End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

Now we’ll need a “Sonos Buyer’s Guide”.  

 

That will be easy

For every product the answer will be :

Dont buy it

:laughing:

S

Sorry to pile it on, but I’m done with Sonos as well. I loved their products, have bought multiple ones and urged friends and family to buy them. I was considering ‘upgrading’ my home theater system to Sonos, but I realized my Denon amp and Boston acoustics speakers sound as great as when I bought them in 2006. If I decide to upgrade, might as well stick with ‘dumb’ speakers than spend money on a company that forces obsolescence and waste. 

H
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

I love my Sonos system, I’ve had it for years and was about to buy an extra unit for my bedroom - not now.

Like a lot of folks on this thread i bought my system as a high end system (which is what it was marketed as) for digitizing my extensive CD collection. I’m not interested in subscription music services and never will be. I want a reliable good quality system to run high quality music from a NAS. I deliberated for a long time and eventually bought Sonos on the recommendations from Sonos community users and never regretted it. Multi-room was a very welcome bonus that i love, dare i say it feels indispensable. However now i’m thinking… why didn’t i bite the bullet and buy a Cyrus!

If i buy relatively expensive audio equipment i don’t expect to get held to hostage after i have purchased the system. I expect it to do what it says on the tin, and what it was promised to do, until it breaks.

I can understand that there may potentially be issues running old sonos kit with new, but i don’t see that they would be insurmountable, and i don’t see why they can’t keep legacy systems so they continue to do what they have been doing for years - it’s a steady state system.

As others have said, it smacks of cynical attempt to drive sales. I fail to see how anyone with a brain cell would think the 30% discount would tempt sonos stalwarts to fork out their hard earned cash to replace legacy hardware… only to face the same situation in 5 years time. Do they really think we are that stupid?

The final straw is Sonos bricking perfectly good hardware - about as un-environmentally friendly as you can get.

It breaks my heart, and will be a pain in the arse for me but i will be switching. I will be doing my homework on network music players (aka CambridgeAudio) and look for separate multi-room solutions.

So congrats Sonos, rather then me spending my money on more Sonos kit, you’ve pushed me into the arms of your rivals.

 

 

 

 

I’d suggest moving on pragmatically like a number here have decided to. No longer recommend Sonos to others. Continue to use your system as a legacy system; if you are not interested in streaming services, you’re unlikely to be affected by using a legacy system in any way. If you’d like to expand your system, don’t buy new product, buy additional used-market units that are also legacy and thus extremely inexpensive comparatively. (Case in point: I just got a gen-1 Play5 for 100 USD following this mess). You (we) ought to be fine for years, provided Sonos doesn’t completely go under - that is the true risk in all of this. But even that is remote; I suspect they’d be acquired by another company before shuttered entirely. At any rate, I’m just going to pay attention to what’s happening, and carry on as usual, not being bothered by missing future software updates (which, to be frank, have offered me nothing in several years, except occasional system instability).


This sounds like a good solution, buy second hand if you need and run a complete legacy system. Having part modern in my set-up is a total no go, as a split system won’t work for me.

I
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

Here’s an extract from today’s Evening Standard:

 

Spence said the company is working on a way for customers to split these systems so the speakers still work together but receive the appropriate updates for each device. 

 

This reiterates my earlier speculation from a BBC article that its the legacy units’ inability to handle greater memory requirement updates which necessitates creating two populations of Sonos units - legacy and modern.  The ES article goes further by saying that the speakers still work together but receive the appropriate updates for each device. 

 

If the storm (hopefully in a train cup) is ONLY about handling software updates and they can indeed work together after having been updated, I’m HAPPY again.

The speakers WILL NOT work together if you choose to update. See reply that I got via Twitter today. 

 

I can see and understand that reply which is consistent with most of what has been said over the last of 48 hours.  However @sonossupport are not infallible and it’s a fair bet there’s confusion and mixed message there.

 

Both my earlier post on the BBC and Evening Standard indicate that the legacy and modern groups are being created to allow appropriate level updates to reach each group, presumably because the legacy components have insufficient capacity to handle what’s coming in software updates and would cause the update to the whole system to fail. The BBC hints, and the Evening Standard states Spence saying : the speakers still work together but receive the appropriate updates for each device. 

