End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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O
Userlevel 2
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@Obsoleted, do you actually own any Sonos gear? In other words – are you actually a Sonos customer?

 @Smilja 

Sure do. Are we asking for proof? See attached screengrab Also not shown another connect Amp  (obsoleted) and a new amp.

 

G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

@Obsoleted, do you actually own any Sonos gear? In other words – are you actually a Sonos customer?

Sure do. Are we asking for proof? See attached screengrab Also not shown another connect Amp  (obsoleted) and a new amp.

 

Why on earth are you being asked to prove you are a Sonos customer - the world has gone mad!!

O
Userlevel 2
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They are upset I am complaining. I've been called a troll and asked for my bonafides

G
Userlevel 6
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They are upset I am complaining. I've been called a troll and asked for my bona fide

 

Bizarre 

Ken_Griffiths

@Obsoleted, do you actually own any Sonos gear? In other words – are you actually a Sonos customer?

 @Smilja 

Sure do. Are we asking for proof? See attached screengrab Also not shown another connect Amp  (obsoleted) and a new amp.

My Sonos profile is similar too, in some respects, I have quite a few products and five legacy ones to deal with... I was going to say ‘to deal with come May 2020’ ...but even that would not be true, as I can make any decisions well after the date of any formal 'Sonos Announcement'. There’s no real rush to decide anything according to the actual text they have published so far. The legacy devices will apparently still keep on working as they do now for the foreseeable future … that could still easily be many years still to come, I think, but we will have to wait and see.

Although as mentioned earlier, I don’t like to standstill with technology and so I personally plan to do a mix of trade-up and give some of my devices to the family, to add to their mainly legacy systems. Still there is no rush to really do anything at this stage, nor in May ...and the choice to obsolete the two traded-up products, to get the discount vouchers, will be my own decision. I remain quietly confident that the devices handed to the family will continue working too, just as they do now for quite a few years still to come and only time will tell if that is the case and so I will just wait patiently and see.

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S
Userlevel 1

Just a quick thought. Now Sonos has offered 30% off new hardware then upon receipt the old speakers will be instructed by Sonos to stop working, can anyone trust buying from eBay or other second hand retailers? If I was to buy a speaker or Amp etc that has been used as part of the 30% discount scheme I could buy one inadvertently and be left with a brick after delivery. 
 Just saying! 
Again Sonos has left their brand open to abuse.

Ken_Griffiths

Just a quick thought. Now Sonos has offered 30% off new hardware then upon receipt the old speakers will be instructed by Sonos to stop working, can anyone trust buying from eBay or other second hand retailers? If I was to buy a speaker or Amp etc that has been used as part of the 30% discount scheme I could buy one inadvertently and be left with a brick after delivery. 
 Just saying! 
Again Sonos has left their brand open to abuse.

If they advertise the Sonos item as 'deactivated' and for spare parts, I guess that all the seller will have done in that situation is 'perhaps' breached their trade-up agreement with Sonos, which requests they 'responsibly recycle' the product. If they sell the item as 'working’ and knowingly know that to be false, then you may have, at one end of the scale, a false representation for action by civil redress, (refund/civil court action here in the U.K.) or in some cases, it could turn out to be a crime of ‘obtaining money by deception’, which could lead to police investigation in some cases, perhaps? ...However you can’t put the blame here on Sonos, as it would be entirely the sellers responsibility for their own actions.

Of course a similar situation could apply to such a Sonos speaker/device with say a known hardware fault, that was not disclosed to the buyer too.

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

Just a quick thought. Now Sonos has offered 30% off new hardware then upon receipt the old speakers will be instructed by Sonos to stop working, can anyone trust buying from eBay or other second hand retailers? If I was to buy a speaker or Amp etc that has been used as part of the 30% discount scheme I could buy one inadvertently and be left with a brick after delivery. 
 Just saying! 
Again Sonos has left their brand open to abuse.

 

On my country’s most popular second hand/used goods sales website, there has been a lot of new adverts for sonos equipment.

 

I have seen several write in the ad “This device has NOT been deactivated as part of the trade in”.

 

But still, they are asking silly money for what is essentially soon a legacy product, but i guess since there are so many sellers and probably not a lot of buyers, the prices will go down soon.

