End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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G
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If you posted the specs at the best buy display beside each what customer in their right mind would pay more for a tech solution with one tenth the ram of their lesser product. 

 

Sonos stood out for not listing specs for their speakers; rightly so because the usual ones from the world of HiFi kit are irrelevant to Sonos speaker selection. 

Are you saying that Sonos should now list the memory size as a spec item? And even if they did, the typical customer would be able to figure out how to make sense of this spec?

This is exactly the point.  Up until now there was no reason to quote specs, and as you said we appreciated why Sonos didn't.  But Sonos has now created a differentiation in their products that has the potential to change the user experience after you buy.  That's a prime reason (and in fact perhaps required by consumer protection laws) to be transparent.  After all, the whole reason we are at 100's of pages in this thread is the lack of transparency.

O
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.  Again, two weeks ago i wouldnt have worried about this and would have just happily recommended my friend buy the playbar.  I can no longer do that.

The new Port has half the Ram of the One. Probably doesn't matter but how do we actually know a few years down the road?

Imo the cat's out of the bag with regards to specs and it ain't going back in.

 

M
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If you posted the specs at the best buy display beside each what customer in their right mind would pay more for a tech solution with one tenth the ram of their lesser product. 

 

Sonos stood out for not listing specs for their speakers; rightly so because the usual ones from the world of HiFi kit are irrelevant to Sonos speaker selection. 

Are you saying that Sonos should now list the memory size as a spec item? And even if they did, the typical customer would be able to figure out how to make sense of this spec?

This is exactly the point.  Up until now there was no reason to quote specs, and as you said we appreciated why Sonos didn't.  But Sonos has now created a differentiation in their products that has the potential to change the user experience after you buy.  That's a prime reason (and in fact perhaps required by consumer protection laws) to be transparent.  After all, the whole reason we are at 100's of pages in this thread is the lack of transparency.

Exactly.  I believe there are many vendors still selling Play Ones.  They are maybe 50 dollars cheaper than the sonos one.  All the marketing suggested the main difference was voice integration, leading many who weren't interested in voice to purchase play ones instead of ones.  Would they have made the same choice if they knew that the play one only had 128 mb of ram and the one has 1 gb? Would Costco buy massive inventories of under specd computers from a vendor.  I highly doubt it.  They likely felt they could do this because the specs were irrelevant in the past.  Now they have to be the major consideration and new customers wouldn't think to dif for them.

K

All the marketing suggested the main difference was voice integration, leading many who weren't interested in voice to purchase play ones instead of ones.  Would they have made the same choice if they knew that the play one only had 128 mb of ram and the one has 1 gb?

By selling similar looking and sounding speakers with such vast internal differences and future lives, I agree Sonos has created a mess.

But I can't see that quoting memory is the way forward. Imagine the consequence - a situation a couple of years from now if there are two speakers to choose from and the one that sounds better and/or has more features has half the memory of the other one. What then to the buying decision? Buy the poorer sounding one?!

One could say the same thing about intelligent web enabled fridges or air conditioners? That road goes to no sane place.

G
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I think that's a bit of a straw man scenario. I would guess that every new device now will have more of everything (including memory) just like in the rest of home automation.  Once Sonos gets past this "speed bump" it will be full steam ahead for a yearly " more and better" product cycle like we get with everything else.  Fact is they are competing with Google and Amazon who do this exact thing. 

K

I don't know what you mean by exact same thing; and I also don't know when my Echo Dot of 2017 will be obsoleted and won’t work. But at USD 30 a pop, that is much less of a concern. Ditto for the Chromecast.

A
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Hello everyone,

I’ve been watching this issue and reading this thread with total fascination! It is quite astonishing for me to see some of the reactions posted here, towards an absolutely non-critical issue. It’s only a music system we’re talking about here and it isn’t going to go up in flames after May.

 

The way I always viewed Sonos as a company and the system is that it is a mid range, good quality system with very good service by their staff (even for old products). I’ve used the service on very few occasions when something wasn’t working and they were excellent.

 

I have devices dating back to approximately 2006 and I also have some new devices, including a MOVE.

