End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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F
Userlevel 1
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I was wondering if SONOS would use the weekend to calm things down and come up with a reversal of their death wish announcement. It seems they are too entrenched in their past decision to take a different direction. There have been many suggestions here, some of them really quite interesting. For me, I am not too invested in SONOS (thankfully). I bought 2x Play1’s about three years ago. And in December 19 I bought a Beam. The lesson for me? Going forward I will use regular dumb high quality HiFi kit by a long established rock solid company like Naim, Rega, Arcam……….. And I will plug a streamer into the input of the dumb HiFi system. That could be a SONOS Port, or more likely now, something else now that SONOS appear to have changed direction. I do feel bad for those with big multi-room SONOS systems. Luckily, I have never been interested in that side of things.

F
Userlevel 1

This whole fiasco is beyond disappointing.  Write bare bones versions of your software to communicate with the legacy equipment & at least keep the ability to stream music to them while the new stuff gets full features. But they need to be able to sync & play music together.  I don't care if i can voice control any of it or not.

People who bought into sonos think of it as audio equipment, not tech. & audio equipment should work until something physically fails.  In the end, my play 5s have the ability to turn a wifi stream into sound.  So get your software engineers to figure out how to continue to send the music to them over a wifi signal.  What you're doing is a choice & will destroy your company.

T
Userlevel 3
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From the CEO’s Letter it is clear they think we will upgrade the newer stuff, and end up with a ‘Split System’ This will NOT work well for me. I just hope I can opt out of any upgrades after May and keep my system running as one unit.

I did find that if you plug two Sonos devices into a network they flood the network broadcasting to each other and disrupt the other traffic, so how is a ‘Split System’ going to work? Not well I suspect.

Y

The news is really disappointing for me just as it is for everyone else. I have one Play5 and three Play 3’s as well as one Gen:1 Play 1.  I already have two of the newer Play One’s as well. All of my devices are working perfectly so that I have no reason to replace very expensive devices with new expensive ones. 
 

Reliability and quality are two of the key reasons why I love Sonos so much and why I have always recommended it to my friends.
 

These devices cost a lot of money. I’m glad that the CEO has written to us and I really hope that they will support us in every way possible. I’ve even been a beta tester for many years. 
 

I feel cagey now about further purchases now. 

F
Userlevel 2
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If you bring modern devices along with legacy devices into a legacy build it’ll still be possible to add all Sonos products currently available for sale to a legacy system. They’ll all update to the correct legacy build.

Whoa Ryan, are you actually saying that a system currently containing Play:5 Gen 1 and Play:3 speakers (i.e. legacy and modern) will continue to work as it does at present even after May? If I understand correctly what you are saying here, I will have one system with a mix of generations. I understand that no further updates will be applied to the Play:5 speakers (and presumably to the Play:3 units as well).

What would I have to do to freeze the software level at that point after May? 

@FarFromGruntled, that’s correct. From the original message above:

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 


In May, when the legacy change comes, you’ll be able to set your whole Sonos system on the legacy build (both modern and legacy devices). Any existing modern speakers that come along with your legacy devices onto that build will work exactly as the have been, however the whole system (including the modern devices that move to legacy) won’t regularly update. Any new features that come to Sonos won’t be added to any of those speakers while they’re on legacy software. Over time, some services may require updates to keep going and we’ll do what we can to provide them, but we will be limited to do so by the hardware of those legacy devices.

Thank you Ryan. That seems clear. Much clearer, in fact, than the earlier strident message that we face the unacceptable option of a split system unless we upgrade our legacy units to modern.

I guess the big problem is contained in your comment: “Over time, some services may require updates to keep going...”. My main use of Sonos is streaming Spotify and TuneIn radio. If these become no longer compatible then the utility of Sonos is lost to me.

F
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Does anyone know where the subwoofer fits in on that chart?

D
Userlevel 2
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Looks like the play5 gen2 and the rest of them on the right side should have enough memory and space for a very long time, i can understand that 32 just wont cut it, still sad but...also is it MB or GB ?

B
Userlevel 3
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I have a Playbase 5.1 system, new Port, two one gen 2s and two SLs and a boost. All of which are currently safe from being obsolete. Currently but for how long? Beginning to feel really foolish for investing into Sonos. The May announcement better be very good to keep me onboard or I will start  looking  more closely at HEOS. This will cost me but may as we’ll cut my losses sooner rather than later. Can’t believe this fiasco.

A
Userlevel 5
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...also is it MB or GB ?

It says at the bottom “All sizes in MB”

There is no way they’re putting a terabyte of on-board memory into new units.

