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**Class Action Lawsuit** We all deserve to recoup all hardware investment

If ever a situation called for a class action lawsuit, this is it:

  • Company sells customers expensive, multi-unit hardware systems
  • Tethers customers to a software ecosystem to use them effectively
  • Dramatically changes software into an auto-update environment
  • Unsuspecting customers lose access to extensive, core media sources and features that significantly diminish the value of their expensive hardware and/or make it untenable for usage they had every reason to believe they would continue to have
  • Customers wishing to continue meeting these essential needs forced to sell Company hardware that they had no intention of doing at a loss and buy competitor hardware.
  • Pattern of behavior by Company indicates that choices made to remove said functionality were part of an intentional, plan to damage the product experience of many users in favor of others.

Seriously. This would be like selling someone a car and then updating the operating system so that the steering wheels was controlled by AI instead of manual because there’s more profit there for the company.

Even if they resolve this issue with their awful software release, how much in damages are deserved for every customer for heir lost time and undue harm?

The store value of my hardware suite, which I had no intention of replacing is probably $7,000 - $8,000. How much do others have invested who believe they need to leave SONOS?

I am not someone who can start a class action lawsuit, but I’m sure there are people here who can, and I’d be at the front of the line to join it and recoup my losses. If you feel similarly, then bump up this thread so that SONOS is held accountable

226 replies

K
Userlevel 5
Badge +3

Sonos are not luxury products. They cost the same as comparable devices such as Denon HEOS or Bluesound. 

Don't fool yourself into believing you deserve special treatment because you think you have bought into luxury! 

Expecting the app to function is expecting “special” treatment?  I don’t think wanting to listen to my music on my music system makes me some snooty diva.  

 

Of course it doesn’t.  However, the cost/quality of the goods makes no difference on that expectation, and mentioning it appears to put some sort of emphasis on something which really doesn’t matter (and often times isn’t even the truth.  Check out the cost and time spent maintaining a Porsche, or a Ferrari).  But why are we even bickering about this crap?  Some people have a different opinion than yours.  Who cares?  They are allowed to do that.  Them having less problems (or God forbid them actually helping people have less problems) with the app does not affect your opinion or your situation one bit, so let it go when someone feels differently.  

Ditto.

jgatie

Ditto.

 

Gladly. 🙄

melvimbe

Most Sonos users aren't 12, and most customers don't even know about or use this forum. You're putting a lot of unrealistic expectations on the Sonos market here, especially for luxury products. 

I agree, customers are likely older and (hopefully) more sensible than some 12 year olds and can search and read things for themselves. It takes a few minutes of watching a YouTube video, or reading a web-page to learn what a .apk file is for Android users and how to quickly download/install the package.
 

If that’s beyond a Sonos users mindset to read/watch such information being parted to them, then I suspect they haven’t even setup their mobile device, WiFi network, or even a Sonos system yet either, as all those things are certainly far more difficult than installing a 3rd-party App on an Android mobile device.

 

 

I can’t agree with this.  Setup of mobile device, WiFi network, etc comes with instructions from the manufacturer.  That’s entirely different than having to search the internet for solutions provided by other users, in order to do the initial setup of a device and use the device as the manufacturer intended.    No one’s buying a Sonos speaker from ikea or otherwise with the thought that they might have to do some research, possibly install some software that Sonos no longer supports, and find a friend with an android to use the thing.  There just going to return the speakers and be done with it.

Personally, I would tell anyone I know that you can buy a Sonos speaker right now, and maybe good time too given the current sale, but expect that you may need to wait a while before you can actually use them, except for Ace.  I am confident these issues will be addressed, but I would not be recommending users to get the previous apk to do it right now unless returning or waiting is not really an option for whatever reason.

 

Danny
G

Nobody has ever asked me to recommend Sonos devices. 

I've never recommended Sonos to anyone. 

So, that's not an issue for me. 

 

It works for me, in so far as what's in the app, but I don't like it.  I am prepared to wait to see if Sonos can fulfill its claims.

I'm not scrapping anything, I'm not calling for legal action, I'm just going to wait and see. 

