End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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R
Userlevel 1

for over 12 years I have been a dedicated Sonos dealer. They screwed us on so many levels now it’s hard to imagine them being truthful and have good intentions. First, they circumvented their distribution network by going to BestBuy. Next, they fired all the representatives that were with the company for 10 years or so. Now they are cutting support to those products that they deem too old.

I remember when updates were to fix problems in the software and were done frugally now they seem to come out every other month. You know damn well how this is going to play out. Your phone is going to force you to update. With the new firmware, the old Sonos app will no longer work you will then be instructed to update the app which will then no longer be supported by your legacy equipment.

I hope the coding community will make patch files that will allow this equipment to still exists, even if we have to use a dedicated controller like a jailbroken ipad or android tabletl

Sonos you have pissed off the masses now

 

melvimbe

for over 12 years I have been a dedicated Sonos dealer. They screwed us on so many levels now it’s hard to imagine them being truthful and have good intentions. First, they circumvented their distribution network by going to BestBuy.

 

 

It seems to be that opening up sales to Best Buy and other retail markets was necessary in order to reach consumers.  Seems like they would be limiting thier market, and pointing them at a disadvantage with competitors, if they did not.

 

 

Next, they fired all the representatives that were with the company for 10 years or so.

 

 

Are you referring to the layoffs Sonos had a few years back?

 

 

Now they are cutting support to those products that they deem too old.

I remember when updates were to fix problems in the software and were done frugally now they seem to come out every other month. You know damn well how this is going to play out. Your phone is going to force you to update. With the new firmware, the old Sonos app will no longer work you will then be instructed to update the app which will then no longer be supported by your legacy equipment.

 

 

Highly doubt the above will happen.  I expect that they controller apps will be designed to work with legacy and modern systems or they will produce two version of the app. Sonos has not offered specifics for this situation though, so we will wait and see.


I hope the coding community will make patch files that will allow this equipment to still exists, even if we have to use a dedicated controller like a jailbroken ipad or android tabletl

 

 

The equipment isn’t going to cease  to exist.  Sonos is supporting a legacy system of Sonos, so there really isn’t a need for any other 3rd party version of software at this point.    I’m not a legal expert, but I imagine any jailbroke version of Sonos would need to tread very carefully to avoid Sonos patents.

 

 

 

 

Danny
J
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

Maybe someone has already thought of this, but here is what I think Sonos should do that I think most people could live with.  They should design a Boost-like device that houses all of the advanced processing required for the new features that supposedly are beyond the capability of the old devices.  That would be able to be grouped as a current generation device and allow for all of the advanced features.  It would then connect to all of the deprecated old generation devices as sort of a sub network.

  

This would allow for old and new devices to be in the same group with advanced functionality.  I’m no technician, but there has to be a way to do something like this if they really wanted to.

J

Maybe someone has already thought of this, but here is what I think Sonos should do that I think most people could live with.  They should design a Boost-like device that houses all of the advanced processing required for the new features that supposedly are beyond the capability of the old devices.  That would be able to be grouped as a current generation device and allow for all of the advanced features.  It would then connect to all of the deprecated old generation devices as sort of a sub network.

  

This would allow for old and new devices to be in the same group with advanced functionality.  I’m no technician, but there has to be a way to do something like this if they really wanted to.

Why does there have to be?  How much do you or I or anybody else posting on here really understand about how Sonos does all that it does?  1%? 2%?  

In what sense would this be a ‘Boost-like device’?  As in a something box-shaped with buttons on the outside and electronics inside it?

J
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

Maybe someone has already thought of this, but here is what I think Sonos should do that I think most people could live with.  They should design a Boost-like device that houses all of the advanced processing required for the new features that supposedly are beyond the capability of the old devices.  That would be able to be grouped as a current generation device and allow for all of the advanced features.  It would then connect to all of the deprecated old generation devices as sort of a sub network.

  

This would allow for old and new devices to be in the same group with advanced functionality.  I’m no technician, but there has to be a way to do something like this if they really wanted to.

Why does there have to be?  How much do you or I or anybody else posting on here really understand about how Sonos does all that it does?  1%? 2%?  

In what sense would this be a ‘Boost-like device’?  As in a something box-shaped with buttons on the outside and electronics inside it?

 

Because really smart people (including those at Sonos) have accomplished a lot more challenging things than this.  Of course, it’s a matter of how much someone is willing to invest like anything else.  And by “Boost-like device”, I mean one with creates a type of mesh network just like the Boost, but for the specific purpose of connecting old generation devices.  

melvimbe

Because really smart people (including those at Sonos) have accomplished a lot more challenging things than this.  Of course, it’s a matter of how much someone is willing to invest like anything else.  And by “Boost-like device”, I mean one with creates a type of mesh network just like the Boost, but for the specific purpose of connecting old generation devices.  

