End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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Intelebop
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@Winter S, if you purchased a Connect brand new that recently it shouldn’t be legacy. Any Connect still for sale from an official reseller should be 2015 version of the Connect which has some updated specs and is not a legacy product. In May, when the older version of the Connect becomes legacy, the 2015 Connect will continue on as a modern device. To check if you have a legacy device, you can go to your account page here: https://www.sonos.com/myaccount/system/households/devices/

I purchased my Connect in late 2016 and it’s legacy. I think moving forward you should re-number products in the same line with newer firmware to make it clearer. Eg, Play 1.1, Sonos 1.1SL. That way when you go to a retailer you can make sure you are buying the newest version.

Intelebop
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Actually I’ve just checked my account page and my Connect is listed as a modern device. I had assumed it was a legacy one as I had been notified at the end of last year it was eligible for bricking. Once again this is about Sonos wishing to maximise income by persuading people with speakers which have a few more years in them to upgrade.

L
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The more I think about this, the more I realise that my ‘legacy’ product will never, ever work with the rest of my ‘modern’ system:

I have my turntable running into a pre-amp which in turn runs into a ZP80. This then allows a line-in (the turntable) to become available to all the Sonos speakers in all other rooms and areas. 

If the system becomes split, I have nothing. Where will the ZP80’s line-in be broadcast to? Nowhere.

Surely I’m not the only one who has this use case. The ZP80 is never used to get streaming services and share these. It’s just taking a signal from another component and making it available across the Sonos network.

@ryan - Is this a correct assumption at this point? Like almost everyone else on here, I’m pretty loathed to spend money on a system that is going to quickly (in terms of expensie audio equipment) become obsolete. 

K

@ledbyexample There isn't any “if the system becomes split” till you choose to split it. So, don’t split it. Job done and status quo preserved.

L
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@ledbyexample There isn't any “if the system becomes split” till you choose to split it. So, don’t split it. Job done and status quo preserved.

Not really a great outcome is it? If I chose not to split it all the stuff I’ve bought a lot more recently will start to degrade! It’s like driving a car with the tyres gradually balding: one day ones gonna blow and the whole thing goes bad. 
 

Like many have suggested: why not build a cheap device that acts as a translator between legacy and modern? I guess the answer is always “of course not” because profits trump all. 

chickentender

@ledbyexample There isn't any “if the system becomes split” till you choose to split it. So, don’t split it. Job done and status quo preserved.

Not really a great outcome is it? If I chose not to split it all the stuff I’ve bought a lot more recently will start to degrade! It’s like driving a car with the tyres gradually balding: one day ones gonna blow and the whole thing goes bad. 
 

Like many have suggested: why not build a cheap device that acts as a translator between legacy and modern? I guess the answer is always “of course not” because profits trump all. 

I was in a similar position but with 1st gen Connect (though bought just months before silent update to that model). To be fair, if you want to remain in modern connected land, source a 2nd-hand 2nd-gen (post 2015 with the Play/Pause top controller surface button rather than a Mute button) and do a direct swap. The ZP80 was discontinued over a decade ago, and introduced more than half that again. 

I went a different route (e.g. leaving everything legacy and getting a different brand streamer) but that’s the path of least resistance. The newer Connect has 8x the memory/storage as the previous and should be good (modern status) for quite a long time.

D
Userlevel 1

Truly disappointing. as an IPO shareholder, and consistent promoter, this has been an enormous blow to the gut.

 

I always thought I could build up a system...One room at a time, investing in each area of my house. I’m surprised, discouraged, disappointed and upset that my investments are expected to last no more than 5 years before being quarantined. I am incredibly sad to no longer be promoting Sonos as a brand; I was such a fanboy. It hurts to think of the friends and family I encouraged to use this system as a long term option without knowing that this was a planned obsolescence model. 

 

(to be clear, what good is the system if “legacy” and “modern” cannot be joined together? I don’t want two separate systems.  That’s why I spent so much money...I thought I was partnering with a “whole-home” vision. In addition to those made legacy today, I hate that I can only dred for when my Play3 and Play1s become legacy. That is not the way to be excited about a product.) 

 

I never expected my stuff to work for for new features like Airplay 2.0. But I truly thought that the hardware I bought would continue to work for the services available at the time of purchase. Am I too stupid to have seen this coming? So much money wasted. 

K

 If I chose not to split it all the stuff I’ve bought a lot more recently will start to degrade!