R
Userlevel 2
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Naturally, we must go forward, but it has to be done in the right way. Sonos has created all of this confusion by not having a plan to announce to its customers. Now we have to wait weeks or months for clarity. That’s not good business practice as it stops most from buying more Sonos. Even on social media when Sonos release a tweet or instagram post, the negative response is not going to help them replace the pause in purchases by its current customer base.

Sonos have the data and my guess most are streaming music, listening to radio and NAS media servers. So just provide a box to allow these services to continue. A box that can be updated with the latest firmware etc. Many would buy it imho. 
 

As someone mentioned earlier, have a discount to upgrade based on how many units and years you have been a customer. The longer you’ve been a customer, the higher the discount. 
 

The issue isn’t technology progressing. It’s the haphazard way Sonos has communicated this with no plan and seemingly not thinking about their very loyal customers who have been their best brand ambassadors. It’s not rocket science. 

Again I agree with some of the viewpoints mentioned here, but just as an example, someone who trades-up say a single play 5 (gen1) against one of the more expensive Sonos ‘speaker-sets' can save ‘almost’ $500 discount off that purchase and that seems to be rather a good saving to help ‘float the boat’ a little. I personally like the fact all customers are treated equally, both new and old, however that’s just a personal thing.

But if all you want to do is replace your legacy devices, the 30% does almost nothing.  You will be paying very close to the amount you paid when your devices was new ( thanks to the recent price increase).  If I want to replace my connect amp and my play 5, it will cost $800 with the 30% discount.  I could replace my whole system with echos for what it would cost for those two pieces.  

 

S
Userlevel 3
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Also on that popular auction site there are quite a few punters now trying to flog deactivated / retired kit, along the lines of’faulty, for parts only’ hidden away in small print’ at the bottom of the description. 

So they taken the discount, deactivated the product (usually a Play 5 Gen 1) and then trying to pass it off to some unsuspecting punter.

 

Check the small print folks!

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Also on that popular auction site there are quite a few punters now trying to flog deactivated / retired kit, along the lines of’faulty, for parts only’ hidden away in small print’ at the bottom of the description. 

So they taken the discount, deactivated the product (usually a Play 5 Gen 1) and then trying to pass it off to some unsuspecting punter.

 

Check the small print folks!

SONOS - Buyer Beware 

W
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

My Sonos profile is similar too, in some respects, I have quite a few products and five legacy ones to deal with... I was going to say ‘to deal with come May 2020’ ...but even that would not be true, as I can make any decisions well after the date of any formal 'Sonos Announcement'. There’s no real rush to decide anything according to the actual text they have published so far. The legacy devices will apparently still keep on working as they do now for the foreseeable future … that could still easily be many years still to come, I think, but we will have to wait and see.

Although as mentioned earlier, I don’t like to standstill with technology and so I personally plan to do a mix of trade-up and give some of my devices to the family, to add to their mainly legacy systems. Still there is no rush to really do anything at this stage, nor in May ...and the choice to obsolete the two traded-up products, to get the discount vouchers, will be my own decision. I remain quietly confident that the devices handed to the family will continue working too, just as they do now for quite a few years still to come and only time will tell if that is the case and so I will just wait patiently and see.

 

Your chilled out approach is fine, but even though I have ZERO legacy products currently this whole thing has been a wake-up call to reevaluate my whole house music strategy when it comes time for replacements or upgrades. Given that someone who isn’t even affected by the legacy issue (yet) has decided to halt Sonos purchases and look elsewhere, it would worry me as a seller of, comparably, high-end goods. Logic is telling me that I should buy high quality dumb speakers and feed them with “disposable” gadgets - building cheap, smart parts into an expensive speaker doesn’t make any sense to me now - I didn't see that before because I didn’t need to - it wasn’t an issue, Sonos always just worked. Now I see the issue, I’ll look for a better, more sustainable solution.

 

On the “at least 5 years and historically longer” thing - what I read there is that I can only absolutely count on 5 years. Yes the wishy-washy addendum hints at much better longevity, but it’s a totally toothless “promise”… the bottom line is that in 5 years my new product MAY be dead. Coming from the hifi side, where my main speakers are 30 years old, it’s simply not good enough. And yes, I feed those speakers with a Connect, but I can easily feed them with much cheaper components, with no loss in quality.