 

I’m betting on the following:

  1. My legacy items won’t have any new updates with features added after May this year. They will continue to work at least another 5 to 7 years (unless the electronics fail). This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  2. My newer devices will continue to get updates and work at least another 7 to 10 years. This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  3. Sonos will figure out a way to use one controller app to control both systems, but separately. The way I am thinking about it is that the app will have 2 sections: System A (legacy) with rooms A, B, C etc. and System B (new devices) with rooms D, E, F etc. You can then toggle in between system A and B before selecting your room / music on the App.

Why do I think this way? Because Sonos has shown over the last many years that they can maintain products with very old, outdated technology for a very long time.

Yes, it’s “only a music system” - but a relatively expensive one. Personally I don’t consider 7 to 10 years to be a decent shelf life for a premium price product. 

Regarding point 3 - I have an device arrangement where a Connect:Amp is always used with some Play 1s. So, a “sectionalised” system will not do what I am used to (paid for).

I’m feeling quite pragmatic about this - I don’t expect Sonos to deliver a solution that will enable me to continue using my system as I want to. I’ll move on, but it won’t be with Sonos as I feel let down them. In some ways that’s a shame as until two weeks ago my experience as a customer had been great. 
 

HighEndMusic I’m afraid your assumption that your legacy products will continue to function for 5 to 7 years is a little flawed. Ryan S has already confirmed in a much earlier post that they will do what they can but as soon as any of the streaming services update their software there is every chance it will not run on the legacy units. So it could be one week, one month or even a year but at some point nothing streamed will stop working at which point you are left with a product that will only play your local music library, and as Ryan S pointed out, that is only until the OS of your library system gets an update and then that too may cease to function. The speed with which updates to software happen now really does not lend itself to your 5 to 7 years, more like 5 to 7 months!

  •  

@highendmusic - most readers of this thread are able to recognize a post by Sonos public relations, so nice try.  Moreover, I suspect every post insinuating (or flat out stating) that consumers are wrong in their frustration/anger/feeling-of-betrayal/etc with Sonos does nothing but cement those feelings further.    This thread extends to 127 pages so all points that could be made on this topic probably have been; so there isn't much left to say after calling you out.  Hopefully, Sonos management will admit to itself that it made a tragic mistake and change course.  From my discussions with other Sonos costumers (including some woman I was randomly sitting next to on a plane) its clear to me that Sonos’ consumer base will not forgive and forget any time soon. 

Are you saying I’m from Sonos PR??? That’s is too funny, I have nothing absolutely nothing to do with Sonos, other than owning a few of their units.

I think I’m just someone who likes to look at the glass half full rather than half empty!

I never said that people are wrong with their frustrations, I just said that I am very surprised with the level of aggravation some people here are writing about this issue, especially the ones who write as if their equipment was going to stop working in May. I highly doubt this. Despite the most recent announcement, I don’t think Sonos will leave those “legacy” users at a complete loss after May. I think they are doing exactly the same as all software companies have been doing, just like you “can’t” use a PC running XP any more because it isn’t updated. You can still use it, just don’t expect Microsoft to support you in case of issues.

 

On the most fundamental level this is an issue of product misrepresentation. Sonos is a speaker brand, not a computer brand. SONOS does not publish processor and RAM specs on its product packaging. SONOS speakers were marketed as components of an integrated audio system which was "future proof" and expandable over time (just like wired speakers). This is why many people who invested in a house full of SONOS speakers were blindsided by its new 'disposable speaker' corporate philosophy.

G
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I don't know what you mean by exact same thing; and I also don't know when my Echo Dot of 2017 will be obsoleted and won’t work. But at USD 30 a pop, that is much less of a concern. Ditto for the Chromecast.

Well.....my original Chromecast is too slow, and doesn't do 4k like the new ones.  Labelled differently so buyer is aware.  But I get your point.  We are talking about quite different pricing and functionality.  

J
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I think that's a bit of a straw man scenario. I would guess that every new device now will have more of everything (including memory) just like in the rest of home automation.  Once Sonos gets past this "speed bump" it will be full steam ahead for a yearly " more and better" product cycle like we get with everything else.  Fact is they are competing with Google and Amazon who do this exact thing. 

