**Class Action Lawsuit** We all deserve to recoup all hardware investment

M
Userlevel 7
Badge +2

If ever a situation called for a class action lawsuit, this is it:

  • Company sells customers expensive, multi-unit hardware systems
  • Tethers customers to a software ecosystem to use them effectively
  • Dramatically changes software into an auto-update environment
  • Unsuspecting customers lose access to extensive, core media sources and features that significantly diminish the value of their expensive hardware and/or make it untenable for usage they had every reason to believe they would continue to have
  • Customers wishing to continue meeting these essential needs forced to sell Company hardware that they had no intention of doing at a loss and buy competitor hardware.
  • Pattern of behavior by Company indicates that choices made to remove said functionality were part of an intentional, plan to damage the product experience of many users in favor of others.

Seriously. This would be like selling someone a car and then updating the operating system so that the steering wheels was controlled by AI instead of manual because there’s more profit there for the company.

Even if they resolve this issue with their awful software release, how much in damages are deserved for every customer for heir lost time and undue harm?

The store value of my hardware suite, which I had no intention of replacing is probably $7,000 - $8,000. How much do others have invested who believe they need to leave SONOS?

I am not someone who can start a class action lawsuit, but I’m sure there are people here who can, and I’d be at the front of the line to join it and recoup my losses. If you feel similarly, then bump up this thread so that SONOS is held accountable

193 replies

U
Userlevel 5
Badge

We need to organize all hardware-breaking issues caused by the new app and gather a list of people interested in participating in a class action lawsuit. I was about to start a new thread about this myself. Reports are pouring in from users who’ve spent thousands and had working hardware for years only to find their systems rendered inoperable by the app update.

 

To make matters worse, Sonos support has no chat agents available during business hours, and phone support is currently 70+ minutes to speak to someone (yesterday it was 50+ minutes). I submitted my research and evidence to The Verge to potentially cover this situation and expose Sonos’s questionable business practices. I am going to continue gathering evidence, and if anyone would like to participate in a class action suit please respond to this thread and I’ll follow up with you.

M
Userlevel 7
Badge +2

I am going to continue gathering evidence, and if anyone would like to participate in a class action suit please respond to this thread and I’ll follow up with you.

If there is a serious effort to get this lawsuit in place, I would gladly join it, so count me in. I wouldn’t be able to contribute in advance of that, but I’ve got a substantial financial commitment to SONOS’s hardware that they’ve significantly compromised.

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

 

Even if they resolve this issue with their awful software release, how much in damages are deserved for every customer for heir lost time and undue harm?

 

Undue harm ?  Apart from needlessly creating another thread for something that been raised on two other threads, let’s look at your ‘case’ in a little detail.

 

Clearly you’re not one of those unfortunate people who have ‘lost’ their system due to it becoming undiscoverable (and for whom I have sympathy) as you cite your losses as loss of core functionality.   
 

What ‘core’ functionally, exactly ?  Let’s see, alarms have been reinstated already.  Timers, queue management, and local library search are coming within 4 weeks.  ‘Core’ functionality might more realistic be determined as being able to stream media services and local sources which it sounds like you can do.   Certainly I can and every Sonos owner I know.  So while the app is buggy and incomplete it would be an incredulous stretch to argue that you have lost ‘core functionality’, and what ‘minor’ functionality you have lost is already slated for replacement. 
 

You are not ‘forced’ to sell the kit, just as you weren’t ‘forced’ to buy it in the first place.  And by the way, when you did buy it , it was a software driven ecosystem - as it has always been, with the option to enable or disable auto updates.  In effect there would have been every reasonable expectation that you knew what kind of system you were buying in the first place.   Oh and for the ‘intentional plan to damage said product’?  Seriously, I’m not even going to try to argue that nonsense.

Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.

Rhonny
Userlevel 7
Badge +14

@Andrew-s

Bravo!

