End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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L
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

Yes, my Connect:Amp has a play/pause button on the front. Until now, I’ve not been aware there are different models/versions of Connect:Amp.

I’m not sure anyone was. They updated the internals while keeping the name and design the same, with the button being the only difference. It’s confusing everyone. 

You can also look at the status of all of your components by logging into your account and looking at the System section - next to each component it will say either Legacy or Modern

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

Yes, my Connect:Amp has a play/pause button on the front. Until now, I’ve not been aware there are different models/versions of Connect:Amp.

I’m not sure anyone was. They updated the internals while keeping the name and design the same, with the button being the only difference. It’s confusing everyone. 

You can also look at the status of all of your components by logging into your account and looking at the System section - next to each component it will say either Legacy or Modern

There were other differences too (I compared a bunch last night).  They changed the Sonos logo during the gen 1 era and the casing has different markings.  But I agree it wasn’t widely known that they added more memory in gen 2.  They got better about advertising that with the Sonos One. 

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Like many other customers I am dismayed about the SONOS Legacy product announcement. However, I have read Patrick Spence's clarification and apology letter and remain confused.

He said:
Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks

Does this mean legacy and modern products will work in the same way as AirPlay and non-airplay devices i.e will they co-exist and be grouped to stream music irrespective of the new functionality implemented in modern devices (like voice control/AirPlay)? This need clarifying CLEARLY as it is the fundamental issue.  No one expects the new functionality to be rolled out to old devices forever, but they do expect them to continue functioning musically in a multi-speaker network with new and legacy speakers.  It says details are being finalised but surely this basic question can be answered simply with a yes or no. 

Based on everything we’ve been told, no. It means you get to have one old, slowly atrophying, Sonos network and one new Sonos network in your house that operate independently.

And note that these networks don’t have to align with any groupings you use at present. If, like me, you have a room with a Play 5, a Play 1 and a Symfonisk in it, you will now have two separate hifi systems in that room.

 

G
Userlevel 1

I buy all my Sonos kit from a company called Smart Home Systems which is an authorised Sonos agent in the UK.

Originally I thought you were saying you had a legacy Connect:Amp, but you don’t.  You are good till 2023 or early 2024, at least (maybe longer per Sonos), so this doesn’t impact you now. 

Is there a list of model numbers for the legacy\modern versions of connect and connect:amp.  I’ve just ordered a connect to replace a “legacy” connect and want to make sure its the 256mb version when it arrives. I cant see SONOS ever doing this again, so pretty sure they will work to keep in the 256mb memory footprint….well I hope so. :)

M
Userlevel 1
Badge +2

Very many thanks to everyone for taking the time and trouble to reassure me that none of my Sonos products are in the legacy category. And I’m now educated about the pre-2015 and post-2015 Connect:Amp! I wish all the best to those Sonos customers who have just discovered their Sonos kit is problematic - good luck.

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

Really!!!! You have no base to make an assumption like this, there is such a thing as a vendor having old stock. But if your ok about 2k being written off you have more money to burn than I have. Please pay for my upgrade

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

I buy all my Sonos kit from a company called Smart Home Systems which is an authorised Sonos agent in the UK.

Originally I thought you were saying you had a legacy Connect:Amp, but you don’t.  You are good till 2023 or early 2024, at least (maybe longer per Sonos), so this doesn’t impact you now. 

Is there a list of model numbers for the legacy\modern versions of connect and connect:amp.  I’ve just ordered a connect to replace a “legacy” connect and want to make sure its the 256mb version when it arrives. I cant see SONOS ever doing this again, so pretty sure they will work to keep in the 256mb memory footprint….well I hope so. :)

The easiest thing to look for seems to be a play/pause icon on the front button.  If it shows a mute button, it’s legacy.  That’s true for both the connect and connect amp. 

S
Userlevel 2

Call me old fashioned - I am reading a lot of comments giving ideas to Sonos on how they can get more money out of us: subscription, charging for software updates etc. That is the wrong path to take for existing customers ; I bought speakers (hardware) and I just want them to work in the same way as they do when I bought them and now. No need for updates or upgrades - i want them to deliver for many years just like my old wired Bose speakers connected to my old Technics amp did (before I give them away). Or have I got it wrong and went for the wrong product in the first place. It would have cost much less to have an electrician wire a few speakers around the house. Maybe some startup can work out a way to bypass Sonos and be able to use Sonos speakers as any speaker… Anyway, if this is it then I wish Sonos goes bust - I will have gambled £2500 and lost. One thing is sure, Sonos will never get a penny more from me.

