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**Class Action Lawsuit** We all deserve to recoup all hardware investment

If ever a situation called for a class action lawsuit, this is it:

  • Company sells customers expensive, multi-unit hardware systems
  • Tethers customers to a software ecosystem to use them effectively
  • Dramatically changes software into an auto-update environment
  • Unsuspecting customers lose access to extensive, core media sources and features that significantly diminish the value of their expensive hardware and/or make it untenable for usage they had every reason to believe they would continue to have
  • Customers wishing to continue meeting these essential needs forced to sell Company hardware that they had no intention of doing at a loss and buy competitor hardware.
  • Pattern of behavior by Company indicates that choices made to remove said functionality were part of an intentional, plan to damage the product experience of many users in favor of others.

Seriously. This would be like selling someone a car and then updating the operating system so that the steering wheels was controlled by AI instead of manual because there’s more profit there for the company.

Even if they resolve this issue with their awful software release, how much in damages are deserved for every customer for heir lost time and undue harm?

The store value of my hardware suite, which I had no intention of replacing is probably $7,000 - $8,000. How much do others have invested who believe they need to leave SONOS?

I am not someone who can start a class action lawsuit, but I’m sure there are people here who can, and I’d be at the front of the line to join it and recoup my losses. If you feel similarly, then bump up this thread so that SONOS is held accountable

226 replies

Bumper

Actually never “upgraded” anything. They autoupdate it without my permission. I have very complicvated system which stop woirking all together ! spent 3 hours of my time with their stupid CS and will probbaly have to pay $1000s to someone figure out how to make all work again. 

 

I do not understand legality of “upgraded” which render my system to non working status and requing pay for sofisticated service plus 10s of hours of my time which is $250 per hour (W2 confirmed) . so they can change it again in the month or 2 and what? i will have to pay $1000s again?

 

Lets sue them

 

Who are you paying $250 an hour?  Certainly not Sonos, they don’t charge for support.  If you tried to contact Sonos and they asked you to pay an hourly fee, you contacted a scam site. 

who am I? i am CEO of the company. And by the way we are asset liqvIdators so i am pretty familiar with what is called FIRST SALE DOCTRINE, dealt with amny companies trying to prevent us from selling their hardware. Alway win. They can restrict ONLY software sale, not a hardware sale

They violated a law and will be sued for sure

 

It is not a software which is in essense a “license :” instead of the product. It can’t be sold or etc without their permission. They can change software as p[er any standart license agrement, BUT hardware is a different story. once you buy it , you RETAIN ownership of the hardware and they have no rights to change your settings without your expressed permision

 

many compare it to PAID service, like DirectTV for example, it is not , since you purchased HARDWARE and software is free to just control it, they have no rights to change to remove control from me or you

 

Naturally they will not easily pay for my time and 1000s for technicians to fix my system, but may be forced to in legal process

 

 

The auto update is a setting in your phone in your app. I mean you control whether this happens or not,  not Sonos. Can you sue if you control this?

 

IMO Sonos misrepresented and were deceptive about the state of the app, saying that things would be the same as before when they weren’t. Whether you can sue for that you might have a better idea  

 

 

A
Userlevel 2

Actually never “upgraded” anything. They autoupdate it without my permission. I have very complicvated system which stop woirking all together ! spent 3 hours of my time with their stupid CS and will probbaly have to pay $1000s to someone figure out how to make all work again. 

 

I do not understand legality of “upgraded” which render my system to non working status and requing pay for sofisticated service plus 10s of hours of my time which is $250 per hour (W2 confirmed) . so they can change it again in the month or 2 and what? i will have to pay $1000s again?

 

Lets sue them

 

Who are you paying $250 an hour?  Certainly not Sonos, they don’t charge for support.  If you tried to contact Sonos and they asked you to pay an hourly fee, you contacted a scam site. 

who am I? i am CEO of the company. And by the way we are asset liqvIdators so i am pretty familiar with what is called FIRST SALE DOCTRINE, dealt with amny companies trying to prevent us from selling their hardware. Alway win. They can restrict ONLY software sale, not a hardware sale

They violated a law and will be sued for sure

 

It is not a software which is in essense a “license :” instead of the product. It can’t be sold or etc without their permission. They can change software as p[er any standart license agrement, BUT hardware is a different story. once you buy it , you RETAIN ownership of the hardware and they have no rights to change your settings without your expressed permision

 

many compare it to PAID service, like DirectTV for example, it is not , since you purchased HARDWARE and software is free to just control it, they have no rights to change to remove control from me or you

 

Naturally they will not easily pay for my time and 1000s for technicians to fix my system, but may be forced to in legal process

 

 

The auto update is a setting in your phone in your app. I mean you control whether this happens or not,  not Sonos. Can you sue if you control this?