🎵 First We Take Manhattan Then Berlin 🎵
Ken_Griffiths

 

 

I can’t agree with this.  Setup of mobile device, WiFi network, etc comes with instructions from the manufacturer.  That’s entirely different than having to search the internet for solutions provided by other users, in order to do the initial setup of a device and use the device as the manufacturer intended.    No one’s buying a Sonos speaker from ikea or otherwise with the thought that they might have to do some research, possibly install some software that Sonos no longer supports, and find a friend with an android to use the thing.  There just going to return the speakers and be done with it.

Personally, I would tell anyone I know that you can buy a Sonos speaker right now, and maybe good time too given the current sale, but expect that you may need to wait a while before you can actually use them, except for Ace.  I am confident these issues will be addressed, but I would not be recommending users to get the previous apk to do it right now unless returning or waiting is not really an option for whatever reason.

Did you miss the discussion about options for that user who was about to return their symfonisk speakers, which apparently would not setup in the new App and who were seemingly not prepared to wait for the update, or could not get through to Sonos Support/or sort it with them.

By all means let them take ‘em back to the POS, but some others in the community here have mentioned product setup worked for them with the previous S2 .apk installer. I was simply presenting them with that option. It’s a matter for them and if they want to skip and return the speakers, then that’s fine too.

A

Lots of comments for and against, but the reality is I now own $4000 worth of sound system that doesn’t work because of a software update, and still no resolution!

T
Userlevel 2
Badge

Sure, I appreciate that.   Given some of the tortuous contributions recently, quite frankly I'm surprised how efficient the previous app must have been to get devices up and running from scratch.

Let's hope those in charge at Sonos pull their finger out and get the new iteration up to speed, even if just does enough to reduce the litany of threats to dump forever perfectly decent equipment & kills off the nonsensical calls for class action.! 

…and yet some users were always complaining about the S2 App here in the community and elsewhere online. The current new Sonos App is NOT finished, we all know that. It was clearly released early and I think it’s clear Sonos accept that and have announced a ‘feature development timeline’ - that’s something they do not normally do. 

Do I think they were wrong to replace the S2 App with the new App? - I can’t really answer that, as there might be reasons we’re not aware of that caused that to happen, but it is what it is. I can’t see Sonos rolling back to the S2 App, nor releasing the S2 App alongside, as I think they would have likely taken that option to begin with.

I would appreciate such a timeline if my particular issues were listed on it, but they're not, even though they've been reported by many people without acknowledgement.

Until then, I'm going to continue to use other avenues, including consumer and/or legal pressure. 

G

Sure, I appreciate that.   Given some of the tortuous contributions recently, quite frankly I'm surprised how efficient the previous app must have been to get devices up and running from scratch.

Let's hope those in charge at Sonos pull their finger out and get the new iteration up to speed, even if just does enough to reduce the litany of threats to dump forever perfectly decent equipment & kills off the nonsensical calls for class action.! 

…and yet some users were always complaining about the S2 App here in the community and elsewhere online. The current new Sonos App is NOT finished, we all know that. It was clearly released early and I think it’s clear Sonos accept that and have announced a ‘feature development timeline’ - that’s something they do not normally do. 

Do I think they were wrong to replace the S2 App with the new App? - I can’t really answer that, as there might be reasons we’re not aware of that caused that to happen, but it is what it is. I can’t see Sonos rolling back to the S2 App, nor releasing the S2 App alongside, as I think they would have likely taken that option to begin with.

I would appreciate such a timeline if my particular issues were listed on it, but they're not, even though they've been reported by many people without acknowledgement.

Until then, I'm going to continue to use other avenues, including consumer and/or legal pressure. 

What works

I have 2 Roams, 2 Play:1s, 1Beam, 1 Symfonisk Frame (and a boxed Connect, which is so clunky, I never use).  

All work without problems with the new update app - all have undergone the latest firmware update.

They all respond and play every radio station I've tried (using Sonos Radio, BBC Sounds, MyTuner, Radio Paradise, Radio France).  Spotify, Tidal and Deezer all work.  Music Library works (after I switched to a smbv2 compatible device).