 

Ken_Griffiths

WSu,

I did say it is each to their own, I don’t see Sonos just as a dumb speaker, but as a fully computerised system that is a multi-room wireless audio system for Music/TV/Podcasts/Audiobooks etc. and it’s also integrates well within my smart-home with links to voice control, lighting, security etc.

I appreciate 5 years is often now mentioned in the community, but it is actually 5 years after Sonos stop selling the product, plus all that appears to mean is no more updates and/or customer care support. Not that the devices will suddenly stop working.

I actually expect a good many other manufacturers devices to end their lives within my smart-home setup before my Sonos products end their lives and I have little doubt in the next few years I may have to update my mobiles, iPads and Android tablets, but I do my best try to plan and save for such upgrades and replacement devices, other than sudden hardware failures which can happen to any device I guess.

i think it’s perhaps a little unfair to compare Sonos devices to passive speakers as those things have far less issues that can go wrong but just to add I have such passive speakers and amp, but I still prefer to use my Sonos system here at home.  

 

W
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

No, it isn’t a dumb speaker - it’s a dumb speaker with amplification and a smart “dongle” built in. What has changed my view is that I should be able to count on hifi longevity for the 2 most expensive parts of that trinity. The smart part is very cheap, in comparison, as we’ve seen from all the streaming devices that abound these days. It now makes no sense to me to cripple, from the very beginning, the bulk of the unit with something I could easily replace in a different setup. I also balk at the outright waste that the fully integrated solution entails. I admit that I haven’t looked into alternatives yet, because I don’t need to, but I imagine that the other solutions integrate well into home automation too - I have lightwaverf, hive, smartlife, arlo, and a wifi hot tub - and they all play nicely even if I have to “resort” to using IFTTT. 

As an aside I find that Sonos doesn’t integrate well into voice control! I have Google Nest hubs and I always have to append “on Sonos Play 5” (or whatever) to any request because the Sonos/Google don’t work well enough together to default the music to a Sonos in the same room as the hub. Not saying it’s a Sonos issue, it may be Google/both - but it's an annoyance that means I don’t use voice much.

And with respect to the 5 year thing, I was pretty clear with my capitalised “MAY” that I was not saying they last 5 years, but that is all you can absolutely count on.

Ken_Griffiths

WSu, 

Well I guess that’s fair enough. It’s always going to be your choice after all. I can only say ‘yes of course’ choose your own route for your home audio, particularly if having separate “passive speakers, amp and smart-home” components is now your preference. 

I will just stick to my easy to setup and use ‘all-in-one' Sonos solution.👍

melvimbe

No, it isn’t a dumb speaker - it’s a dumb speaker with amplification and a smart “dongle” built in. What has changed my view is that I should be able to count on hifi longevity for the 2 most expensive parts of that trinity. The smart part is very cheap, in comparison, as we’ve seen from all the streaming devices that abound these days.

 

 

Separate components (speaker, amp, and smarts) is a sold strategy in my opinion.  My only comment is that I don’t think you can qualify the smart part as exactly cheap.  I say this because Amazon and Google have come out with cheap smart speakers that they sell for very little if any profit juts to get you in the ecosystem.  Other companies that don’t have big tech status can’t easily replicate that, unless they sell hardware with fully Amazon or Google software in it.  It’s also worth pointing out that such cheap devices have more limited streaming and multi room capabilities, which might be just fine depending on your needs.

 

It now makes no sense to me to cripple, from the very beginning, the bulk of the unit with something I could easily replace in a different setup.

 

 

Depending on what features you need, yes you can replace with a different setup.

 

 

I also balk at the outright waste that the fully integrated solution entails. I admit that I haven’t looked into alternatives yet, because I don’t need to, but I imagine that the other solutions integrate well into home automation too - I have lightwaverf, hive, smartlife, arlo, and a wifi hot tub - and they all play nicely even if I have to “resort” to using IFTTT. 

