Changes to volume mapping and impact on Sub output
Thank you for your feedback regarding the recent 14.12 software update with Enhanced Clarity for Arc.
In this update, we made a change to Arc’s audio profile to improve dialogue clarity and the overall sound experience. This change is based on feedback from our listeners in the field and brings Arc in line with our other Home Theater products, resulting in a more accurate representation of the sound as intended by the content creator.
The updated tuning adjusts the spectral balance of Arc+Sub to achieve a more accurate representation of the sound and an improved sound experience. While the Arc+Sub output capability remains the same, the mapping of volume across the 0-100% range has been adjusted with this release which means low and mid volume levels are relatively lower compared to the previous tuning so you may need to adjust the volume slider to achieve your pre-update volume level. The maximum volume and bass output are unchanged. We acknowledge that this change was not made more clear in the release notes and in the future we’ll be sure to make sure we communicate these rare changes more effectively.
Please note, we have identified an issue for some users of Arc, Beam and Ray whose configuration includes a Sub (with or without surrounds), who may find their Sub output is lower than desired after performing a new Trueplay tuning.
Users with Beam or Ray bonded with Sub can increase the Sub level for a more powerful low-end response, however this won’t have the same impact for Arc users. Customers using Arc bonded with a Sub (and/or surrounds) who find their Sub output is lower than desired following performing a new Trueplay tuning, should temporarily disable Trueplay on Arc until this is addressed by an upcoming software update.
Trueplay tunings for Home Theater configurations without a bonded Sub are unaffected, including standalone soundbars and those bonded with surrounds only.
If you would like any assistance adjusting the sound of your Home Theater setup, the community is here to help. You can also contact Sonos support.
Moderation edit:
With the 14.18 software update, the above mentioned issues have been addressed, and the Enhanced Clarity for Arc adjustments are retained. There was a clear preference within our community for the previous volume settings, and these have been restored. This will be apparent immediately after updating to 14.18. The Trueplay issue has been fixed. Customers who experienced a lower Sub level after performing Trueplay after updating to 14.12 will need to update their systems and then perform a new Trueplay tuning in order to address these improvements in their system. Customers will hear a more powerful low end response, meaning any Sub level adjustments made after 14.12 should no longer be required.
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While I'm glad Sonos has atleast responded to and acknowledged this issue (albeit not in it's entirety), I still think that this response is an oversimplification of the issue. Simply "turning up the sub audio" does not replicate the output that we had pre 14.12 (even with turning your sub audio and system's overall volume all the way up. Which is also obnoxious and not a sufficient solution for the record). Pre 14.12 I could have my system play at a moderate overall volume, with the sub punching. I cannot replicate the sound profile that I enjoyed pre 14.12 update, no matter how much I revise the settings. I'll add that with the sub audio all the way up (& overall volume extremely high), there appears to be more of a boost to mid bass than to the low end. While the new "sound profile" isn't completely terrible it definitely is different and the old profile can't be replicated by turning up the sub audio. So, as a substantially invested Sonos customer, I do not find this response to be comprehensive or completely accurate. Please give us our Subs back. Perhaps, allow a sound profile option. Just a thought. Thanks!
Are you using the Sub with the Beam or the Ray?
Home theater group- Arc, Sub Gen 3, and One Sl's
If you are using the Arc, Sonos doesn’t recommend turning up the Sub audio. They recommend temporarily disabling Trueplay on the Arc until the issue is addressed with an upcoming software update.
If these “Sonos fans” are going to chime, why do you feel the need to jump in and speak on their behalf? Wouldn’t it be better to let them speak for themselves, rather than trying to preface the statements you think are coming in a negative context.
I do recall saying something similar to this regarding the EUL for the Sonos app and it’s functionality, perhaps in terms of device firmware features added/removed, but with an entirely different context.
As to the first, I said what I said because it is a free world for everyone in it, in which the referred fan/s won’t hesitate to also ascribe motives to my statement, so I saw no reason why I should not go first because I do see such statements as just a dogmatic defence of Sonos that even Sonos does not attempt to put forth.
It would have been a lot more helpful if you mentioned the thread you specifically had in mind to provide some context. As it stood without context, it looked like you were referring to conversations that happened years ago on completely different topics.
Why would Sonos bother with a EULA if they do not intend to use it as an argument? What a silly comment, of course Sonos will use the EULA as an argument, there's no other reason to have a EULA.
Disabling TruePlay has made little difference on my system (Arc + sub + surrounds). The sound is still tinny with no depth to the bass, even if I then turn up the bass EQ to full. My conclusion is either Sonos have not fully understood the scope of the issue yet, or they have chosen to downplay it for marketing reasons. In my opinion neither reflects well on Sonos.