It will NOT. If really interested in ways for that to not happen, go to:https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056

It has become an unwieldy thread, but you will find more than one way forward if you invest the time to read it. Guaranteed. And all you have to invest is your time in reading it. 

L
Userlevel 3
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 If I chose not to split it all the stuff I’ve bought a lot more recently will start to degrade!

It will NOT. If really interested in ways for that to not happen, go to:https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056

It has become an unwieldy thread, but you will find more than one way forward if you invest the time to read it. Guaranteed. And all you have to invest is your time in reading it. 

The thread you referenced is super interesting. I’m ready to bash Sonos as much as the last person, but in truth we’ve all got thousands of dollars worth of gear that we don’t just wanna throw away. I’d there *is* a way to make it work,  I’m interested. 

chickentender

 If I chose not to split it all the stuff I’ve bought a lot more recently will start to degrade!

It will NOT. If really interested in ways for that to not happen, go to:https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056

It has become an unwieldy thread, but you will find more than one way forward if you invest the time to read it. Guaranteed. And all you have to invest is your time in reading it. 

The thread you referenced is super interesting. I’m ready to bash Sonos as much as the last person, but in truth we’ve all got thousands of dollars worth of gear that we don’t just wanna throw away. I’d there *is* a way to make it work,  I’m interested. 

It isn’t going to just stop working. Not at all. It’s just out of support. I liken it to an iPad gen-2 we have sitting around. It still does everything it used to. My wife still uses it regularly. But it’s been quite some time since it was able to receive iOS updates and thusly a number of apps installed on it are also stuck at a particular version, and new apps that weren't developed with backward compatibility to that iOS version are not available for install. I suspect Sonos will be the same to lesser extent. In legacy you’ll still be able to do everything you do now, for now, but if a streaming service makes a major change to their API affecting how Sonos integrates with it, the older systems may be adversely affected. 
The last things likely to change at all are local network music library stream and basic features such as speaker grouping, line-in playback and music sync in general. It’s just the streaming services that will be the most at risk as time goes on. Those could go on for quite a very, very long time without issue.

F
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Sonos is just another greedy corporate that’s made a huge miscalculation of its customer loyalty.

Any thoughts I had of expanding my two non legacy speakers has evaporated and whatever happens now any trust in Sonos has gone.

Feel very sorry for anyone who’s invested very large sums of money .. networking their whole house with Sonos speakers etc.

The lesson I’ve learned, is that I’ll never pay hundreds of pounds for speakers that manufactures can destroy at will, ever again.

Anything that can’t be hardwired to play music is now at risk.

Any company manufacturing this type of stand alone or networked streaming speaker (with software updates) can pull the same stunt at anytime.

Buyer be very aware I’d say, it’s absolutely scandalous, but at the same time a wake up call for all music enthusiasts!! 

 

 

A
Userlevel 6
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All the tech debate and even expectation setting, communications and statement of intent from Sonos aside, the thing that surprises me is that there is so much ‘other stuff’ out there that I’d deliberately ignored.

Sonos became so pervasive for me that I never even looked what else was in the shop window.

There a lot and it’s far from poor.

So far in the last 10 days I’ve bought Tidal, Roon and reading about other hardware options which I could happily buy and play with. And I have to say I’m enjoying it and it sounds really really good. I wish I could say it didn’t.

I know enough now that if Sonos is no longer an option later year, I have options going forward. This also means my blinkered white box approach could be different.

That said (and despite the shared and huge disappointment we all feel) I hope Sonos double down, shape up and get this roadmap sorted and publish the ‘WHAT IT IS’ and ‘WHAT IT WILL NOT BE’ message to the community this week. 

I’d rather preserve a bruised but good relationship with clear lines and expectations than just get divorced. 

Sonos management please clarify were we all stand (really stand) so we can all get back to business and hopefully over time get back to were we all were. Gonna take a while.

You clarify this nonsense about new gen and legacy networks and make them play well together and 70% of these folks here will come back to the party …. eventually. And if they don’t then they had the choice and the company should learn from their actions. 

It sort of just makes sense.

H
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Hello everyone,

I’ve been watching this issue and reading this thread with total fascination! It is quite astonishing for me to see some of the reactions posted here, towards an absolutely non-critical issue. It’s only a music system we’re talking about here and it isn’t going to go up in flames after May.

 

The way I always viewed Sonos as a company and the system is that it is a mid range, good quality system with very good service by their staff (even for old products). I’ve used the service on very few occasions when something wasn’t working and they were excellent.