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

Really!!!! You have no base to make an assumption like this, there is such a thing as a vendor having old stock. But if your ok about 2k being written off you have more money to burn than I have. Please pay for my upgrade

Selling someone 4+ year old old stock at full price instead of the upgraded model is very scammy.  But that isn’t what happened. The guy has the new Connect:amp that is modern/fine. 

G
Userlevel 2
Badge

I’m going to repeat a point I made in a previous thread about the unique situation surrounding Connect Amps. Around the time of the changeover between “old” Connect amps and the new ones (2015) it was possible to walk into a store, and buy either without knowing that one was going to be EOL’d much sooner than the other. In fact that’s what happened to me. 4 Connect amps all purchased at the same time, two are the old low memory ones, two are not.   There are consumer protection laws that should guard against this.

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

The only thing at this point that will change the mind of sonos is what the share price does as a result of this.

Make no mistake investors will be reading all these sorts of comments and taking a view on what this decision means for Sonos revenue.

Market opens in a couple of hours - watch this space.

I wish but the share price only dropped by 0.6% yesterday so I don’t think that investors are that worry about the whole thing.


It wasnt the media sh*tstorm while the markets were open that it is today.  Its also gathering pace with articles and threads on reddit discussing how the “hardware limitation” line, is BS.

 

Lets not forget the original xbox had 64mb of ram, so devices with just 32 should be more than capable of playing streamed audio.  This is a combination of lazy programming and a company wanting to adopt the Apple forced obsoletion of devices.   Audio devices, and specifically whole home multi thousand pound/dollar set ups are not throw away in five year hardware.

 

It would be technically possible for Sonos to offer aproduct that is a man in the middle to retain harmony over a muti device system that contains both “legacy” and current hardware.  Given they simply act as tcp clients and stream, Sonos could choose not to make products legacy for a longer period of time.  This is a smash and grab on existing customer base good will.  They even knew it would be seen as such last year.

mmm +0.85% pre-market! Not going down (at least for the moment)

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

Pick a product and leave 1 star review: Product obsolete within 5 years. Sonos stop supporting their products after 5 years!

https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/reviews/consumer/form?pr_page_id=one&pr_merchant_id=411151&pr_api_key=cc48e875-2a83-4fb9-a513-164a041971fa&pr_merchant_group_id=14196


When i try to leave a 1 star review i get this

 

We're sorry, an error has occurred while loading necessary components. We are looking into the problem. Please try again later.

I wonder if this somehow broke down, by “accident”

melvimbe

Let's say that Spotify make the hypothetical fundamental change you refer to. So what? So one of my more capable units has to decode the stream and I have to group my older kit with it to be able to play it. No problem with that AT ALL. If that's what they’d announced nobody would have raised more than a grumble.

Note - THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ALREADY DO FOR THE AIRPLAY/NON-AIRPLAY UNITS.

 

Just a comment regarding this solution.  You are correct that airplay/non-airplay units operate under this fashion, but it hasn’t been exactly a satisfactory solution to customers.  It’s not uncommon for customers to be confused about how this all works, complain that their non-airplay units don’t work on their own, or that they have to group  speakers for it to work.  People have grumbled about this.

If as you’re suggesting, Sonos eventually used the same model in order to continue streaming Spotfiy, then people would make the same complaints as they did about airplay.  They would als be upset that Spotify is not working as it always had before.  And of course, the people who only have legacy products could not take advantage of this solution.

All that said, people generally do accept airplay for what it is after being informed that airplay has hardware requirements that are out of Sonos control.  They don’t like it, but they accept it.

In the situations you've outlined though, the customers are ‘at fault’ and Sonos are genuinely doing the right thing. Old hardware (as far as I am aware) can't be made to support airplay - the grouping solution is genuinely the right way of extending the function of that hardware for as long as possible.

 

 

I wasn’t referring to whether it was the right or wrong solution, only about how customers reacted to that solution.

 

In the ‘Spotify’ scenario, a scenario in which something has changed which the older hardware genuinely can't support then it’s absolutely fine for Sonos’ older hardware to not support it and while you're right that some users won’t understand that the user base as a whole would. 

 

 

I don’t know that you can say that the user base as a whole would understand.  Or even if they did, it does not mean they will see it as a acceptable solution.  Some will even state that this eventual/potential scenario is something that Sonos should have advertised to them 5 years ago (or whenever) when they first bought the speakers.

 

Nobody’s expecting Sonos to work magic and make old hardware do something it can’t, they’re expecting them to make a genuine effort to keep old hardware working as it does now, not prematurely kill it to try and extort repeat purchases from customers who already gave them their money once.

