End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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J

But they have said what the options will be.  If they haven't changed their minds what else is there to say?

Sounds like you are across or then. So John, what happens in a few months or years time, there are more legacy "part 2" devices? Do those devices that were part of the modern group in modern firmware working with the latest streaming services, be pushed back to the legacy group? So in effect then all future marked legacy would go back to what will work ending May 2020?

Or will there be multiple legacy groups, all supporting different services? You could end up then with 3 or 4 groups in years to come.

 

 

I don’t know.  There is no way Sonos are going to repeat this exercise in months, so it will be a few years before this possibly becomes an issue.  Given how long they have have kept the 32MB devices going on miniscule marginal amounts of memory, I believe that is likely to be many years.  And I can live with the possibility that I might be wrong.  Life is uncertain.  II have no intention of worrying about what my options might be in a hypothetical situation some years from now.  I’ll make my choice on the information available at the time, and then change if necessary as things pan out.  If this is the biggest thing I have to worry about in that period I shall count myself truly blessed.

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

 

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

 

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

Actually let me tell you about the path forward.

I have just bought a new Bose soundbar for our spare room. The Sonos one rates better and costs more or less the same but I’m no longer convinced of the benefits of the ‘smart’, ‘integrated’ network if the products are only supported for a few years.

I’ll keep what we’ve got (16 Sonos devices apparently) going while I can but you guys aren’t on the short list for replacements.

Looks to me like Sonos needs new managment

And that’s my point, said a few times over a couple of threads

Most likely you might not have changed your product colour and loyalty had you have had clear comms and reassurances. I feel in a similar boat.

I don’t have the time or inclination to do too much tech sparring, I just want to believe in a product that works and plays well with others. And to the largest extent I still have that in Sonos. Indeed it’s working in 3 rooms right now and doing a fine job.

But if we’d be kept better updated with solid directions then I would not be looking at  Pi-DigiAMP+, Allo Boss Player, Meridian, or Bluesound blah blah…. or even know what they are!

Now I know what they are (fuelled by this mess) then I can see some clear positives and for sure some complexities. 

Feed people the right data and they will hold their position. They will wait, they might give the benefit of the doubt. And we had a little data from Sonos management for sure … but not a great deal.

Ryan has done a sound job at his pay grade of providing what he can and that’s appreciated.

But I don’t accept this ‘wait and see’ with some very sketchy broad parameters messages. Or rather I did at the time and gave the benefit of the doubt. That was a while ago.

It’s a little like when BA (or any airline) cancels a load of flights …. folks maybe upset but (in the main) will be more likely to understand if they are kept informed regularly. Keep them in the dark and they will whine their ass off to anyone who will listen.

Even if the message is not definitive …. a ‘hold on guys, we are getting there, big noise a coming’ type statements would help even the most jaded Sonos person to some extent.

This last few weeks has been a boot camp of involuntary ‘learning the alternatives’ out there. Sounds like you had similar. A lesson I never wanted but now raise an eyebrow over.

Let’s have some messages Sonos. Can it be that hard?

 

melvimbe

But I don’t accept this ‘wait and see’ with some very sketchy broad parameters messages. Or rather I did at the time and gave the benefit of the doubt. That was a while ago.

 

 

Even if the message is not definitive …. a ‘hold on guys, we are getting there, big noise a coming’ type statements would help even the most jaded Sonos person to some extent.

 

 

I’m not understanding how a  ‘hold on guys’ type statement from Sonos is not the ‘wait and see’ message you stated you don’t accept.  What’s the difference?  Are you suggesting that Sonos should essentially repeat the same message they’ve already given every so often until may comes around?

 

This last few weeks has been a boot camp of involuntary ‘learning the alternatives’ out there. Sounds like you had similar. A lesson I never wanted but now raise an eyebrow over.

Let’s have some messages Sonos. Can it be that hard?

