End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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H
Userlevel 3
Badge +7

Hello everyone,

I’ve been watching this issue and reading this thread with total fascination! It is quite astonishing for me to see some of the reactions posted here, towards an absolutely non-critical issue. It’s only a music system we’re talking about here and it isn’t going to go up in flames after May.

 

The way I always viewed Sonos as a company and the system is that it is a mid range, good quality system with very good service by their staff (even for old products). I’ve used the service on very few occasions when something wasn’t working and they were excellent.

 

I have devices dating back to approximately 2006 and I also have some new devices, including a MOVE.

 

I’m betting on the following:

  1. My legacy items won’t have any new updates with features added after May this year. They will continue to work at least another 5 to 7 years (unless the electronics fail). This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  2. My newer devices will continue to get updates and work at least another 7 to 10 years. This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  3. Sonos will figure out a way to use one controller app to control both systems, but separately. The way I am thinking about it is that the app will have 2 sections: System A (legacy) with rooms A, B, C etc. and System B (new devices) with rooms D, E, F etc. You can then toggle in between system A and B before selecting your room / music on the App.

Why do I think this way? Because Sonos has shown over the last many years that they can maintain products with very old, outdated technology for a very long time.

M
Userlevel 2

There appears to be a school of thought that we should have seen this coming. Why? I’m not aware of Sonos themselves highlighting the fact that their product would cease to be a “Whole Home Sound System” at some point. I don't think it unreasonable that as a purchaser of a SYSTEM I could expect that the system components should continue to work together. Although I’m more than a little disappointed at what is going to happen - and lets face it, its going to - the main learning point for me is that I was probably too trusting of this supplier. That’s likely to be the biggest issue for Sonos as a company - some (possibly many) of their long established customers no longer TRUST the company. I’ve had Sonos products in my home for years (and many of them are about to be designated legacy). I’ve been a strong advocate for the system - but not any longer. I think its unlikely I’ll ever buy another Sonos component again or recommend anyone does so. The only good thing to come out of this, I’m now looking at all my potential ‘smart home’ purchases in a new light!

“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me”


Yeah, this school of thought pops up here and in media outlets. It's wrong and it conflates Sonos' ecosystem with a smart speaker IoT ecosystem.

But the core and original Sonos consumer did not buy smart speakers in the IoT world. They bought multi-room audio components, which were virtually future proof. They were advertised as such -- as long- term purchases and future proof. They were sold firstly in audio stores, not tech stores. And, no, there was no reason to think that music streaming tech fell in the category of fast-evolving IoT tech with likely obsolescence.

The problem is simple: Sonos was an audio component company, but it is now trying to be a smart speaker IoT company. And more recent Sonos consumers, and many in the tech media, view Sonos as a smart speaker company, so they conflate this outcry with any outcry that will occur when a smart IoT device later demands more computing resources.

Folks here are mourning the surprise death of a beloved company that decided to abandon its business as an audio company.

I agree with above and would add - if the Sonos ambition is to be a smart speaker IoT company it will probably fail. It’s products are relatively expensive and intended to work in multi component systems. Apart for the mobile phone market (where consumers only tend to have one device at a time) a business model that relies on user willingness to replace high cost products on a regular basis seems flawed at best. Most IoT devices are low cost so replacement is not such a significant factor when considering cost of ownership. 

Its sometime said “evolve or die”. The path Sonos is currently on looks like an evolutionary dead-end to me. 

M
Userlevel 2

Hello everyone,

I’ve been watching this issue and reading this thread with total fascination! It is quite astonishing for me to see some of the reactions posted here, towards an absolutely non-critical issue. It’s only a music system we’re talking about here and it isn’t going to go up in flames after May.

 

The way I always viewed Sonos as a company and the system is that it is a mid range, good quality system with very good service by their staff (even for old products). I’ve used the service on very few occasions when something wasn’t working and they were excellent.

 

I have devices dating back to approximately 2006 and I also have some new devices, including a MOVE.

 

I’m betting on the following:

  1. My legacy items won’t have any new updates with features added after May this year. They will continue to work at least another 5 to 7 years (unless the electronics fail). This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  2. My newer devices will continue to get updates and work at least another 7 to 10 years. This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  3. Sonos will figure out a way to use one controller app to control both systems, but separately. The way I am thinking about it is that the app will have 2 sections: System A (legacy) with rooms A, B, C etc. and System B (new devices) with rooms D, E, F etc. You can then toggle in between system A and B before selecting your room / music on the App.

Why do I think this way? Because Sonos has shown over the last many years that they can maintain products with very old, outdated technology for a very long time.