 

I have devices dating back to approximately 2006 and I also have some new devices, including a MOVE.

 

I’m betting on the following:

  1. My legacy items won’t have any new updates with features added after May this year. They will continue to work at least another 5 to 7 years (unless the electronics fail). This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  2. My newer devices will continue to get updates and work at least another 7 to 10 years. This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  3. Sonos will figure out a way to use one controller app to control both systems, but separately. The way I am thinking about it is that the app will have 2 sections: System A (legacy) with rooms A, B, C etc. and System B (new devices) with rooms D, E, F etc. You can then toggle in between system A and B before selecting your room / music on the App.

Why do I think this way? Because Sonos has shown over the last many years that they can maintain products with very old, outdated technology for a very long time.

Yes, it’s “only a music system” - but a relatively expensive one. Personally I don’t consider 7 to 10 years to be a decent shelf life for a premium price product. 

Regarding point 3 - I have an device arrangement where a Connect:Amp is always used with some Play 1s. So, a “sectionalised” system will not do what I am used to (paid for).

I’m feeling quite pragmatic about this - I don’t expect Sonos to deliver a solution that will enable me to continue using my system as I want to. I’ll move on, but it won’t be with Sonos as I feel let down them. In some ways that’s a shame as until two weeks ago my experience as a customer had been great. 
 

HighEndMusic I’m afraid your assumption that your legacy products will continue to function for 5 to 7 years is a little flawed. Ryan S has already confirmed in a much earlier post that they will do what they can but as soon as any of the streaming services update their software there is every chance it will not run on the legacy units. So it could be one week, one month or even a year but at some point nothing streamed will stop working at which point you are left with a product that will only play your local music library, and as Ryan S pointed out, that is only until the OS of your library system gets an update and then that too may cease to function. The speed with which updates to software happen now really does not lend itself to your 5 to 7 years, more like 5 to 7 months!

  •  

@highendmusic - most readers of this thread are able to recognize a post by Sonos public relations, so nice try.  Moreover, I suspect every post insinuating (or flat out stating) that consumers are wrong in their frustration/anger/feeling-of-betrayal/etc with Sonos does nothing but cement those feelings further.    This thread extends to 127 pages so all points that could be made on this topic probably have been; so there isn't much left to say after calling you out.  Hopefully, Sonos management will admit to itself that it made a tragic mistake and change course.  From my discussions with other Sonos costumers (including some woman I was randomly sitting next to on a plane) its clear to me that Sonos’ consumer base will not forgive and forget any time soon. 

Are you saying I’m from Sonos PR??? That’s is too funny, I have nothing absolutely nothing to do with Sonos, other than owning a few of their units.

I think I’m just someone who likes to look at the glass half full rather than half empty!

I never said that people are wrong with their frustrations, I just said that I am very surprised with the level of aggravation some people here are writing about this issue, especially the ones who write as if their equipment was going to stop working in May. I highly doubt this. Despite the most recent announcement, I don’t think Sonos will leave those “legacy” users at a complete loss after May. I think they are doing exactly the same as all software companies have been doing, just like you “can’t” use a PC running XP any more because it isn’t updated. You can still use it, just don’t expect Microsoft to support you in case of issues.

 

L
Userlevel 3
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 If I chose not to split it all the stuff I’ve bought a lot more recently will start to degrade!

It will NOT. If really interested in ways for that to not happen, go to:https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056

It has become an unwieldy thread, but you will find more than one way forward if you invest the time to read it. Guaranteed. And all you have to invest is your time in reading it. 

The thread you referenced is super interesting. I’m ready to bash Sonos as much as the last person, but in truth we’ve all got thousands of dollars worth of gear that we don’t just wanna throw away. I’d there *is* a way to make it work,  I’m interested. 

It isn’t going to just stop working. Not at all. It’s just out of support. I liken it to an iPad gen-2 we have sitting around. It still does everything it used to. My wife still uses it regularly. But it’s been quite some time since it was able to receive iOS updates and thusly a number of apps installed on it are also stuck at a particular version, and new apps that weren't developed with backward compatibility to that iOS version are not available for install. I suspect Sonos will be the same to lesser extent. In legacy you’ll still be able to do everything you do now, for now, but if a streaming service makes a major change to their API affecting how Sonos integrates with it, the older systems may be adversely affected. 
The last things likely to change at all are local network music library stream and basic features such as speaker grouping, line-in playback and music sync in general. It’s just the streaming services that will be the most at risk as time goes on. Those could go on for quite a very, very long time without issue.

