End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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chickentender

I’d suggest moving on pragmatically like a number here have decided to. No longer recommend Sonos to others. Continue to use your system as a legacy system; if you are not interested in streaming services, you’re unlikely to be affected by using a legacy system in any way. If you’d like to expand your system, don’t buy new product, buy additional used-market units that are also legacy and thus extremely inexpensive comparatively. (Case in point: I just got a gen-1 Play5 for 100 USD following this mess). You (we) ought to be fine for years, provided Sonos doesn’t completely go under - that is the true risk in all of this. But even that is remote; I suspect they’d be acquired by another company before shuttered entirely. At any rate, I’m just going to pay attention to what’s happening, and carry on as usual, not being bothered by missing future software updates (which, to be frank, have offered me nothing in several years, except occasional system instability).


Stupid question and i am not at home to check (i may have my system set to auto-updates) but i have never knowingly updated my system for years, i run it mainly from my PC and my CR100 still works…. I am in a parallel update free universe? I can’t even remember registering my products it was so long ago i bought them, i assume i did but it will be to some email i no longer use... [i just created this account to vent my anger 🙂 ]

Not a stupid question. Entirely possible. If you’ve turned off auto-update at some point in the past and not moved beyond a certain version, then yes (there are plenty who’ve done this intentionally). Have you added new hardware in the past while? Are you still able, via your desktop controller to manage advanced settings like wi-fi channels or invididual speaker compressions settings etc.? Current desktop controller has lost all of that and can only affect playback and basic EQ settings, speaker groups, etc.. You could well be on an older version already.

S
Userlevel 3

Why bother and staying with Sonos? I made up my mind in just a few hours. There are other systems on the market that hopefully wont stab us in the back suddenly.

 

Just sold three ZP100. Next step: the rest of the system. So looking forward to Yamaha Musiccast!

S
Userlevel 3

And - the new e-mail is just comic:

1. We heard you.

2. We are sorry.

3. We are still doing exactly what we said in the first e-mail.

4. We will however release security patches.

5. We are sorry.

6. Can you forgive us?

 

Answer: No. Too late.

Y

My Mail to Mr Spence…

 

Dear Mr. Spence,

I’ve read your statement. https://blog.sonos.com/en/a-letter-from-our-ceo/
It’s definitely not clear and satisfying enough. It’s a good indication that you’ve heard us but it will not make us paying any money to become even more depended on your system and your – as it seems – good will. Splitting up a multi room system makes it becoming a single-room-system. That’s not what the customer has bought and paid for. That’s not why we choose Sonos.

Concentrate on your main business, playing music from as much as possible sources. Offer the newest tech stuff which needs stronger hardware on separate devices two those who really want it. Start to split weak and strong devices in terms of software but keep them together in the same group.

What you’ve done made us aware of how much we have to rely on you. It cleared up my mind, how great the simplicity of a bluetooth speaker is. It can be connected to whatever device – in can solely replace if it’s not workening any longer and it will work (almost) forever. How clever it ist to split up the wireless connected music playing device and the speaker itself.

There will be plenty of used Sonos devices on the 2nd hand market the next few weeks and months. Your sales will break down.

Show us your true good will. Provide us with even better solutions (direct play from a mobile device – android and apple).

Yours sincerely

 

 

D
Userlevel 3
Badge

My Mail to Mr Spence…

 

Dear Mr. Spence,

I’ve read your statement. https://blog.sonos.com/en/a-letter-from-our-ceo/
It’s definitely not clear and satisfying enough. It’s a good indication that you’ve heard us but it will not make us paying any money to become even more depended on your system and your – as it seems – good will. Splitting up a multi room system makes it becoming a single-room-system. That’s not what the customer has bought and paid for. That’s not why we choose Sonos.

Concentrate on your main business, playing music from as much as possible sources. Offer the newest tech stuff which needs stronger hardware on separate devices two those who really want it. Start to split weak and strong devices in terms of software but keep them together in the same group.

What you’ve done made us aware of how much we have to rely on you. It cleared up my mind, how great the simplicity of a bluetooth speaker is. It can be connected to whatever device – in can solely replace if it’s not workening any longer and it will work (almost) forever. How clever it ist to split up the wireless connected music playing device and the speaker itself.

There will be plenty of used Sonos devices on the 2nd hand market the next few weeks and months. Your sales will break down.

Show us your true good will. Provide us with even better solutions (direct play from a mobile device – android and apple).

Yours sincerely

 

 

This is what everyone is upset about. Either Spence didn’t understand why people are upset or he’s still not willing to listen to customer feedback. 

J

Wow,   I was just getting ready to order a “Port”.   Guess not.  Hopefully you haven’t completely destroyed your brand.  I have moved from recommending your products to a hold position.  

