End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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A

I’ve bought easily over a thousand dollars worth of your products, which are well made and will probably last for some time. But now you’re telling me that all my Sonos products have an expiration date before they break from regular wear and tear!? So basically when I buy speakers from Sonos, I’m essentially leasing them for a limited amount of time? I’m pretty sure I would have considered myself a loyal client of Sonos, but now I will no longer buy Sonos products nor will I recommend them to friends and family (I have at least 3 or 4 family/friends who have bought Sonos on my recommendation). 

 

Good work guys (I said sarcastically). 

G
Userlevel 6
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other than breaking the deafening silence of the first ~48 hrs, and an acknowledgement that “we hear you” this is the only valuable part of CEO’s message to me:

“We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.”

Until there are details on this, I don’t think the community will let up pressure and no one will be buying anything or “trading up”.  The two-separate-systems initially vaguely suggested won’t be seen as any solution, there must be some SW integration that at least makes these usable in a single system.

 

So how will this split system work with my paired play 5’s (legacy) + Sub (not legacy)….. it wont!

 

Exactly…. it will not work…. you just lost your system

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

Thanks Danny. No I did not get an email telling me my Connect:Amp is a legacy product. I read the Sonos announcement which included the Connect: Amp in the legacy list. I’m confused - how do I tell?

This changes things.  If you have a play/pause button on the front it’s a post-2015 connect:amp with 256mb of memory (8x the pre-2015 Connect:amp).  You are still modern/will get software updates.  They were selling these through 2018 or early 2019, so under their policy, you’ll be supported until at least 2023. 


Not true.  My connect Amps have a play pause button, but are all listed as legacy.

 

They look like this?  With that symbol on the play/pause button?  Are you in the US?
 

 

B
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

other than breaking the deafening silence of the first ~48 hrs, and an acknowledgement that “we hear you” this is the only valuable part of CEO’s message to me:

“We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.”

Until there are details on this, I don’t think the community will let up pressure and no one will be buying anything or “trading up”.  The two-separate-systems initially vaguely suggested won’t be seen as any solution, there must be some SW integration that at least makes these usable in a single system.

 

So how will this split system work with my paired play 5’s (legacy) + Sub (not legacy)….. it wont!

 

Exactly…. it will not work…. you just lost your system

And to expand on that… 

So, the play 1 is also done, replaced by the One on October 24, 2017. So by all accounts mentioned here, in 2-1/2 years it will become legacy (5 years after it was discontinued).
Now, there is something to cheer me up.

Sonos from leader to loser in 2020.
User884294
Userlevel 2
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I’ve been an avid evangelistic customer since 2005.

When competitive lines offered greater functionality (Home Theatre Setup ATMOS etc.) I’ve stuck with SONOS because I felt part of something big. I felt SONOS was about quality kit and a great customer rapport with its loyal fan base. Allowing me to easily justify big financial expenses in buying SONOS products. 

I’ve had nearly every single product line that’s come out. I still have my SONOS speakers hooked up (yes remember them, actual speakers) which I bought back in 2005.

I currently have 12 zones online (four zones offline, ZP100 x 2 and ZP120 x 2) the offline zones are earmarked for ceililng speakers in renovations across our home. Which include bathrooms and living room. 

So today and on reflection of the recent legacy scandal, coupled with how I feel as a loyal customer, I have a choice to make.

And the decision has been made, I will not purchase another single bit of SONOS kit. Today I am no longer an ‘avid evangelistic customer’. So I'm moving on and this is how I will do it:

  1. Formulate a plan to phase out our large collection of SONOS products in our home. Through selling each item quickly to finance a competitive ecosystem. The quicker this is done the more value my SONOS products hold. 
  2. Quickly start purchasing said new ecosystem to satisfy renovation needs.

I’m disappointed but actually feel a little relieved that I’ve made this decision after investing so much money and energy in the last 15 years with SONOS.

Lastly, proponents will defend to the hilt what SONOS are doing, however SONOS should not take refuge behind such defence. Any one with a decent bit of common sense will realise from forums posts and social media natterings across the interwebs that SONOS have fumbled massively. Couple this with the advent of cheaper devices from companies with much bigger financial clout such as Amazon and Google means this is truly the beginning of the end of SONOS.

I wish everyone the best.

Kind regards

M

 

 

 

 

G
Userlevel 1

Thanks Danny. No I did not get an email telling me my Connect:Amp is a legacy product. I read the Sonos announcement which included the Connect: Amp in the legacy list. I’m confused - how do I tell?