As an aside I find that Sonos doesn’t integrate well into voice control! I have Google Nest hubs and I always have to append “on Sonos Play 5” (or whatever) to any request because the Sonos/Google don’t work well enough together to default the music to a Sonos in the same room as the hub. Not saying it’s a Sonos issue, it may be Google/both - but it's an annoyance that means I don’t use voice much.

 

 

That’s something that was an issue on the Alexa side until Amazon created Alexa groups and fixed the issue.  Perhaps that will change on the Google side, perhaps not.  Besides being already used to Alexa, that missing feature also kept me from switching over to Google.

 

And with respect to the 5 year thing, I was pretty clear with my capitalised “MAY” that I was not saying they last 5 years, but that is all you can absolutely count on.

 

Danny
J
Userlevel 5
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I need to ask a question about a particular scenario and I don’t want to have to read through thousands of posts to see if it’s already been answered so apologies if it has :)

I’ve traded up one of my products and this means that I can turn off all my ‘ End of software updates’ products at any time.

But what happens if I have them all off and when the cut-off date arrives and I get the latest software, does this mean that I won’t be able to turn the old products back on again in order to do a trade-up? I probably won’t decide on trading the others up at the moment as I have to sort finances out but I may be looking to do so later.

 

J

Why not just keep everything going as a legacy system in May? It isn't a 'one off forever' decision. Only upgrade if and when something vital to you stops working or a must have feature comes along,  That might be one month or five years or  whatever.

Why would you turn your other speakers off?

melvimbe

I need to ask a question about a particular scenario and I don’t want to have to read through thousands of posts to see if it’s already been answered so apologies if it has :)

I’ve traded up one of my products and this means that I can turn off all my ‘ End of software updates’ products at any time.

 

 

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here.  You traded up one of your products.  Do you have any other legacy products, that are also eligible for trade up?  

 

But what happens if I have them all off and when the cut-off date arrives and I get the latest software, does this mean that I won’t be able to turn the old products back on again in order to do a trade-up?

 

 

So you do have additional legacy products?  If you, I would make sure they are plugged in and up to date.   Your system won’t update  beyond the legacy version if you have legacy products in your system.  It is still unknown though if legacy products registered to you will also block updates.

 

As far as the trade up program goes. the products do need to be on and in your system in order to complete the trade in process.  If you have them and just aren’t using them anymore, I would either keep them plugged in out of the way or just go ahead and do the trade in.  You don’t have to buy a replacement product within any time frame after trade in.

 

 

I probably won’t decide on trading the others up at the moment as I have to sort finances out but I may be looking to do so later.

 

 

Danny
J
Userlevel 5
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Yes I still have 2x ZP90s and 1x ZP120 that I haven’t traded yet.

 

J

But what is it you are trying to achieve? What problem are you trying to solve?  Why not just use your whole system post-May for a while, until such time as you really need to do anything, which might be years away? Why have you upgraded one device?

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

here is apples clearly defined policy on their product support - 5-7years after last sold  'vintage' - 7+ years 'obsolete' they also tell you how much 'memory' each product has so you can make an informed purchase decision.

 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624

 

i have a mid 2010 macpro which i still use today with no issues.

 

but i know i cant do airdrop or ask siri how to boil a cabbage - modern features i can live without.

J

Yes but you don't need your current iPhone to work cooperatively and in sync with your previous three iPhones, do you?

R
Userlevel 2
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@MIBUK, it would take years to develop and test such a “box”. It’s not coming.


They could do this very quickly for the Connect”amp and the play5.    All they need to do is take the electronic guts from a current play1 and put it into a small package like an echo dot with line out.  It does not even need speakers.  This would keep those two legacy devices going for years.  If they sold it at a very low margin, they could even win back some of the people who have said “never buying Sonos again.”  

D
Userlevel 7
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But what is it you are trying to achieve? What problem are you trying to solve?  Why not just use your whole system post-May for a while, until such time as you really need to do anything, which might be years away? Why have you upgraded one device?

Have you seen any guarantee from Sonos, that they are going to keep honoring the 30% upgrade discount ?

 

Can i be sure that if i wait until May, that i will get that discount….And what about if i wait until something “breaks” for legacy devices...For example if Spotify changes something ?

Am i guaranteed that i can trade it in at that time.

 

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