Disagree slightly with the last statement.

They “think” they are competing with Google and Amazon. 30-100$ speakers vs 200-700$ speakers is two different markets.

I think this is what has sent them chasing and not maintaining this differentiation. They have the mid range whole home market currently but will lose to Amazon and Google on the low end. They should be focusing on their current/slipping market position.

Playbar(2) Sub(1) Play:5(2) Play:3(6) Play:1(5) Connect:AMP(3) Sonos:AMP(5) Move(1)
melvimbe

I think that's a bit of a straw man scenario. I would guess that every new device now will have more of everything (including memory) just like in the rest of home automation.  Once Sonos gets past this "speed bump" it will be full steam ahead for a yearly " more and better" product cycle like we get with everything else.  Fact is they are competing with Google and Amazon who do this exact thing. 

 

I don’t think we’ll start seeing memory specs posted for smart speakers going forward.  I don’t think people have a really good feel of how much is necessary for smart speakers, they way they have a sense of it for other devices.  Besides, it’s not just the memory that eventually becomes inferior to more modern devices as time goes on.

 

As far a yearly product cycle, that’s highly unlikely IMO.  Sonos does not have the capability to produce an entire new product line at that sort of pace they way Google and Amazon do.  Even if they did, they could not produce a significantly different feature set every year.  Honestly, Amazon and Google aren’t really improving there products that much from year to year to warrant it, but their markets are large enough, and products cheap enough, that  just being new will bring in a little extra sales to make the new product work developing.

 

Danny
K

On the most fundamental level this is an issue of product misrepresentation. Sonos is a speaker brand, not a computer brand. SONOS does not publish processor and RAM specs on its product packaging. SONOS speakers were marketed as components of an integrated audio system which was "future proof" and expandable over time (just like wired speakers). This is why many people who invested in a house full of SONOS speakers were blindsided by its new 'disposable speaker' corporate philosophy.

Well said. The typical customer is not like the resident gurus that say they saw this coming.

chickentender

 

On the most fundamental level this is an issue of product misrepresentation. Sonos is a speaker brand, not a computer brand. SONOS does not publish processor and RAM specs on its product packaging. SONOS speakers were marketed as components of an integrated audio system which was "future proof" and expandable over time (just like wired speakers). This is why many people who invested in a house full of SONOS speakers were blindsided by its new 'disposable speaker' corporate philosophy.

 

Well said. The typical customer is not like the resident gurus that say they saw this coming.

 

Indeed.
Putting aside who should or should not have seen what coming, and noting that the very last bit “disposable speaker corporate philosophy” is a touch hyperbolic, @audiophile99 has just very succinctly and aptly distilled the problem… In a nutshell, that’s precisely it.

K
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They should start labeling their products with a “best before [date])” if they are going to keep this strategy going. It’s not an investment, it is a perishable good now. 

M
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I think that's a bit of a straw man scenario. I would guess that every new device now will have more of everything (including memory) just like in the rest of home automation.  Once Sonos gets past this "speed bump" it will be full steam ahead for a yearly " more and better" product cycle like we get with everything else.  Fact is they are competing with Google and Amazon who do this exact thing. 

 

I don’t think we’ll start seeing memory specs posted for smart speakers going forward.  I don’t think people have a really good feel of how much is necessary for smart speakers, they way they have a sense of it for other devices.  Besides, it’s not just the memory that eventually becomes inferior to more modern devices as time goes on.

 

As far a yearly product cycle, that’s highly unlikely IMO.  Sonos does not have the capability to produce an entire new product line at that sort of pace they way Google and Amazon do.  Even if they did, they could not produce a significantly different feature set every year.  Honestly, Amazon and Google aren’t really improving there products that much from year to year to warrant it, but their markets are large enough, and products cheap enough, that  just being new will bring in a little extra sales to make the new product work developing.

 


I don’t think the amount of ram or CPU power has anything to do with this.  Sonos wants to see a world where all of us buy and replace our speakers every 3-5 years. 

M

I think that's a bit of a straw man scenario. I would guess that every new device now will have more of everything (including memory) just like in the rest of home automation.  Once Sonos gets past this "speed bump" it will be full steam ahead for a yearly " more and better" product cycle like we get with everything else.  Fact is they are competing with Google and Amazon who do this exact thing. 