S
Userlevel 4
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... For some of us who want to just purchase a few newer Connect or Connect Amps so we can get past this May shut-out/forced obsolesce/split system issue, There may be some economical options out there instead of the reduced functionality (and stupid expense) of the Amp and Port or the environmental disaster of the “trade-in” program.  Of course Sonos isn’t clear about how much longer their so-called (Modern) units will be supported either...​​​​​​

@kassey22000, I know it’s buried several times in the pages of this thread and others, but we’ve committed to supporting our products with updates for at least five years after they’re no longer sold by us, after they’ve been discontinued. And as you all know, we have a track record of doing so for much longer than that. The 2015 Connect and Connect:Amps are only recently no longer sold, or in some cases still available at very limited stock levels. So you’re looking at at least five years worth of updates from when they were discontinued.

I'm sorry Ryan, but this was not what I was told when I brought into the sonos concept. It was sold as a hifi streaming system which could be added to make a truly remarkable system. But now products have an EOL policy, let me put it this way if I were to see a cake that cost £50 and I know that cake has a sell by date of a week. And there was another cake that costs £20 but has no use by date which one would you buy?? But again you have the £50 cake and the £20 cake both have no use by date, you buy the £50 cake as it a better quality but find out later it does have a use by date how would you feel about that.you would think I might as well got the £20 cake, this is exactly what sonos has done and frankly has killed the brand. Sonos may come up with this solution or that explanation of what will happen but non of the statementments returns us to the status que we had when we brought our systems. The sonos board ignore this fact at the company's peril but it's not to late to turn this around but I fear you won't.

 

I would eat the £50 cake before it becomes obsolete! or, list on gumtree for £30-£40, or wait for the '£1 max selling fee' promotion on fleabay and list on there.

 

i have already listed my 5.1 sonos on gumtree this week, waiting for the 'max £1 fee' link from ebay and listing on there.

 

now i know my kit may stop working (if eventually all stuck on 'legacy' mode) I might as well sell now and get a better 5.1 experince (better dialouge from the center speaker for starters)

I was looking at alternatives 1-2 weeks before the annoucement anyway so this just exbidited by exit plan.

 

i certainly will think cheap / second hand when buying anything 'smart' in the future

W
Userlevel 4
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It's a shame because every member on here now unhappy are probably the ones who helped put Sonos on the map as class leaders in multi room.

The deal should have been better to be honest and the response following on basically upsets others now who have jumped in and spent more money. It's insulting both those who want to keep their systems intact and those who have jumped to the tune and spent more money upgrading.

Basically this forum thread will simmer down over the next few days, Sonos will ride it out and then move on. Hard facts but there you go.

Definitely left a bitter taste though!

W
Userlevel 4
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sm75382

Anything caught your eye that you think could replace a playbar?

 

M

I dont see how we can trust Sonos anymore, I too like many have spent over 2k+ on Sonos and recommended a friend very recently to invest,  I now feel guilty for doing this.. 

I cant see me purchasing anymore sonos equipment or recommending them even after the CEO update, so sad that they care so little about those who keep them in business.

Gutted and disappointed in you Sonos.

F
Userlevel 4
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The irony is, the cheaper the speakers the more future proof they are.. they’ll last indefinitely.

Got klipch igroove, use it with iPod classic, 10 years old Ish & still going strong.( also has line in for Bluetooth etc)

 Not as good as my Sonos play 5 … but still a  v good speaker, that won’t be deemed irrelevant by lack of support & updates.

Sonos latest debacle is completely of their own  greedy making.

No speakers with the price tag that Sonos have, should have a best before date!!!

U
Userlevel 6
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Basically this forum thread will simmer down over the next few days, Sonos will ride it out and then move on. Hard facts but there you go.

That’s what’s confusing at this point though. Move on how? Sonos doesn’t have any hardware advantage over competitors at this point, it’s not like when they launched and multi room audio wasn’t really available.

So what do they have? Well, an established customer base and a strong brand. Except that’s exactly what they’ve trashed at this point.

The management are either monumentally stupid or there’s some strategy in play that they think is more valuable than their entire existing base of customers, brand loyalty and reputation.

S
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sm75382

Anything caught your eye that you think could replace a playbar?

 

i have the playbase

i will likely get wharfedale dx2 speakers and yahama rxv 585 av reciever. its for my bedroom so i am limited on physical size of speakers.

 

but, i think yahama and denon will have hdmi 2.1 av receivers out this year (march -april annoucement) so might wait till then to buy.

the receiver is £280 at the moment and gives u the option of 7 speakers. might be cheaper by the summer.

seems richer sounds (uk) is the best place to buy from

J

The lesson for me? Going forward I will use regular dumb high quality HiFi kit by a long established rock solid company like Naim, Rega, Arcam……….. And I will plug a streamer into the input of the dumb HiFi system.