Yeah. I understand it’s not going to just stop working, hence the analogy of the car with tyres going bad...it’ll keep going for quite a while until one goes bang!

I haven’t seen @ryan_s or anyone from Sonos say that speaker grouping of Legacy and Modern is going to be supported though. As I understood it, and I’m more than happy to be told I’m wrong, you’d have a Legacy group and a Modern group. Essentially taking away the ‘whole home audio’ part of Sonos. 

If all I’ll be missing out on the Legacy device is streaming services (and let’s face it, the ZP80 is practically an antique at this point!) but still be able to group it with my Modern, then I’ve got no dramas at all. 

At this point I feel like someone from Sonos should start to myth bust this thread. It’s out of control and there’s so much not known. They’ve done a terrible job of explaining what’s happening to everyone’s system and been so vague. I don’t have the time to trawl through hundreds of pages! Given how badly this has been handled, it’d be good to have another update. Clearly they haven’t heard us or they would make it easier on us and themselves to provide some more info!!

F
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

All the tech debate and even expectation setting, communications and statement of intent from Sonos aside, the thing that surprises me is that there is so much ‘other stuff’ out there that I’d deliberately ignored.

Sonos became so pervasive for me that I never even looked what else was in the shop window.

There a lot and it’s far from poor.

So far in the last 10 days I’ve bought Tidal, Roon and reading about other hardware options which I could happily buy and play with. And I have to say I’m enjoying it and it sounds really really good. I wish I could say it didn’t.

I know enough now that if Sonos is no longer an option later year, I have options going forward. This also means my blinkered white box approach could be different.

That said (and despite the shared and huge disappointment we all feel) I hope Sonos double down, shape up and get this roadmap sorted and publish the ‘WHAT IT IS’ and ‘WHAT IT WILL NOT BE’ message to the community this week. 

I’d rather preserve a bruised but good relationship with clear lines and expectations than just get divorced. 

Sonos management please clarify were we all stand (really stand) so we can all get back to business and hopefully over time get back to were we all were. Gonna take a while.

You clarify this nonsense about new gen and legacy networks and make them play well together and 70% of these folks here will come back to the party …. eventually. And if they don’t then they had the choice and the company should learn from their actions. 

It sort of just makes sense.

V good & sensible post.

The devil will be in Sonos’s detail.

G

This is a real shame I was about to buy 2/3 new Sonos apps,. I have 3 Sonos one's around the house and was going to upgrade my real audio kit to Sonos but I'm now having a re think.  This come after Sonos acquired voice assistant startup Snips.  I was using this for my home automation but Sonos shut it down.  Sonos what has happened to you if you keep this up Sonos will be no more you are aleanating people you need to keep ......

 

K


At this point I feel like someone from Sonos should start to myth bust this thread. It’s out of control and there’s so much not known. They’ve done a terrible job of explaining what’s happening to everyone’s system and been so vague. I don’t have the time to trawl through hundreds of pages! Given how badly this has been handled, it’d be good to have another update. Clearly they haven’t heard us or they would make it easier on us and themselves to provide some more info!!

@ledbyexample :A strange coincidence that this is very close to what I have said in the most recent post in my thread - different words, that’s all.

L
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At this point I feel like someone from Sonos should start to myth bust this thread. It’s out of control and there’s so much not known. They’ve done a terrible job of explaining what’s happening to everyone’s system and been so vague. I don’t have the time to trawl through hundreds of pages! Given how badly this has been handled, it’d be good to have another update. Clearly they haven’t heard us or they would make it easier on us and themselves to provide some more info!!

@ledbyexample :A strange coincidence that this is very close to what I have said in the most recent post in my thread - different words, that’s all.

Haven’t got to the end of your thread yet!! Ha ha

Guy_19
Userlevel 5
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Frustrated by Sonos Support - that’s the 2nd reply to my email where they just paste in boilerplate flannel instead of answering direct questions.  Basic customer service skills lacking.

7 rooms: One SL Stereo Pair, One SL x 2, Move, Play:5 Gen2 & Port into Arcam AVR with AE floorstanders, Port into Denon microsystem.
M
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A friend of mine was out looking at soundbars last night.  Knowing I was a huge sonos fan in the past he commented on how much he liked the sound of the playbar.  Of course I suggested he look elsewhere now.

