End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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4256 replies

U
Userlevel 2

^ This looks like a great way to go back to conventional components and still have networking!!  Any thoughts?

 I too am done with expensive “smart” anythings in my home.

 

3 Connect Amps 

4 Play 5s

2 Connects

 

 

 

 

 

 

U
Userlevel 3

So after sending this, I shockingly received this reply from Patrick. I believe they have heard us. I will try to calm down and take a couple of weeks to see what happens.

 

From: Patrick Spence <patrick.spence@sonos.com>

To:xxxxxx

 

Jan 24 at 11:50 PM

 

Mr. Hedrick,

 

Thanks for being an early adopter. My apologies for the mistake here, and I am not proud. I'm sorry that didn't come across in my email.

 

I understand & respect your decision. Thank you for having been a customer & sorry for letting you down.

 

Sincerely,

Patrick

 

I’m not clear on what’s made you feel better about the situation in that message (though I agree it’s surprising that you got a personal reply at all)? All he’s said is sorry (again) and that he can see why you didn’t buy more units. Nothing that suggests a change of course, or even that they’re trying to find one.

It almost literally says ‘it sucks to be you’...

 

I don’t feel better and i’m pissed over it. I do however feel like we’ve been heard and they understand the scale of pissing off their entire customer base. All we can do now is wait and see what (if anything) happens as a result. Beyond that, continuing to stress over it will not yield me anything.

 

What you’ve been told is we understand you’re not happy with our decision and we’ll accept losing a customer. They expected this and feel they’ll make up for your loss with new customers.

N
Userlevel 5
Badge +1

Perhaps when Sonos stop selling a product they need to pull all the supply out of their supply chain?

This would have been the morale thing to do. Instead they sold physically identical products with the same name and the same price - only internally some were destined to become paperweights in only a few short years. 

J

And now what?

Bose SoundTouch or Denon HEOS?

Please help me decide.

H
Userlevel 1

I cannot believe Sonos still wants to pull the rug out.  I get stuff not getting updates anymore but saying that I won’t be able to use the speaker with “new stuff” is just plain wrong.  I have thousands invested into Sonos and i was looking into buying more.  This makes me hesitate?  What will happen in 5 years.  will I have to upgrade again?  This whole thing is wrong on Sonos part. 

chickentender

And now what?

Bose SoundTouch or Denon HEOS?

Please help me decide.

Both have the exact same risks right along with them. If you’re going to fracture your system, just make sure it’s more modular going forward. Or just sit tight, listen to music and see what happens. There’s little need to swap everything out unless you just think it’s fun and have the money. Nothing is going to explode.

chickentender

I cannot believe Sonos still wants to pull the rug out.  I get stuff not getting updates anymore but saying that I won’t be able to use the speaker with “new stuff” is just plain wrong.  I have thousands invested into Sonos and i was looking into buying more.  This makes me hesitate?  What will happen in 5 years.  will I have to upgrade again?  This whole thing is wrong on Sonos part. 

What do you mean by “new stuff”?

W
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Having purchased a Move last week with a 15-day return window, I started intently researching alternatives to decide whether to return the thing and cut my losses. There are way more alternatives than I thought. I’m cutting my losses.

For an alternative, it’s probably smart to look for one of two things:

(1) a long-time audio component brand because it’s less likely to abandon the core functionality to compete with Amazon and Google AI components, or

(2) a wireless standard that various brands build into their components because it provides more options and the software piece is modular.

Final three:

  • Heos / Denon Home:
    • Pros - Sound United (owner of Polk, Marantz, and other audio brands) recently bought it and started integrated Heos into its other brands. Meanwhile, Denon announced Denon Home, a line of wireless speakers with Heos and other wireless compatibility. Looks like the future is bright here. These guys make audio components and won’t get that twisted.
    • Cons - the controller app looks mediocre right now (but there will probably be more resources put into that side now).
  • Audio Pro:
    • Pros - closest to the original Sonos model. Gets incredible reviews and awards across the board. Great range of options. A speaker company with a history.
    • Cons - single-company ecosystem again. Availability in the US is sparse.
  • Airplay 2:
    • Pros - There are so many speaker options. It’s easy. Functionality is separate from smart features because it’s a standard added to other speaker features.
    • Cons - [Edit] Not Android friendly.

There’s also Yamaha MusicCast, but it offers limited options and its future in the market seems questionable with no foothold. Then there’s Play-Fi, which looks promising but still fledgling with no strong partners. B&O looks really cool, but I can’t see the value at those prices.

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

I’m not sure if Sonos have considered this will really damage their ability to sell “old stock” in the future.

Traditionally when a new version of a product was released, they continued to sell the previous version for a very slight discount.

This presumably hinged on the fact that you were choosing between two units that would work as long as each other, but that the newer one might have some slightly fancier new feature.

For example the change over between the Play:1 and the One.

