End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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A
Userlevel 4
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How anyone can’t see the CEO ‘statement’ (if it was him who wrote it) as nothing more than a half-hearted damage limitation exercise with equally vague assurances is in for a shock.

It’s a cynical ‘holding exercise’ to keep the wolves at bay. 

How come then the Chief Product Officer sold 1/3 his shares before the announcement?

Now that does speak volumes.

https://en.community.sonos.com/music-culture-the-industry-228997/interesting-interview-with-main-product-guy-millington-maybe-sheds-light-on-recent-events-6836018

 

Don’t fall for it. 

SONOS DOES *NOT* HEAR US!

W
Userlevel 3

I imagine everyone was involved in the decision. We don't know which would have been more suicidal: upsetting some customers and some bad brand publicity, or having competitive developments held back by older gear.

I don't know if Sonos has made the right decision but it isn't all pros one way and cons the other.  It never is.

 

Fair comment John, however to only offer 30% discount on replacement products is the real issue here (and the one causing anger), as I’m sure they would not be ‘out of pocket’ by offering a much more palatable 70% discount (I know the ‘typical’ margins these companies work to) - retaining customer loyalty and retention. They just didn’t think it through - absolute madness. 

Never happen. The management long term incentives will be tied to turnover and profit targets. Overpaid execs never care for customers only maximising their own short-term financial gains.

E
Userlevel 4
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One data point that probably won’t make anyone feel better, but since receiving notice this week, I got rid of 3 legacy Connect:Amps and a legacy Connect.  My system is definitely running noticeably better now - less lag, and the rooms are all recognized faster in the app.  So, at least there is a performance boost.  Additionally, I realized that the Connect Amp/Connects with mute buttons are the legacy ones.  The play/pause button indicates a modern one.  Hopefully that helps people who may want to swap their Connect Amp or Connect for a modern one through eBay (saving a bunch of money versus a new Amp).  
 

I know Sonos won’t comment on it, but I wonder if this is a prelude to adding DTS, high quality audio streams, or Dolby Atmos support.  Maybe they plan to add features this summer that really require more than 32mb of memory. 

J

As somebody who always boasted about Sonos I am beyond disappointed about the decision on this!! If they were serious about keeping CURRENT customers happy they would offered more of a discount as incentive. 30% is BS...as someone who has 6 Legacy devices it is not practical for me to upgrade! I am beyond heartbroken and disappointed!

 

John-Boston MA

C
Userlevel 5
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The only thing at this point that will change the mind of sonos is what the share price does as a result of this.

Make no mistake investors will be reading all these sorts of comments and taking a view on what this decision means for Sonos revenue.

Market opens in a couple of hours - watch this space.

I wish but the share price only dropped by 0.6% yesterday so I don’t think that investors are that worry about the whole thing.


It wasnt the media sh*tstorm while the markets were open that it is today.  Its also gathering pace with articles and threads on reddit discussing how the “hardware limitation” line, is BS.

 

Lets not forget the original xbox had 64mb of ram, so devices with just 32 should be more than capable of playing streamed audio.  This is a combination of lazy programming and a company wanting to adopt the Apple forced obsoletion of devices.   Audio devices, and specifically whole home multi thousand pound/dollar set ups are not throw away in five year hardware.

 

It would be technically possible for Sonos to offer aproduct that is a man in the middle to retain harmony over a muti device system that contains both “legacy” and current hardware.  Given they simply act as tcp clients and stream, Sonos could choose not to make products legacy for a longer period of time.  This is a smash and grab on existing customer base good will.  They even knew it would be seen as such last year.

B
Userlevel 5
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Every single SCAMOS owner I have spoken with states they will never buy or recommend SCAMOS product. Brand loyalty at it’s finest.

Sonos from leader to loser in 2020.
J
Userlevel 5
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Soon to be.  
 

SONOS

a Google company

M
Userlevel 1
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I bought my Sonos system in 2019 - Boost, Connect:Amp, and 8xPlay1 speakers. How can this be a “legacy” system when it’s only a year old. This month I added a Move to the system. It’s working well - how do change the system so I get no more updates that might break it in the future. I will never ever buy another Sonos product.

L
Userlevel 5
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Soon to be.  
 

SONOS

a Google company

Sonos would hope for that so their personal share options would make them money, there is no good reason for Google to buy except for a few million customer base extra which is small fry compared to their chromecast customer base I suspect. 

 

Sonos is also a tainted brand, Google would be interested in buying a reputable brand, not a dogs dinner of a brand.

Google certaintainly dont need Sonos technology as most of it is off the shelf or OS nowadays. Arguably Google already do it it better, its integrated in most of the worlds phones, many TVs and countless other home products.

 

 

B
Userlevel 5
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Soon to be.  
 

SONOS

a Google company

Already is, kinda. Are they not suing Googly for stealing their technology, which they blindly handed over so Googly could incorporate Assistant into it? Funny how things go.