Yes, it’s “only a music system” - but a relatively expensive one. Personally I don’t consider 7 to 10 years to be a decent shelf life for a premium price product. 

Regarding point 3 - I have an device arrangement where a Connect:Amp is always used with some Play 1s. So, a “sectionalised” system will not do what I am used to (paid for).

I’m feeling quite pragmatic about this - I don’t expect Sonos to deliver a solution that will enable me to continue using my system as I want to. I’ll move on, but it won’t be with Sonos as I feel let down them. In some ways that’s a shame as until two weeks ago my experience as a customer had been great. 

W
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

A lot of the damage here is towards future plans, and sales. I found out that my Connect is modern so I am unaffected by this whole issue… in the short term. But that Connect, my Play:3 and Play:1 all have me wondering “”how long”. And THAT has made me hit the stop button on Sonos as far as buying anything new is concerned. I just bought a Move recently and that will be my last ever Sonos purchase unless they come up with a better solution for this. Because it’s not just this event that matters - it’s the perception of how they will deal with this next time… and my current perception is that they will not deal with it well.

M
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Hello everyone,

I’ve been watching this issue and reading this thread with total fascination! It is quite astonishing for me to see some of the reactions posted here, towards an absolutely non-critical issue. It’s only a music system we’re talking about here and it isn’t going to go up in flames after May.

 

The way I always viewed Sonos as a company and the system is that it is a mid range, good quality system with very good service by their staff (even for old products). I’ve used the service on very few occasions when something wasn’t working and they were excellent.

 

I have devices dating back to approximately 2006 and I also have some new devices, including a MOVE.

 

I’m betting on the following:

  1. My legacy items won’t have any new updates with features added after May this year. They will continue to work at least another 5 to 7 years (unless the electronics fail). This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  2. My newer devices will continue to get updates and work at least another 7 to 10 years. This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  3. Sonos will figure out a way to use one controller app to control both systems, but separately. The way I am thinking about it is that the app will have 2 sections: System A (legacy) with rooms A, B, C etc. and System B (new devices) with rooms D, E, F etc. You can then toggle in between system A and B before selecting your room / music on the App.

Why do I think this way? Because Sonos has shown over the last many years that they can maintain products with very old, outdated technology for a very long time.

Yes, it’s “only a music system” - but a relatively expensive one. Personally I don’t consider 7 to 10 years to be a decent shelf life for a premium price product. 

Regarding point 3 - I have an device arrangement where a Connect:Amp is always used with some Play 1s. So, a “sectionalised” system will not do what I am used to (paid for).

I’m feeling quite pragmatic about this - I don’t expect Sonos to deliver a solution that will enable me to continue using my system as I want to. I’ll move on, but it won’t be with Sonos as I feel let down them. In some ways that’s a shame as until two weeks ago my experience as a customer had been great. 
 

HighEndMusic I’m afraid your assumption that your legacy products will continue to function for 5 to 7 years is a little flawed. Ryan S has already confirmed in a much earlier post that they will do what they can but as soon as any of the streaming services update their software there is every chance it will not run on the legacy units. So it could be one week, one month or even a year but at some point nothing streamed will stop working at which point you are left with a product that will only play your local music library, and as Ryan S pointed out, that is only until the OS of your library system gets an update and then that too may cease to function. The speed with which updates to software happen now really does not lend itself to your 5 to 7 years, more like 5 to 7 months!

  •  
M
Userlevel 5
Badge +8

Hello everyone,

I’ve been watching this issue and reading this thread with total fascination! It is quite astonishing for me to see some of the reactions posted here, towards an absolutely non-critical issue. It’s only a music system we’re talking about here and it isn’t going to go up in flames after May.

 

The way I always viewed Sonos as a company and the system is that it is a mid range, good quality system with very good service by their staff (even for old products). I’ve used the service on very few occasions when something wasn’t working and they were excellent.

 

I have devices dating back to approximately 2006 and I also have some new devices, including a MOVE.

 

I’m betting on the following:

  1. My legacy items won’t have any new updates with features added after May this year. They will continue to work at least another 5 to 7 years (unless the electronics fail). This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  2. My newer devices will continue to get updates and work at least another 7 to 10 years. This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  3. Sonos will figure out a way to use one controller app to control both systems, but separately. The way I am thinking about it is that the app will have 2 sections: System A (legacy) with rooms A, B, C etc. and System B (new devices) with rooms D, E, F etc. You can then toggle in between system A and B before selecting your room / music on the App.