This changes things.  If you have a play/pause button on the front it’s a post-2015 connect:amp with 256mb of memory (8x the pre-2015 Connect:amp).  You are still modern/will get software updates.  They were selling these through 2018 or early 2019, so under their policy, you’ll be supported until at least 2023. 


Not true.  My connect Amps have a play pause button, but are all listed as legacy.

 

They look like this?  With that symbol on the play/pause button?  Are you in the US?
 

 


Have just set up my new connect “with a play pause button” not “mute button” and it displays as Modern when I list my system on the SONOS site.  My older one says legacy. Think that's good news...

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

Thanks Danny. No I did not get an email telling me my Connect:Amp is a legacy product. I read the Sonos announcement which included the Connect: Amp in the legacy list. I’m confused - how do I tell?

This changes things.  If you have a play/pause button on the front it’s a post-2015 connect:amp with 256mb of memory (8x the pre-2015 Connect:amp).  You are still modern/will get software updates.  They were selling these through 2018 or early 2019, so under their policy, you’ll be supported until at least 2023. 


Not true.  My connect Amps have a play pause button, but are all listed as legacy.

 

They look like this?  With that symbol on the play/pause button?  Are you in the US?
 

 


Have just set up my new connect “with a play pause button” not “mute button” and it displays as Modern when I list my system on the SONOS site.  My older one says legacy. Think that's good news...

Yes.  That’s how they all broke down for me in the pile I had.  The ones with play/pause buttons were modern and the ones with the mute symbol were legacy.  Maybe Sonos/Ryan can confirm.

D
Userlevel 7
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People are funny….

There are a lot off used Connect:Amp's coming for sale now in  the Netherlands (40 x since yesterday) for around € 275,00 - 350,00 !!!!

“Hardly ever used, perfect condition, like new!”  But no word about legacy products…..

Wenn asked about it, they tell you it is working perfectly and critical updates will be available. So they all know but are trying to get rid of their legacy product for big money :rolling_eyes:  

This is also bad pr for the Sonos brand!  you have to be a  “specialist” before buying second hand Sonos products. It is becoming an even bigger risk now…..
 


Yeah, in Denmark, there were atleast 15 Play 5’s put up for sale as “Working fine”

One guy even has a package of 2 Play 5’s, one Play 3 and one Amp.


Poor sod that buys that package, only to find that he essentially bought a Play 3 and a bunch of landfill material.

 

Not to mention that there is a great risk that some of these play 5s will be “sold” to Sonos for a 30% off, right before being shipped to the poor buyer that will then have a paperweight, 3 weeks later.
 

R
Userlevel 6
Badge +2

Thanks Danny. No I did not get an email telling me my Connect:Amp is a legacy product. I read the Sonos announcement which included the Connect: Amp in the legacy list. I’m confused - how do I tell?

This changes things.  If you have a play/pause button on the front it’s a post-2015 connect:amp with 256mb of memory (8x the pre-2015 Connect:amp).  You are still modern/will get software updates.  They were selling these through 2018 or early 2019, so under their policy, you’ll be supported until at least 2023. 


Not true.  My connect Amps have a play pause button, but are all listed as legacy.

 

They look like this?  With that symbol on the play/pause button?  Are you in the US?
 

 

 

That’s what my Connect:Amp looks like and it will be legacy in May.  

EDIT - I’m not near it now but I think mine has a mute symbol.  It’s INFURIATING that they look so alike.  I bought mine in 2017.  HAD I KNOWN THERE WERE DIFFERENT VERSIONS I WOULDN’T HAVE BOUGHT IT.  Seems to me the different versions were obfuscated on purpose, which smacks of greed or laziness or both. 

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

Those are the two legacy versions of the Connect:Amp that I have seen.  Notice both have a mute symbol on the button, but the Sonos logo on the first one is older.  The newer Sonos logo was also later used with the play/pause button.  That’s the modern version.  So the modern one looks like this (sorry the photos keep rotating when I upload them):

 

I
Userlevel 4
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Here’s an extract from the BBC news item yesterday :

 

Owners who have systems that include both older and newer Sonos speakers will have to be set up two speaker groups to allow the correct updates to come through. Once a single speaker in a system can no longer receive new software it prevents the rest of the system from receiving updates.

 

I am one seriously disgruntled major owner of legacy and modern units, and have periodically upgraded when I’ve found something useful in the capabilities of the newer units; happy to do so since it’s my choice.