If you watch any videos online where a reviewer helps you choose between the two, they never say “Don’t buy the Play:1 you’ll only get 5 years out of it before Sonos brick it”.

chickentender

 

  • Airplay 2:
    • Pros - There are so many speaker options. It’s easy. Functionality is separate from smart features because it’s a standard added to other speaker features.
    • Cons - There  appears to be no Connect (or Port) equivalent to add existing stereo equipment (no more Airport Express.

Bluesound Node 2i and Powernode 2i offer Airplay 2 to existing audio setups.

To your other points, you’re bang on. 
Audio first.
Standards.
Modularity.

That’s the future.

W
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

 

  • Airplay 2:
    • Pros - There are so many speaker options. It’s easy. Functionality is separate from smart features because it’s a standard added to other speaker features.
    • Cons - There  appears to be no Connect (or Port) equivalent to add existing stereo equipment (no more Airport Express.

Bluesound Node 2i and Powernode 2i offer Airplay 2 to existing audio setups.

To your other points, you’re bang on. 
Audio first.
Standards.
Modularity.

That’s the future.


Brilliant. That’s great to know. Thanks for that correction

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

Factoring in the supposed memory in each different type of Sonos unit:

 

Why is Sonos still selling the Playbar at full price?

Do current Playbar units still have 8 x less memory for 3.3 x the cost of a One?

Why aren’t Sonos telling customers what they get for their money (e.g. I wasn’t told that I was getting ½ as much memory as a Playbase for the same price.)

B
Userlevel 2
Badge

Can somebody please clarify for me, is it still the case that even with the Sonos commitment to support legacy products this will still mean split system's so no more multi zone to include new and legacy products except if you opt out of updates ?

 

 

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

Can somebody please clarify for me, is it still the case that even with the Sonos commitment to support legacy products this will still mean split system's so no more multi zone to include new and legacy products except if you opt out of updates ?

 

Even factoring in the CEO’s “apology” and every note I have read from Sonos Support, that is correct.

While they’ve started to say “they will continue to work as they do now”, that doesn’t mean they will continue to be able to sync/group with all the speakers in your network that they currently do.

They have made frequent reference to the older speakers needing to be run separately.

**Edit**
Here’s an example from Twitter demonstrating that their stance has not changed, they just keep shuffling the words around in their message.
 

 

T
Userlevel 1

Sonos, this is such a disaster that I fear you are a dead company walking.  

You had to do one thing - convert a network stream or web stream into a positive and negative and send it to a speaker.  Until now, you did that well. So well, in fact, that 9 million customers spent BILLIONS of dollars on your products.  This was NOT because you have some yet-to-be-announced-software-update-in-may.  You don’t know your customer and it is now painfully obvious.

Because all you do is sound, and the UI is on our phones and computers, your hardware should not need ANY additional processing power, ever.  All those software features should be confined to the application…. But by adding more and more unnecessary "features" to your hardware you somehow bricked not only these "legacy" products, but your entire brand.

I’m less worried about legacy support and more worried that this policy and backtrack may be the beginning of the end of Sonos as a company.   All I wanted was DTS in my Playbar... but instead you put an expiration date on my whole system.  

Time to dust off my wonderful 40 year old "legacy" stereo with a left and right channel - it should work forever and will never need a software update.  Oh yeah. I will get a different sound bar with DTS while I am at it.

chickentender

Can somebody please clarify for me, is it still the case that even with the Sonos commitment to support legacy products this will still mean split system's so no more multi zone to include new and legacy products except if you opt out of updates ?

 

 

Correct. Interoperability between all components, “modern” and “legacy” will only be possible if the entire network is legacy. To me personally, I’m beginning to see quite a few benefits to this arrangement. I’m not wild about the frequent controller changes and have no need of further (or any) voice integration or API functionality beyond what’s offered. A comparatively glacial update cycle would be welcome in my house considering it already works the way I desire.

If a commitment exists to provide future stability and security updates only, I really have no problem being “left behind” as it were. (Well, I wish it were still old and new all-inclusive obviously, but the sky isn’t falling.)

P
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

Can somebody please clarify for me, is it still the case that even with the Sonos commitment to support legacy products this will still mean split system's so no more multi zone to include new and legacy products except if you opt out of updates ?

 

 

Correct. Interoperability between all components, “modern” and “legacy” will only be possible if the entire network is legacy. To me personally, I’m beginning to see quite a few benefits to this arrangement. I’m not wild about the frequent controller changes and have no need of further (or any) voice integration or API functionality beyond what’s offered. A comparatively glacial update cycle would be welcome in my house considering it already works the way I desire.

I would tend to agree if it were not for the fear I have that they will not continue to support the legacy controller for very long. Will the legacy controller be updated to continue to work with the next version of Android or iOS? what about the version after that? They already neutered the computer controller which could have had a much longer life. 