The Search & Browse feature works 100‰

What doesn't work

The playlist and queue management is primitive - effectively useless

Metadata including artwork is primitive - effectively artwork is missing overall

Menu & option layout and structure is clumsy and confusing

Too much lag when loading items - varies probably as a consequence of cloud integration

The case for class action

From my experience of the original and the updated S2 apps, I would argue there would be little merit in claiming that my system has been rendered unusable or altered in such a significant way as to warrant compensation or recompense.  

I wasn't great fan of the original S2 - it contained many quirks and flaws. I am even less a fan of the updated S2 which contains even more flaws and quirks.  But to claim that I have suffered material or even personal insult would be untrue. 

Moving on

Were I to be about to invest in an audio streaming system today, would I choose the Sonos ecosystem? Probably, only in the case of a soundbar.  I would choose an alternative multi speaker system for other audio entertainment. 

The system as it stands is usable (for my purposes) and more importantly delivers good quality sound.  

I am not about to trash it, sell it or even give it away (yet). 

I expect that the current quirks and omissions in the software will eventually be addressed. 

 

 

 

🎵 First We Take Manhattan Then Berlin 🎵
A
Userlevel 2
Badge

Why do people try to justify poor support and app releases as something normal and to be expected.
I just dont get the “support BAD practice” brigade

G

Why do people try to justify poor support and app releases as something normal and to be expected.
I just dont get the “support BAD practice” brigade

I'm not a brigade member. 

I have just tried to describe how I have experienced the recent upgrade fiasco. I'm not supporting bad practice. 

I don't use Sonos on a daily basis as I have an alternative system mainly for headphone use.   

 

 

🎵 First We Take Manhattan Then Berlin 🎵
T
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

I would agree.   Software and hardware launched far too early, no quality control.  Enforced costs for bricking old kit and new kit not compatible with old.

Arrogant and totally customer unfocused.

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

Sonos could have alleviated all of this at anytime by either allowing use of old App during the transition or rolling back entirely. This is all on Sonos. And yeah the “brigade” of lets cheer on and defend terrible behavior is inexplicable. Suppose your refrigerator or car got an “upgrade” and did not work until some hazy time in the future, would the brigade members be cool with that? Defending Sonos is nonsense!

G

Sonos could have alleviated all of this at anytime by either allowing use of old App during the transition or rolling back entirely. This is all on Sonos. And yeah the “brigade” of lets cheer on and defend terrible behavior is inexplicable. Suppose your refrigerator or car got an “upgrade” and did not work until some hazy time in the future, would the brigade members be cool with that? Defending Sonos is nonsense!

What is inexplicable is why there is so much variation between installations.

Some have or claim a total failure to even get one device working (I am referring to existing devices, not new, where there are known issues) while others, me included, have had no such problems. 

Similarly, every service I've tried has worked (eg. MyTuner, BBC Sounds, Deezer, etc).  Others report total failure. 

I agree that a rollback would be appropriate for many, I've no idea why Sonos couldn't do that and relaunch the courageous update as S3. 

 

🎵 First We Take Manhattan Then Berlin 🎵
Bumper

Sonos could have alleviated all of this at anytime by either allowing use of old App during the transition or rolling back entirely. This is all on Sonos. And yeah the “brigade” of lets cheer on and defend terrible behavior is inexplicable. Suppose your refrigerator or car got an “upgrade” and did not work until some hazy time in the future, would the brigade members be cool with that? Defending Sonos is nonsense!

What is inexplicable is why there is so much variation between installations.

Some have or claim a total failure to even get one device working (I am referring to existing devices, not new, where there are known issues) while others, me included, have had no such problems. 

Similarly, every service I've tried has worked (eg. MyTuner, BBC Sounds, Deezer, etc).  Others report total failure. 

I agree that a rollback would be appropriate for many, I've no idea why Sonos couldn't do that and relaunch the courageous update as S3. 

 

I mean when you release a steaming turd of an app with so much missing and bugs one can’t tell if an issue is a bug or on purpose, experiences may vary 🤣

G

Sonos could have alleviated all of this at anytime by either allowing use of old App during the transition or rolling back entirely. This is all on Sonos. And yeah the “brigade” of lets cheer on and defend terrible behavior is inexplicable. Suppose your refrigerator or car got an “upgrade” and did not work until some hazy time in the future, would the brigade members be cool with that? Defending Sonos is nonsense!

What is inexplicable is why there is so much variation between installations.