 

The one thing I don’t think Sonos should do is really information that isn’t solid yet.  People are making financial decisions based on what Sonos has stated and get understandably upset when Sonos reversees course on something.  As an example, Sonos first statement gave the impression that Legacy systems would not have any bug fixes or security updates.  Within 48 hours, that decision was reserved.  During that time some people decided to enter the trade in program, but now regret it because a legacy system with bug fixes/security updates is was their preferred option.

 

I understand the desire for answers now.  Besides just some peace of mind, it’s probable that used prices will go down rather quickly between now and May.  The trade in program will be there, but if you think you might want out of Sonos, it’s not that helpful.

Danny
A
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

But I don’t accept this ‘wait and see’ with some very sketchy broad parameters messages. Or rather I did at the time and gave the benefit of the doubt. That was a while ago.

 

 

Even if the message is not definitive …. a ‘hold on guys, we are getting there, big noise a coming’ type statements would help even the most jaded Sonos person to some extent.

 

 

I’m not understanding how a  ‘hold on guys’ type statement from Sonos is not the ‘wait and see’ message you stated you don’t accept.  What’s the difference?  Are you suggesting that Sonos should essentially repeat the same message they’ve already given every so often until may comes around?

 

This last few weeks has been a boot camp of involuntary ‘learning the alternatives’ out there. Sounds like you had similar. A lesson I never wanted but now raise an eyebrow over.

Let’s have some messages Sonos. Can it be that hard?

 

The one thing I don’t think Sonos should do is really information that isn’t solid yet.  People are making financial decisions based on what Sonos has stated and get understandably upset when Sonos reversees course on something.  As an example, Sonos first statement gave the impression that Legacy systems would not have any bug fixes or security updates.  Within 48 hours, that decision was reserved.  During that time some people decided to enter the trade in program, but now regret it because a legacy system with bug fixes/security updates is was their preferred option.

 

I understand the desire for answers now.  Besides just some peace of mind, it’s probable that used prices will go down rather quickly between now and May.  The trade in program will be there, but if you think you might want out of Sonos, it’s not that helpful.

 

Each to their own opinion wise. Respect your view.

What I can share with you is that I have worked for too many years (in a decision making capacity) in a very similar sector, and I know the reaction curve that we go through when we have (rarely) messed up in such a way. And it is show stopping, decisive and customer focused to the max. Maybe that’s just the Japanese consumer electrics MO.

There is no way on earth that a company of Sono’s mid (or our significantly bigger) size, does not know the plan. The small print? Sure … they got 10 weeks left for that. Only the tech focused folks here will care about that.

I too take a ‘more sympathetic’ stance than some of the guys on this thread. I have zero interest in seeing them die a death … far from. But part of that is proper communications. They did a bit, fair enough. But no-where near enough … at this point.

And yes, for many, a simple progress statement would likely be enough. Check back how many comment are from folks who have either a. gone elsewhere b. thinking about going elsewhere or c. have decided (regardless of action and comms … good or bad) they are out of here. And as you say people have (and are) making those financial decision. Me included. And they don’t fare well for Sonos if this thread is indicative of the feeling out there.

So if the overwhelming trend is towards disaffection and migration (or even testing the water elsewhere)…  what can they possibly loose updating the crowd on strategy already well in the development curve? it can only improve matters.

And if they really don’t know at this point, then we really do have a problem. I don’t think that’s the case, not that my opinion matters. 

It’s rare in business that proper communications spoil the situation … not unheard of but rare. And the tone in more recent days of folks on here seems to be one of … ‘let us know and we will at least think about it’ … reasonable stuff.

Sonos is in a recovery situation here. So simple stuff, update the people. We can split infinitives as to the wording stance but on the commercial side and the architecture side, there will be news …. so share it.

melvimbe

There is no way on earth that a company of Sono’s mid (or our significantly bigger) size, does not know the plan. The small print? Sure … they got 10 weeks left for that. Only the tech focused folks here will care about that.

 

 

And yest the original plan of not providing any bug fixes on legacy products has already been reversed.  I’m not sure how you can claim there is not chance that the plan already known when the we’ve already seen the plan change once.  Besides this, I’m not sure what aspect of the plan you think needs to be communicated that isn’t ‘small print’.