Even if you ignore the unintended issues of bass response being broken in some setups, when you have customers who have spent thousands of $/£ on Sonos equipment, I find it pretty disappointing that Sonos product management ever thought it would be ok to roll out a significant change to the sound profile to all Arc customers on an automated software update with no ability for users to opt in or out of the change. Sure, some people like the change, and some don’t. But those people who auditioned the Sonos equipment or who relied on reviews of the sound profile by seasoned reviewers, are now left with a product that no longer provides that experience. Sonos isn’t some subscription service where people who don’t like the new experience can just switch to another service. It’s expensive hardware that you’re stuck with if Sonos decide that the sound profile you liked when you made your purchase decision is no longer available. In my opinion, this is not a good way to treat customers if you want them to be happy and remain long term Sonos fans, or repeat customers as new products are released.
As soon as this issue has been resolved (if it ever is) then I will be disabling Sonos software updates and hoping Sonos continues to work as is in a stable sate without needing any kind of mandatory update in the future.
I’ve adjusted my “would you recommend Sonos to a friend” score from 8/10 down to 2/10.
For those who are not effected by the any issues or who don’t find this experience as disappointing as me, then that’s ok. I’m just trying to respectfully share my experience and my opinion, and I’m not saying it reflects your experience or should be your opinion.
Why would Sonos bother with a EULA if they do not intend to use it as an argument? What a silly comment, of course Sonos will use the EULA as an argument, there's no other reason to have a EULA.
What is a EULA?
Why would Sonos bother with a EULA if they do not intend to use it as an argument? What a silly comment, of course Sonos will use the EULA as an argument, there's no other reason to have a EULA.
What is a EULA?
End User License Agreement
Why would Sonos bother with a EULA if they do not intend to use it as an argument? What a silly comment, of course Sonos will use the EULA as an argument, there's no other reason to have a EULA.
What is a EULA?
End User License Agreement. Unlike hardware, which you purchase and own, the software you "buy" is really a license to use, and as such, it is not covered by the same warranty laws as the hardware. Almost all software made has a EULA which includes clauses which allow the producers of the software to alter it at will. Here is Sonos' for US users:
Why would Sonos bother with a EULA if they do not intend to use it as an argument? What a silly comment, of course Sonos will use the EULA as an argument, there's no other reason to have a EULA.
What is a EULA?
End User License Agreement. Unlike hardware, which you purchase and own, the software you "buy" is really a license to use, and as such, it is not covered by the same warranty laws as the hardware. Almost all software made has a EULA which includes clauses which allow the producers of the software to alter it at will. Here is Sonos' for US users:
After reading the section, even thought it says turning off auto updates would not get updated, mine did. Very aggravating to say the least.
After reading the section, even thought it says turning off auto updates would not get updated, mine did. Very aggravating to say the least.
It has already been explained to you - Turning off automatic updates in the Sonos app only turns off firmware updates to the Sonos hardware. You must also turn off automatic updates to the apps on your controller devices. Automatic app updates are a feature of the mobile OS, and cannot be controlled by Sonos. Which is why your controller app was updated, which in turn alerted you to the firmware update on the Sonos hardware because the two were out of sync.
This is one of the crappiest “features” of iOS/Android, auto updates are either off or on, you cannot set it to off for some apps and on for others.
Disabling TruePlay has made little difference on my system (Arc + sub + surrounds). The sound is still tinny with no depth to the bass, even if I then turn up the bass EQ to full. My conclusion is either Sonos have not fully understood the scope of the issue yet, or they have chosen to downplay it for marketing reasons. In my opinion neither reflects well on Sonos.
Even if you ignore the unintended issues of bass response being broken in some setups, when you have customers who have spent thousands of $/£ on Sonos equipment, I find it pretty disappointing that Sonos product management ever thought it would be ok to roll out a significant change to the sound profile to all Arc customers on an automated software update with no ability for users to opt in or out of the change. Sure, some people like the change, and some don’t. But those people who auditioned the Sonos equipment or who relied on reviews of the sound profile by seasoned reviewers, are now left with a product that no longer provides that experience. Sonos isn’t some subscription service where people who don’t like the new experience can just switch to another service. It’s expensive hardware that you’re stuck with if Sonos decide that the sound profile you liked when you made your purchase decision is no longer available. In my opinion, this is not a good way to treat customers if you want them to be happy and remain long term Sonos fans, or repeat customers as new products are released.
As soon as this issue has been resolved (if it ever is) then I will be disabling Sonos software updates and hoping Sonos continues to work as is in a stable sate without needing any kind of mandatory update in the future.
I’ve adjusted my “would you recommend Sonos to a friend” score from 8/10 down to 2/10.
For those who are not effected by the any issues or who don’t find this experience as disappointing as me, then that’s ok. I’m just trying to respectfully share my experience and my opinion, and I’m not saying it reflects your experience or should be your opinion.