 

The text extract in red font above potentially provides me with a glimmer of hope:

  • We’ve all experienced situations when software updates have failed to complete rendering the system temporarily inoperable;
  • Suppose a new feature in development, such as High Res or Dolby Atmos, has software handling capacity requirements beyond the reach of the legacy items;
  • Trying to load this update across the system of legacy and modern units would presumably fail;
  • a logical solution would be to split the components into legacy and modern for the purpose of the software updates to make the update successful;
  • On subsequent playback, legacy and modern units could operate seamlessly if the features requested (grouping; playback; search; stream (current res)) only required the lowest common denominator of software (eg current release);
  • However, an attempt to play something like high res through the legacy items would presumably fail and any attempt to group legacy units with modern for these beyond current scope features would fail, or drop from the group, legacy players in capable of executing the command;
  • This seems very logical and wholly acceptable to me since once again I can group for lower level requirements and group new components should I so wish.  I’d be happy to upgrade to newer equipment over time if I so wished to access these features in more zones.

 

The BBC article, particularly with the focus of discussion being around software access gateways, makes me think these kind of arrangements may be behind the thinking.  If so, a statement of clarity of modus operandi (without revealing commercially sensitive info on what features may be coming) would allay the concerns of most.

MotleyMe
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I am with the crowd that is really upset with this announcement.  I too am an early adopter of Sonos.  This “change” means that thousands of dollars of investment in a great sound system was foolishly spent. 

In addition after spending over $2000 on Play:5s, you are telling me for another $1400 I can replace my Play:5s with lower quality Sonos Moves?!?!   How does that even make sense!   At least your upgrade program should be like for like!  And a discount for more the 30% would be better.

I am soooo mad that I am considering ditching my whole Sonos installations.

Sonos you really need to take better care of your early loyal customers as they are the ones who keep buying more speakers to expand their systems. (like me)

 

Best

...and remember … it says their new devices will now be supported with software updates for only 5 years …. Who would buy this price of product with such short-term built-in obsolescence.  That’s more like a mobile phone than a home speaker system! They’re trying to blackmail us into paying 70% of the cost we already paid for an updated version of something that is pristine, works fine and is nowhere near the end of it’s life. The new products of course need absolutely endless updates to point of the system being a complete pain in the nick-nacks!  This may suit Sonos but it doesn’t suit me and their customer base is all they have… Great eco credentials too Sonos! 

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

Here’s an extract from the BBC news item yesterday :

 

Owners who have systems that include both older and newer Sonos speakers will have to be set up two speaker groups to allow the correct updates to come through. Once a single speaker in a system can no longer receive new software it prevents the rest of the system from receiving updates.

 

I am one seriously disgruntled major owner of legacy and modern units, and have periodically upgraded when I’ve found something useful in the capabilities of the newer units; happy to do so since it’s my choice.

 

The text extract in red font above potentially provides me with a glimmer of hope:

  • We’ve all experienced situations when software updates have failed to complete rendering the system temporarily inoperable;
  • Suppose a new feature in development, such as High Res or Dolby Atmos, has software handling capacity requirements beyond the reach of the legacy items;
  • Trying to load this update across the system of legacy and modern units would presumably fail;
  • a logical solution would be to split the components into legacy and modern for the purpose of the software updates to make the update successful;
  • On subsequent playback, legacy and modern units could operate seamlessly if the features requested (grouping; playback; search; stream (current res)) only required the lowest common denominator of software (eg current release);
  • However, an attempt to play something like high res through the legacy items would presumably fail and any attempt to group legacy units with modern for these beyond current scope features would fail, or drop from the group, legacy players in capable of executing the command;
  • This seems very logical and wholly acceptable to me since once again I can group for lower level requirements and group new components should I so wish.  I’d be happy to upgrade to newer equipment over time if I so wished to access these features in more zones.

 

The BBC article, particularly with the focus of discussion being around software access gateways, makes me think these kind of arrangements may be behind the thinking.  If so, a statement of clarity of modus operandi (without revealing commercially sensitive info on what features may be coming) would allay the concerns of most.

I think that’s the plan. You’ll be able to group legacy with legacy and new with new, but not group a legacy speaker with a newer one because they will reside on separate Sonos networks.  I also hope this is because DTS, DD+, (maybe Atmos?) and some high res solution are coming. 

G
Userlevel 2
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Those are the two legacy versions of the Connect:Amp that I have seen.  Notice both have a mute symbol on the button, but the Sonos logo on the first one is older.  The newer Sonos logo was also later used with the play/pause button.  That’s the modern version.  So the modern one looks like this (sorry the photos keep rotating when I upload them):

 

And in 2015 both kinds were in the marketplace, without any description distinguishing the difference, so people like me bought a mix without knowledge or understanding of the difference……...until now. Does that seem right?? Same price, same name, different life and functionality…….