The indignation and entitlement on here is astonishing. Some resilience, and perspective, is called for…

M
Userlevel 7
Badge +2

@Andrew-s : “Core’ functionality might more realistic be determined as being able to stream media services and local sources which it sounds like you can do.”

Actually, genius, I can’t. I’m not sure how you determined whether I could or not, but I have a local library of over 40,000 high resolution songs that Sonos has decided it no longer will recognize at all. This includes multiple playlists that I’ve created over a 20 year span to curate my music experience. Now? Can’t access them at all.

I’ve also used Sonos’s playlist feature to create additional playlists that I’ve been building over the last few years to complement those initial playlists. Because I trusted Sonos to protect those playlists that they insisted I could never export and save anywhere to have a back up. Well, they rolled out new software that deleted all of that, destroying core functionality I reasonably expected they would not delete.

These things would be the definition of “undue harm” for customers locked into 4- and 5-figure hardware investments.

And here’s the thing—have we heard from Sonos directly at all apologizing for this debacle? They have all of our email addresses. Where is the email saying “we’ve heard you and we’re sorry this software rollout was complete sh***?”

It doesn’t exist. Because they haven’t communicated any indication that they will solve these dramatic, core functionality problems. I guess I need to follow the boards non-stop to get the weekly rollout updates you seem to have?  Ah, I have a life to live—which used to include access to my, wait for it….music.

I could be wrong, but I also run a company that designs computer software and user interfaces. And when we screw up, we quickly contact the people who we offended, and we let them know. We got it wrong and that will fix it. For SONOS customers? Not so much.

And as for “The indignation and entitlement on here is astonishing. Some resilience, and perspective, is called for…” @Andrew-s, 

Entitlement use the way you’re describing it would be somebody assuming they are deserved something that they are mostly not, solely because of their status in life. 

I don’t need “resilience” here—I’ve overcome worse. What I need is the core purpose for which I paid extensively to commit to this ecosystem to work—or, at the bare minimum, proactive communication by the company when they sh*t the bed this badly rolling out software.

Call me crazy, but I believe like I’m entitled to continue accessing the music library in the system I’ve paid a ton of money to use without the company radically changing what it can and cannot do. And I also deserve to have the playlists that I created within their ecosystem, not get vaporized due to their own sh**** rollout.

if you feel that’s entitlement, well then I suggest you consider what level of abuse you’re willing to take from other people you give your money and trust to before you feel that you’re “entitled” to better treatment.

And as for “indignation,” it’s specifically because we have not heard a word directly to customers by Sonos that the indignation rises. And also why you make things like threats of class action lawsuits when you have zero agency in the situation, as we all lack right now. And I don’t need resilience so much as I deserve results from the company I’ve given my hard-earned money for based on their promise of certain “core functionality.”

That’s why you speak up when you’ve been a little effed-over and it’s not clear if the party that egged you over is taking your legitimate claims seriously.

Because, if they’re not saying anything, you have to assume they ignoring you. And the best way to not be ignored is to say something. And for a company that seems more invested in shareholder decisions, and such, the best way to get them to pay attention is by talking about the bottom line. Because otherwise we would’ve heard from them already.

Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

@Andrew-s : “Core’ functionality might more realistic be determined as being able to stream media services and local sources which it sounds like you can do.”

Actually, genius, I can’t. I’m not sure how you determined whether I could or not, but I have a local library of over 40,000 high resolution songs that Sonos has decided it no longer will recognize at all. This includes multiple playlists that I’ve created over a 20 year span to curate my music experience. Now? Can’t access them at all.

I’ve also used Sonos’s playlist feature to create additional playlists that I’ve been building over the last few years to complement those initial playlists. Because I trusted Sonos to protect those playlists that they insisted I could never export and save anywhere to have a back up. Well, they rolled out new software that deleted all of that, destroying core functionality I reasonably expected they would not delete.

These things would be the definition of “undue harm” for customers locked into 4- and 5-figure hardware investments.