Two months ago (with the connectivity issue and sonos completely ignoring it and the people who complained about it), I recommended a friend to stay away from sonos if he wants to stay sane. Now, another friend of mine wants to buy a new theater system and I told him the same thing. losing two customers is probably not gonna make a difference at sonos, but if they’re trying to make a bad reputation for the company, it’s definitely working.
After reading the section, even thought it says turning off auto updates would not get updated, mine did. Very aggravating to say the least.
It has already been explained to you - Turning off automatic updates in the Sonos app only turns off firmware updates to the Sonos hardware. You must also turn off automatic updates to the apps on your controller devices. Automatic app updates are a feature of the mobile OS, and cannot be controlled by Sonos. Which is why your controller app was updated, which in turn alerted you to the firmware update on the Sonos hardware because the two were out of sync.
This is one of the crappiest “features” of iOS/Android, auto updates are either off or on, you cannot set it to off for some apps and on for others.
And it’s also turned off on my devices… jeeeese.. not everyone s first rodeo
There has never been a case reported and confirmed here in which Sonos updated itself without prior authorization to do so.
Which leads many of us to the conclusion that either this is absolutely new behaviour, or there’s something else going on.
And it’s also turned off on my devices… jeeeese.. not everyone s first rodeo
I don’t know you from Adam, you could be a neophyte or you could be the next coming of Steve Jobs. Given that, like all other support techniques, we start with the basics. But hey, sorry for trying to help.
After reading the section, even thought it says turning off auto updates would not get updated, mine did. Very aggravating to say the least.
It has already been explained to you - Turning off automatic updates in the Sonos app only turns off firmware updates to the Sonos hardware. You must also turn off automatic updates to the apps on your controller devices. Automatic app updates are a feature of the mobile OS, and cannot be controlled by Sonos. Which is why your controller app was updated, which in turn alerted you to the firmware update on the Sonos hardware because the two were out of sync.
This is one of the crappiest “features” of iOS/Android, auto updates are either off or on, you cannot set it to off for some apps and on for others.
And it’s also turned off on my devices… jeeeese.. not everyone s first rodeo
Clearly you have only just done that, or you would not have been in the position of having app on 14.12 and system on 14.10.
Sonos needs to take a look at their development and QA process. Clearly there is something wrong. I don’t care about turning up the volume but not having sub or disabling Trueplay is pretty lame. As it happens I got my arc and sub the day this update came out so it has never run on anything else. Not a great first experience. Once they fix the sub issue I expect I will be happy but I am close to retuning the arc and sub anyway just because not leaves a bad taste in my mouth. especially after it took them months to fix the issues with arc, sub, and rears disconnecting. I’m betting when they fired half their American staff to save money they also outsourced development to the usual 3rd world countries.
The sound is absolutely shocking after this update. I don’t have a sub and the Arc is standalone which was never a problem before. While watching films with Atmos soundtracks it feels like half the soundstage is missing. There’s simply no low end base anymore. You should at least add sound profiles in allowing us to choose the sound we prefer, we are the mercy of your mistakes with no comeback.
The communication has also been terrible. If your making a change of this magnitude you shouldn’t wait for users to search the forums to find out what’s changed. You should be proactively mailing those that have registered the product. I’ll be thinking twice about Sonos products in the future if it can change so dramatically over the products lifetime with no option to revert.
Maybe listen to this feedback from your listeners
WE ARE NOT HAPPY!
Please put the sound back to pre-14.12 why you try to figure out what you f@&£ked up
And in future don’t roll out un-tested firmware changes until you’ve tested them on every configuration.
We are just a few voices, but there are thousand of angry customers out there who know nothing of this Sonos forum.
You have the option to roll back the firmware, do it now rather than waiting weeks for new firmware!
It won’t make you look weak to say you made a mistake and applied a temporary soultion, it will make you look like you have good customer service, rather than poor customer service!
Sonos needs to revert to the sound profile we all purchased and provide an option to adjust to other preset sound profiles as well as provide a more robust EQ. I know you all worked very hard on this update, but it wasn’t properly tested and missed the mark by a significant margin.
After reading the section, even thought it says turning off auto updates would not get updated, mine did. Very aggravating to say the least.
It has already been explained to you - Turning off automatic updates in the Sonos app only turns off firmware updates to the Sonos hardware. You must also turn off automatic updates to the apps on your controller devices. Automatic app updates are a feature of the mobile OS, and cannot be controlled by Sonos. Which is why your controller app was updated, which in turn alerted you to the firmware update on the Sonos hardware because the two were out of sync.
This is one of the crappiest “features” of iOS/Android, auto updates are either off or on, you cannot set it to off for some apps and on for others.
