It’s not as though your proclaimed ‘Sonos fans’ just started throwing out EULA, it was a response to talk of getting refunds already.  It’s not so much a defense of Sonos as it as reality check that you don’t have a legal right to a refund because of the EULA we all signed. And you’re unlikely to get Sonos, or any other company, to grant you a refund (which they don’t have to do) until they’ve given up on trying to address the issue...if they even agree to it then.  Since Sonos posted they have issues to fix, they clearly aren’t done.

But sure, everyone should just keep quite about the EULA so that those thinking about a refund can waste their time calling up Sonos.

What he said^.  Nobody mentioned a EULA until customers being owed a refund was mentioned.

One more voice confirming that bass is broken with this threads configuration (Arc + Sub). We’ve an Arc, 2 subs and 2 ones, 36sqm rectangular room with decent acoustics.

14.12 seems to have completely broken Trueplay, specifically the sub output is just non existent in the super lows and treble seems fully cranked. It is pretty unpleasant to listen to in general with Trueplay on.

Luckily we can turn it off but I feel for folk that were relying on Trueplay to balance out their listening space.

What specific part of the EULA covers a change in the way the product sounds after an update, from how it sounded when I bought it? From what I have found there, EULA applies to 

The software, as embedded in the Product for the purpose of operating the Products, documentations, interfaces, content, fonts and any data that came with Your Product (“Original Product Software”), as may be updated or replaced by feature enhancements, software updates or system restore software provided by Sonos (“Product Software Updates”) whether in read only memory, on any other media or in any other form (the Original Product Software and Product Software Updates are collectively referred to as the “Product Software” or “Software”) are licensed, not sold, to You by Sonos, Inc. for use only under the terms of this Agreement.

Bold bit by me for clarity.

Where does this cover changes to the sound profile of the speaker after it was purchased?

Is this change in how the speaker sounds covered elsewhere in the EULA?

Yes, it is.  Section 10.b. deals with no warranty  "THAT THE FUNCTIONS, FEATURES, OR SERVICES PERFORMED OR PROVIDED BY, INCLUDING THIRD PARTY FEATURES AND SERVICES, CONTAINED IN THE PRODUCT SOFTWARE WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS;".

Game. Set. Match.

I don’t see it there; and it needs a referee to call a match, not the server. But why am I not surprised?

If I see it anywhere, I see it in 5c:

Automatic Software Updates. We may, from time to time, develop patches, bug fixes, updates, upgrades, and other modifications to improve the performance of the Product(s) and/or Services. 

The question then is, in this case, has the Arc sound been improved from what it was earlier?

That isn’t something I can speak to.

On the EULA subject: it has been a long time since I read one, but the Sonos EULA is quite an easy read as EULAs go.

The EULA makes a clear legal distinction between the Product and Product Software where the latter is as posted earlier - The software, as embedded in the Product for the purpose of operating the Products - and a good lawyer will make this out to mean all the software that the user interfaces with via the app etc, in order to operate the speaker/s. 

There is even a case therefore to say that 5c, while referring to improving the performance of the Product, is placed under the paragraph “Automatic Software updates” , thereby restricting those changes to those that improve the user interface for operating the product.

Tennis anyone?

I already had disabled trueplay and my initial comment factors in all suggested resolutions on this matter. As far as turning up the sub audio, when you're sub output is drastically decreased, that is simply the next logical step lol. Not to mention, Sonos did advise to turn up the sub audio via a support case email.

The OP does not state that they will address the issue in it's entirety and makes the false presumption that turning trueplay off will solve the issue for ALL Arc-Sub users.

NEWS FLASH - TURNING TRUEPLAY OFF DOESN'T SOLVE THE SUB OUTPUT ISSUE FOR ALL ARC/SUB USERS. Turning trueplay off (for many of us) does not replicate the sound profile that existed pre 14.12 update (as stated in my initial comment).

Get this right Sonos. You can do it. Cheers!