 

Therefore, if we are lucky, we separate into two groups for purpose of enabling updates at capacity constrained levels.  Lets say we have two types of software - Legacy basic and Legacy enhanced.  All speakers can read legacy basic thereby allowing grouping for ALL speakers.  However, when trying to run Legacy enhanced, this isn’t loaded into the legacy speakers so will only play on Modern units.  It’s bit more difficult than saying trying to run Airplay2 on an older speaker which can just ignore the instruction which won’t have been recognised.  However, if say the update is high res streaming, it would not be possible for the legacy speakers to play ball which would either cause the command to crash or the legacy speakers to drop out.  It may be that this dropping out can be done automatically when there’s a request to execute a legacy plus command, leaving the legacy group out of the command (just as TV drops the players/ beams out of groupings).  

 

Read the BBC and Evening Standard posts and this is possibly what is now intended, despite what a well intended @sonossupport guy may have been briefed to say.  Things may have changed quickly.

 

If it transpires like I envisage, I’d be happy since we would have lost none of the basic existing functionality; gain limited use of new features and at our choice, can upgrade at leisure to newer components when we require these enhancements in other zoners.

 

If however, we DO lose WHOLE grouping, my anger and disappointment remains.

 

 

R
Userlevel 3
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I  have over $5000 invested in my Sonos system.  Now  you want me to replace my (several) connect:amps which  cost $550cdn each and still work fine with new $900 cdn amps, but btw they still won’t support new features because of my other legacy products.  Oh, you are going to give me a 30% discount but the new amps are still more expensive than my old amps.. . You are suggesting that I have to buy everything twice!!!!  This is idotic and contemptuous of  your most loyal customers.  If you want us to have new units for future product support THEN GIVE THEM TO US FOR FREE.  NOT FOR SOME STUPID 30% DISCOUNT.  I am absolutely furious. I was a loyal early adopter who, through my word of mouth, am responsible for tens of thousands of dollars of sonos sales… thanks alot for treating me like **** Sonos.

R
Userlevel 3
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You guys have to put your genius thinking caps back on and come up with a better solution for your loyal customers.  Why not:

  1. Give us more options… enable features on new units that work with older units
  2. have some features available on new units, not on older units
  3. add a product which helps out old units?  more memory? processing? get !@#$ creative here.
  4. sure, if necessary run two seperate networks.. but figure out how we can control them with one controller.  I’m sure your third party developers are already way ahead of  you guys on figuring this out.
K
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

Hi all employees and the CEO at SONOS, the past days has been turmoilf us and for you, CEO has halfway withdrawn the statement made earlier in the week and I have felt resentment to SONOS, totally losing trust in you.

 

What SONOS must do in order to earn back the trust is to prove words with rock solid actions and promises, not a single vague reservation will be accepted by your customers anymore, your wording will be analyzed and interpreted by us all.

 

All of us have and still enjoy your products, you thought that you could make us accept the first message and you have with your anlysis late 2019 shown that such statements would damage your brand and still you went along instead of finding an better option. This falls on all the management and employees that has been involved in this mess.

 

I’am looking into my options and currently I have no intention of expanding my current SONOS stable with further products from you, until you prove to me that you deserve to get my money again.

 

So prove yourself to me and the other customers with real promises and actions, you probably need to show the roadmap for us in this matter (and for your competition) in order to acheive this.

 

You have envisioned yourself as a premium brand-being one of the more expensive solutions, that leads the market, continue to behave as such and in this you need to consider that your speakers are speakers not computers, your tech platform must always be ocmpliant to that so your customers continue to buy your products.

 

If you choose a tech platform solution that is inferior from cost perspective ( I mean 4 GB of memory wasn’t unobtainable when you started building your units-costwise, lessons of memory need has bee around since the 90s), then you need to have another track for upgrading that tech platform than you have today.

 

Do anything else and I can promise you failure

 


I have a feeling the entire company is in turmoil.  I was working with some great support folks over the last 2 weeks to nail down some Sonosnet issues and now I can’t get anyone to respond.  The engineer/hi-tier folks are booked out over a week now and I don’t dare contact their offshore-contracted support.  Maybe they are all at an emergency offsite meeting trying to right the ship.  Hope they do because like so many, I invested not only a lot of money but a lot of personal time over the years building out my Whole-Home-Audio system and while I absolutely hate this management debacle I want my system to continue to work TOGETHER, not split!  