 

IMO Sonos misrepresented and were deceptive about the state of the app, saying that things would be the same as before when they weren’t. Whether you can sue for that you might have a better idea  

 

 

well, i never enabled anything and never even purchased a system myself. It was a part of very sofisticated remodeling in penthouse i bought 2 years ago. everything was working fine for 2 years. Now the whole thing is dead and i will naturally will try to hold them accountable for it and So now i have to hire a guy who can figure out how to fix it all

 

it is all tied up to TV, amps/speakers and etc

 

why shall i invest MY time and money to accomodate their changes which deprive me from use of the system?? 

 

what if they decide again to update it somehow so i will again have to spent 1000s? 

A

 

 

Lets sue them

It’s a great rallying cry, and don’t get me wrong, if you think you have a case then go for it.  

This thread (and half a dozen similar ones) periodically bubble up to the top of the list when someone, like your good self, adds their name to the list.  
But therein lies the problem.  Simply adding in your name or intent doesn’t in itself amount to a lawsuit.  Somebody actually has to launch it.  Otherwise the rallying cry starts to sound a little more silly the more people who shout it but then don’t do anything.  
I’m not being dismissive m, I’m simply saying somebody has to do more than simply say ‘me too’.  
Who will be the one to take it on ?

 

 

Ken_Griffiths

Strange that some ‘others’, who disabled both their firmware and software auto-update features are still running their systems on S2 and no forced-update was used there by Sonos on their systems?

My Son’s own Sonos system at his home is perhaps proof of that as he opted to not auto-install the firmware and has declined the offer to update his S2 Sonos App.

Also I don’t quite understand why some peoples systems ended up broken and yet my 20+ Sonos device system is all showing and working okay?… even the 18+ installed music services are working/playing here - post update, including the local SMBv2 NAS local library. 

Maybe a broken system is not entirely all down to the Sonos update after all - it must be quite difficult to substantiate that, when others, myself included, did not face any upgrade ‘blues’. 

The only ’issue’ I had (apart from the widely mentioned missing ‘bits’) was the App seemed slow to open from a fully closed state. My system running with S2 controllers on iPhone/iPad had an App launch time of approx. 10 seconds, or less, from a fully closed state. Post update, that increased on my iPad (primary controller) to 16 seconds, or thereabouts.

I too was blaming the Sonos App/update for that delay. Anyhow, long story short, for the past two days I chose to spend time optimising my local WiFi 6AX mesh network and set about checking the Sonos product SNR levels and changing some things around to improve signal strength. It took a while to sort and I did move some speakers to achieve a desired outcome and moved them around on the local subnet too, fixing them high up with static IP addresses and ensuring that most were using the 5Ghz band where possible, with minimal interference.

In the Sonos Household itself, I also checked the Home-Screen ‘pinned categories’ and shortcut opening times and removed the half dozen links that were ‘letting the side down’ - mostly real old playlists and podcasts etc.

Anyhow I got the new Sonos App opening time down to less than 7 seconds just doing that small piece of work… (I grabbed a screen-capture video and converted that - see attached). And just to also add, I’m running all through a cloud based network security subscription service, so that maybe slowing things down a little too, but I’ve not tinkered with that yet to see if I can make things even quicker. Perhaps I should also consider upgrading my iPad aswell, which is now over 4 years old.

Anyhow maybe some problems don’t all lie with the Sonos App update - there might be other explanations, so before taking up legal action, I would perhaps just ensure that all other possibilities have been explored and eliminated first.

3 Attachments
A
Userlevel 2

 

 

Lets sue them

It’s a great rallying cry, and don’t get me wrong, if you think you have a case then go for it.  

This thread (and half a dozen similar ones) periodically bubble up to the top of the list when someone, like your good self, adds their name to the list.  
But therein lies the problem.  Simply adding in your name or intent doesn’t in itself amount to a lawsuit.  Somebody actually has to launch it.  Otherwise the rallying cry starts to sound a little more silly the more people who shout it but then don’t do anything.  
I’m not being dismissive m, I’m simply saying somebody has to do more than simply say ‘me too’.  
Who will be the one to take it on ?