And here’s the thing—have we heard from Sonos directly at all apologizing for this debacle? They have all of our email addresses. Where is the email saying “we’ve heard you and we’re sorry this software rollout was complete shite?”

It doesn’t exist. Because they haven’t communicated any indication that they will solve these dramatic, core functionality problems. I guess I need to follow the boards non-stop to get the weekly rollout updates you seem to have?  Ah, I have a life to live—which used to include access to my, wait for it….music.

I could be wrong, but I also run a company that designs computer software and user interfaces. And when we screw up, we quickly contact the people who we offended, and we let them know. We got it wrong and that will fix it. For SONOS customers? Not so much.

And as for “The indignation and entitlement on here is astonishing. Some resilience, and perspective, is called for…” @Andrew-s, 

Entitlement use the way you’re describing it would be somebody assuming they are deserved something that they are mostly not, solely because of their status in life. 

I don’t need “resilience” here—I’ve overcome worse. What I need is the core purpose for which I paid extensively to commit to this ecosystem to work—or, at the bare minimum, proactive communication by the company when they sh*t the bed this badly rolling out software.

Call me crazy, but I believe like I’m entitled to continue accessing the music library in the system I’ve paid a ton of money to use without the company radically changing what it can and cannot do. And I also deserve to have the playlists that I created within their ecosystem, not get vaporized due to their own shitty rollout.

if you feel that’s entitlement, well then I suggest you consider what level of abuse you’re willing to take from other people you give your money and trust to before you feel that you’re “entitled” to better treatment.

And as for “indignation,” it’s specifically because we have not heard a word directly to customers by Sonos that the indignation rises. And also why you make things like threats of class action lawsuits when you have zero agency in the situation, as we all lack right now. And I don’t need resilience so much as I deserve results from the company I’ve given my hard-earned money for based on their promise of certain “core functionality.”

That’s why you speak up when you’ve been a little effed-over and it’s not clear if the party that egged you over is taking your legitimate claims seriously.

Because, if they’re not saying anything, you have to assume they ignoring you. And the best way to not be ignored is to say something. And for a company that seems more invested in shareholder decisions, and such, the best way to get them to pay attention is by talking about the bottom line. Because otherwise we would’ve heard from them already.

I agree the best way not to be ignored is to say something.  Plenty of people have taken the opportunity to say something, and I wouldn’t deny them — or you — that right.

But having your say is not what you’re asking for here.  You want to be compensated.  The loss of the local library is not part of the new app (though configuration options are currently missing).  There are plenty of discussions elsewhere detailing how the insecure SMB1 protocol  has been removed, which has caused some to lose their libraries.  I do not know if this is the cause of your issues but if not, your experience isn’t what should be expected and maybe your first call should be to Sonos support and not a lawyer.  

And we have heard from Sonos — their communication has been poor I agree, but they have stated here  a timeline which brings parity (or something very close to it) with the old app in a series of updates up until mid-June.  I don’t need an apology from someone I’ve never met, and it would only be derided here as ‘not good enough’, or ‘not sincere’ anyway.

So considering your local library can be fixed (or is fixable)  your only real loss is a bunch of playlists.  That’s it — some lists of which order you want your songs played.  Well that’s a bummer for sure but it reflects a pretty skewed mindset if your first thought is to turn to litigation.  Maybe it’s a cultural thing.  But your losses —  your actual losses total nil.
 

S
Userlevel 2

People in here are arguing but can’t even understand where the other people are coming from and it’s mind blowing. SOME PEOPLES APPS WORK FINE, SOME DO NOT WORK AT ALL. MY APP DOES NOT WORK AT ALL, LISTENING TO ANY MUSIC ON ANY PRODUCT, PLUGGING INTO TV DOES NOT EVEN GIVE AUDIO FOR ME. PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT ISSUES LETS NOT ACT LIKE WE ARE ALL FACING THE SAME. 

Rhonny
Userlevel 7
Badge +14

“PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT ISSUES LETS NOT ACT LIKE WE ARE ALL FACING THE SAME.”