M
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Although the jan/22 CEO message points in a better direction, this still needs a lot of improvement.

One would think that after the bricking of controllers you would have learned.

Hi-Fi is not a phone which people expect to get obsolete. Especially a whole house system with thousands invested. What your users expect:​​​​​​

  1. Devices to remain operable for as long as possible, even if they don't have all NEW features. That means keeping the streaming services we use functioning. You don't need a ton of memory or processing to keep existing features.
  2. Devices to remain interoperable between new and old, as has always been the case. That means we need to be able to group old and new devices while playing.

You need much better communications, PR and crisis management if you are to keep your customers loyal. Get your act together you you'll destroy the brand.

I've been a loyal customer for over a decade with 9 zones and am an evangelist, bringing many new customers to Sonos. I hope you find a reasonable solution to this hole you've put yourselves into.

An unsatisfactory solution will mean thousands of your customers will no longer trust you with a single cent. Sonos is a long term commitment. Long term commitments require trust. You're managing to lose ours.

With all due respect, the CEO message said nothing of the sort.  He said they got the whole thing wrong, and then basically repeated what had been said previously with different wording.

N

Why should we believe anything SONOS promises about future support? Earlier this month before Congress, CEO Spence said that SONOS was different from larger rivals because it supports products for many years: “Our business model is simple — we sell products which people pay for once, and we make them better over time with software updates.”

baconator
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

Why bother and staying with Sonos? I made up my mind in just a few hours. There are other systems on the market that hopefully wont stab us in the back suddenly.

 

Just sold three ZP100. Next step: the rest of the system. So looking forward to Yamaha Musiccast!

What made you pick Yamaha? I'm looking at that and Denon Heos for the equivalent to the connect amp.

D
Userlevel 3
Badge


This is a current SONOS advert.

It states that you can ‘Build your system’ and ‘expand it any time’.

Looks like somebody forgot to tell the advertising department, that the management has changed it’s mind about all of that.

No, you cannot any longer expand your system unless you throw away all the stuff we sold you 5 years ago.

Man, false advertising. 

False advertising indeed.

C
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

Unfortunately, I’ve endured this transition once before in the digital music world, having suffered through the slimdevices becomes Logitech Music debacle -- eventually the systems got left behind where streaming services are concerned (though still workable for local music collections). That’s how I ended up with Sonos in the first place.

If this goes as badly as that transition, lesson learned: do NOT invest in systems which integrate the software with the actual speakers -- at least then come what may the only parts that get bricked are the networking dongles, and you’ll still have functioning speakers to use with emergent software/network systems.

At least I am able to use my old Squeezeboxes as glorified clocks -- my Play5, Connect and collection of Play1s appear destined to become paperweights.

Of course, maybe the big brains at Sonos are having a “New Coke” moment and will realize that legacy hardware can be retained if they create a “Legacy Master” device that can be upgraded which simply streams bits to legacy “slave” units … 

Turtle Beach AudioTron is still usable  :wink:

K
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

Both my earlier post on the BBC and Evening Standard indicate that the legacy and modern groups are being created to allow appropriate level updates to reach each group, presumably because the legacy components have insufficient capacity to handle what’s coming in software updates and would cause the update to the whole system to fail. The BBC hints, and the Evening Standard states Spence saying : the speakers still work together but receive the appropriate updates for each device. 

I understand the desire to cling to hope, despite all the evidence, but I believe you are being ridiculous. When a news agency speaks directly with someone, they always say so in the article. In this case, it’s very clear that they haven’t actually spoken with Spence and they have no first hand information They are simply (mis)interpreting his statement. A statement that was very carefully worded to imply grouping without actually saying so. The statement was designed to be misinterpreted by the press, and it worked. 

M
Userlevel 7
Badge +4

Unfortunately, I’ve endured this transition once before in the digital music world, having suffered through the slimdevices becomes Logitech Music debacle -- eventually the systems got left behind where streaming services are concerned (though still workable for local music collections). That’s how I ended up with Sonos in the first place.

If this goes as badly as that transition, lesson learned: do NOT invest in systems which integrate the software with the actual speakers -- at least then come what may the only parts that get bricked are the networking dongles, and you’ll still have functioning speakers to use with emergent software/network systems.

At least I am able to use my old Squeezeboxes as glorified clocks -- my Play5, Connect and collection of Play1s appear destined to become paperweights.