 

The ‘magic box’ solution has been mentioned a few times.  I tend to think that it’s hard to say that such a box is physically possible without knowing exactly how the Sonos system works...in detail.  What most are doing is making logical assumptions about how all this works, which may or may not be true.  Regardless of that, you still have to consider that such a device would have a rather small market, since it would only be useful to people with legacy devices, and only a subset of those people would buy it.  That would drive up the price of such a device just for Sonos to break even I imagine or take an acceptable loss.  Sonos is already taking a loss in a way with the trade in program.  

 

I tend to believe that Sonos has spent a lot more time on this probably that the rest of us have, and if there was such a solution that made sense, we’d be hearing about it. Yes, really smart people can accomplish great things, but it’s not just a limit of technical know how, but what can be done and still be a viable business.

Danny
J

Maybe someone has already thought of this, but here is what I think Sonos should do that I think most people could live with.  They should design a Boost-like device that houses all of the advanced processing required for the new features that supposedly are beyond the capability of the old devices.  That would be able to be grouped as a current generation device and allow for all of the advanced features.  It would then connect to all of the deprecated old generation devices as sort of a sub network.

  

This would allow for old and new devices to be in the same group with advanced functionality.  I’m no technician, but there has to be a way to do something like this if they really wanted to.

Why does there have to be?  How much do you or I or anybody else posting on here really understand about how Sonos does all that it does?  1%? 2%?  

In what sense would this be a ‘Boost-like device’?  As in a something box-shaped with buttons on the outside and electronics inside it?

 

Because really smart people (including those at Sonos) have accomplished a lot more challenging things than this.  Of course, it’s a matter of how much someone is willing to invest like anything else.  And by “Boost-like device”, I mean one with creates a type of mesh network just like the Boost, but for the specific purpose of connecting old generation devices.  

A device that could connect legacy devices like a Boost does would be.. a Boost.  The networking isn’t the issue, that is just about how data gets shifted around.  Every Sonos speaker / player has the Boost capability built into it.  This isn’t even coming close to the issues (based on my 2% understanding of how Sonos works).

G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Maybe someone has already thought of this, but here is what I think Sonos should do that I think most people could live with.  They should design a Boost-like device that houses all of the advanced processing required for the new features that supposedly are beyond the capability of the old devices.  That would be able to be grouped as a current generation device and allow for all of the advanced features.  It would then connect to all of the deprecated old generation devices as sort of a sub network.

  

This would allow for old and new devices to be in the same group with advanced functionality.  I’m no technician, but there has to be a way to do something like this if they really wanted to.

Why does there have to be?  How much do you or I or anybody else posting on here really understand about how Sonos does all that it does?  1%? 2%?  

In what sense would this be a ‘Boost-like device’?  As in a something box-shaped with buttons on the outside and electronics inside it?

 

Because really smart people (including those at Sonos) have accomplished a lot more challenging things than this.  Of course, it’s a matter of how much someone is willing to invest like anything else.  And by “Boost-like device”, I mean one with creates a type of mesh network just like the Boost, but for the specific purpose of connecting old generation devices.  

 

I think we all know deep down that such a solution would be possible.

Holding a rational position together with a can do attitude that yes things can be developed, designed and built if there is the desire and will to do so, is not a position some are willing to accept as valid, which is sad, and I’ve been called biased, one sided, told I have difficulty understanding “things are round here”, and surprisingly had my previous posts picked through and selectively quoted to try to prove it - all rather unproductive behaviour.

For some there will always be a reason why something is impossible, or perhaps they will suggest that you don’t know enough about the subject in question to offer a valid opinion (often at the same time proffering theirs), or suggesting that your views are biased or whatever because they conflict with theirs.

J

FWIW, the Boost doesn’t really ‘create a mesh network’.  Every Sonos device contains within it the hardware and software to communicate with other Sonos devices over SonosNet, Sonos’ proprietary wireless mesh networking technology. 

In order for the data also to flow to and from devices not on SonosNet - specifically controllers connected to WiFi - one Sonos device has to be wired to the network in order to ‘bridge’ the SonosNet and WiFi segments of the LAN.

The only reason for the existence of the Boost (and its predecessor, the more aptly-named Bridge) is to allow the wired connection to be made when there is no need for a speaker where the router is located.  So the notion that the Boost is a specialised device that creates a mesh network is entirely false.  The Sonos devices collectively form the SonosNet mesh, triggered by any one of them having a wired connection to the router.

And also, FWIW, this illustrates the tightly integrated, co-operative nature of the way Sonos functions.

G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

FWIW, the Boost doesn’t really ‘create a mesh network’.  Every Sonos device contains within it the hardware and software to communicate with other Sonos devices over SonosNet, Sonos’ proprietary wireless mesh networking technology. 