 

Another reason why a lawsuit is pointless.

M
Userlevel 7
Badge +2

The idea of talking lawsuit when you have no other option but to wait and see *if* and when someone who has significantly violated the promise of service you reasonably have is to get action.

And from what I can hear, a LOT of people are facing the same core problem I am: deletion of all SONOS playlists and a lack of connectivity to their primary music source: a local library.


I, like many, am legitimately concerned that SONOS either has decided that it’s all-in on streaming and screw people who own their music—or is so bad at software development that they’ll not be able to fix the problem that is tied to my $8K investment in the hardware that’s run by it. Thus: threaten class action lawsuit to get them to take honoring the terms of their implied agreement in selling thousands of people like me that very expensive hardware.

What makes their flawed software development so astonishing is that there are a litany of other meaningful problems that customers are experiencing on top of those two pretty severe ones. The chaos it’s causing is a spectacular face-plant from a company that’s been slowly alienating its most longstanding customers for some time now.

This is not like a sh**** software evolution where, if you don’t like the app anymore you can just switch. I am financially committed to a company that can’t seem to design software without significant flaws that any competent user acceptance testing process would prevent. Or, (less likely but not impossibly to believe) intentionally sought a bunch of these outcomes in its design.

And @Andrew-s, they have NOT directly communicated about this to me or to customers. I do not have the time to hunt through this board to see where SONOS said “everyone, we know this was a really bad rollout, we hear you, we apologize, and we’re fixing it. If you’d like specific updates on these fixes, go HERE (insert link).”


They should be communicating that directly to each of us, not burying their communication in a community board that the vast majority of customers never visit. It that basic customer service practice that hard to get right?

More important: don’t we all deserve better?

Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.

 

 

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

They should be communicating that directly to each of us, not burying their communication in a community board that the vast majority of customers never visit. It that basic customer service practice that hard to get right?

 

 

 

Yes that is something we can agree on ! 😋 it’s obvious that the fall-out from the app release was totally unexpected and they are not recovering well. The AMA was not handled well, and you can only hope that lessons can be learned.  I know the great refrain on here is ‘I’m selling my kit’, and that only some of this is said for effect.  I’m not, as I bought it for a reason and that reason remains valid so I’m sure (hope?) for Sonos to dig themselves out of this hole.  The alternative is that everybody’s kit becomes worthless.  

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

Hi MattyJake,

 

No question this situation begs for legal action. Fraud is fraud. Customers were tricked into updating an app when the update was clearly not ready. No notice was given. Purchasers of Sonos products are not getting what they paid for. Sonos has advertised its products to be used in a certain way, which is not true right now. A good place to start would be for someone to interest the Google attorneys into making a referral. State laws differ dramatically, any troll on here stating unequivocally that no action will work is nothing more than a troll. 

The law continues to change and evolve. Many states (Massachusetts!!) have strong consumer protection statutes. Corporations that behave in an unfair way can and are often held accountable. Even if Sonos was unaware that its software was defective, it certainly received  notice as soon as it rolled it out. the fact that Sonos has refused to rollback the app until its fixed may very well be an unfair business practice. (Sonos has an office in MA.) 

Sonos told you during the AMA that it is well aware of potential legal culpability. Why do you think each question was most likely vetted by attorneys before they answered in an often vague and unintelligible manner? 

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Sonos told you during the AMA that it is well aware of potential legal culpability. 

Well I wasn’t paying the closest attention during the AMA as it was a shambles.  But did they say this?  I mean did they categorically state this, with regards the new app?  Can you copy this in, please as I don’t recall this.  Thanks.  

jgatie

Sonos told you during the AMA that it is well aware of potential legal culpability. 

Well I wasn’t paying the closest attention during the AMA as it was a shambles.  But did they say this?  I mean did they categorically state this, with regards the new app?  Can you copy this in, please as I don’t recall this.  Thanks.  