Of course, maybe the big brains at Sonos are having a “New Coke” moment and will realize that legacy hardware can be retained if they create a “Legacy Master” device that can be upgraded which simply streams bits to legacy “slave” units … 

Turtle Beach AudioTron is still usable  :wink:

So funny. I endured AudioTron, then had 5 or so Squeezeboxes, now Sonos. I just noticed the Squeezebox Transporter still plugged in my basement. Good times. I though by going premium with Sonos I would not have to go through this again.  I guess not. 
 

lesson here is I never spent money with Turtle Beach or Logitech again. Sonos, are you listening?

chickentender

Why bother and staying with Sonos? I made up my mind in just a few hours. There are other systems on the market that hopefully wont stab us in the back suddenly.

 

Just sold three ZP100. Next step: the rest of the system. So looking forward to Yamaha Musiccast!

I’m not. I'm staying with legacy Sonos. I don’t have the money, the time, or will to

  1. disconnect and sell all my Sonos gear,
  2. find something else suitable that could inevitably meet the same IoT-sphere fate of future doom, or
  3. wire my home and/or move to an entirely modular system (which I ought to have in the first place) in one fell swoop.

What I can afford to do is find a single piece that will be an alternative single unit (on its own and to feed one of my Connects) for the time being that gives me options for the future and lets me utilize what’s left of Sonos streaming services for however long that remains, and utilize Sonos as a “dumb” wireless speaker network fed from another source for however long I want before selling binning it.

Really simply, I just don’t feel like letting Sonos wreck my day, or week, or month. 🙂 And a lot of that is financially driven. Anyone else that has the money and wants to play with other new shite on the market, have at it and have fun.

chickentender

Unfortunately, I’ve endured this transition once before in the digital music world, having suffered through the slimdevices becomes Logitech Music debacle -- eventually the systems got left behind where streaming services are concerned (though still workable for local music collections). That’s how I ended up with Sonos in the first place.

If this goes as badly as that transition, lesson learned: do NOT invest in systems which integrate the software with the actual speakers -- at least then come what may the only parts that get bricked are the networking dongles, and you’ll still have functioning speakers to use with emergent software/network systems.

At least I am able to use my old Squeezeboxes as glorified clocks -- my Play5, Connect and collection of Play1s appear destined to become paperweights.

Of course, maybe the big brains at Sonos are having a “New Coke” moment and will realize that legacy hardware can be retained if they create a “Legacy Master” device that can be upgraded which simply streams bits to legacy “slave” units … 

Turtle Beach AudioTron is still usable  :wink:

New Coke still tastes great. :wink:   (to the same number of people with Turtle Beach)

(That’s not a dig.)

C
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

Waste of time to express my complete distain and feeling of betrayal after spending thousands on what will soon be garbage , but here it is. There’s nothing I can do but to hope the worst for Sonos as it gets pushed out by companies now producing better products at lower prices.

I sincerely hope that your company soon ends up in the same garbage heap as your products.

Shame. shame, shame on you.

Gotta admit I’ve seen a fair few posts like this and while I’m mad at Sonos at getting this so wrong I do want them to turn this around, ongoing support for any and all of their products depends on this - Sonos failing completely would be worse that what is proposed. 

While stupidly they are giving many people a good reason to go out and replace their Sonos kit overnight,  I honestly don’t think any of their rivals offering comparative products have supported them as long, I doubt those lower priced products will still be supported in 5 years from sale. 

MusicCast is still supporting six year old products. I’m switching.

S
Userlevel 2

I have recently bought a new play 5 - from Amazon. I have just started the return process. Easy. I will return it and get my money back. That is about damage limitation. The main problem I have is the fact that I have different products / different generations with the issue of them not working together in the future (it already a problem now). I have several Play Ones (I kept buying them thinking I did not want  the Alexa functionality and never thought they may become obsolete because they are a nice heavy good looking piece of kit - ‘designed to last for ever’).

I
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

Both my earlier post on the BBC and Evening Standard indicate that the legacy and modern groups are being created to allow appropriate level updates to reach each group, presumably because the legacy components have insufficient capacity to handle what’s coming in software updates and would cause the update to the whole system to fail. The BBC hints, and the Evening Standard states Spence saying : the speakers still work together but receive the appropriate updates for each device. 

I understand the desire to cling to hope, despite all the evidence, but I believe you are being ridiculous. When a news agency speaks directly with someone, they always say so in the article. In this case, it’s very clear that they haven’t actually spoken with Spence and they have no first hand information They are simply (mis)interpreting his statement. A statement that was very carefully worded to imply grouping without actually saying so. The statement was designed to be misinterpreted by the press, and it worked. 

I think you are being condescendingly discourteous 

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +8

This article nicely sums up the difficult position Sonos has put itself in. https://www.slashgear.com/sonos-nightmare-was-inevitable-24607638/

Act in haste, repent at leisure.
E
Userlevel 1

Wow. When I read that email, I thought, business professors are going to be using Sonos as a modern-day example of New Coke, which school-aged students these days weren’t around for.