Some have or claim a total failure to even get one device working (I am referring to existing devices, not new, where there are known issues) while others, me included, have had no such problems. 

Similarly, every service I've tried has worked (eg. MyTuner, BBC Sounds, Deezer, etc).  Others report total failure. 

I agree that a rollback would be appropriate for many, I've no idea why Sonos couldn't do that and relaunch the courageous update as S3. 

 

I mean when you release a steaming turd of an app with so much missing and bugs one can’t tell if an issue is a bug or on purpose, experiences may vary 🤣

I favour the piss up in a Brewery faction rather than the Conspiracy mob.  

No doubt it's one huge unholy mess. My only consolation is what actually is delivered as of now, works for me.  I can't be unique, others must experience the same.  So what distinguishes the afflicted others? 

🎵 First We Take Manhattan Then Berlin 🎵
sigh
Userlevel 6
Badge +8

Sonos could have alleviated all of this at anytime by either allowing use of old App during the transition or rolling back entirely. This is all on Sonos. And yeah the “brigade” of lets cheer on and defend terrible behavior is inexplicable. Suppose your refrigerator or car got an “upgrade” and did not work until some hazy time in the future, would the brigade members be cool with that? Defending Sonos is nonsense!

What is inexplicable is why there is so much variation between installations.

Some have or claim a total failure to even get one device working (I am referring to existing devices, not new, where there are known issues) while others, me included, have had no such problems. 

Similarly, every service I've tried has worked (eg. MyTuner, BBC Sounds, Deezer, etc).  Others report total failure. 

I agree that a rollback would be appropriate for many, I've no idea why Sonos couldn't do that and relaunch the courageous update as S3. 

 

I mean when you release a steaming turd of an app with so much missing and bugs one can’t tell if an issue is a bug or on purpose, experiences may vary 🤣

I favour the piss up in a Brewery faction rather than the Conspiracy mob.  

No doubt it's one huge unholy mess. My only consolation is what actually is delivered as of now, works for me.  I can't be unique, others must experience the same.  So what distinguishes the afflicted others? 

It would need Sonos to be transparent about what they have changed about the control of the hardware with the new app, or someone to collect and compare network traffic between the old and new app, especially as there wasn’t a device firmware update when the app first released.

Apart from the obvious, we released the app without that functionality, the only reason that makes sense for so much variance is that most if not all of the app commands are being sent via Sonos servers on the Internet instead of direct across the local network. Neither Sonos or the user have control of what happens to data between the in home Internet router and the Sonos servers.

Something like the random volume control behaviour screams of a high latency, lost request issue, especially when the old app has no issues at all.

Streaming audio is low bandwidth and can be buffered on device, so minor internet latency, traffic rerouting can be handled by the local buffer without the user ever being aware.

Time sensitive operations like synchronised volume control, can fall apart quite easily and visibly if the request relies on the Internet and a set of remote servers somewhere.

The cannot find system/login people are facing also highly suggests a remote Sonos server reliance on the app talking to the speakers. If the login request times out, doesn’t respond, maybe doesn’t return the registered products the app refuses to continue, where as the previous app would always find devices locally and the Sonos login was a background task that never prevented using the system, it would just state it hadn’t logged in but work fine.

If control requests are going from the app, to the Internet and back, unless each speaker keeps a reliable connection back to the Sonos servers permanently open, which seems likely with the server side web player, rather than relying on router upnp, which should be disabled given how easily it turns a router firewall into Swiss cheese, then requests hitting the wrong speakers doesn’t seem unlikely if the connection isn’t reliable.

There is little else that could realistically give the wide variance of issues in my opinion, if it was code in the app for local communication that was buggy/broken, then I would expect a pretty universal collapse of control for everyone using the app.

B
Userlevel 1

We need to organize all hardware-breaking issues caused by the new app and gather a list of people interested in participating in a class action lawsuit. I was about to start a new thread about this myself. Reports are pouring in from users who’ve spent thousands and had working hardware for years only to find their systems rendered inoperable by the app update.