 

 

well, i am going to call around to some law firms i know.. will see 

 

perhaps others will do so too

 

 

A
Userlevel 2

Strange that some ‘others’, who disabled both their firmware and software auto-update features are still running their systems on S2 and no forced-update was used there by Sonos on their systems?

My Son’s own Sonos system at his home is perhaps proof of that as he opted to not auto-install the firmware and has declined the offer to update his S2 Sonos App.

Also I don’t quite understand why some peoples systems ended up broken and yet my 20+ Sonos device system is all showing and working okay?… even the 18+ installed music services are working/playing here - post update, including the local SMBv2 NAS local library. 

Maybe a broken system is not entirely all down to the Sonos update after all - it must be quite difficult to substantiate that, when others, myself included, did not face any upgrade ‘blues’. 

The only ’issue’ I had (apart from the widely mentioned missing ‘bits’) was the App seemed slow to open from a fully closed state. My system running with S2 controllers on iPhone/iPad had an App launch time of approx. 10 seconds, or less, from a fully closed state. Post update, that increased on my iPad (primary controller) to 16 seconds, or thereabouts.

I too was blaming the Sonos App/update for that delay. Anyhow, long story short, for the past two days I chose to so end time optimise]ing my local WiFi 6AX mesh network and set about checking the Sonos product SNR levels and changing some things around to improve signal strength. It took a while to sort and I did move some speakers to achieve a desired outcome and moved them around on the local subnet too, fixing them high up with static IP addresses and ensuring that most were using the 5Ghz band where possible, with minimal interference.

In the Sonos Household itself, I also checked the Home-Screen ‘pinned categories’ and shortcut opening times and removed the half dozen links that were ‘letting the side down’ - mostly real old playlists and podcasts etc.

Anyhow I got the new Sonos App opening time down to less than 7 seconds just doing that small piece of work… (I grabbed a screen-capture video and converted that - see attached). And just to also add, I’m running all through a cloud based network security subscription service, so that maybe slowing things down a little too, but I’ve not tinkered with that yet to see if I can make things even quicker. Perhaps I should also consider upgrading my iPad aswell, which is now over 4 years old.

Anyhow maybe some problems don’t all lie with the Sonos App update - there might be other explanations, so before taking up legal action, I would perhaps just ensure that all other possibilities have been explored and eliminated first.

well, it is way more complicated in my case. sonos is a part of larger AV system and all was programmed and interconnected like multichannel Niles amps, Jameston speakers and etc

 

as per their guidance i rebooted and erase all setting on it and now it is like mosty dead.

 

i see it is violation of my rights. they have no busioness to chnge it without my concent on hardware side and render it useless

 

i spent 3 hours with their CS yesterday, 2.5 hours today

 

god knows how much more

 

Bumper

 

Also I don’t quite understand why some peoples systems ended up broken and yet my 20+ Sonos device system is all showing and working okay?… even the 18+ installed music services are working/playing here - post update, including the local SMBv2 NAS local library. 

 

It’s because the app is a buggy POS. Surprised you don’t understand that yet Ken. 
 

FWIW there have been some threads here about people claiming forced updates. I think they or someone in their house made a mistake, but posts like this keep popping up 

https://www.reddit.com/r/sonos/s/gpWBf4miMo

A
Userlevel 2

 

Also I don’t quite understand why some peoples systems ended up broken and yet my 20+ Sonos device system is all showing and working okay?… even the 18+ installed music services are working/playing here - post update, including the local SMBv2 NAS local library. 

 

It’s because the app is a buggy POS. Surprised you don’t understand that yet Ken. 

well, thank y

 

but, it is actually bringing a bigger issue which i want to talk to my friend who is a general partner in 700+ attorney firm

 

how is a 3rd party company can control my life and disable / enable things which i paid for and distrupt my well beign? this is not just some sort of privacy issues.. this is a direct violation of consumer right and irst doctrine of sale

 

equipment i giot is MINE and they have no rights to make any changes to it unless it is EXPRESSED/IMPLIED agreed by me

 

 

Ken_Griffiths

 

Also I don’t quite understand why some peoples systems ended up broken and yet my 20+ Sonos device system is all showing and working okay?… even the 18+ installed music services are working/playing here - post update, including the local SMBv2 NAS local library. 

 

It’s because the app is a buggy POS. Surprised you don’t understand that yet Ken. 