Disagree slightly with the last statement.

They “think” they are competing with Google and Amazon. 30-100$ speakers vs 200-700$ speakers is two different markets.

I think this is what has sent them chasing and not maintaining this differentiation. They have the mid range whole home market currently but will lose to Amazon and Google on the low end. They should be focusing on their current/slipping market position.

Interesting that Sonos is in a lawsuit with Google over how Google is going after the low end with Sonos technology (but not Sonos permission.)  https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Sonos-sues-Google-over-speakers-14957491.php

F
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I think that's a bit of a straw man scenario. I would guess that every new device now will have more of everything (including memory) just like in the rest of home automation.  Once Sonos gets past this "speed bump" it will be full steam ahead for a yearly " more and better" product cycle like we get with everything else.  Fact is they are competing with Google and Amazon who do this exact thing. 

 

I don’t think we’ll start seeing memory specs posted for smart speakers going forward.  I don’t think people have a really good feel of how much is necessary for smart speakers, they way they have a sense of it for other devices.  Besides, it’s not just the memory that eventually becomes inferior to more modern devices as time goes on.

 

As far a yearly product cycle, that’s highly unlikely IMO.  Sonos does not have the capability to produce an entire new product line at that sort of pace they way Google and Amazon do.  Even if they did, they could not produce a significantly different feature set every year.  Honestly, Amazon and Google aren’t really improving there products that much from year to year to warrant it, but their markets are large enough, and products cheap enough, that  just being new will bring in a little extra sales to make the new product work developing.

 


I don’t think the amount of ram or CPU power has anything to do with this.  Sonos wants to see a world where all of us buy and replace our speakers every 3-5 years. 
 

 

£100 every 3 - 5 years would stick in my throat.

But we’re talking speakers of £500 each, Sonos can definitely take a run & jump!

 

 

R
Userlevel 1

What I don’t understand is that the Sonos connect they say that they stopped selling in 2015 was sold to me by Best Buy in November of 2017. I have a hard time thinking that Best Buy has a two year supply of Sonos gear in stock.

W
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What I don’t understand is that the Sonos connect they say that they stopped selling in 2015 was sold to me by Best Buy in November of 2017. I have a hard time thinking that Best Buy has a two year supply of Sonos gear in stock.

I bought my Connect in May 2016 and got a modern one - there seems to be an awful lot of “luck of the draw” when it comes to 3rd party (but official) suppliers - if I’d chosen someone else, I may have gotten a legacy one. I think it makes this whole thing even worse - that random chance on an unknown variable may, or may not, outdate your purchase.

Guy_19
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What I don’t understand is that the Sonos connect they say that they stopped selling in 2015 was sold to me by Best Buy in November of 2017. I have a hard time thinking that Best Buy has a two year supply of Sonos gear in stock.

I bought my Connect in May 2016 and got a modern one - there seems to be an awful lot of “luck of the draw” when it comes to 3rd party (but official) suppliers - if I’d chosen someone else, I may have gotten a legacy one. I think it makes this whole thing even worse - that random chance on an unknown variable may, or may not, outdate your purchase.

And that is why people with an original Connect should be given the opportunity to buy a Port at a substantial discount or a modern Connect at an even more substantial discount.  (Substantial equals a number much greater than 30%). 

I only bought one of my Connects last May, admittedly only “used” on eBay, rather than something purported to be new.  I hadn’t a clue that I should have been seeking out one with a Play/Pause button and not a Mute button...

7 rooms: One SL Stereo Pair, One SL x 2, Move, Play:5 Gen2 & Port into Arcam AVR with AE floorstanders, Port into Denon microsystem.
M
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What I don’t understand is that the Sonos connect they say that they stopped selling in 2015 was sold to me by Best Buy in November of 2017. I have a hard time thinking that Best Buy has a two year supply of Sonos gear in stock.

Sonos is still selling the Connect on Amazon:

 

Sonos Connect on Amazon

Ryan S
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What I don’t understand is that the Sonos connect they say that they stopped selling in 2015 was sold to me by Best Buy in November of 2017. I have a hard time thinking that Best Buy has a two year supply of Sonos gear in stock.