The real issue that surprised him is that Bestbuy sells both the Beam at $500 CDN and the Playbar at $900 as current products. He much preferred the sound of the playbar (he is an audiophile so sound quality is the most important thing), and has no issue with paying extra for the Playbar because it sounds much better to him.  So I looked online at a chart regarding the ram in both units and the playbar seems to only have 128 mb of ram and the Beam has 1 gb.  Knowing that the last round of cuts to the modern products were apparently based on low ram, how can your current top of the line sound bar have one tenth ram of your lesser sound bar.  Of course a customer would not know this issue without digging very deeply as sonos is not advertised as a computer where all the specs are laid out right in front of us.  When you buy a new pc, ram and cpu speed dictate cost but not in this case.

If you posted the specs at the best buy display beside each what customer in their right mind would pay more for a tech solution with one tenth the ram of their lesser product. 

In the past no-one looked at specs because your business model meant no-one had to.  Now they do.  My friend is now looking at dumb soundbars not smart ones.

A
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At this point I feel like someone from Sonos should start to myth bust this thread. It’s out of control and there’s so much not known. They’ve done a terrible job of explaining what’s happening to everyone’s system and been so vague. I don’t have the time to trawl through hundreds of pages! Given how badly this has been handled, it’d be good to have another update. Clearly they haven’t heard us or they would make it easier on us and themselves to provide some more info!!

@ledbyexample :A strange coincidence that this is very close to what I have said in the most recent post in my thread - different words, that’s all.

 

Is why to keep asking for a statement of intention or a road-map every few days.

We can pontificate all we like and it’s interesting. But the more we tech spiral and spar, the more the real clarity is avoided.

Rather than just metaphorically kill this Spencer’s guy’s words, I prefer read the content written by Ryan S. And in a way that puts too much pressure on a foot soldier (no disrespect intended Ryan, I appreciate the comms)

It is absolutely vital at this point for there to be a management statement … not a holding PR message, you can fool folks by agreeing with them for only so long.

Now it’s substance time …  a clear statement. 

This is Marketing 101 … no cleverness, no nuances, just time for some solid ‘what it is’ and ‘what it isn’t’ time. 

Sonos …. ‘do as say and say as you do’!

Then folks can vote with their feet or their wallets.

melvimbe

For those asking for clarity, it’s worth considering that Sonos likely doesn’t have the clear answers you’re hoping for right now.  The original annoucement was that legacy products would no longer receiving any updates, bug fixes, or security patches.  That changed in a matter of 48 hours to be no updates, but would get bug fixes and security patches.  I seriously doubt Sonos has decided exactly how that’s going to be done, as well as other related functionality.  Personally, I don’t want Sonos to announce anything new about this event until there is no chance that it could change again.

 

I get that people want answers to all their questions now, and that these answers are going to effect their financial decisions going forward.  It seems best to just wait.  May will come around soon enough, and even then you don’t have to make any changes to your system right away.  There likely won’t be any functional updates for at least a month after the May update, and there is no reason you can’t skip that update (or a few after that) till you know exactly how you want to proceed.

Danny
Smilja

Come May, Sonos systems with at least one ‘legacy device’ won’t be able to upgrade to a newer firmware version anyway, unless the system has been split into a ‘modern setup’ and a ‘legacy setup’.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
K

 

If you posted the specs at the best buy display beside each what customer in their right mind would pay more for a tech solution with one tenth the ram of their lesser product. 

 

Sonos stood out for not listing specs for their speakers; rightly so because the usual ones from the world of HiFi kit are irrelevant to Sonos speaker selection. 

Are you saying that Sonos should now list the memory size as a spec item? And even if they did, the typical customer would be able to figure out how to make sense of this spec?

M
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

 

If you posted the specs at the best buy display beside each what customer in their right mind would pay more for a tech solution with one tenth the ram of their lesser product. 

 

Sonos stood out for not listing specs for their speakers; rightly so because the usual ones from the world of HiFi kit are irrelevant to Sonos speaker selection. 

Are you saying that Sonos should now list the memory size as a spec item? And even if they did, the typical customer would be able to figure out how to make sense of this spec?

Not suggesting they should.  I would prefer they go back to a model of longevity where it wouldn't matter.  But if they are going to go to shorter lifespans and use ram and processing power to determine which products become obsolete, then the fact that the top of the line playbar has one tenth the ram of the lower priced beam is very important.  Again, two weeks ago i wouldnt have worried about this and would have just happily recommended my friend buy the playbar.  I can no longer do that.

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