t find them anywhere on the Sonos webpage.. Thanks! 

P
Userlevel 3
Badge +4

it’s more positive a word than recycle, it’s trade up :grinning:

https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/tradeup

J
Badge

^ Sure happy to trade up… I got it sorted by calling the Sonos help… now waiting for a manual update, then process email back discount etc.. I have to say I’m impressed by Sonos support.. cudos to Sonos! 

M
Userlevel 1

Bottom line is that they have lost me and a huge amount of others as customers. NOTHING will make me buy a Sonos product ever again.

And the fact they they obviously have Sonos employees or family of such posting on here makes it all the more pathetic. A sorry attempt at a PR spin.

M
Userlevel 1

^ Sure happy to trade up… I got it sorted by calling the Sonos help… now waiting for a manual update, then process email back discount etc.. I have to say I’m impressed by Sonos support.. cudos to Sonos! 

So how long have you worked for Sonos?

J
Badge

I don’t work for Sonos. I’ve had the product more than 10 years… it was a genuine comment...

P
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

 I would love to understand why a Play:5 is legacy and a Play:3 isn’t.
 

Maybe because the Play:3 has twice the memory of a Gen 1 Play:5?

John. I’d dipped out of this conversation as it keeps asking the same questions. However... still waiting for someone to explain why legacy products can’t continue to be updated to provide basic functionality - i.e. streaming music - pretty much forever. That’s all most of us want, forget about gimmicky addons.

I cannot ne sure, but I imagine it might be possible to do that. But that would involve fully maintaining two parallel active systems, one of them used by a fairly tiny,  and dwindling, number of users.

Probably just not economic in an increasingly competitive market.  This tbread has been full of reminders about the alternatives available, after all. 

That's just guesswork on my part, of course.

You can’t have it both ways. Sonos used to boast that 92% of the products they ever sold were still in use. How to do get from that to “fairly tiny, and dwindling, number of users”? I know that some would say that we are in a post-fact world but if you are going to make such a statement please back it up. What percentage of Sonos users will be affected by this? How many emails informing users that their equipment will be legacy were sent out? Should be easy to prove your point.

Sounds to me like wishful thinking. 

Also we know it’s at least hundreds since Sonos breached their privacy when sending the emails. 

J

@patbla  . I am not sure in what sense I am trying to 'have it both ways'. I presume Sonos could support 'legacy' systems more fully than they are planning to,  but have chosen not to do so. I don't know what proportion of users will opt for legacy mode but I doubt it will be large. And is it not inevitable that it would dwindle,  as older units failed and people are tempted to upgrade by new features?

melvimbe

Bottom line is that they have lost me and a huge amount of others as customers. NOTHING will make me buy a Sonos product ever again.

And the fact they they obviously have Sonos employees or family of such posting on here makes it all the more pathetic. A sorry attempt at a PR spin.

 

Your anger/frustration is understandable, but I don’t think that means anyone who shares a different opinion than you is a paid opinion.  If there are flaws with someone’s point of view, why not point out where it’s logically incorrect?

Danny
J

^ Sure happy to trade up… I got it sorted by calling the Sonos help… now waiting for a manual update, then process email back discount etc.. I have to say I’m impressed by Sonos support.. cudos to Sonos! 

So how long have you worked for Sonos?

Utterly pathetic, @Macca11.  

S
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

It’s entirely possible to be positive about the work Sonos support does and yet still be dismayed and angered by the policies of Sonos management. Without being a shill for the company.

For example, when my “legacy” Bridge didn’t show up with a 30 percent trade-up discount (for a Boost), I contacted Sonos support and expected nothing. However, they did get back to me with the 30 percent discount on a Boost, if I wanted one. I did appreciate that. (I’ve chosen to hold off until I see how the legacy vs. modern set up plays out.)

That doesn’t change my distrust and dismay at both the “legacy” policy and announcement by upper management. I’m not about to sing Sonos’ praises. 

I’m just one of many waiting until May to see how this develops, and if Sonos engineering can make it right without splitting a whole-house system into two unequal parts of legacy and modern. Until then, it’s all speculation if you’re outside the company. As I am.

J

You can’t have it both ways. Sonos used to boast that 92% of the products they ever sold were still in use. How to do get from that to “fairly tiny, and dwindling, number of users”? I know that some would say that we are in a post-fact world but if you are going to make such a statement please back it up. What percentage of Sonos users will be affected by this? How many emails informing users that their equipment will be legacy were sent out? Should be easy to prove your point.

Sounds to me like wishful thinking. 

Also we know it’s at least hundreds since Sonos breached their privacy when sending the emails. 

OK. Let’s be logical about this.  The 92% is almost irrelevant.  What matters is sales growth over time.  Sonos’ sales growth has been strong. So even if Sonos products never failed, and that figure was 100% not 92%, it would still be the case that a large proportion of Sonos users started within the last five years and have no legacy products.  When I first saw Sonos at a friend’s house in 2009 it was a still a tiny niche player compared with today.  The Play;5 gen 1 had not even quite been launched.  The proportion of total Sonos devices that are legacy devices is going to be tiny for that reason alone. it is anybody’s guess, but mine would be less than 5%, possibly less than 1%.  Yes the survival rate for Sonos equipment is incredibly good - but compared with recent times, there just weren’t many made and sold. 

Of those users with legacy equipment, not all will choose to go into legacy mode.  Some will wave Sonos goodbye.  Others will upgrade.  Yes there are at least hundreds of angry people...but Sonos has how many customers worldwide now?  I think I heard 2 million, although that might be wrong.  And of course there will be many who are angry but haven’t posted on here.

So if you want to give up on Sonos, your choice.  If you want to bad-mouth them to friends that is your right.  I think that is unjustified but you are entitled to believe otherwise.  This episode will have damaged Sonos but not much.  The vast, vast majority of users are unaffected or little affected.  Sonos would have been damaged more by the restrictions on development that would have resulted from carrying the dead weight of the legacy devices - or seeking to support fully two diverging code bases.

Right decision, clumsily handled.  Little adverse impact long term.

P
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

@John B: I don’t know what percentage will opt for legacy mode but I would not assume that it will be tiny. If it was so tiny then Sonos could have offered better terms for upgrading legacy equipment as it would have been a small impact on their bottom line and they would have been praised instead of vilified. The fact is that they offered a relatively meager discount in exchange of components, that at least at this point in time, have less functionnality than the components they are meant to replace (e.g. Port doesn’t have optical line in which the Connect has). The fact is that anybody who doesn’t feel that the meager trade in offer is of value will have a legacy network (maybe all legacy or maybe mixed and limiting modern equipment). I suspect those will not be small numbers.

I have a mixed environment throughout my house which includes almost every class of component made by Sonos (Play:1, 3, 5 (gen 1), Connect, Connect:Amp, Playbar, Sub, CR200). I also support a friend’s system so I have over 15 components on my account that will be legacy. 

There is no way that I will be giving Sonos the amount of money they are expecting. I believe I am much better off giving it to other’s who provide more functionality (e.g. 5ghz wifi, bluetooth, airplay, chromecast) which will likely allow me to continue to use the equipment after they choose to stop supporting it.

J

Hi. That's a reasonable comment. I meant that the proportion of total Sonos users who will end up on legacy will be small. This was in response to someone saying that Sonos should fully support legacy systems. I agree that of those who need to choose, quite a large proportion may choose legacy.

Edit  -FWIW I also agree that Sonos should have offered a bigger discount.

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