In order for the data also to flow to and from devices not on SonosNet - specifically controllers connected to WiFi - one Sonos device has to be wired to the network in order to ‘bridge’ the SonosNet and WiFi segments of the LAN.

The only reason for the existence of the Boost (and its predecessor, the more aptly-named Bridge) is to allow the wired connection to be made when there is no need for a speaker where the router is located.  So the notion that the Boost is a specialised device that creates a mesh network is entirely false.  The Sonos devices collectively form the SonosNet mesh, triggered by any one of them having a wired connection to the router.

 

Yes you’re right this person used to the wrong terminology \ words, but I think we also know what they were getting at and trying to explain from their post.

J

None of us knows for sure what is and isn’t possible.  Which is why my objection is to people saying it MUST be possible. Particularly when they go on to demonstrate that they understand even less about how Sonos works than I do.

To me it seems entirely plausible that the only practical way for the interactions between Sonos devices to take place is for them to be capable in themselves of doing so - or at least that this is so tightly woven into Sonos’ design that that is required.  Note I say ‘plausible’ not ‘certain’.  I also find it implausible that Sonos haven’t thought about whether there is any other solution, and they are infinitely better placed to make that judgement than any of us.

So I find the idea of some sort of magic box hugely IMPLAUSIBLE.  Throw enough money and time at a problem and you can solve almost anything.  That doesn’t make it a sensible thing to attempt and I suspect many on here are hugely underestimating what would be required.  I do not claim to know that for certain.

melvimbe

I think we all know deep down that such a solution would be possible.

Holding a rational position together with a can do attitude that yes things can be developed, designed and built if there is the desire and will to do so, is not a position some are willing to accept as valid, which is sad, and I’ve been called biased, one sided, told I have difficulty understanding “things are round here”, and surprisingly had my previous posts picked through and selectively quoted to try to prove it - all rather unproductive behaviour.

 

 

Why do you see this as a material of desire and will to create develop this box, rather than an practical analysis of effort the develop, test, and manufacture for such a box to small and ever decreasing market?  

 

For some there will always be a reason why something is impossible, or perhaps they will suggest that you don’t know enough about the subject in question to offer a valid opinion (often at the same time proffering theirs), or suggesting that your views are biased or whatever because they conflict with theirs.

 

I’m not saying that opinions aren’t valid, I just think that any suggestion that Sonos make device X or Y has to take into consideration the cost to produce the device and the size of the target market...essentially what it does for the company.  

 

 

Danny
G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

I think we all know deep down that such a solution would be possible.

Holding a rational position together with a can do attitude that yes things can be developed, designed and built if there is the desire and will to do so, is not a position some are willing to accept as valid, which is sad, and I’ve been called biased, one sided, told I have difficulty understanding “things are round here”, and surprisingly had my previous posts picked through and selectively quoted to try to prove it - all rather unproductive behaviour.

 

 

Why do you see this as a material of desire and will to create develop this box, rather than an practical analysis of effort the develop, test, and manufacture for such a box to small and ever decreasing market?  

I haven’t dismissed this, no where have I said these things don’t matter - they do

 

For some there will always be a reason why something is impossible, or perhaps they will suggest that you don’t know enough about the subject in question to offer a valid opinion (often at the same time proffering theirs), or suggesting that your views are biased or whatever because they conflict with theirs.

 

I’m not saying that opinions aren’t valid, I just think that any suggestion that Sonos make device X or Y has to take into consideration the cost to produce the device and the size of the target market...essentially what it does for the company.  

 

Again this is not something I have said doesn’t matter - it does

 

 

Smilja

Such a device would have to bridge the gap between different firmware versions. Even if such a device was technologically feasible, it would miss the deadline May 2020 anyway.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
melvimbe

I haven’t dismissed this, no where have I said these things don’t matter - they do

 

 

You’re right, you didn’t dismiss it.  You just never address it.    Do you think it makes sense for Sonos to create such a device.  Can then deveop, test, manufacture the device by May, for the limited market at a price customers can except that won’t be a huge lose for Sonos?  Is that plan better than the loss Sonos is likely to take from their current plan?  I don’t know for sure, but I find that very doubtful.

Danny
G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

I haven’t dismissed this, no where have I said these things don’t matter - they do

 

 

You’re right, you didn’t dismiss it.  You just never address it.    Do you think it makes sense for Sonos to create such a device.  Can then deveop, test, manufacture the device by May, for the limited market at a price customers can except that won’t be a huge lose for Sonos?  Is that plan better than the loss Sonos is likely to take from their current plan?  I don’t know for sure, but I find that very doubtful.

 

For the sake of clarity, I find it doubtful that a project of this nature could be started, developed and delivered to market between now and May - that’s a period of about 11 weeks which is not a lot of time.