 

I too take a ‘more sympathetic’ stance than some of the guys on this thread. I have zero interest in seeing them die a death … far from. But part of that is proper communications. They did a bit, fair enough. But no-where near enough … at this point.

And yes, for many, a simple progress statement would likely be enough. Check back how many comment are from folks who have either a. gone elsewhere b. thinking about going elsewhere or c. have decided (regardless of action and comms … good or bad) they are out of here. And as you say people have (and are) making those financial decision. Me included. And they don’t fare well for Sonos if this thread is indicative of the feeling out there.

 

 

Options A and C sound like the same thing.  I don’t know how indicative this thread is of how people generally feel.  Even if it were, not everyone agrees with you that a simple progress statement is enough to make them happy.  Many people are asking that nothing changes at all. Some are asking for greater than 30% trade in discount.  Some are claiming that Sonos is lying about technical incompatibilities and is just acting out of greed.  I don’t think these people will be happy with more information from Sonos unless they get exactly what they are asking for. 

 

So if the overwhelming trend is towards disaffection and migration (or even testing the water elsewhere)…  what can they possibly loose updating the crowd on strategy already well in the development curve? it can only improve matters.

 

 

I already answered this.  Information that ends up getting reversed is bad info.  I don’t agree with your premise that the information/plan is already decided without possibility of change.  

 

And if they really don’t know at this point, then we really do have a problem. I don’t think that’s the case, not that my opinion matters. 

It’s rare in business that proper communications spoil the situation … not unheard of but rare. And the tone in more recent days of folks on here seems to be one of … ‘let us know and we will at least think about it’ … reasonable stuff.

Sonos is in a recovery situation here. So simple stuff, update the people. We can split infinitives as to the wording stance but on the commercial side and the architecture side, there will be news …. so share it.

 

To be clear, I’m not against Sonos providing updates.  I just don’t think they should say anything that isn’t 100% sure, and I don’t think it’s going to make to make many of the people that are upset about all this all that happy.  

Danny
A
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

There is no way on earth that a company of Sono’s mid (or our significantly bigger) size, does not know the plan. The small print? Sure … they got 10 weeks left for that. Only the tech focused folks here will care about that.

 

 

And yest the original plan of not providing any bug fixes on legacy products has already been reversed.  I’m not sure how you can claim there is not chance that the plan already known when the we’ve already seen the plan change once.  Besides this, I’m not sure what aspect of the plan you think needs to be communicated that isn’t ‘small print’.

 

I too take a ‘more sympathetic’ stance than some of the guys on this thread. I have zero interest in seeing them die a death … far from. But part of that is proper communications. They did a bit, fair enough. But no-where near enough … at this point.

And yes, for many, a simple progress statement would likely be enough. Check back how many comment are from folks who have either a. gone elsewhere b. thinking about going elsewhere or c. have decided (regardless of action and comms … good or bad) they are out of here. And as you say people have (and are) making those financial decision. Me included. And they don’t fare well for Sonos if this thread is indicative of the feeling out there.

 

 

Options A and C sound like the same thing.  I don’t know how indicative this thread is of how people generally feel.  Even if it were, not everyone agrees with you that a simple progress statement is enough to make them happy.  Many people are asking that nothing changes at all. Some are asking for greater than 30% trade in discount.  Some are claiming that Sonos is lying about technical incompatibilities and is just acting out of greed.  I don’t think these people will be happy with more information from Sonos unless they get exactly what they are asking for. 

 

So if the overwhelming trend is towards disaffection and migration (or even testing the water elsewhere)…  what can they possibly loose updating the crowd on strategy already well in the development curve? it can only improve matters.

 

 

I already answered this.  Information that ends up getting reversed is bad info.  I don’t agree with your premise that the information/plan is already decided without possibility of change.  

 

And if they really don’t know at this point, then we really do have a problem. I don’t think that’s the case, not that my opinion matters. 

It’s rare in business that proper communications spoil the situation … not unheard of but rare. And the tone in more recent days of folks on here seems to be one of … ‘let us know and we will at least think about it’ … reasonable stuff.