Sonos from leader to loser in 2020.
melvimbe

Let's say that Spotify make the hypothetical fundamental change you refer to. So what? So one of my more capable units has to decode the stream and I have to group my older kit with it to be able to play it. No problem with that AT ALL. If that's what they’d announced nobody would have raised more than a grumble.

Note - THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ALREADY DO FOR THE AIRPLAY/NON-AIRPLAY UNITS.

 

Just a comment regarding this solution.  You are correct that airplay/non-airplay units operate under this fashion, but it hasn’t been exactly a satisfactory solution to customers.  It’s not uncommon for customers to be confused about how this all works, complain that their non-airplay units don’t work on their own, or that they have to group  speakers for it to work.  People have grumbled about this.

 

If as you’re suggesting, Sonos eventually used the same model in order to continue streaming Spotfiy, then people would make the same complaints as they did about airplay.  They would als be upset that Spotify is not working as it always had before.  And of course, the people who only have legacy products could not take advantage of this solution.

 

All that said, people generally do accept airplay for what it is after being informed that airplay has hardware requirements that are out of Sonos control.  They don’t like it, but they accept it.

Danny
U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Let's say that Spotify make the hypothetical fundamental change you refer to. So what? So one of my more capable units has to decode the stream and I have to group my older kit with it to be able to play it. No problem with that AT ALL. If that's what they’d announced nobody would have raised more than a grumble.

Note - THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ALREADY DO FOR THE AIRPLAY/NON-AIRPLAY UNITS.

 

Just a comment regarding this solution.  You are correct that airplay/non-airplay units operate under this fashion, but it hasn’t been exactly a satisfactory solution to customers.  It’s not uncommon for customers to be confused about how this all works, complain that their non-airplay units don’t work on their own, or that they have to group  speakers for it to work.  People have grumbled about this.

If as you’re suggesting, Sonos eventually used the same model in order to continue streaming Spotfiy, then people would make the same complaints as they did about airplay.  They would als be upset that Spotify is not working as it always had before.  And of course, the people who only have legacy products could not take advantage of this solution.

All that said, people generally do accept airplay for what it is after being informed that airplay has hardware requirements that are out of Sonos control.  They don’t like it, but they accept it.

In the situations you've outlined though, the customers are ‘at fault’ and Sonos are genuinely doing the right thing. Old hardware (as far as I am aware) can't be made to support airplay - the grouping solution is genuinely the right way of extending the function of that hardware for as long as possible.

In the ‘Spotify’ scenario, a scenario in which something has changed which the older hardware genuinely can't support then it’s absolutely fine for Sonos’ older hardware to not support it and while you're right that some users won’t understand that the user base as a whole would. 

Nobody’s expecting Sonos to work magic and make old hardware do something it can’t, they’re expecting them to make a genuine effort to keep old hardware working as it does now, not prematurely kill it to try and extort repeat purchases from customers who already gave them their money once.

S
Userlevel 4
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I bought my Sonos system in 2019 - Boost, Connect:Amp, and 8xPlay1 speakers. How can this be a “legacy” system when it’s only a year old. This month I added a Move to the system. It’s working well - how do change the system so I get no more updates that might break it in the future. I will never ever buy another Sonos product.

This is absolutely not acceptable! How can they justify this?

melvimbe

I bought my Sonos system in 2019 - Boost, Connect:Amp, and 8xPlay1 speakers. How can this be a “legacy” system when it’s only a year old.

 

 

Did you get an email saying any of your Connect:Amp was a legacy product?     If not, then your system should operate as normal.

 

 

This month I added a Move to the system. It’s working well - how do change the system so I get no more updates that might break it in the future.

 

 

It’s not a matter of updates breaking your system.  It’s actually the lack of updates in order to keep your system running as it currently does that people are concerned about.  That concern is only in regards to people who are using legacy products.  Based on what products you have and when you got them, you do not have any legacy products.

 

 

Danny
S
Userlevel 1
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I think we all still need some clear answers from the company.  The pathetic apology from CEO does not clear anything.

Are you Sonos still a premium multi room sound solution or are you chasing cheap boom boom £50 speaker millennial market? 

If the former I expect for the premium price you charge for my audio system to work 20+ years with full integration and be able to play music from NAS, listen to radio, stream music from any major streaming platform. 

For me it to ever buy anymore of your products you need to be clear right now about your plans for obselanc for all current products and end of support. 5 years will not cut it I can tell you that much.

Is there a point of buying for example a subwoofer if my playbar and play1s is going to be made legacy next year? I don't think so! 

I have never felt so betrayed by a company. I bought into your ecosystem just 3 years ago and I feel like a mug and let me tell you this is not a feeling you want from your customers! 