 

To make matters worse, Sonos support has no chat agents available during business hours, and phone support is currently 70+ minutes to speak to someone (yesterday it was 50+ minutes). I submitted my research and evidence to The Verge to potentially cover this situation and expose Sonos’s questionable business practices. I am going to continue gathering evidence, and if anyone would like to participate in a class action suit please respond to this thread and I’ll follow up with you.

Count me in....Sonos screwed us here

H
Userlevel 2

“Yes, I’m a bit ’miffed’ that some previous functionality I sometimes used in the Sonos App, such as ‘play next’ ‘add to end of queue’ and queue editing etc. are not in the current release…”

I’m amazed at the lack of ire from some that a “better” version of the Sonos App was released which is patently unfit for service. Not being able to add to end of queue is so basic a requirement for many - even a primary school child would have insisted on it being present.  The somewhat positive comments seem to be outliers in the extreme. 

Ken_Griffiths

“Yes, I’m a bit ’miffed’ that some previous functionality I sometimes used in the Sonos App, such as ‘play next’ ‘add to end of queue’ and queue editing etc. are not in the current release…”

I’m amazed at the lack of ire from some that a “better” version of the Sonos App was released which is patently unfit for service. Not being able to add to end of queue is so basic a requirement for many - even a primary school child would have insisted on it being present.  The somewhat positive comments seem to be outliers in the extreme. 

The features you mention are apparently coming to the new App…

https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/the-new-sonos-app-and-future-feature-updates
 

Here’s an animation showing what it may look like too … (see attached)… though I guess these things could change slightly during the development too, perhaps.

1 Attachment
G

We need to organize all hardware-breaking issues caused by the new app and gather a list of people interested in participating in a class action lawsuit. I was about to start a new thread about this myself. Reports are pouring in from users who’ve spent thousands and had working hardware for years only to find their systems rendered inoperable by the app update.

 

To make matters worse, Sonos support has no chat agents available during business hours, and phone support is currently 70+ minutes to speak to someone (yesterday it was 50+ minutes). I submitted my research and evidence to The Verge to potentially cover this situation and expose Sonos’s questionable business practices. I am going to continue gathering evidence, and if anyone would like to participate in a class action suit please respond to this thread and I’ll follow up with you.

Count me in....Sonos screwed us here

How much cash you spent or how many years you've used the equipment is irrelevant.  Someone who buys a device today may have a case for a full refund (on return of the item).  If your devices are out of the warranty period, then your options in reality are limited, and a lawyer is probably the last course of action to take. 

🎵 First We Take Manhattan Then Berlin 🎵
G

As far as I know there are no instances of the new software 'breaking' any hardware components. 

Avoid hyperbole when you consult with your legal team. 

 

🎵 First We Take Manhattan Then Berlin 🎵
A
Userlevel 2
Badge

I have a Sonos One, A play 1 and a PlayBar that wont connect and register since the new Sonos 2 app, they are recognised by Sonos 1 app that launches Sonos 2 and then fails to connect and register.
I have tried using a different account and router which I shouldnt have to do and same problem, these are Gen 1 items.   They all worked ok prior to the new Sonos 1 and 2 updates.

A
Userlevel 2
Badge

When answering or reporting on latest software issues,
it essential to know what Sonos devices/gens have you tested with new Sonos 2 app.
In additiion wether you had to move and reconnect and reregister any of your existing sonos equiptment.  Or if your just using existing sonos setup with no changes with new app.

Ken_Griffiths

I have a Sonos One, A play 1 and a PlayBar that wont connect and register since the new Sonos 2 app,
they are recognised by Sonos 1 app that launches Sonos 2 and then failes to connect and register.
I have tried using a different account and router which I shouldnt have to do and same problem,
these are Gen 1 items.

What is the software version showing on each one of your products in the S1 App ‘about box’? - perhaps see if each device is currently using software v11.4 build 57.2-151190, which I think is the current S1 release.

A
Userlevel 2
Badge

Ken, My sonos 1 and Sonos 2 apps were set to auto update so both are on latest versions.
Sonos 1 V11.14: Build 572150280 no updates avail on android.

I understand that I can uninstall these and load the .apk of older versions if I can find them.
But I shouldnt have to do this, but may have to to get these older sonso 2 devices working again.

My newer Gen 2 Play 1 setup fine with new Sonos 2 app. but my older devices are still disconected and unregistered.

 

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