Will we end up being forced to update Sonos equipment because we purchase a new phone? Just more questions that need to be answered between now and May.

F
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Retailers Move To Dump Sonos …  from Channel news  Australia

Specialist audio retailers who made Sonos famous when they first launched are now looking for new networked sound partners with Bowers & Wilkins already getting calls from current Sonos partners.

Overnight Sonos continues to feel stock price and social media pressure their announcement that the company would no longer support several models released between 2006 and 2009 which is when Sonos had the market to themselves and were according to one key Melbourne dealer “booming”.

“This is a Company who spruiked integration of a Sonos speaker into a network and despite their being nothing wrong with the Sonos speaker we sold to a customer they now want to try and force that same customer to buy another 16bit Sonos speaker when the market has moved to 24bit HD speakers” they said.

According to Philip Newton the CEO of Bowers and Wilkins his Company who unlike Sonos do manufacture and sell 24bit networked audio speakers demand for their speakers is growing.

He said that the Company has already got several dealers looking at moving to Bowers & Wilkins to replace Sonos speakers.

F
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

According to several dealers that ChannelNews has spoken to is that Sonos is trying to get dealers to force an upgrade on a customer “When an upgrade is not needed as the current Sonos speaker is working perfectly”.

Pete Pedersen VP, Global Marketing & Communications at Sonos who is believed to be behind the program to force consumers to upgrade to a new Sonos speaker due to the Company struggling to compete up against superior speakers from both Google and Amazon has not explained what he will do when consumers vent their anger with Sonos by buying another brand of speaker.

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

And now what?

Bose SoundTouch or Denon HEOS?

Please help me decide.

Both have the exact same risks right along with them. If you’re going to fracture your system, just make sure it’s more modular going forward. Or just sit tight, listen to music and see what happens. There’s little need to swap everything out unless you just think it’s fun and have the money. Nothing is going to explode.

Exactly, except the SoundTouch has already been discontinued.  Soooo...not that one.  Bose came out with a new line that is not compatible with SoundTouch and their ST customers were livid.  So there ya go. 

T
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

Looks like putting multiple zones to work on our receiver(s) is the way to go with other speakers. Wire is pretty cheap.  Rest of house I don’t know yet, but this seems such a profoundly broken way to proceed, particularly those of us who have large music libraries on a NAS (you also need to exit SMB1). We have been big users of the kit. Thousands $$$$ invested. Shame on us for hoping for the best.

The one that really got me was that Play5 cannot be preserved by using the Line-In input.  Those are decent speakers. Talk about showing your best customers the door, this is VERY effective. Oopphh.  If alternatives are not already eating you alive, how long do you think it will be that competition finds a way around patents and introduces an “Amp” for their sound ecosystem. 

I share all the other post questions about interoperability of legacy and new generation products. What’s the deal, here?

Recommend listen to TheTechGuy episode 25Jan2020.  Swears never to buy Sonos again predicting imminent Sonos demise. Pray tell the magnitude of cashing out with Golden Parachutes.

 

B

Hardware goes obsolete, I understand. But, if you want to give me an incentive to stay with Sonos, at least offer me a like trade-up. If I wanted a Move, I would have bought a Move. I bought Play:5’s, three of them. With your current course and speed, I probably won’t purchase your products again (I also have two Connect:Amp’s, a Playbar and a Sub) because I’m not sure I can trust you anymore.

 

A

My wife was out to a show tonight with a friend who with her husband is in the process of building a new house. This woman mentioned that they are thinking of investing in a Sonos system. My wife mentioned some of the things that are currently going on and suggested they may want to speak with me before they make a final decision.

Sorry Sonos, but you’ll no longer get any recommendations from me. Just the opposite in fact. This is just one potential customer they will be losing. But I’ll bet you can multiply my example over and over and over again. What I would have at one time happily recommended I am no longer able to do and I will in fact actively discourage people from buying. I’m not trying to be mean or vindictive. I just think the Sonos brand is not living up to what it originally promised and I believe they have lost their way as a Company.

B
Userlevel 1

I have a house full of Sonos and now get an email stating my 2 x play5 are obsolete. I paid £1200 for those and I am not happy. Both are used via line in so why can’t I keep doing that and not limit my newer devices. I’m regretting going down the Sonos route they were not exactly cheap. Very poor loyalty to customers.

Paul St
Userlevel 3

Well unless this mess is sorted out so I can use all my devices together I’m off.

just been looking at Denon Heos, seriously undercuts Sonos even with the 30% trade in, the top Heos 7 is £329 on Amazon, supports hi res audio and does everything Sonos does. So when my functionality is compromised I will start replacing Sonos, 2 gen1 5s in my kitchen will be first to go.

Thanks for making my decision an easy one Sonos, I will not be running 2 systems,  so I can keep newer devises updated.

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