 

You stated above that customers can be at fault for expecting airplay to operate in a way that is not possible given the hardware, and that some users would not understand why Spotify may hypothetically stop working as it does today.    

 

Danny
G
Userlevel 1

I buy all my Sonos kit from a company called Smart Home Systems which is an authorised Sonos agent in the UK.

Originally I thought you were saying you had a legacy Connect:Amp, but you don’t.  You are good till 2023 or early 2024, at least (maybe longer per Sonos), so this doesn’t impact you now. 

Is there a list of model numbers for the legacy\modern versions of connect and connect:amp.  I’ve just ordered a connect to replace a “legacy” connect and want to make sure its the 256mb version when it arrives. I cant see SONOS ever doing this again, so pretty sure they will work to keep in the 256mb memory footprint….well I hope so. :)

The easiest thing to look for seems to be a play/pause icon on the front button.  If it shows a mute button, it’s legacy.  That’s true for both the connect and connect amp. 


Awesome, many thanks. Have just received it and it has a play\pause button. That should keep me sorted for at least the next 5 years.

 

Now I wait for their retraction and realise I've wasted another £300 :)

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

Really!!!! You have no base to make an assumption like this, there is such a thing as a vendor having old stock. But if your ok about 2k being written off you have more money to burn than I have. Please pay for my upgrade

Selling someone 4+ year old old stock at full price instead of the upgraded model is very scammy.  But that isn’t what happened. The guy has the new Connect:amp that is modern/fine. 

Yes I can see that, the post appeared whilst I was writing the reply

J
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

Pick a product and leave 1 star review: Product obsolete within 5 years. Sonos stop supporting their products after 5 years!

https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/reviews/consumer/form?pr_page_id=one&pr_merchant_id=411151&pr_api_key=cc48e875-2a83-4fb9-a513-164a041971fa&pr_merchant_group_id=14196


When i try to leave a 1 star review i get this

 

We're sorry, an error has occurred while loading necessary components. We are looking into the problem. Please try again later.

I wonder if this somehow broke down, by “accident”

Did you try with a different number of stars? ;)

“This is a chance now to come up with a system that doesn’t cause massive planetary damage in exchange for disposable stuff,” Proctor said. (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3a8dpn/sonos-makes-it-clear-you-no-longer-own-the-things-you-buy)
S
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

Pick a product and leave 1 star review: Product obsolete within 5 years. Sonos stop supporting their products after 5 years!

https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/reviews/consumer/form?pr_page_id=one&pr_merchant_id=411151&pr_api_key=cc48e875-2a83-4fb9-a513-164a041971fa&pr_merchant_group_id=14196


When i try to leave a 1 star review i get this

 

We're sorry, an error has occurred while loading necessary components. We are looking into the problem. Please try again later.

I wonder if this somehow broke down, by “accident”

Just added another review without any issue. However it might totally pointless as they are reviewing the comments and I suppose that they will never be posted online. It is better to leave a review on TrustPilot: https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.sonos.com?languages=en

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

The only thing at this point that will change the mind of sonos is what the share price does as a result of this.

Make no mistake investors will be reading all these sorts of comments and taking a view on what this decision means for Sonos revenue.

Market opens in a couple of hours - watch this space.

I wish but the share price only dropped by 0.6% yesterday so I don’t think that investors are that worry about the whole thing.


It wasnt the media sh*tstorm while the markets were open that it is today.  Its also gathering pace with articles and threads on reddit discussing how the “hardware limitation” line, is BS.

 

Lets not forget the original xbox had 64mb of ram, so devices with just 32 should be more than capable of playing streamed audio.  This is a combination of lazy programming and a company wanting to adopt the Apple forced obsoletion of devices.   Audio devices, and specifically whole home multi thousand pound/dollar set ups are not throw away in five year hardware.

 

It would be technically possible for Sonos to offer aproduct that is a man in the middle to retain harmony over a muti device system that contains both “legacy” and current hardware.  Given they simply act as tcp clients and stream, Sonos could choose not to make products legacy for a longer period of time.  This is a smash and grab on existing customer base good will.  They even knew it would be seen as such last year.

mmm +0.85% pre-market! Not going down (at least for the moment)

I'm thinking speculators are making a move forcing price up

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

I buy all my Sonos kit from a company called Smart Home Systems which is an authorised Sonos agent in the UK.

Originally I thought you were saying you had a legacy Connect:Amp, but you don’t.  You are good till 2023 or early 2024, at least (maybe longer per Sonos), so this doesn’t impact you now. 