Realy believe this is the best way forward. Good stand alone speakers and a power amp will last. Already do this in 3 zones in our house, with 2 more to come. And if I have to buy a new port/streamer for each room every 8-10 years (period of sales + min 5 years service) to stay updated with the the technology that is manageable. It also makes it much easier to change platforms from Sonos to other streaming options as only the streamer has to be replaced. 
 

it would reduce the Sonos offering to just one product a “port”, but with a (still it seems) superior app and user experience that could still be a platform.
 

If Sonos wants to keep making stand alone speakers Sonos could make the port like component modular in the speaker so eg a future play 5 speaker is mainly just amp and a good speaker integrated with a line in, and then the “port” streaming component is a module that can easily be user replaced and switched out to the latest technology every 8-10 years (at a sensible cost obviously) or even the line in can be fed with a third party streaming component of the future. 
 

If the speaker was designed with space for the modular component it could still give the look and feel of a simple integrated wireless speaker, just with ability to upgrade the technology component or accept a simple line in for longevity. 

K

The lesson for me? Going forward I will use regular dumb high quality HiFi kit by a long established rock solid company like Naim, Rega, Arcam……….. And I will plug a streamer into the input of the dumb HiFi system.

Realy believe this is the best way forward. Good stand alone speakers and a power amp will last. Already do this in 3 zones in our house, with 2 more to come. And if I have to buy a new port/streamer for each room every 8-10 years (period of sales + min 5 years service) to stay updated with the the technology that is manageable. It also makes it much easier to change platforms from Sonos to other streaming options as only the streamer has to be replaced. 
 

it would reduce the Sonos offering to just one product a “port”, but with a (still it seems) superior app and user experience that could still be a platform.
 

If Sonos wants to keep making stand alone speakers Sonos could make the port like component modular in the speaker so eg a future play 5 speaker is mainly just amp and a good speaker integrated with a line in, and then the “port” streaming component is a module that can easily be user replaced and switched out to the latest technology every 8-10 years (at a sensible cost obviously) or even the line in can be fed with a third party streaming component of the future. 
 

If the speaker was designed with space for the modular component it could still give the look and feel of a simple integrated wireless speaker, just with ability to upgrade the technology component or accept a simple line in for longevity. 

@JSU @FredBloggs Head over to the linked thread for more on the above thinking:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-a-pragmatic-way-past-it-6836056

Note that streamers like Echos that can now work without voice commands are so cheap that you can even change them every 3-4 years - less than USD 50 a pop.

And the HiFi brand names offer active speakers now, with built in amps, so you don't even need that bit of kit. If you don't mind their industrial looks, there also are the active speakers for the pro audio market that can serve, that on an average sell for half the price of their HiFi counterparts.

K
Userlevel 7
Badge +16

I am a bit curious - Sonos had other crises in the past, for instance the one around requiring registration, as illustrated by the following cut-out from Amazon.de:

How did Sonos manage to stear through this crisis - and the previous round of retiring products? What arguments or acts ended up calming down their customers again?

As for the registration, I myself got annoyed but then just registered; as I remember it with a kind if reasoning for myself that I was registered with so many other vendors (and also already with this one), so it wouldn’t make much of a difference for me. But others were unhappy - did they leave, did they end up accepting the new terms, or what happened?

No replies to this?

I had a feeling, and this could perhaps confirm it, that nothing happened - Sonos didn’t need to do anything to repair the damage. Instead, the customers just moved on after the first few days of complaining as if nothing had happened. And now the change is part of everyone’s life with their Sonos products.

So, now I wonder if the CEO, seemingly an intelligent person, is calculating with this behavior? Maybe he simply expected a couple of days of uproar, followed by business as usual - apart from the change introduced. Afterall, it is the easiest way forward for everybody involved - customers will just start replacing old equipment and soon be ready for the next attack that will also quickly be forgotten.

That's not really comparing apples to apples though. 

Entering your email address into the app vs Sonos mothballing £1000's of of kit (per customer) can't have the same outcome and anyone who thinks otherwise must be on something!.

W

I have to add my comments. I was notified that 13 Sonos pieces I own would be suddenly effectively obsolete. I had bought them between around 2010-2013. More than $4000 worth. I also own another More than 10 pieces, sound bars, playbase, subs, Sonos ones etc. 

I found this absolutely shocking. And the announcement had no mention of an apology in any way. 
 

I went from a loyal Sonos user to someone determined never to buy another product again. 
 