Why do I think this way? Because Sonos has shown over the last many years that they can maintain products with very old, outdated technology for a very long time.

Yes, it’s “only a music system” - but a relatively expensive one. Personally I don’t consider 7 to 10 years to be a decent shelf life for a premium price product. 

Regarding point 3 - I have an device arrangement where a Connect:Amp is always used with some Play 1s. So, a “sectionalised” system will not do what I am used to (paid for).

I’m feeling quite pragmatic about this - I don’t expect Sonos to deliver a solution that will enable me to continue using my system as I want to. I’ll move on, but it won’t be with Sonos as I feel let down them. In some ways that’s a shame as until two weeks ago my experience as a customer had been great. 
 

HighEndMusic I’m afraid your assumption that your legacy products will continue to function for 5 to 7 years is a little flawed. Ryan S has already confirmed in a much earlier post that they will do what they can but as soon as any of the streaming services update their software there is every chance it will not run on the legacy units. So it could be one week, one month or even a year but at some point nothing streamed will stop working at which point you are left with a product that will only play your local music library, and as Ryan S pointed out, that is only until the OS of your library system gets an update and then that too may cease to function. The speed with which updates to software happen now really does not lend itself to your 5 to 7 years, more like 5 to 7 months!

  •  

Hence why they need to offer a Sonos box that can take new updates and then stream to the legacy units. I’m not going to buy new Sonos gear if they don’t implement a solution that in my mind is possible. If they don’t offer this, I will look at a migration program over the next few years and I won’t be the only one.

 

Build the box or another alternative, I will buy it and then despite the recent announcement, I will probably stay with Sonos. Sonos meant longevity. It meant great support and I was happy to pay premium for that. Please listen and understand. If for business reasons, you choose another path. Fine, thanks for the last decade of a great system, but I won’t pay premium anymore.

Act in haste, repent at leisure.
R
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

Hello everyone,

I’ve been watching this issue and reading this thread with total fascination! It is quite astonishing for me to see some of the reactions posted here, towards an absolutely non-critical issue. It’s only a music system we’re talking about here and it isn’t going to go up in flames after May.

 

The way I always viewed Sonos as a company and the system is that it is a mid range, good quality system with very good service by their staff (even for old products). I’ve used the service on very few occasions when something wasn’t working and they were excellent.

 

I have devices dating back to approximately 2006 and I also have some new devices, including a MOVE.

 

I’m betting on the following:

  1. My legacy items won’t have any new updates with features added after May this year. They will continue to work at least another 5 to 7 years (unless the electronics fail). This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  2. My newer devices will continue to get updates and work at least another 7 to 10 years. This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  3. Sonos will figure out a way to use one controller app to control both systems, but separately. The way I am thinking about it is that the app will have 2 sections: System A (legacy) with rooms A, B, C etc. and System B (new devices) with rooms D, E, F etc. You can then toggle in between system A and B before selecting your room / music on the App.

Why do I think this way? Because Sonos has shown over the last many years that they can maintain products with very old, outdated technology for a very long time.

Yes, it’s “only a music system” - but a relatively expensive one. Personally I don’t consider 7 to 10 years to be a decent shelf life for a premium price product. 

Regarding point 3 - I have an device arrangement where a Connect:Amp is always used with some Play 1s. So, a “sectionalised” system will not do what I am used to (paid for).

I’m feeling quite pragmatic about this - I don’t expect Sonos to deliver a solution that will enable me to continue using my system as I want to. I’ll move on, but it won’t be with Sonos as I feel let down them. In some ways that’s a shame as until two weeks ago my experience as a customer had been great. 
 

HighEndMusic I’m afraid your assumption that your legacy products will continue to function for 5 to 7 years is a little flawed. Ryan S has already confirmed in a much earlier post that they will do what they can but as soon as any of the streaming services update their software there is every chance it will not run on the legacy units. So it could be one week, one month or even a year but at some point nothing streamed will stop working at which point you are left with a product that will only play your local music library, and as Ryan S pointed out, that is only until the OS of your library system gets an update and then that too may cease to function. The speed with which updates to software happen now really does not lend itself to your 5 to 7 years, more like 5 to 7 months!

  •  

@highendmusic - most readers of this thread are able to recognize a post by Sonos public relations, so nice try.  Moreover, I suspect every post insinuating (or flat out stating) that consumers are wrong in their frustration/anger/feeling-of-betrayal/etc with Sonos does nothing but cement those feelings further.    This thread extends to 127 pages so all points that could be made on this topic probably have been; so there isn't much left to say after calling you out.  Hopefully, Sonos management will admit to itself that it made a tragic mistake and change course.  From my discussions with other Sonos costumers (including some woman I was randomly sitting next to on a plane) its clear to me that Sonos’ consumer base will not forgive and forget any time soon. 