I bought my Connect in May 2016 and got a modern one - there seems to be an awful lot of “luck of the draw” when it comes to 3rd party (but official) suppliers - if I’d chosen someone else, I may have gotten a legacy one. I think it makes this whole thing even worse - that random chance on an unknown variable may, or may not, outdate your purchase.

Most of these cases that I’ve talked with someone directly over, the device purchased is the 2015 model, not an older one. So to start with, @Robb Lutton, can you check again on your account page here: https://www.sonos.com/myaccount/system/households/devices/ to make sure that what you have is listed as either a Modern device or a Legacy device? There was a bug that’s been fixed that was causing a few modern devices to be flagged as legacy. 

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
M
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Why is the share price climbing again? Don’t the investors realise that loyal SONOS owners have zero intention of buying their products ever again!?

M
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Why is the share price climbing again? Don’t the investors realise that loyal SONOS owners have zero intention of buying their products ever again!?

I would never assume share prices are related to customer satisfaction.  The stock market to me is gambling.  You are hoping share prices will go up, either short or long term and you can cash out at more than you bought in.  Maybe some investors are hoping for a major company to buy sonos.  Also others short the stock and can make money if the shares go down.  Some likely have a strategy to make money on the volatility itself.  At any rate, customer satisfaction is only one small piece and likely matters more to long term investors than others.

N
Userlevel 2

2x play:5

2x Connect zp90

1x sub

1x play:1 all purchased brand new. 

Long time Sonos user, just wanted to have my say... I bought my first play:5 about 7 years ago. First ever post and I'm so sad it had to be in this obituary of a thread.

Honestly fellow music lovers, my confidence with Sonos as a company and a product has been shattered never to recover. Just another jumped up tech company trying to be Apple. Why do I need a voice controlled sonos when I can just ask Alexa app on my phone to play whatever I want on Sonos? I want a speaker which sounds great and plays music, not a personal assistant. 

The hardware system right now can stream with the same quality as a cd without any problems, and guess what Sonos Inc.??? THAT'S ALL I'LL EVER WANT OR NEED IT TO DO. So don't give me all this talk about not enough processing power. For what?Holographic music videos?

A £50 Sonos 'bridge' type device made specifically for this supposed problem could keep our 'legacy' units running fine for years. Nope. This is not about an update issue. This is about a company who recently listed on the stock market desperately trying to turn a profit with delusions of being up there with Google and Amazon.

The scheme to brick your old (?) unit for a 30% discount on a shiny new one is a step too far and I only hope these greedy moguls see sense and at least make the 'legacy' firmware open source - let us recycle our units for years to come. 

This company talks about sustainability but it's clearly all corporate waffle. 

This is from the Sonos website.…

"We plan on being in business a long time, which means we must be responsible, forward-thinking citizens. We’re committed to ethical and sustainable practices and strive to positively affect our community."

Hmmmm.... 

Thanks for reading

R
Userlevel 1

What I don’t understand is that the Sonos connect they say that they stopped selling in 2015 was sold to me by Best Buy in November of 2017. I have a hard time thinking that Best Buy has a two year supply of Sonos gear in stock.

I bought my Connect in May 2016 and got a modern one - there seems to be an awful lot of “luck of the draw” when it comes to 3rd party (but official) suppliers - if I’d chosen someone else, I may have gotten a legacy one. I think it makes this whole thing even worse - that random chance on an unknown variable may, or may not, outdate your purchase.

Most of these cases that I’ve talked with someone directly over, the device purchased is the 2015 model, not an older one. So to start with, @Robb Lutton, can you check again on your account page here: https://www.sonos.com/myaccount/system/households/devices/ to make sure that what you have is listed as either a Modern device or a Legacy device? There was a bug that’s been fixed that was causing a few modern devices to be flagged as legacy. 

Ryan,

Following your note, I checked back and you are correct. I mistook a large purchase at Best Buy of a new receiver and tv with an earlier purchase of sonos gear. I took the registration date to be the date it was purchased. I apologize for my misstatement. 
 

Thanks for taking the time to research this.

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