You need to get real very quickly and decide what is the direction you are heading for and what is your customers base. You will never win with the likes of google, amazon or apple. They will always beat you on price,  but then people don't buy their speakers to furnish to whole house with high quality sound. 

 

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

I bought my Sonos system in 2019 - Boost, Connect:Amp, and 8xPlay1 speakers. How can this be a “legacy” system when it’s only a year old. This month I added a Move to the system. It’s working well - how do change the system so I get no more updates that might break it in the future. I will never ever buy another Sonos product.

This is absolutely not acceptable! How can they justify this?


Sorry - There is no way this person bought a pre-2015 Connect:Amp in 2019 brand new unless it was from some sketchy store or they got scammed by someone.  Sonos didn’t even sell Connect Amps altogether after they replaced it with the Amp in 2019.    This story either isn’t correct or this person needs to go back to the person that sold them the legacy Connect Amp.  Sonos can’t control for this kind of scammy behavior on behalf of independent sellers. 
 

I mean I just lost $2k as a result of this announcement, which really stung, but let’s not get crazy here.

S
Userlevel 1

The SEC filing in November makes it all very clear folks.

If SONOS had come out and said… Hey folks… I KNOW that we have always promised that all hardware will continue to work in the future and when we made those claims, we didn’t really think about the changing world of technology or the cost to do that. Sadly, our company is losing money by providing on-going software support for our older products. These products are limited in what they can because they are built using older tech. Thus, we have decided to lock those devices into the current software revision so that you can continue to enjoy them as you do now. Down the road, online streaming protocols and features in software tech may change and there is a remote possibility that they will not be able to stream directly, but we will provide avenues to stream to these devices through a legacy base software that would run on the major computing platforms so you can continue to enjoy SONOS into the future.

 

OH… and if you feel the need to upgrade, you can get 30% off. :D

M
Userlevel 1
Badge +2

Thanks Danny. No I did not get an email telling me my Connect:Amp is a legacy product. I read the Sonos announcement which included the Connect: Amp in the legacy list. I’m confused - how do I tell?

E
Userlevel 4
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Thanks Danny. No I did not get an email telling me my Connect:Amp is a legacy product. I read the Sonos announcement which included the Connect: Amp in the legacy list. I’m confused - how do I tell?

This changes things.  If you have a play/pause button on the front it’s a post-2015 connect:amp with 256mb of memory (8x the pre-2015 Connect:amp).  You are still modern/will get software updates.  They were selling these through 2018 or early 2019, so under their policy, you’ll be supported until at least 2023. 

M
Userlevel 1
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I buy all my Sonos kit from a company called Smart Home Systems which is an authorised Sonos agent in the UK.

U
Userlevel 6
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This changes things.  If you have a play/pause button on the front it’s a post-2015 connect:amp with 256mb of memory (8x the pre-2015 Connect:amp).  You are still modern/will get software updates. 

Until such time as  Paddy’s bonus packet starts looking a bit thin. After that, who knows?

They’ve demonstrated they’re willing to screw their customers if they thinks it’ll make them money - why wouldn’t they do it again?

M
Userlevel 1
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Yes, my Connect:Amp has a play/pause button on the front. Until now, I’ve not been aware there are different models/versions of Connect:Amp.

E
Userlevel 4
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I buy all my Sonos kit from a company called Smart Home Systems which is an authorised Sonos agent in the UK.

Originally I thought you were saying you had a legacy Connect:Amp, but you don’t (which if someone sold you a 2015 connect amp for full price 4 years after Sonos stopped selling it would have been crazy bad).  You have a new model, which was upgraded with more memory after 2015.  Sonos says they will support models for at least 5 years after they stop selling them.  They stopped selling the newer Connect Amp in late 2018 or early 2019, so you are good till 2023 or early 2024, at least (maybe longer per Sonos), so this doesn’t impact you now. 

A

Like many other customers I am dismayed about the SONOS Legacy product announcement. However, I have read Patrick Spence's clarification and apology letter and remain confused.

He said:
Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks

Does this mean legacy and modern products will work in the same way as AirPlay and non-airplay devices i.e will they co-exist and be grouped to stream music irrespective of the new functionality implemented in modern devices (like voice control/AirPlay)? This need clarifying CLEARLY as it is the fundamental issue.  No one expects the new functionality to be rolled out to old devices forever, but they do expect them to continue functioning musically in a multi-speaker network with new and legacy speakers.  It says details are being finalised but surely this basic question can be answered simply with a yes or no. 

B
Userlevel 2

other than breaking the deafening silence of the first ~48 hrs, and an acknowledgement that “we hear you” this is the only valuable part of CEO’s message to me:

“We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.”

Until there are details on this, I don’t think the community will let up pressure and no one will be buying anything or “trading up”.  The two-separate-systems initially vaguely suggested won’t be seen as any solution, there must be some SW integration that at least makes these usable in a single system.

 

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