Smilja

But losing essential functionality such as "synchronous multi-room sound" is not acceptable for me, especially if there's no reason for it - other than limited investment in software development.

Couldn’t agree more

Maybe it's just greed, but then it obviously backfired...

I don’t think that I’d class it as ‘greed’, although it’s certainly financially motivated. Revamping the way that Sonos works would be a big undertaking, although IMHO this should have been undertake a number of years ago - in which case we wouldn’t be having this discussion at all.

 

You would need a ‘master device’ in every room where you have a ‘slave device’, because a slave would not be able to fetch a stream autonomously ; and a ‘master device’ would not be capable of fetching and coordinating multiple streams to multiple speakers at the same time.

More to the point, customers would be required to undergo a training in order to use Sonos for they would need to grasp the conceptual design behind the ‘master device’ and the 'slave device’ beforehand. Anyone care to assist Sonos on this - unpaid? 

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

But losing essential functionality such as "synchronous multi-room sound" is not acceptable for me, especially if there's no reason for it - other than limited investment in software development.

Couldn’t agree more

Maybe it's just greed, but then it obviously backfired...

I don’t think that I’d class it as ‘greed’, although it’s certainly financially motivated. Revamping the way that Sonos works would be a big undertaking, although IMHO this should have been undertake a number of years ago - in which case we wouldn’t be having this discussion at all.

 

You would need a ‘master device’ in every room where you have a ‘slave device’, because a slave would not be able to fetch a stream autonomously ; and a ‘master device’ would not be capable of fetching and coordinating multiple streams to multiple speakers at the same time.

More to the point, customers would be required to undergo a training in order to use Sonos for they would need to grasp the conceptual design behind the ‘master device’ and the 'slave device’ beforehand. Anyone care to assistant Sonos on this - unpaid? 

Smilja you wouldn’t need to train anyone… 

You simply code the ‘slave device’ to forward any requests it gets to a master for processing - the master can then stream the response back to the ‘slave’ for audio output.

Also you wouldn’t need a ‘master’ in every room. The concept of grouping speakers together for synchronised output in a group does not need to affect the physical topology of the networked system - remember within a wifi or ethernet network every connected device can ‘see’ every other device at all times.

K

 

There is even someone wanting to buy tradeup-bricked sonos play 5’s, he offers to pick them up at people’s home in his area and pay 20USD for them.

My guess is that he has found a way to reactivate them and want to sell them for profit as functioning legacy devices or maybe just reactivate them enough to be able to stick a echo dot on the back, hook it up to the jack port and sell it as an echo device.

 

 

Are there any reports of the bolded working? It is possible that whether it will depends on what was set for their line in setting at the time they were bricked by Sonos after being marked for recycling.

My testing of unbricked units suggests that it may even be possible to get these to do perfect sync multi room, by wiring a cheap Dot to each and multi rooming the Dots via the Alexa app.

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

Are there any reports of the bolded working? It is possible that whether it will depends on what was set for their line in setting at the time they were bricked by Sonos after being marked for recycling.

My testing of unbricked units suggests that it may even be possible to get these to do perfect sync multi room, by wiring a cheap Dot to each and multi rooming the Dots via the Alexa app.

I have not seen anyone claim to be able to reactivate them.

 

But i would think that the bricking is “just” a killswitch feature in the software...maybe even just one bit that is flipped to indicate that it is deactivated.

From what i have heard, this feature is already baked into the firmware, and actively used for theft deterrent. If my speaker that is registered to me gets stolen, it goes on the blacklist and the first time the thief or the person that bought my sonos off of the thief connects it, it will be “killed”

 

Depending on how thorough they have been, it would probably not be THAT hard to detect what they actually do, by reading out the flash, trading it in, waiting until it is being bricked, and then read out the flash and doing a file compare.

If you can reactivate it again, you would only need to enable the line in, and then you could use the device as a speaker.

Alternatively, this person might have found a way to hardwire the line in function inside, to directly connect the line in to the amplifier and thus bypass the sonos part of the speaker.

 

Or maybe even rip out the electronics and retrofit a raspberry pi with some cheap amplifier inside to make a SonosPi<tm>

K

@DK_Madsen anything that reduces landfill load get a ringing endorsement from me. And Sonos would find it extremely hard in today's environment to stop any one doing this via a Sonos legal recourse. Even if their PR head was stupid enough to let such a recourse happen.