M
Userlevel 2

I have sent a message to the CEO of Sonos expressing my displeasure and disappointment in the company.  I suggest everyone do the same.

 

Patrick.Spence@sonos.com

H
Badge

Although the jan/22 CEO message points in a better direction, this still needs a lot of improvement.

One would think that after the bricking of controllers you would have learned.

Hi-Fi is not a phone which people expect to get obsolete. Especially a whole house system with thousands invested. What your users expect:​​​​​​

  1. Devices to remain operable for as long as possible, even if they don't have all NEW features. That means keeping the streaming services we use functioning. You don't need a ton of memory or processing to keep existing features.
  2. Devices to remain interoperable between new and old, as has always been the case. That means we need to be able to group old and new devices while playing.

You need much better communications, PR and crisis management if you are to keep your customers loyal. Get your act together you you'll destroy the brand.

I've been a loyal customer for over a decade with 9 zones and am an evangelist, bringing many new customers to Sonos. I hope you find a reasonable solution to this hole you've put yourselves into.

An unsatisfactory solution will mean thousands of your customers will no longer trust you with a single cent. Sonos is a long term commitment. Long term commitments require trust. You're managing to lose ours.

N
Userlevel 3

The Apollo 11 spacecraft had 32k in RAM.  The Connect literally has 1,000 times the RAM it took to send man to the moon and it can’t stream mp3s anymore?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

U
Userlevel 1

So, I’ve been a Sonos customer since 2008 (if not earlier).  I have always waxed lyrical about this system and still suggest it’s the consumers weapon of choice for ease and functionality.

i have two play 5’s that will need replacing then, and I even get, to a point, why some of these upgrades, after 9 years might be needed.  The issue however is cost and ethics. Plain and simple. In a environment crisis, to be suggesting we throw away and upgrade working hardware is frankly irresponsible.  Back to cost then.….to suggest a 30% discount simply takes me back to what I paid for them new all those years ago, no better.  Get us a decent discount, especially if we’re forced to disable the other ones to landfill...nobody gains here, the environment, or the client....

D
Userlevel 1

Hi, you tell us that our Legacy products that you have been selling recently will be phased out! I am thankfull that I bought my Sonos 5 years ago, how can you sell something one year and then say that you are phasing it out the next. If I change to your modern products will they be phased out in 5 years? I am sorry, you sell a quality product but if it is phased out every 5 years then maybe I should buy something cheaper!

And I am not happy with the new format, I loved going through all the playlists and choosing something from random, now there are fewer playlists and half of them you have chosen for me!!!!

I am now looking at alternatives and like many others have done i am now stopping recommending Sonos.

Dumfries

M
Userlevel 7
Badge +4

I have sent a message to the CEO of Sonos expressing my displeasure and disappointment in the company.  I suggest everyone do the same.

 

Patrick.Spence@sonos.com

Good luck. Now they are sending canned replies. 

M
Userlevel 7
Badge +4

So, I’ve been a Sonos customer since 2008 (if not earlier).  I have always waxed lyrical about this system and still suggest it’s the consumers weapon of choice for ease and functionality.

i have two play 5’s that will need replacing then, and I even get, to a point, why some of these upgrades, after 9 years might be needed.  The issue however is cost and ethics. Plain and simple. In a environment crisis, to be suggesting we throw away and upgrade working hardware is frankly irresponsible.  Back to cost then.….to suggest a 30% discount simply takes me back to what I paid for them new all those years ago, no better.  Get us a decent discount, especially if we’re forced to disable the other ones to landfill...nobody gains here, the environment, or the client....

Check out their ethical responsibility statements on their website. Pure nonsense. 

H
Userlevel 6
Badge +3


This is a current SONOS advert.

It states that you can ‘Build your system’ and ‘expand it any time’.

Looks like somebody forgot to tell the advertising department, that the management has changed it’s mind about all of that.

No, you cannot any longer expand your system unless you throw away all the stuff we sold you 5 years ago.

A
Userlevel 3
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Good luck. Now they are sending canned replies. 

Oh sure, they can figure out how to send an out of office message but can’t figure out how to get Dixie to whistle on all of my products after May!

M
Userlevel 7
Badge +4


This is a current SONOS advert.

It states that you can ‘Build your system’ and ‘expand it any time’.