The thing is @bumper, the new App is not always the issue for everyone - it certainly works ok for me - it plays the chosen audio to each of my rooms/groups. I can adjust volume, skip tracks etc. It doesn’t crash and I can certainly wait for any App updates, to put back the missing things that have been widely mentioned, some of which, I may not personally use all that often, anyway.

I don’t have missing Alarms and my local library works fine and is always present in the App… I appreciate you have mentioned that’s not the case for you, but I suspect you may have some local issues that may need to be addressed, either with, or without, the help of Sonos Support. Your standpoint is from your experience and I appreciate that. I’m just not facing the same issues as yourself. 

I saw someone mention recently they could not install a Sonos Roam on their system - I tried that this evening and it works here. Someone also mentioned they could not add Alexa to a device - again that worked for me on a Sonos Move - so not everything posted in the community is down to the new App - there can sometimes perhaps be other reasons for some of the reported issues too.

J

I’m in.  The forced product product update today took away soundbar and arc functionality with TVs.  #done.  90mins to talk to tech support.  No agents available to chat.  #done

B
Userlevel 1

I won't pretend to know whether there is a colorable argument for legal action against Sonos for this terrible update. As for me, I'll be tossing my Sonos speakers into the Potomac River and never giving them another dime.

T
Userlevel 2
Badge

Count me in. How do I contact you?

K
Userlevel 5
Badge +3

Let me interject a short note of reality to this thread.

  1. Anybody can sue over anything, to include those on this thread.
  2. A Judge would decide whether to grant class action status, not anyone on this thread.
  3. A jury would determine if said lawsuit prevails, not anyone on this thread.  I’m presuming anybody on this thread would be preemptively dismissed from serving on the jury. 
K
Userlevel 5
Badge +3

Personally, I’d love a lawsuit against Sonos.  Discovery is a wonderful and powerful tool, I’d love to know what Sonos knew about this app before they rolled it out.  

G

 

Also I don’t quite understand why some peoples systems ended up broken and yet my 20+ Sonos device system is all showing and working okay?… even the 18+ installed music services are working/playing here - post update, including the local SMBv2 NAS local library. 

 

It’s because the app is a buggy POS. Surprised you don’t understand that yet Ken. 
 

FWIW there have been some threads here about people claiming forced updates. I think they or someone in their house made a mistake, but posts like this keep popping up 

https://www.reddit.com/r/sonos/s/gpWBf4miMo

I have an ipad.  In the Appstore, the Sonos icon is yellow.  The icon on the homepage changed automatically to black.

No humans were involved in this behaviour. 

Forced?  I don't know but Spooky? Yes! 

🎵 First We Take Manhattan Then Berlin 🎵
R
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

 

Also I don’t quite understand why some peoples systems ended up broken and yet my 20+ Sonos device system is all showing and working okay?… even the 18+ installed music services are working/playing here - post update, including the local SMBv2 NAS local library. 

 

It’s because the app is a buggy POS. Surprised you don’t understand that yet Ken. 
 

FWIW there have been some threads here about people claiming forced updates. I think they or someone in their house made a mistake, but posts like this keep popping up 

https://www.reddit.com/r/sonos/s/gpWBf4miMo

I have an ipad.  In the Appstore, the Sonos icon is yellow.  The icon on the homepage changed automatically to black.

No humans were involved in this behaviour. 

Forced?  I don't know but Spooky? Yes! 

 

Not that spooky, surely? Unless you’ve specifically turned off auto updating for certain apps, all your phone and iPad apps will update on their own. Sometimes you’ll go into the App Store and there will be apps showing Update, but mostly that’s because those have yet to be done automatically. They are updated overnight and/or while devices are on charge.

G

 

Also I don’t quite understand why some peoples systems ended up broken and yet my 20+ Sonos device system is all showing and working okay?… even the 18+ installed music services are working/playing here - post update, including the local SMBv2 NAS local library. 

 

It’s because the app is a buggy POS. Surprised you don’t understand that yet Ken. 
 

FWIW there have been some threads here about people claiming forced updates. I think they or someone in their house made a mistake, but posts like this keep popping up 

https://www.reddit.com/r/sonos/s/gpWBf4miMo

I have an ipad.  In the Appstore, the Sonos icon is yellow.  The icon on the homepage changed automatically to black.

No humans were involved in this behaviour. 

Forced?  I don't know but Spooky? Yes! 