Certainly for Android, that isn't a 'feature' at all , auto updates are not either off or on and you can turn off Auto updates on an App basis.
Just select the top right for the App to decide if you want it to auto update.
Well, you learn something new everyday.
Sonos needs to take a look at their development and QA process. Clearly there is something wrong.
Maybe, but since Sonos would have to test with various combinations of speakers, room dimensions, wall materials, TVs, source devices, and who knows what else, Sonos can’t possibly test every combination. Sure, you can logically eliminate some of those factors, or decide that test cases are similar enough that one test can represent a set of cases...but these are the sort of assumptions that tend to get you into trouble. Point is, you have to accept some level of risk. It could be that there were some clear mistakes made, or it could be that Sonos has just had some ‘bad luck’. Spending more time and effort may just wasted money without really reducing the risk of another bug. I don’t know, but I don’t think it’s obvious with what little information we have to go on.
I don’t care about turning up the volume but not having sub or disabling Trueplay is pretty lame. As it happens I got my arc and sub the day this update came out so it has never run on anything else. Not a great first experience. Once they fix the sub issue I expect I will be happy but I am close to retuning the arc and sub anyway just because not leaves a bad taste in my mouth. especially after it took them months to fix the issues with arc, sub, and rears disconnecting.
Somewhat of a catch-22 to want Sonos to improve on dev and QA, yet also want to do it in a shorter period of time. Yes, you can throw more people and money at a problem, but that has it downsides too.
I’m betting when they fired half their American staff to save money they also outsourced development to the usual 3rd world countries.
When did Sonos fire half their American staff? They have had some rounds of layoffs over the years, none in the past couple years that I recall, and I don’t recall any of them doing anything that drastic or outsourcing development as you’re suggesting.
Well using two Play:1’s almost side by side, one on S1 and the other on S2 with Trueplay disabled and flat EQ, I struggle to hear any differences to shout Home about .. see screenshot attached. which shows my brief test here…
I’m surprised that you can’t hear a difference, as your screenshot shows that you were playing two different tracks ;-)
It was just a sample screenshot - I assure you @amun I did play the same tracks from the same audio source - I did mention that Amazon would not let me stream/play the two at the same time - I took several screenshots and here is another from 11.31hrs this morning taken during the same test.
Hi I found the following video on YouTube. The frequency response of Sonos arc does change from 14.10 to 14.12 when turning off the Trueplay. (put them in the same volume level)
I don’t think Sonos team will take their ‘valuable time’ to design an extra profile for my Sonos one, so here can show why I can hear the difference even if I turn off the Trueplay, and why the clarity improves when I downgrade to s1.
Why would Sonos bother with a EULA if they do not intend to use it as an argument? What a silly comment, of course Sonos will use the EULA as an argument, there's no other reason to have a EULA.
This is actually the silly comment. No CEO in his right mind will allow his engineers to use EULA to defend the company/engineer failures if the sound profile of a speaker is changed the way it seems to have changed in this case of the Arc.
Never mind what Sonos fans trot out in dogmatic defence of such a change, it costs them nothing to do this.
Certainly for Android, that isn't a 'feature' at all , auto updates are not either off or on and you can turn off Auto updates on an App basis.
Just select the top right for the App to decide if you want it to auto update.
Thanks for posting this. I was going to say it’s not available on my Galaxy, but it is...just not where I would expect it. You can’t set this in Settings for apps….where permissions, notifications, and everything else is. You have to view the app in the Play store, and then you can enable/disable this. I mean, why would anybody expect to change the auto-update setting under Settings?
Hi, it seems Amazon music only gives HD stream support for s2. You can see that in your s1 picture there is no HD sign. That means you have worse source sound quality in s1. If possible I think it’s better to control this variable such as play the same local flac and compare.
I do find the high vocal in s1 is richer and not as sharp as that in s2 14.12 with trueplay. Also the clarity improves a lot in s1 comparing to s2 without trueplay.
Maybe my ears get ill XD
I think you will find that what S1 lacks is the ability to display the symbol, not to play the format. Displaying format was an S2 enhancement post the S1/S2 split. Sonos has been capable of playing lossless CD quality files since it was launched. I don’t agree with anything in your post.
The frequency response did change from 14.10 to 14.12 when the Trueplay is off. A valid test is here and you can find the YouTube link in my previous test. I think this is a global change of sound signature on all Sonos devices and it is not the bug of that Trueplay issue. They increased the bass and decreased the treble in 14.12, which decreased the clarity. Then when you turn on the Trueplay, the bass is gone...
This change of frequency response is consistent with what I hear on Sonos one. I think this test is global and confirmed what I hear. I will hold my opinion because I haven’t seen any valid posts or tests saying everything else keeps the same but the Trueplay.