The CEO note is better, and encouraging. So let’s see how they deliver. 
 

Were they surprised by the reaction? What did they expect?!

W
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

The lesson for me? Going forward I will use regular dumb high quality HiFi kit by a long established rock solid company like Naim, Rega, Arcam……….. And I will plug a streamer into the input of the dumb HiFi system.

Realy believe this is the best way forward. Good stand alone speakers and a power amp will last. Already do this in 3 zones in our house, with 2 more to come. And if I have to buy a new port/streamer for each room every 8-10 years (period of sales + min 5 years service) to stay updated with the the technology that is manageable. It also makes it much easier to change platforms from Sonos to other streaming options as only the streamer has to be replaced. 
 

it would reduce the Sonos offering to just one product a “port”, but with a (still it seems) superior app and user experience that could still be a platform.
 

If Sonos wants to keep making stand alone speakers Sonos could make the port like component modular in the speaker so eg a future play 5 speaker is mainly just amp and a good speaker integrated with a line in, and then the “port” streaming component is a module that can easily be user replaced and switched out to the latest technology every 8-10 years (at a sensible cost obviously) or even the line in can be fed with a third party streaming component of the future. 
 

If the speaker was designed with space for the modular component it could still give the look and feel of a simple integrated wireless speaker, just with ability to upgrade the technology component or accept a simple line in for longevity. 

 

Great advise

My Sonos set up runs alongside Google assistant speakers dotted around the house. Obviously the Sonos part being the hi fi system. However the Google cast and Google home app works better than the Sonos app imo and basically the line in input in the back of my play 5 links the two systems together. So in effect I'm using Google software to run my Sonos most of the time.

 The point of my tale is that it's only a matter of time now before Google/cast/assistant or even Amazon get to grips with multi room and add to their hardware with a decent soundbar,sub,small speaker and big speaker.

At that point I think Sonos will loose the market. And thus latest stunt hasn't helped one bit!

K

@Wkelkel : in my case for your Google devices, substitute Echos, and I am very like you.

IMO, the only place where an all integrated Sonos will continue to make sense is for TV sound; I haven't seen Amazon/Google approach Sonos capability there as yet. Although the new Echo Studios with Atmos sound intriguing, but I know little about them at this time.

W
Userlevel 2

It's a shame because every member on here now unhappy are probably the ones who helped put Sonos on the map as class leaders in multi room.

The deal should have been better to be honest and the response following on basically upsets others now who have jumped in and spent more money. It's insulting both those who want to keep their systems intact and those who have jumped to the tune and spent more money upgrading.

Basically this forum thread will simmer down over the next few days, Sonos will ride it out and then move on. Hard facts but there you go.

Definitely left a bitter taste though!

Good points, I agree it will die down but the damage is done and we are acceptable damage collateral for the Company for them to put out this announcement.

I for one, will not buy more Sonos as they have just proven how exposed we all are when investing cash in such equipment. I have not required all the voice control they put in their speakers, if I wanted that, I can buy a cheap add on box. Until this, I would have continued expanding the system, upgrading and replacing units when products ceased working naturally, all the while being an ambassador for the products to anyone in ear reach of listening. For now the equipment continues to work but for how long?

This is a warning or a “reality check” for most of us. Being software driven they can still hit the kill switch when they choose be it 1 year, 5 years, 10 years.  I cannot afford to do that, money is hard enough to earn, I love my gear but I am not willing to spend hard earned cash on something that ultimately is not under my control.

I still have my 30 years old CD player, amp and floor standing speakers in my garage - sound great and never missed a beat. What is better, switch them on, grab a beer and work on the bike or car. As I said above, these would have eventually been replaced by Sonos. 

If others feel like me, that does not bode well for the Company unless they have something up their sleeves that the youngsters cannot live without, because those are probably the only customers they have left to sell their software products to!

PS - having feelings for my speakers, probably need to spend money on a shrink!!!

K

It is time to remind everyone here that is angry - be grateful that all legacy products have line in, and say: All hail, Line In…

Doesn't help those aggrieved by having traded in their line in jacks though.

W
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

wkbglobal

Well said! Likewise with me. I gave up Kenwood, Sony, Matantz  seperates to go "full in" with Sonos. Many of these units are still on sale today, fully working and probably sound better 15 years later.

Sonos need to make a gesture here. In my case turn off the 21 day brick schedule and let me keep my old Play 5! I'll recycle it when I've finished with it after buying my next Sonos product. As we stand I won't be buying another Sonos unit whatsoever going forward, but instead adding other Google assistant units that are cheaper and sound just as good.

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