Is there a list of model numbers for the legacy\modern versions of connect and connect:amp.  I’ve just ordered a connect to replace a “legacy” connect and want to make sure its the 256mb version when it arrives. I cant see SONOS ever doing this again, so pretty sure they will work to keep in the 256mb memory footprint….well I hope so. :)

The easiest thing to look for seems to be a play/pause icon on the front button.  If it shows a mute button, it’s legacy.  That’s true for both the connect and connect amp. 


Awesome, many thanks. Have just received it and it has a play\pause button. That should keep me sorted for at least the next 5 years.

 

Now I wait for their retraction and realise I've wasted another £300 :)

Additional good news is that the one you have should have 256mb of memory, which is the same as the Playbar and Playbase (which they still sell), so you should be good even longer. 

M
Userlevel 1
Badge +2

Yes, my Connect:Amp has a play/pause button on the front. Until now, I’ve not been aware there are different models/versions of Connect:Amp.

I’m not sure anyone was. They updated the internals while keeping the name and design the same, with the button being the only difference. It’s confusing everyone. 

You can also look at the status of all of your components by logging into your account and looking at the System section - next to each component it will say either Legacy or Modern

That’s great, thanks. I’ve looked and all my components are marked “Modern”. It would have been easier if this was made clear in the announcement.

B

Bit late now CEO. You let the cat out of the bag.

No.1, there’s no trust now. If you want me to even think about investing in another Sonos product, I will need to know it will stay integrated. That other products I own won’t go “legacy” and impact on the rest of the system. And that a new product won’t go “legacy” and hit the buffers.

Meanwhile my customer-loyalty and purchasing decisons are on hold. And I will go elsewhere if needs be, and cut my losses, no problem.

P

So I get that as technology progresses that capabilities can no longer be supported. What confuses me is why this should brick a whole system.  Since the main functionality of a speaker is to stream music and be synced can’t a single hub correct this by offsetting the functions that can no longer be updated on the speaker to the hub?  

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

feel free to reuse everywhere 

 

also, if getting a av receiver, this year will likely see hdmi 2.1 (8k, 120fps vrr) implemented - only good if u r upgrading your tv in the near future. for me, the current 4k 60fps is fine with me.

new av receivers announced possibly march-april for Yamaha

Denon - may / september.

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

 

In the ‘Spotify’ scenario, a scenario in which something has changed which the older hardware genuinely can't support then it’s absolutely fine for Sonos’ older hardware to not support it and while you're right that some users won’t understand that the user base as a whole would. 

I don’t know that you can say that the user base as a whole would understand.  Or even if they did, it does not mean they will see it as a acceptable solution.  Some will even state that this eventual/potential scenario is something that Sonos should have advertised to them 5 years ago (or whenever) when they first bought the speakers.

I’m pretty sure the average man on the street understands that a given generation of hardware has limitations, given that that applies to every piece of equipment that can take updates. Phones, laptops, sat navs, you name it.

You’re right, there will be some individuals that don’t, but so what? There are always kooks and outliers. I can tell you for certain that Sonos announcing that ‘due to Spotify’s dramatic, game changing update to the way their streaming service works* your Play 5 can no longer support Spotify due to hardware limitations’ would not produce 130 pages of customers promising never to buy Sonos hardware again.

* = note that this level of change to one of the streaming services is totally hypothetical. There’s no reason for them to change this dramatically in the next decade(?). The basic problem of authenticating a client and sending it an audio stream is just not going to change that significantly that the Play 5 won't be able to handle it the same as it can today.

 

Nobody’s expecting Sonos to work magic and make old hardware do something it can’t, they’re expecting them to make a genuine effort to keep old hardware working as it does now, not prematurely kill it to try and extort repeat purchases from customers who already gave them their money once.

You stated above that customers can be at fault for expecting airplay to operate in a way that is not possible given the hardware, and that some users would not understand why Spotify may hypothetically stop working as it does today.    

I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Could you restate the point, please?

spydrwebb
Badge +7

I'm trying to remain patient and see how this all truly plays out in the end, but this soft apology is making that more difficult.

My $4200 investment is safe, for now. But time will tell if it all pans out to be a very foolish choice on my part.

I don’t expect forever support, but Sonos can do better. After all, these are premium components at a much higher price point than several of their counterparts, so that competitive advantage must be felt not implied.

Beam, Sub, 2 x P:1 -- 5.1 (video) / 2 x P:3 (music) / 2 x gen1 One (music) ----> ever evolving setup, as they say...
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