N

I expect that even the oldest products can be used together with the latest products. If that means that certain future functionalities wont work on older devices - so be it. But that I cannot use them together with my new devices is an absolute no go. If that is the SONOS strategy going forward I will be forced to look for an alternative which will suit my needs also on the long term.

 

I cannot express how disappointed and angry I am after having spent so much money on these products.

Nick - A long term Sonos Client who will now seek for alternatives

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

I am with the crowd that is really upset with this announcement.  I too am an early adopter of Sonos.  This “change” means that thousands of dollars of investment in a great sound system was foolishly spent. 

In addition after spending over $2000 on Play:5s, you are telling me for another $1400 I can replace my Play:5s with lower quality Sonos Moves?!?!   How does that even make sense!   At least your upgrade program should be like for like!  And a discount for more the 30% would be better.

I am soooo mad that I am considering ditching my whole Sonos installations.

Sonos you really need to take better care of your early loyal customers as they are the ones who keep buying more speakers to expand their systems. (like me)

 

Best

...and remember … it says their new devices will now be supported with software updates for only 5 years …. Who would buy this price of product with such short-term built-in obsolescence.  That’s more like a mobile phone than a home speaker system! They’re trying to blackmail us into paying 70% of the cost we already paid for an updated version of something that is pristine, works fine and is nowhere near the end of it’s life. The new products of course need absolutely endless updates to point of the system being a complete pain in the nick-nacks!  This may suit Sonos but it doesn’t suit me and their customer base is all they have… Great eco credentials too Sonos! 

That’s not what it says. What it says is 5 years after they stop selling the product.  So if you buy a Beam, which has been on the market for a year and will likely be sold for at least 5 years, you then get 5 years minimum after that.  So 10 years.   Note that 10 years for tech is a really long time.  The original iPhone came out 13 years ago, for instance.  There was no Samsung Galaxy or tablets or anything.  Totally different universe.  Who even knows if we’ll still be using iPhones in 10 years or what the next devices will require to interface with Sonos.  

I
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

Not quite what Im hoping for : I’d like to be able to group ALL where they have software in common (the lowest level denominator) and only the modern when the software is beyond the handling capabilities of the legacy units i.e. only when using the newer, memory hungry features would a whole home group not be possible.  I wouldn't like to see a permanent wall between modern and legacy units unnecessarily 

B
Userlevel 5
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The only thing at this point that will change the mind of sonos is what the share price does as a result of this.

Make no mistake investors will be reading all these sorts of comments and taking a view on what this decision means for Sonos revenue.

Market opens in a couple of hours - watch this space.

I wish but the share price only dropped by 0.6% yesterday so I don’t think that investors are that worry about the whole thing.


It wasnt the media sh*tstorm while the markets were open that it is today.  Its also gathering pace with articles and threads on reddit discussing how the “hardware limitation” line, is BS.

 

Lets not forget the original xbox had 64mb of ram, so devices with just 32 should be more than capable of playing streamed audio.  This is a combination of lazy programming and a company wanting to adopt the Apple forced obsoletion of devices.   Audio devices, and specifically whole home multi thousand pound/dollar set ups are not throw away in five year hardware.

 

It would be technically possible for Sonos to offer aproduct that is a man in the middle to retain harmony over a muti device system that contains both “legacy” and current hardware.  Given they simply act as tcp clients and stream, Sonos could choose not to make products legacy for a longer period of time.  This is a smash and grab on existing customer base good will.  They even knew it would be seen as such last year.

Exactly. it's really a simple solution...  all they had to do was create a new LOW COST bridge product that would tie to your streaming services and re-stream within your LAN to the legacy products...  
New stream in and legacy stream out. Piece o’piss.

Sonos from leader to loser in 2020.
R
Userlevel 6
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That second email should have simply said “we know you are upset about the previous email.  Sorry it was poorly worded.  Please stay tuned as I try to figure out exactly what is going on and convey it in a manner that isn’t confusing.”

All it did was reiterate what we’re already pissed off about.  What do you mean “Split network for legacy devices”?? Meh. 

L
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

Those are the two legacy versions of the Connect:Amp that I have seen.  Notice both have a mute symbol on the button, but the Sonos logo on the first one is older.  The newer Sonos logo was also later used with the play/pause button.  That’s the modern version.  So the modern one looks like this (sorry the photos keep rotating when I upload them):

 

And in 2015 both kinds were in the marketplace, without any description distinguishing the difference, so people like me bought a mix without knowledge or understanding of the difference……...until now. Does that seem right?? Same price, same name, different life and functionality…….