R
Userlevel 6
Badge +2

I haven’t been following this thread closely in a while.  Has there been any other official communication from Sonos besides the two emails? I suppose those in charge at Sonos feel that the matter is put to rest, but I sure don’t. 

A
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

I have been reading through this thread with dismay. I have slowly built up my system over many years and now have the perfect system for my use. I was completely satisfied with it. Now I’m told that my play 5 gen 1 is legacy and my entire system is going to be compromised in some way. Ironically I considered ‘upgrading’ to the new play 5 a while ago when it was available at a great price (better than30% off) but decided that it offered small gains over existing one and I find the plastic look of it far less classy than the gen 1.  Anyway what next?  I agree that trust has gone almost entirely. When will my play 1s need upgrading?  Also the gen 2 play 5 has been around for a bit now and who on earth would consider the ancient playbar?  Sonos will have to introduce a ‘use by” date for their range whereby you’ll know how long the expensive products you’re buying will last. I thought my products would work until they broke which I expected to be a very long time given the premium price. Also I really don’t need anything more than the ability to play multi room music. Can we slim down the firmware? Bin truetone and other features that are causing customer and environmental headaches. If I’d known this was going to happen I honestly would have hung on to my previous Sonos equipment. 

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

I haven’t been following this thread closely in a while.  Has there been any other official communication from Sonos besides the two emails? I suppose those in charge at Sonos feel that the matter is put to rest, but I sure don’t. 

None Razorhog and this is the problem.

I don’t have strongly held tech beliefs (probably not bright enough to do so :grinning: ) but I do know that we need direction and a path or intention from Sonos. 

Probably that’s all a large percentage of us need to keep listening … and who knows maybe agreeing if we like what we hear?

In the meantime while we have no clear updates, even the most patient and open minded of us are looking elsewhere …  and trying and buying! 

Should those at Sonos feel it is a ‘done deal’ then I’d suggest that to be shortsighted.

Whilst debate as to possible architecture, hardware and possible tech solution is interesting (and it is), the more that debate swirls, the more Sonos gets let off the accountability hook.

We do (as you say) need a new and clear update. Has been quite a while and it is entirely reasonable to expect some words. Saying to ‘wait until May’ was a start. But it’s not enough.

B
Userlevel 3
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I haven’t been following this thread closely in a while.  Has there been any other official communication from Sonos besides the two emails? I suppose those in charge at Sonos feel that the matter is put to rest, but I sure don’t. 

Or they’re running around like headless chickens with no plan B as plan A turns into a PR shambles.

J

What is there to update at this stage? In May you can keep everything in legacy mode, split your system or upgrade your legacy devices. 

What extra information are you expecting a couple of weeks after the announcement?

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

What is there to update at this stage? In May you can keep everything in legacy mode, split your system or upgrade your legacy devices. 

What extra information are you expecting a couple of weeks agter the announcement?

 

It was a marketing holding statement, nothing more. Is normal marketing stuff … 101. Anyone who ever worked in that sector knows this. Good or bad. And they do. They absolutely do.  

Good enough in itself but enough to buy folks loyalty? I think not. Is why we are 140 pages of yabber later on. Of which I have played my part. You too I imagine.

Clear statements that stamps on disquiet? Usually effective if not endearing. 

Do not misunderstand, I’m not looking to jump on and bury Sonos. I just want to know (precisely) were we are going. We are halfway through Feb. So that’s effectively 10 working weeks away? They absolutely know what the May statement will be.

No corporation on earth would not know what they are going to announce …  and why.

And yes, two weeks on, we (the Sonos buying and enjoying public) have an expectation to hear.

737Max, New formula Coke, a dozen others … you can turn a tanker around on a sixpence if you have the will or desire. I don’t mean ‘agree with me’ but ‘do as you say and say as you do’ …. it almost always works … for individuals or corporations.

 

J

But they have said what the options will be.  If they haven't changed their minds what else is there to say?

A
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

But they have said what the options will be.  If they haven't changed their minds what else is there to say?

Sounds like you are across or then. So John, what happens in a few months or years time, there are more legacy "part 2" devices? Do those devices that were part of the modern group in modern firmware working with the latest streaming services, be pushed back to the legacy group? So in effect then all future marked legacy would go back to what will work ending May 2020?

Or will there be multiple legacy groups, all supporting different services? You could end up then with 3 or 4 groups in years to come.

 

 

K
Userlevel 2

 

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

 

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

Actually let me tell you about the path forward.

I have just bought a new Bose soundbar for our spare room. The Sonos one rates better and costs more or less the same but I’m no longer convinced of the benefits of the ‘smart’, ‘integrated’ network if the products are only supported for a few years.

I’ll keep what we’ve got (16 Sonos devices apparently) going while I can but you guys aren’t on the short list for replacements.

Looks to me like Sonos needs new managment

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