Smilja

You simply code the ‘slave device’ to forward any requests it gets to a master for processing - the master can then stream the response back to the ‘slave’ for audio output.

Also you wouldn’t need a ‘master’ in every room. The concept of grouping speakers together for synchronised output in a group does not need to affect the physical topology of the networked system - remember within a wifi or ethernet network every connected device can ‘see’ every other device at all times.

 

Don’t confuse standalone devices with a multi-room system, the way they work is fundamentally different; the former is not required to establish a networking environment where all participants call for being equally privileged in order to deliver what they are designed for.

Do you have a basically understanding of how Sonos works - can you distinguish between standalone, grouping and bonding in Sonos terms?

 

A slave is a subordinate by definition, and you can’t heave a slave to peer level, not even through ‘clever’ software engineering, when the participants are running on different firmware versions.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
E
Userlevel 1

Hi,

I'm from Italy and I've been following the whole thread, since I have 6 Connect Amp and one Connect which are all legacy except one Connect amp (build on 06/2017)

I think that Sonos could have an easy technical solution for legacy device to continue to work and not handle the cost of development support for it.

 

Sonos can bring us a SONOS SERVER (or legacy bridge if you prefer), a little linux based device with cheap Arm or Intel processor, with at least 4 GB of ram and 4 GB of storage.

This device could have the power to stream at least 16 stream of lossless compressed audio (which would be just around 10 Mbit of traffic) or uncompressed audio  (around 20 mbit of traffic).

Such a server would cost less than $ 50 dollar to manufacture and Sonos could sell us for 200$, so it would cover all the development cost and still make profit.

 

Then convert all our old legacy Sonos Amp and speaker to DUMB network connected speaker that just reproduce a stream of music that come in, or send a stream of music from Line in to the SONOS SERVER.

 

The SONOS SERVER would have enough ram and processor power to handle all the update with new functionality and new service, and interoperate with newer devices.

For example it could handle Airplay, Chromecast and Bluetooth, so existing users will be willing to update and spend a little money for it, not only for keeping their legacy device running but also for gaining new functionality.

 

The only drawback for it, is that Sonos customer will keep their legacy device forever and not going to upgrade those to new Sonos model 😉

 

I think that something like that would be a smart solution, which can bring back the Sonos reputation, and keep it ahead of every other company, since this kind of support has never happened in the industry.

 

Ryan, do you think could be feasible, technically speaking ?

Has Sonos evaluated a solution like that ?

 

Thanks, and please help us to trust Sonos again !

 

   Emanuele

 

User694694
Userlevel 5
Badge +4

For me, the only thing that upsets me is the lack of a commitment to keeping streaming music services functioning. Many people here (and especially elsewhere) seem to be fooled by the CEO’s intentional misleading statements. The original letter said that updates would stop after May and that devices would slowly lose functionality as streaming music services make small changes to their code that would require Sonos to make small changes to theirs in the form of updates. People, including me were upset. The CEO then made a “clarification” which was not a clarification at all, it was an omission. He stated the exact same thing, but left out the part about the consequences. He says that updates will continue to May and come May your devices will work as they did before. He just leaves out that AFTER May, they will slowly stop working. It's like telling prisoners that we are going to continue to deliver water to you up until may. Don’t worry though, come may, you will still be OK! What about June and beyond? He chose his words very carefully to insinuate that they’ll continue to support streaming services, but he definitely does not say so. Unless “bug fixes” encompass this, but I doubt that is the case. The CEO is acutely aware of the concern about streaming music services, so if he wanted to say that they will continue to support them, he would have and not just hinted at it.

 

When I purchased my equipment, I had no expectation of added functionality, so I don’t think I am entitled to new features added to my equipment. I don’t care if newer devices can do things that my Legacy ones can’t, but I had the expectation that the basic features that I purchased my devices for would continue to work until equipment failure. This includes playing my own music from my own sources and playing streaming music services like Spotify, Pandora, Tidal, Amazon, etc. Dropping this support entirely would show horrible lack of integrity.

G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

You simply code the ‘slave device’ to forward any requests it gets to a master for processing - the master can then stream the response back to the ‘slave’ for audio output.

Also you wouldn’t need a ‘master’ in every room. The concept of grouping speakers together for synchronised output in a group does not need to affect the physical topology of the networked system - remember within a wifi or ethernet network every connected device can ‘see’ every other device at all times.

 

Don’t confuse standalone devices with a multi room system, the way they work is fundamentally different, the former is not required to establish an networking where all participants call for being equally privileged to deliver what they are designed for.