Sonos is in a recovery situation here. So simple stuff, update the people. We can split infinitives as to the wording stance but on the commercial side and the architecture side, there will be news …. so share it.

 

To be clear, I’m not against Sonos providing updates.  I just don’t think they should say anything that isn’t 100% sure, and I don’t think it’s going to make to make many of the people that are upset about all this all that happy.  

We agree to differ. Mind you, you absolutely right about A & C ….  thought after posting :-)

F
Userlevel 1

The Money Grab

It was clear when “you could not” add a mono feature to the connect amp. Then, “BAM” here is the new latest and greatest connect amp with mono. Give us more money. 
If you would not have screwed with the old stuff, the existing customers would have kept doing what we always do, give you free advertisement. We would continue to brag about our systems and talk highly about Sonos. The amazing sounding system that has always done right. Worked hard to not compromise  sound quality for stock prices, because they don’t have stocks. “Go buy Sonos equipment stop wasting your time and effort with all the rest of that stuff”. 
But then there is the money grab. 
Now what do you think we will tell our friends and neighbors?

Go buy a Sonos?

Probably not. I was about to buy 3 new items. Now I’m on the fence about buying any. 
so what am I suppose to tell my friends and neighbors? “I would think twice about buying any Sonos equipment at this time”

And I hate to have to tell people that. But I have to be honest with them. I’m proud of my equipment as is (I feel) every Sonos owner, but as of the moment not feeling to secure about the future of our systems at the hands of the company that builds them.

I work for a company that teaches their employee's that you represent the company and your friends and family put more faith and stock in what you as a person communicate to them than what the read on the internet or the news. 

We, the happy Sonos  customer are your voice and selling team, but you just made a lot of your “sellers” not to willing to vouch for you.

Thanks for the excellent sounding equipment,

A neighbor who what’s to convince people to buy Sonos equipment.

 

 
 

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

The Money Grab

It was clear when “you could not” add a mono feature to the connect amp. Then, “BAM” here is the new latest and greatest connect amp with mono. Give us more money. 
If you would not have screwed with the old stuff, the existing customers would have kept doing what we always do, give you free advertisement. We would continue to brag about our systems and talk highly about Sonos. The amazing sounding system that has always done right. Worked hard to not compromise  sound quality for stock prices, because they don’t have stocks. “Go buy Sonos equipment stop wasting your time and effort with all the rest of that stuff”. 
But then there is the money grab. 
Now what do you think we will tell our friends and neighbors?

Go buy a Sonos?

Probably not. I was about to buy 3 new items. Now I’m on the fence about buying any. 
so what am I suppose to tell my friends and neighbors? “I would think twice about buying any Sonos equipment at this time”

And I hate to have to tell people that. But I have to be honest with them. I’m proud of my equipment as is (I feel) every Sonos owner, but as of the moment not feeling to secure about the future of our systems at the hands of the company that builds them.

I work for a company that teaches their employee's that you represent the company and your friends and family put more faith and stock in what you as a person communicate to them than what the read on the internet or the news. 

We, the happy Sonos  customer are your voice and selling team, but you just made a lot of your “sellers” not to willing to vouch for you.

Thanks for the excellent sounding equipment,

A neighbor who what’s to convince people to buy Sonos equipment.

 

 
 

 

Very hard to argue with any of that. The referred sale is a powerful force.

C

I own three Connect|Amps and two Connect. I also own some Ones and a newer style black AMP. I was about to purchase a Move and another Amp but am now reconsidering. All the connects were purchased and registered together in July of 2017. The three Amps and one of the two connects are now listed in my account as Legacy and one connect is listed as “modern”. Am I to understand that these devices, registered just over two years ago are now to be rendered incompatible with future updates and current models? If these were 10 year old devices then I’d understand, but they are not, and I’m devastated and dismayed. 
 

Come on Sonos. This is a terrible decision, short sighted and will lead to the demise of your ecosystem. Reconsider. 

J

@Chris Bee . May I ask where you bought devices in July 2017 that are now classed as legacy?