Looks like somebody forgot to tell the advertising department, that the management has changed it’s mind about all of that.

No, you cannot any longer expand your system unless you throw away all the stuff we sold you 5 years ago.

Man, false advertising. 

H
Userlevel 6
Badge +3


This is a current SONOS advert.

It states that you can ‘Build your system’ and ‘expand it any time’.

Looks like somebody forgot to tell the advertising department, that the management has changed it’s mind about all of that.

No, you cannot any longer expand your system unless you throw away all the stuff we sold you 5 years ago.

Man, false advertising. 



Indeed.

I’m taking it to UK Trading Standards.
They’ll have to pull all those adverts pretty fast!

​​​​​​​

A
Userlevel 1
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I feel like any messages this far into the thread are just shouting into the void, but I have to repeat what so many others have.  I have thousands of dollars worth of Sonos products, and had plans on purchasing, at minimum, a sub, two ones, and a move within the next 6-12 months.  This precedent is really scary, and I will certainly be holding onto my money until I see how this situation works out in May, but realistically I will be skeptical until a few additional updates come out after May, to see how the system is affected.

I spent several hundred dollars on devices that would allow my high end speakers that I’ve owned since before Sonos existed to work with my Sonos ecosystem.  The speakers from 1972 are still working just as well as they did the day they were purchased, but my Connects from a few years ago are already in need of replacement.  

I feel like I’ve been made a sucker by a brand that I’ve been touting to my friends and family for years.  

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +8

Here is what I sent to the CEO at Sonos. I expect he won’t have time to read it, never mind answer it, but I’m hoping it’s because he’s on the case pushing for clarity and a solution that will satisfy most of us.

 

Hi Patrick,

 

This is the first email I have ever sent to a CEO to complain about their product or service. I’m writing this on my iPad Pro, which I understood will likely last 5 years of full use & then as a basic tool for a function or two. My expectations were set. 

 

In contrast with my Sonos system, I bought a 11 unit system over several years, including a complete 5.1 Sonos system. 6 of which will become legacy in May. The brand has built up a very loyal following due to the longevity of support & updates. Only the CR100 & iPhone dock have been removed during Sonos’s 18 year history. Those decisions were completely understandable. Sonos is viewed as the equivalent Apple in the sound streaming world. Like many of your loyal customers, we have recommended Sonos to our friends & family. Inevitably, they succumb and buy lots of units and so this repeats thousands of times. You can’t buy that.

 

However, after your announcement a few days ago, my view of Sonos has been changed, possibly forever. Here are my concerns.

 

1. Even after the 30% discount, I estimate an additional cost of approaching £2000! That’s a cost I’m not prepared to take on, especially as I don’t know when the rest of my system will become legacy. Then another £2000? So, I will be on a cycle of spending possibly £2000 every 5 years just to listen to music, radio and for a 5.1 experience. 

 

2. Sonos is regarded as a premium brand which attracts a premium price. With the many competitors in the market and this wake up call of having to refresh several devices every 5 to 10 years, I’d rather buy a cheaper device to reduce the costs of updating.

 

3. The confusion and countless unanswered questions is incredible and shows how unprepared the organisation were for such an uproar from loyal customers. Your excellent reputation for support has been greatly damaged. 

 

4. It’s not beyond the ability of Sonos R&D to find a solution to allow legacy products to work with the newer devices. Naturally, as newer services are released, the legacy won’t be able to use them. But as stated earlier, most customers use the system for streaming music, listening to radio or stream local MP3s etc. Maybe Sonos can sell a box that acts as an interface between the 2 systems to simply stream music, radio & other basic services. I would buy that!

 

5. Apple have released updates that older devices will install what is designated as applicable for that device and those that aren’t, are not installed. Yet, on the newer devices, they get the full update.

 

6. We as customers understand that Sonos has to answer to shareholders and to explain how they will grow the business. Your competitors are growing their portfolio quicker and cheaper. I’m assuming that the cost of support for legacy systems is prohibitive. Yet, the negative response from your customers is probably going to do more damage than you imagine. Look on Amazon, social media, your forums. Read them all and you will understand the risk you are taking on, if Sonos do not provide a solution that solves some of these issues. We want basic services to continue on legacy devices and a box or other solution to allow that to be shared across both systems. We don’t need the latest and greatest on the legacy side.