Do you have a basically understanding of how Sonos works - can you distinguish between standalone, grouping and bonding in Sonos terms?

 

A slave is a subordinate by definition, and you can’t heave a slave to peer level, not even through ‘clever’ software engineering, when the participants are running on different firmware versions.

 

You are absolutely correct, those systems I worked on that worked as I described clearly didn’t exist and I must be a liar.  How fortunate it must be know everything about everything - sure wish I knew as much as you do. What a fool I must be.

B
Userlevel 2
Badge

Another user finding this stance by Sonos entirely unacceptable. We have a Connect, two Play 3s, three Play 1’s, the Playbar and Sub- quite the overall investment.

I have zero expectation that older products would gain new functionality, however security and bug fixes are essential. In addition, old and new devices must be able to stream audio / group as today. 

If entirely new features are introduced and are not added to older devices I am totally ok… just do not degrade our current investment. 

While this current decision only impacts one of our devices- how this is handled I am sure will become the model going forward. If the result is to have to replace my entire investment to maintain core Sonos functionality I will be forced to admit we made a huge mistake investing in Sonos and will have to find a replacement strategy. 

Sonos- please make the right decision. Whole home Audio is not intended to be a sort term investment. I thought the decision to prevent streaming from an iPhone library was bad… this one would truly be the last straw...

 

 

G
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

Hello everyone,

I’ve been watching this issue and reading this thread with total fascination! It is quite astonishing for me to see some of the reactions posted here, towards an absolutely non-critical issue. It’s only a music system we’re talking about here and it isn’t going to go up in flames after May.

 

The way I always viewed Sonos as a company and the system is that it is a mid range, good quality system with very good service by their staff (even for old products). I’ve used the service on very few occasions when something wasn’t working and they were excellent.

 

I have devices dating back to approximately 2006 and I also have some new devices, including a MOVE.

 

I’m betting on the following:

  1. My legacy items won’t have any new updates with features added after May this year. They will continue to work at least another 5 to 7 years (unless the electronics fail). This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  2. My newer devices will continue to get updates and work at least another 7 to 10 years. This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  3. Sonos will figure out a way to use one controller app to control both systems, but separately. The way I am thinking about it is that the app will have 2 sections: System A (legacy) with rooms A, B, C etc. and System B (new devices) with rooms D, E, F etc. You can then toggle in between system A and B before selecting your room / music on the App.

Why do I think this way? Because Sonos has shown over the last many years that they can maintain products with very old, outdated technology for a very long time.

Yes, it’s “only a music system” - but a relatively expensive one. Personally I don’t consider 7 to 10 years to be a decent shelf life for a premium price product. 

Regarding point 3 - I have an device arrangement where a Connect:Amp is always used with some Play 1s. So, a “sectionalised” system will not do what I am used to (paid for).

I’m feeling quite pragmatic about this - I don’t expect Sonos to deliver a solution that will enable me to continue using my system as I want to. I’ll move on, but it won’t be with Sonos as I feel let down them. In some ways that’s a shame as until two weeks ago my experience as a customer had been great. 
 

HighEndMusic I’m afraid your assumption that your legacy products will continue to function for 5 to 7 years is a little flawed. Ryan S has already confirmed in a much earlier post that they will do what they can but as soon as any of the streaming services update their software there is every chance it will not run on the legacy units. So it could be one week, one month or even a year but at some point nothing streamed will stop working at which point you are left with a product that will only play your local music library, and as Ryan S pointed out, that is only until the OS of your library system gets an update and then that too may cease to function. The speed with which updates to software happen now really does not lend itself to your 5 to 7 years, more like 5 to 7 months!

  •  

Hence why they need to offer a Sonos box that can take new updates and then stream to the legacy units. I’m not going to buy new Sonos gear if they don’t implement a solution that in my mind is possible. If they don’t offer this, I will look at a migration program over the next few years and I won’t be the only one.

 

The above is the solution. The “box” attaches to both the legacy network and the update capable network. Call it “Bridge 2” and can support up to 4 streams. For group streams involving both legacy and new devices - this hosts the stream. Current devices can operate independently. Best part, sell this at a reasonable price ( less than $200 ) and no one will mind replacing it every 5-7 years. So we’ll see. There’s no technical reason they cant do this. Is it an ideal business plan, probably not but it’s better than bankruptcy. Sonos speakers are simply too expensive to go obsolete.

 

R
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Hello everyone,

I’ve been watching this issue and reading this thread with total fascination! It is quite astonishing for me to see some of the reactions posted here, towards an absolutely non-critical issue. It’s only a music system we’re talking about here and it isn’t going to go up in flames after May.