 

Not that spooky, surely? Unless you’ve specifically turned off auto updating for certain apps, all your phone and iPad apps will update on their own. Sometimes you’ll go into the App Store and there will be apps showing Update, but mostly that’s because those have yet to be done automatically. They are updated overnight and/or while devices are on charge.

Uh-huh... auto update set to off.  Same happened with Android - the black Angel appears.  I haven't allowed auto update on any device for years. Maybe not spooky, but how about paranormal(?!). 

🎵 First We Take Manhattan Then Berlin 🎵
Ken_Griffiths

Uh-huh... auto update set to off.  Same happened with Android - the black Angel appears.  I haven't allowed auto update on any device for years. Maybe not spooky, but how about paranormal(?!). 

Just from reading the things mentioned in your post here, it seems you did not turn off the update. There are two sides to an update. The speaker firmware and the Sonos App software - they go hand in hand. The latest App needs the latest firmware for all to work and vice versa.

So nothing is achieved by switching off just one of these things only… as is mentioned repeatedly in this community, especially during the S1/S2 separation.

Once again the Sonos updates are not forced on anyone, they’re entirely optional. My Son is happily still using the S2 App with his products on the older version of the firmware. He has chosen to wait until some further features are added to the new App before installing the updates.

G

Believe it or not... Years of multi-device & software installs.  Both levels of auto set to off - it's the first thing I do with any setup if it's available (eg. Some Echo devices can't be 'protected'). Anyway, makes no difference as the Sonos universe is definitely black and there's only a one-way ticket. 

Otherwise, the app such as it is (especially the newly intrusive useless Headphone option - I don't have one & won't ever buy one) works somewhat sluggishly for me.   How I would feel about the permanent absence of my SMBv1 music library, if I had had a big curated collection, is a moot point.  And as far as I can tell, without investing time, effort and possibly cash, there's still no way to install / specify a smbv2 device using the app as it is now.

Overall, I'm still left with a bitter taste over all this farago. 

🎵 First We Take Manhattan Then Berlin 🎵
P
Userlevel 1


 

when can we expect an actual update? And no, “in the coming weeks” isn’t good enough. This is effectively planned obsolescence. Having just moved house I can’t update the network rendering them absolutely useless 
 

I really want to know how on earth this update was rolled out? Whoever approved the roll out needs to be sacked. 

P
Userlevel 1

Personally, I’d love a lawsuit against Sonos.  Discovery is a wonderful and powerful tool, I’d love to know what Sonos knew about this app before they rolled it out.  

Same here 100%. Hope they lose a lot of their customers for it too. Not too long ago Apple was nailed for planned obsolescence this doesn’t feel too dissimilar 

K
Userlevel 5
Badge +3

I also see comparisons to Bed Bath and Beyond.  They revamped and did away with their famed coupons which their most loyal customers loved.  They did eventually bring them back but too late, they are bankrupt now.  Question is how many of their most loyal customers will Sonos lose over the new app and slow response to fix?  Companies always pay a price for alienating their most loyal customers.  A successful business adds customers doesn’t lose them with the hope of finding replacements.  We will see the impact of this disaster over the next year.  Do their customers forget about this in time and move on, or do they not forget and move away?  

P
Userlevel 1

I also see comparisons to Bed Bath and Beyond.  They revamped and did away with their famed coupons which their most loyal customers loved.  They did eventually bring them back but too late, they are bankrupt now.  Question is how many of their most loyal customers will Sonos lose over the new app and slow response to fix?  Companies always pay a price for alienating their most loyal customers.  A successful business adds customers doesn’t lose them with the hope of finding replacements.  We will see the impact of this disaster over the next year.  Do their customers forget about this in time and move on, or do they not forget and move away?  

The whole fiasco seems completely unnecessary and avoidable - test the system before punting an update on live products? Complete incompetence, not exactly rocket science that they need to review their workings before submitting it. 

jgatie

The whole fiasco seems completely unnecessary and avoidable - test the system before punting an update on live products? Complete incompetence, not exactly rocket science that they need to review their workings before submitting it. 

 

I’m pretty sure it was tested, and there are accounts from beta testers that said it was found lacking.  This feedback was obviously overridden by a need to support the new hardware slated for the end of the fiscal year in June.  That’s not the developers doing, that’s a decision made well above them. 

K
Userlevel 5
Badge +3

Jgatie, I agree, probably not incompetent developers, but definitely an incompetent CEO.  

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