 

7. You must inform all your resellers and yourselves to make a clear note on Sonos soon to be legacy devices, that they should buy the newer devices or at least warn them of the restrictions. I haven’t seen that. Why not? 

 

8. The next week and month will be crucial for Sonos and your communication must be clear and to the point. Nobody but the very few customers are going to buy or upgrade their Sonos system until there is clarity. That will be a big hit to your bottom line.

 

I sincerely wish you the best and hope this lapse in strategy won’t result in any further damage. The ball is in your court and all of your customers are anxiously waiting for the next step. I truly believe the future of the company is at a crossroads here and I hope you choose the right path for your current & future customers.

 

Have a good weekend.

 

Best Regards,

M

 

PS. Please do not refer me to your statement that you made yesterday. It’s not enough.

 

 

 

Act in haste, repent at leisure.
D

I have been one of the most early adopters of Sonos for more than 10 years.

I have equiped 7 different rooms in my home.

I was pushing all friends and relatives to buy Sonos products.

I feel so desappointed and furious by Sonos attitudes. I shows disrespect to customers.

From now on, I stopp buying any Sonos products (I was on the verge to equip a new appartment for my kids).

Waiting to see if Sonos really changes in the 6 next months to definitely quitt to competition or remains.

Only proof can make me changes, not promesses.

chickentender

Okay, everyone is venting their anger which is normal.

But can we for a second talk about what options us “legacy” users have after May.

We actually listen to the same, maybe 5 streaming radio channels. Today via Tunein Radio in our house when we dont stream music from our NAS.

 

Lets say that TuneIn changes something, making me unable to connect to the radio channels because sonos legacy devices can not decipher them.

 

I was thinking...What if i had another device that could receive the channels, recode them to some format Sonos legacy still supports and the re-cast them.


I dont know if a Raspberry pi would have enough processor power to do this, but there is an option in Sonos “Add radio station” so if i could get the Pi to receive the station, recode it and retransmit it, i would be able to stream radio channels to legacy devices for as long as the program on the PI was updated.

 

Alternatively i have a QNAP NAS that is always on, is there some app on this, that would be able to do this.

Good attitude. I’d suggest jumping off this thread, and over to another: https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-a-pragmatic-way-past-it-6836056/index4.html#post16398393

K
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

Maybe they should just rename the company BonoS - as it’s not about SOUND/audio any longer, it’s just a cash machine eating its own customer base for that pretty executive bonus based on short-term goals. 

Yes it’s emotional because even with the hours of wasted time over the years trying to get Sonosnet to behave (where all other WiFi devices play perfectly including 4k devices), fighting off useless updates that just seem to degrade - not improve the experience (including some that bricked wonderfully useful devices - controllers), we really loved the promise of music/audio throughout our home.  We loved Sonos, its products, and its people!  Jilted?  yeah as are millions now. 

They really don’t have much more time now to turn this thing around. 

W
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

Absolute farce!!

I'm one of the idiots that took the 30 percent offer and bought the play 5 gen 2.

Marginal sound improvement over my 2.5 year old play 5 gen 1. That's now on countdown to being bricked.

50 percent discount should have been offered. And if I'd heard this backtracking attempt at a solution I definitely wouldn't have felt the need to jump to my decision.

Leaves a bitter taste this Sonos, arrogance in the first degree!

I want my perfectly fine play 5 unbricked as a gesture of goodwill!

I knew I should have gone Google speaker when on sale before Christmas!

 

 

C
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

I buy all my Sonos kit from a company called Smart Home Systems which is an authorised Sonos agent in the UK.

Originally I thought you were saying you had a legacy Connect:Amp, but you don’t.  You are good till 2023 or early 2024, at least (maybe longer per Sonos), so this doesn’t impact you now. 

... I cant see SONOS ever doing this again, so pretty sure they will work to keep in the 256mb memory footprint….well I hope so. :)

Right up until they decide that they need 1024mb…  Strange that the Port only got 512mb?

 

Also strange that the one SL only got 512. Possible that since they don't do voice they don't need it, but the amp got 1gb and it doesn't do voice. Strange.

The amp probably needs memory to go from analogue to digital (mmm actually they probably all need to do that). 

all music consumed on those devices is digital from the start the only exception is “Line IN”

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