Have found on ebay an AMP with a serial starting 1412, indicating it was manufactured in 2014, but it has the new logo and play/pause button. Am assuming this is ‘modern’, but is that a gamble?

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

I think that’s the plan. You’ll be able to group legacy with legacy and new with new, but not group a legacy speaker with a newer one because they will reside on separate Sonos networks.  I also hope this is because DTS, DD+, (maybe Atmos?) and some high res solution are coming. 

But that is still a bit of kick in the nuts, as some people have a playbar and then 2 play 5 gen 1 as rear speakers.

In that situation the Play 5’s are just “dumb” devices that play what they are told by the playbar, and the playbar would decode the DTS and so on.

But still, basically since they are on different groups, they will not work as rear speakers for the sorround system.

 

Luckily i have Play 1’s for rear speakers so i can enjoy my sorround setup for a few more years before the one’s (And possibly the playbar) will be bricked by Sonos because they want to boost sales once again.

B
Userlevel 5
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Pick a product and leave 1 star review: Product obsolete within 5 years. Sonos stop supporting their products after 5 years!

https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/reviews/consumer/form?pr_page_id=one&pr_merchant_id=411151&pr_api_key=cc48e875-2a83-4fb9-a513-164a041971fa&pr_merchant_group_id=14196


When i try to leave a 1 star review i get this

 

We're sorry, an error has occurred while loading necessary components. We are looking into the problem. Please try again later.

I wonder if this somehow broke down, by “accident”

 

Yep same error. They don’t like a mob with pitch forks and torches!

Absolutely done on purpose.

Sonos from leader to loser in 2020.
R
Userlevel 6
Badge +2

Those are the two legacy versions of the Connect:Amp that I have seen.  Notice both have a mute symbol on the button, but the Sonos logo on the first one is older.  The newer Sonos logo was also later used with the play/pause button.  That’s the modern version.  So the modern one looks like this (sorry the photos keep rotating when I upload them):

 

And in 2015 both kinds were in the marketplace, without any description distinguishing the difference, so people like me bought a mix without knowledge or understanding of the difference……...until now. Does that seem right?? Same price, same name, different life and functionality…….

Exactly! I bought my amp in 2017 ffs.  

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

I think that’s the plan. You’ll be able to group legacy with legacy and new with new, but not group a legacy speaker with a newer one because they will reside on separate Sonos networks.  I also hope this is because DTS, DD+, (maybe Atmos?) and some high res solution are coming. 

But that is still a bit of kick in the nuts, as some people have a playbar and then 2 play 5 gen 1 as rear speakers.

In that situation the Play 5’s are just “dumb” devices that play what they are told by the playbar, and the playbar would decode the DTS and so on.

But still, basically since they are on different groups, they will not work as rear speakers for the sorround system.

 

Luckily i have Play 1’s for rear speakers so i can enjoy my sorround setup for a few more years before the one’s (And possibly the playbar) will be bricked by Sonos because they want to boost sales once again.

I mean, I agree.  It is tough given how expensive these products are.  But I can understand why something with 32 mb cannot decode high res audio over Dolby Atmos.  Unfortunately Sonos’s system is interconnected so the design, at it’s very core, requires everything to be able to have the same streaming and processing capability at a base level to communicate with the rest of the system.  They could maybe develop bridge like boxes that plug into Ethernet ports of every legacy device and maybe that would work.  But those are 10/100 ports - they may be too slow to process the data.  And, they probably don’t want to be in the business of developing and supporting that.  Not saying it’s a great result for all (it hurt me to retire 4 legacy products), but I understand it. 

J
Userlevel 2
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I have been a loyal Sonos customer for well over ten years.  I have I think 25 devices in the house - 16 are on the legacy email list.

 

Doing the math to replace the equipment - with the 30% off, it’s still almost net $8500 out of my pocket.

This is crazy!  My wife and three kids use Sonos to play- throughout the house/pool- our Itunes, Sirius, Amazon Music, etc.  We don’t do really anything fancy but simply just play music.

What are other reliable vendors that are worth considering for replacement?  It’s a tough decision, but I just don’t want to just give Sonos $8.5k so that we can continue to just play music in the house.

What exactly is the benefit of adding the memory to the units and doing the replacements?  What are the new features that we will just need to have or want at that cost?  This hasn’t really been explained or marketed well at all. 

   

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