 

No, they didn’t state this.  The poster is inferring this from the mean time between answers being due to (in the poster’s opinion) the need to consult with lawyers.  In other words, it’s a WAG. 

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Sonos told you during the AMA that it is well aware of potential legal culpability. 

Well I wasn’t paying the closest attention during the AMA as it was a shambles.  But did they say this?  I mean did they categorically state this, with regards the new app?  Can you copy this in, please as I don’t recall this.  Thanks.  

 

No, they didn’t state this.  The poster is inferring this from the mean time between answers being due to (in the poster’s opinion) the need to consult with lawyers.  In other words, it’s a WAG. 


I didn’t think so.  Sounds like unhappyowner is guilty of terminological inexactitude.  

melvimbe

I would recommend you go talk to a lawyer about this.  They can tell you that you have no case or refer you to a lawyer that deals with class action cases like this.  The new lawyer can then tell you have no case, maybe tell you that you need to gather more complaints and evidence of damage, or that they will do that work for you, possibly for a fee.

Either way, I don’t think Sonos is really too concerned about legal action, they would/should be much more concerned about customer relations and impact on sales, until they get something official from a law firm.

Danny
Bumper

I would recommend you go talk to a lawyer about this.  They can tell you that you have no case or refer you to a lawyer that deals with class action cases like this.  The new lawyer can then tell you have no case, maybe tell you that you need to gather more complaints and evidence of damage, or that they will do that work for you, possibly for a fee.

Either way, I don’t think Sonos is really too concerned about legal action, they would/should be much more concerned about customer relations and impact on sales, until they get something official from a law firm.

Are you a lawyer?

R
Userlevel 2

Class action?  Sign me up.

I am angry to have lost the functionality that i purchased this equipment for

Play5 x 2

Play3 x 2

Play1 x 4

Subwoofer x 1

Soundbar x 1

Comes to a bit of money for equipment that no longer serves the purpose it was purchased for (excepting the soundbar)

G
Userlevel 1

I bought my £2500 sonos system primarily to play my own music library plus the occaisional radio station. In one fair swoop, Sonos have deprived me of the service that I paid for, I can no longer connect to my library on either my PC or my ios phone, i dont know how things work in the US, but wherever you are that is a case of not providing a paid for service,

If I were in the US id be jumping up and down as well,

Good luck to you

M
Userlevel 4
Badge

Count me in. Adding to this thread to get updates. 
 

im at a roam, 4 play 1s, 2 beams, 1 arc, 2 subs, 2 era 300s, 1 era 100. 
 

Most are completely unusable as I am stuck with a “sign in as system owner” bug that no one is able to help me with.  

Ken_Griffiths

Count me out of any ‘class action’ - I have core functionality. Sonos rooms are present, all my services are there and working. I can see and play my locally held NAS library. Voice services (Alexa in my case) are fine. All speakers are working, both individually and in groups, pairs etc.

I can even use a multitude of other Apps/services to play audio to my speakers using…

  • Airplay
  • Direct Control (Amazon/SMAPI)
  • Bluetooth
  • DLNA
  • TV Apps

Yes, I’m a bit ’miffed’ that some previous functionality I sometimes used in the Sonos App, such as ‘play next’ ‘add to end of queue’ and queue editing etc. are not in the current release, however by all accounts, the majority of that looks like it’s in the pipeline to be returned and I still have those features in various other MSP Apps anyway and that’s without having to resort to 3rd-party Apps that can mimic a majority of the previous Sonos App’s functionality.

M
Userlevel 2
Badge

I’ve got a significant amount invested in Sonos hardware (probably around $5000 - more than $1500 just this year and been buying for about 11 years. it is totally ****** at this point and as important as music is to my daily routine, I can’t play or update my home library without upgrading to this POS interface on android. 

add my name to the class action lawsuit ASAP; while @Ken_Griffiths may be happy with his ipad version, a great many of us on Android and PC are absolutely not satisfied. WHERE ARE THE TECHNOLOGY ARTICLES COVERING THIS DISASTER?