 

The way I always viewed Sonos as a company and the system is that it is a mid range, good quality system with very good service by their staff (even for old products). I’ve used the service on very few occasions when something wasn’t working and they were excellent.

 

I have devices dating back to approximately 2006 and I also have some new devices, including a MOVE.

 

I’m betting on the following:

  1. My legacy items won’t have any new updates with features added after May this year. They will continue to work at least another 5 to 7 years (unless the electronics fail). This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  2. My newer devices will continue to get updates and work at least another 7 to 10 years. This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  3. Sonos will figure out a way to use one controller app to control both systems, but separately. The way I am thinking about it is that the app will have 2 sections: System A (legacy) with rooms A, B, C etc. and System B (new devices) with rooms D, E, F etc. You can then toggle in between system A and B before selecting your room / music on the App.

Why do I think this way? Because Sonos has shown over the last many years that they can maintain products with very old, outdated technology for a very long time.

Yes, it’s “only a music system” - but a relatively expensive one. Personally I don’t consider 7 to 10 years to be a decent shelf life for a premium price product. 

Regarding point 3 - I have an device arrangement where a Connect:Amp is always used with some Play 1s. So, a “sectionalised” system will not do what I am used to (paid for).

I’m feeling quite pragmatic about this - I don’t expect Sonos to deliver a solution that will enable me to continue using my system as I want to. I’ll move on, but it won’t be with Sonos as I feel let down them. In some ways that’s a shame as until two weeks ago my experience as a customer had been great. 

 

I would describe Sonos as not a cheap option but not very expensive either. The £400 for the port music streamer is about on par when compared to Bluesound (which I also have and is slightly more) and cheap when compared to high end/quality audio equipment. I certainly would expect a min of 10 years use of such equipment, 5 is not on. They need to make sure that anyone who bought a legacy piece of hardware within the last 5 years due to old stock being held by retailers is compensated.

However, as far as expecting it to last 20 years… no. Like it or not the hardware contains tech... and it is tech and has to be viewed that way. Just think, 20 years ago we didn’t even have smart phones… they only really came in properly about 2007. So, in 13 years there has been massive change, just imagine what it will be like in 20 years time?!?! So no, I expect most hardware that contains tech will need replacing well before then.

However, there are hardware specialists that will go one step further. Naim jumps to mind… now they are expensive but you’re talking top end gear, top end service, top end quality with a top end price. They look after you for the life of the hardware and give you upgrade options for the hardware and service them. But Sonos isn’t competing with them, they are delivering a good quality product that is maintained for a long time for between ¼ to 1/8th of the price of a Naim Streamer and is in reach to the masses.

Now, of course there are cheaper options than Sonos as well. But, consider this. If they’re offering considerably cheaper products, how long do you think they will provide support for? The profit margin on the cheaper hardware is not sufficient to cover 5 years support let alone 10-20. The profit of each sale is not just for hardware but for the hours involved in maintaining, updating and providing fixes to firmware and software.

The two things that p***ed me off with Sonos is the short notice time and the lack of clarity as to what will happen. They’ve created uncertainty and fear with a very close deadline… not clever. I have to thank them though, it has been a wake up call making me look at how I build my music system, which will now contain hardware form more than one source built to work with common protocols. 

 

Edit…

Just wanted to add. I’ll not be recycling my ZP80 even though it has 20 days of life. I’ll be keeping it as a bit of history along with my Slim devices Squeezebox streamer… they didn't last anywhere near as long as Sonos and aren’t cheaper either! Love the design of the original hardware!

I
Userlevel 3
Badge

At the risk of being repetitive,  when you buy an expensive system,  you expect that, if you prefer,  you can keep that original configuration as long as you like in working condition.  When I chose to upgrade it was because I wanted to,  not because my old system life was being cut short by the manufacturer’s built in design obsolescence.  Sonos offer of support for as “long as possible”  doesn't cut it.  It isn’t going to be any more comforting for anyone to know that their equipment might continue to operate for a long period when there is a very real possibility it’s functionality also might be lost in a few months. Functionality of the system at any equipment age should not be affected if the customer does not wish to progress to the next technological level.

 

Look, we all recognize technology does evolve over time. However,  Sonos does bear responsibility for having some foresight if they are to be considered forerunners in the field. When a product is designed,  there has to be forays into the unknown,  or else there would be no technological advancement.   The areas that were most vulnerable to change should have been isolated into a single component that would be subject to change, and then,  only if the customer so desired. When Sonos designed their products, they should have foreseen the customer problems that are now consuming their business.