​​​​

@IMSmitty 

I can confirm that the sub output issue is the same with trueplay off. The sonos statement saying its fine with trueplay off is false. It sounds terrible and nothing like the pre 14.12 sound signature.

Sonos please fix this !!

Certainly for Android, that isn't a 'feature' at all , auto updates are not either off or on and you can turn off Auto updates on an App basis.

Just select the top right for the App to decide if you want it to auto update.

 

 

Thanks for posting this.  I was going to say it’s not available on my Galaxy, but it is...just not where I would expect it.  You can’t set this in Settings for apps….where permissions, notifications, and everything else is.  You have to view the app in the Play store, and then you can enable/disable this.  I mean, why would anybody expect to change the auto-update setting under Settings?

A bit more info about this.  When I selected “Enable auto update” on one app (from position of globally off) I got the following screen:

If I clicked “No thanks”, auto updates were not turned on for the individual app.  If I clicked “Turn on” then it is turned on updates globally.  I found I had to enable all then disable individually, which actually suits me very well.

Maybe I was doing something stupid initially, but I have ended up where i wanted to be.  Thanks to @sjw for pointing this out.  This came as news to me.

I am more than happy with Peter Pee’s review of the changes to the Sonos Arc in the 14.12 update - however  the review just does not apply to other Sonos products, like the Play:1/Sonos One speaker that you keep mentioning  …and looking at your online profile, you don’t own the Arc, so not sure what you are trying to say here?

The recent 14.12 update did not change your standalone Play:1/Sonos One speaker. If you think it did then perhaps speak with Sonos Customer Support via this LINK and perhaps try to resolve your issue directly with them.

Perhaps kindly report back later on what the Staff had to say about the matter.

Guys,

I too have had issues with audio quality following the 14.12 update.

Today I decided to connect my sub to my router via Ethernet instead of wireless. The sub now works perfectly.

Prior to the last update the sub worked perfectly via wireless.

It is difficult to believe that this explains any perceived difference related to the update. Wired vs wireless may affect dropouts and glitches but not "audio quality". Do you have any other Sonos devices wired?

Hi John,

Yes, my ARC is wired.

I understand your point about dropouts etc, but I can only tell you what I experienced:

wireless sub - virtually inaudible, even with sub volume at maximum

wired sub - audible with sub volume set at maximum

I am going to experiment later with a variety of content and different sub volumes.

I have also got Trueplay switched off as per the advice previously given in this thread.

I am glad you have the Arc wired as well - it’s a bad idea to wire only the Sub.  Can you confirm please that you still have ‘WiFi enabled” on the Arc and haven’t set it to ‘Disable Wifi”

Hi John,

Both the ARC and Sub have WiFi disabled. My One SLs are WiFi enabled.

If you had wifi disabled on the Arc when it was wired and the Sub wireless then that would explain the Sub's poor performance. Please change both devices to WiFi enabled. Leave the Arc wired and take the cable off the Sub. It will probably then be fine.

Thanks for the tip John. I will give it a try.

Hi John,

Just tried your suggestion and it works! Thanks very much.

I saw your post in another thread about the issue with the Disable Wireless setting being misleading.

That's good. This wasn't related to the update. The "Disable wifi" setting is misleadingly labelled. You had unwittingly prevented the Arc from communicating directly with the Sub.

Your wireless surrounds would not have worked either.

Edit: your last post crossed with mine.

No tennis at all.  The clause I listed above states unequivocally that you are not guaranteed the software will meet your personal requirements.  Period.  Now go fetch the ball.

Hi John,

The surrounds were working, albeit with the odd drop out. Presumably they must have been using my router WiFi to connect to the ARC?

Clearly you lack any legal training. Stick to software engineering.

Says the person who spent months trying to out engineer the Sonos engineers when it comes to the S1/S2 split.  Let’s just say I know a hell of a lot more about law than you do about software engineering.  Your “Brexit” thread was downright embarrassing.