 

Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.

Local Libraries are why I purchased Sonos and spent $5000 on about 25 devices so far in 13 years.
A
Userlevel 2

Hi MattyJake,

 

No question this situation begs for legal action. Fraud is fraud. Customers were tricked into updating an app when the update was clearly not ready. No notice was given. Purchasers of Sonos products are not getting what they paid for. Sonos has advertised its products to be used in a certain way, which is not true right now. A good place to start would be for someone to interest the Google attorneys into making a referral. State laws differ dramatically, any troll on here stating unequivocally that no action will work is nothing more than a troll. 

The law continues to change and evolve. Many states (Massachusetts!!) have strong consumer protection statutes. Corporations that behave in an unfair way can and are often held accountable. Even if Sonos was unaware that its software was defective, it certainly received  notice as soon as it rolled it out. the fact that Sonos has refused to rollback the app until its fixed may very well be an unfair business practice. (Sonos has an office in MA.) 

Sonos told you during the AMA that it is well aware of potential legal culpability. Why do you think each question was most likely vetted by attorneys before they answered in an often vague and unintelligible manner? 

Actually never “upgraded” anything. They autoupdate it without my permission. I have very complicvated system which stop woirking all together ! spent 3 hours of my time with their stupid CS and will probbaly have to pay $1000s to someone figure out how to make all work again. 

 

I do not understand legality of “upgraded” which render my system to non working status and requing pay for sofisticated service plus 10s of hours of my time which is $250 per hour (W2 confirmed) . so they can change it again in the month or 2 and what? i will have to pay $1000s again?

 

Lets sue them

jgatie

Actually never “upgraded” anything. They autoupdate it without my permission. I have very complicvated system which stop woirking all together ! spent 3 hours of my time with their stupid CS and will probbaly have to pay $1000s to someone figure out how to make all work again. 

 

I do not understand legality of “upgraded” which render my system to non working status and requing pay for sofisticated service plus 10s of hours of my time which is $250 per hour (W2 confirmed) . so they can change it again in the month or 2 and what? i will have to pay $1000s again?

 

Lets sue them

 

Who are you paying $250 an hour?  Certainly not Sonos, they don’t charge for support.  If you tried to contact Sonos and they asked you to pay an hourly fee, you contacted a scam site. 

A
Userlevel 2

Actually never “upgraded” anything. They autoupdate it without my permission. I have very complicvated system which stop woirking all together ! spent 3 hours of my time with their stupid CS and will probbaly have to pay $1000s to someone figure out how to make all work again. 

 

I do not understand legality of “upgraded” which render my system to non working status and requing pay for sofisticated service plus 10s of hours of my time which is $250 per hour (W2 confirmed) . so they can change it again in the month or 2 and what? i will have to pay $1000s again?

 

Lets sue them

 

Who are you paying $250 an hour?  Certainly not Sonos, they don’t charge for support.  If you tried to contact Sonos and they asked you to pay an hourly fee, you contacted a scam site. 

who am I? i am CEO of the company. And by the way we are asset liqvIdators so i am pretty familiar with what is called FIRST SALE DOCTRINE, dealt with amny companies trying to prevent us from selling their hardware. Alway win. They can restrict ONLY software sale, not a hardware sale

They violated a law and will be sued for sure

 

It is not a software which is in essense a “license :” instead of the product. It can’t be sold or etc without their permission. They can change software as p[er any standart license agrement, BUT hardware is a different story. once you buy it , you RETAIN ownership of the hardware and they have no rights to change your settings without your expressed permision

 

many compare it to PAID service, like DirectTV for example, it is not , since you purchased HARDWARE and software is free to just control it, they have no rights to change to remove control from me or you

 

Naturally they will not easily pay for my time and 1000s for technicians to fix my system, but may be forced to in legal process

 

 

jgatie

. . . backs out of the thread . . . very slowly. 😬

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