C

Amazon

Smilja

Amazon

 

On Amazon Marketplace or whatever the third-party sellers platform is named in USA and GB resp.?

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
C

I can’t recall whether it was Amazon or a third-party seller, but I do see in my Sonos account that the devices were registered in 07/2017.  What’s the relevance of the question?

I understand that code isn’t “free” and I’d be quite willing to pay a modest software update fee every once in a while to keep the programmers employed creating updates when a new iOS, API from streaming service, etc requires they spend money on updating the code.

 

J

The relevance of the question is that independent authorised Sonos retailers are not permitted to sell on third party websites such as Amazon and you were probably sold old stock, manufactured pre-2015, by an unauthorised seller . Nothing manufactured in 2017 would now be 'legacy'.

I am not trying to suggest that that is any comfort to you, just explaining how it has probably come about.

S
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

I can’t recall whether it was Amazon or a third-party seller, but I do see in my Sonos account that the devices were registered in 07/2017. 

 

It’s also worth noting that relying on the registration date listed in the Sonos account is not always an accurate reflection of purchase date.

All of my Sonos products are listed in the Sonos account page as having been registered in 10/2017. However, my email receipts show I purchased a number of them in 2013. So I wouldn’t rely on just the Sonos account registration date on the Sonos site.

K
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

And yet few comments on the terrible environmental impact of Sonos’ decision to purposely brick working electronic devices (1st controllers then so called “legacy” audio equipment).  The whole Trade-Up program smells of hypocrisy (with the CEO’s commitment to keep products working at a recent US congressional hearing) and green-washing (see Sonos’ sustainability page).  

They hide behind “we don’t want new users to have a poor initial experience with older products” when it’s clear there were other ways to move these still useful audio devices into user’s hands and not dumpsites/e-waste cycles.  Habitat for Humanity comes to mind as well as others. 

See also Scientific America’s recent article about tech waste:  https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/tech-waste-is-a-danger-to-us-all/

Crickets from Sonos’ sustainability executive nor Mr. Spence regarding the impact of their choices of bonuses over planet earth. 

Great products, great US support team, very questionable management decisions. 

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

Had a friend ask me if he should buy a Sonos system for his new house.

I told him to wait until May when Sonos reveal the precise details for how this all pans out, but he looked up the drama and it has turned him right off.

Ken_Griffiths

Had a friend ask me if he should buy a Sonos system for his new house.

I told him to wait until May when Sonos reveal the precise details for how this all pans out, but he looked up the drama and it has turned him right off.

This is interesting…

Considering you initially referred to Sonos in a derogatory way in your first post here not so long back, saying “I won’t negotiate with terrorists”. I can see why your friend would be put off buying.

However as you told your friend to wait and see what happens in May, that seems to somewhat infer that your views are changing and thst you are perhaps now willing to negotiate after all, otherwise why wait and why hang about here?

User694694
Userlevel 5
Badge +4

Had a friend ask me if he should buy a Sonos system for his new house.

I told him to wait until May when Sonos reveal the precise details for how this all pans out, but he looked up the drama and it has turned him right off.

This is interesting…

Considering you initially referred to Sonos in a derogatory way in your first post here not so long back, saying “I won’t negotiate with terrorists”. I can see why your friend would be put off buying.

However as you told your friend to wait and see what happens in May, that seems to somewhat infer that your views are changing and thst you are perhaps now willing to negotiate after all, otherwise why wait and why hang about here?

Perhaps not everyone’s opinions are as zealous, fanatical and unmovable?

G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Had a friend ask me if he should buy a Sonos system for his new house.

I told him to wait until May when Sonos reveal the precise details for how this all pans out, but he looked up the drama and it has turned him right off.

This is interesting…

Considering you initially referred to Sonos in a derogatory way in your first post here not so long back, saying “I won’t negotiate with terrorists”. I can see why your friend would be put off buying.

However as you told your friend to wait and see what happens in May, that seems to somewhat infer that your views are changing and thst you are perhaps now willing to negotiate after all, otherwise why wait and why hang about here?