Same as the others, I do not expect a high-tech device to remain useful forever. However I feel with a little effort a technical solution could be found which would allow Legacy devices to continue to be used with Modern devices (as it does today, as was the promise of Sonos).  It seems to me as simple as creating a legacy software version which can do the critical tasks of communicating with the modern devices without bringing new features to old devices which can’t support it.  And if you can’t do that, then sell affected owners new devices at cost.  I don’t need new features, I just want my devices to continue doing what they’ve done all along.

Like so many others here, I have spent thousands on Sonos for myself and my recommendations to friends and family have led to lots more sales for them.  That has all changed.  The easy way to win me back and guarantee more sales to me and my social group is to allow the legacy devices to keep working, and keep working with the modern devices.  If not, then I’ve already bought my last Sonos device.  Who knows when the Ones I bought a few months ago will shift from Modern to Legacy and I’ll have to upgrade my whole system again?  It’s a non-starter for me.

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +8

Both my earlier post on the BBC and Evening Standard indicate that the legacy and modern groups are being created to allow appropriate level updates to reach each group, presumably because the legacy components have insufficient capacity to handle what’s coming in software updates and would cause the update to the whole system to fail. The BBC hints, and the Evening Standard states Spence saying : the speakers still work together but receive the appropriate updates for each device. 

I understand the desire to cling to hope, despite all the evidence, but I believe you are being ridiculous. When a news agency speaks directly with someone, they always say so in the article. In this case, it’s very clear that they haven’t actually spoken with Spence and they have no first hand information They are simply (mis)interpreting his statement. A statement that was very carefully worded to imply grouping without actually saying so. The statement was designed to be misinterpreted by the press, and it worked. 

I think you are being discourteous

 

Act in haste, repent at leisure.
I
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

Both my earlier post on the BBC and Evening Standard indicate that the legacy and modern groups are being created to allow appropriate level updates to reach each group, presumably because the legacy components have insufficient capacity to handle what’s coming in software updates and would cause the update to the whole system to fail. The BBC hints, and the Evening Standard states Spence saying : the speakers still work together but receive the appropriate updates for each device. 

I understand the desire to cling to hope, despite all the evidence, but I believe you are being ridiculous. When a news agency speaks directly with someone, they always say so in the article. In this case, it’s very clear that they haven’t actually spoken with Spence and they have no first hand information They are simply (mis)interpreting his statement. A statement that was very carefully worded to imply grouping without actually saying so. The statement was designed to be misinterpreted by the press, and it worked. 

I think you are being condescendingly discourteous!

Here’s an extract from an article from Slashgear.com referenced above:

 

More galling, Sonos revealed that those people with a mixed network of newer and legacy models would have to choose between the latest software or keeping everything running. While the company said it was working on a way to have a single network with both newer models like the Sonos Move keeping pace with the freshest firmware, even as older hardware no longer kept up, it wasn’t entirely sure whether that would work or, if so, when it might be enabled.

……..

As for the ability to use legacy and modern products together, again, Spence reiterated the previous commitment that Sonos would do its best to deliver that. He didn’t answer the biggest concern among owners, though: would they be able to group legacy and modern zones together, and play the same music in them all? 

The obvious reason for that omission is that Sonos probably doesn’t know the answer itself yet. It had hoped to close the door on its older devices and focus on keeping its features competitive on newer models.

So if you troubled yourself to have read the full content of my comment, and previous ones, you will have seen that i prefaced the comment that there is a mere glimmer of hope; not  hanging my hat on it but reading around the subject, not being blinded by the hysteria,  there are other comments (admittedly few) hinting that the end game is to try and achieve a single network.  Based on the scant information, I tried to envisage how it may possibly work… no more, no less.

The last sentence above is enlightening  It had hoped to close the door on its older devices and focus on keeping its features competitive on newer models.  So maybe, just maybe, we were correct in being angry at what appeared to be a deliberate policy of early obsolescence… and maybe, just maybe, the last 48 hrs of collective action/ comment has resulted in a shift of attitude away from the easy fix/ dollar earning policy to one to try and deliver what everyone is crying out for… 

D

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

I’m glad to see this update to what was a fairly outrageous initial communication. I’ve previously purchased 4 Sonos items, 2 of which are in the soon to be unsupported category. Perhaps naively I thought this equipment would have stood the test of time, I certainly won’t be making any further purchases, even despite the updated messaging.

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

Yamaha musicast looking very good as a replacement, so if I lose streaming on the sonos I'll get the Yamaha and use the sonos as a dumb speaker system.

S
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

It seems telling that Ryan_S has not made a comment or clarification in many, many pages of posts. 

Either we’re all being allowed to vent, or there’s nothing new to say. Or both.

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