 

 

Not again - this trawling through old posts to drag up something you then post about someone is so unhelpful and unproductive - it does nothing to move the conversation forward.

The simple facts are that different people have different opinions and different ways of expressing them

There is nothing wrong with someone having a different opinion to you.

As I have said to you before its “best to play the ball and not the man”, having a dig at someone is unlikely to help you get your argument over better or to move them toward your point of view.

T
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

Three observations:

  1. Over the weekend I took my network down to install a rack system.  Before installation, I had two older Sonos Ones that were not listed as part of my system.  Brought network back up and those two older Sonos Ones are now listed as part of my System, both being listed as Modern products, apparently not Trade-In eligible. I was worried about whether those two older Sonos Ones would work or be obsoleted, but now they are reported as Modern product. I was happily surprised. Reason this occurred is unknown to me.
  2. After several rounds of tangling with Sonos Support.  I was able to Trade-Up an old unused Bridge for a 30% discount on a new Port.  Initially offered only a new Boost, I was a stinker requesting the new discounted Port for the old Bridge. (I thought and argued 30% discount offer was for ANY Sonos component….not so sure now....) It struck me that an exception was made in my situation, but I again was happily surprised with outcome.  Arguably this was good-faith on the part of the Sonos mothership - it was the “right” thing for them to do downwind of controversy.
  3. Sitting tight on remainder of Sonos changes until May dust settles. Meanwhile exploring Amazon Echo options including MyMedia skill (needs always-on server) for NAS music.
J

Three observations:

  1. Over the weekend I took my network down to install a rack system.  Before installation, I had two older Sonos Ones that were not listed as part of my system.  Brought network back up and those two older Sonos Ones are now listed as part of my System, both being listed as Modern products, apparently not Trade-In eligible. I was worried about whether those two older Sonos Ones would work or be obsoleted, but now they are reported as Modern product. I was happily surprised. Reason this occurred is

Not sure why the surprise.  It has been absolutely clear all along that no Sonos Ones are ‘legacy’.  Nor are any Play:1s, which is what I suspect you mean.

Also, even if you had had ‘legacy’ products, they would have continued to work and would not have been ‘obsoleted’.

G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Three observations:

  1. Over the weekend I took my network down to install a rack system.  Before installation, I had two older Sonos Ones that were not listed as part of my system.  Brought network back up and those two older Sonos Ones are now listed as part of my System, both being listed as Modern products, apparently not Trade-In eligible. I was worried about whether those two older Sonos Ones would work or be obsoleted, but now they are reported as Modern product. I was happily surprised. Reason this occurred is

Not sure why the surprise.  It has been absolutely clear all along that no Sonos Ones are ‘legacy’.  Nor are any Play:1s, which is what I suspect you mean.

Also, even if you had had ‘legacy’ products, they would have continued to work and would not have been ‘obsoleted’.

 

 

Lets look at the dictionary definition of the word “obsolete”  shall we…..

 

obsolete

/ˈɒbsəliːt/

adjective

  1. 1.

    no longer produced or used; out of date.

    "the disposal of old and obsolete machinery"

    Similar:

    out of date

    old

    defunct

verb

US

  1. cause (a product or idea) to become obsolete by replacing it with something new.

    "we're trying to stimulate the business by obsoleting last year's designs"

J

I rest my case, thanks for your support.

Also @train_nerd wrote ‘I was worried about whether those two older Sonos Ones would work or be obsoleted’.

Therefore, he was equating ‘obsolete’ with ‘not working’.  (Note that I referenced his use of the term by using quote marks.)

G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

I rest my case, thanks for your support.

Also @train_nerd wrote ‘I was worried about whether those two older Sonos Ones would work or be obsoleted’.

Therefore, he was equating ‘obsolete’ with ‘not working’.

 

 

You are funny, now you are redefining the meaning of words away from what is specified in the dictionary to your own definitions to suit your own purposes. I mean its laughable.

 

Perhaps I should redefine the word square to equate to triangle - I mean that’s how it works isn’t it?

 

Still at least you are making me smile, which is nice :)

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