 

So the company should be judged by it’s ability to understand what the possible consequences of their actions are,  and how successful they were in dealing with them.  That’s what makes them stand or fall by the wayside.

Any excuses are just that,  excuses.  This thread has produced many ideas,  I assume some workable,  some not.  But don’t think for one minute the engineers at Sonos can’t up up with a workable solution.  You guys don’t have to come up with one for them.

User694694
Userlevel 5
Badge +4

At the risk of being repetitive,  when you buy an expensive system,  you expect that, if you prefer,  you can keep that original configuration as long as you like in working condition.  When I chose to upgrade it was because I wanted to,  not because my old system life was being cut short by the manufacturer’s built in design obsolescence.  Sonos offer of support for as “long as possible”  doesn't cut it.  It isn’t going to be any more comforting for anyone to know that their equipment might continue to operate for a long period when there is a very real possibility it’s functionality also might be lost in a few months. Functionality of the system at any equipment age should not be affected if the customer does not wish to progress to the next technological level.

 

Look, we all recognize technology does evolve over time. However,  Sonos does bear responsibility for having some foresight if they are to be considered forerunners in the field. When a product is designed,  there has to be forays into the unknown,  or else there would be no technological advancement.   The areas that were most vulnerable to change should have been isolated into a single component that would be subject to change, and then,  only if the customer so desired. When Sonos designed their products, they should have foreseen the customer problems that are now consuming their business.

 

So the company should be judged by it’s ability to understand what the possible consequences of their actions are,  and how successful they were in dealing with them.  That’s what makes them stand or fall by the wayside.

Any excuses are just that,  excuses.  This thread has produced many ideas,  I assume some workable,  some not.  But don’t think for one minute the engineers at Sonos can’t up up with a workable solution.  You guys don’t have to come up with one for them.

Thanks for mentioning Bluesound. I hadn’t heard of them. If my streaming music services become deprecated come May, I will be switching all my equipment over to Bluesound rather than “upgrading”. It looks like the price is a little higher for similar products, but it will likely be a lot less expensive in the long run considering the Sonos components are only guaranteed to be supported for 5 years.

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +8

At the risk of being repetitive,  when you buy an expensive system,  you expect that, if you prefer,  you can keep that original configuration as long as you like in working condition.  When I chose to upgrade it was because I wanted to,  not because my old system life was being cut short by the manufacturer’s built in design obsolescence.  Sonos offer of support for as “long as possible”  doesn't cut it.  It isn’t going to be any more comforting for anyone to know that their equipment might continue to operate for a long period when there is a very real possibility it’s functionality also might be lost in a few months. Functionality of the system at any equipment age should not be affected if the customer does not wish to progress to the next technological level.

 

Look, we all recognize technology does evolve over time. However,  Sonos does bear responsibility for having some foresight if they are to be considered forerunners in the field. When a product is designed,  there has to be forays into the unknown,  or else there would be no technological advancement.   The areas that were most vulnerable to change should have been isolated into a single component that would be subject to change, and then,  only if the customer so desired. When Sonos designed their products, they should have foreseen the customer problems that are now consuming their business.

 

So the company should be judged by it’s ability to understand what the possible consequences of their actions are,  and how successful they were in dealing with them.  That’s what makes them stand or fall by the wayside.

Any excuses are just that,  excuses.  This thread has produced many ideas,  I assume some workable,  some not.  But don’t think for one minute the engineers at Sonos can’t up up with a workable solution.  You guys don’t have to come up with one for them.

Thanks for mentioning Bluesound. I hadn’t heard of them. If my streaming music services become deprecated come May, I will be switching all my equipment over to Bluesound rather than “upgrading”. It looks like the price is a little higher for similar products, but it will likely be a lot less expensive in the long run considering the Sonos components are only guaranteed to be supported for 5 years.

What commitment if any, has Bluesound made for maintaining their products? You might be jumping out the pot into the frying pan :)

Act in haste, repent at leisure.
R
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

At the risk of being repetitive,  when you buy an expensive system,  you expect that, if you prefer,  you can keep that original configuration as long as you like in working condition.  When I chose to upgrade it was because I wanted to,  not because my old system life was being cut short by the manufacturer’s built in design obsolescence.  Sonos offer of support for as “long as possible”  doesn't cut it.  It isn’t going to be any more comforting for anyone to know that their equipment might continue to operate for a long period when there is a very real possibility it’s functionality also might be lost in a few months. Functionality of the system at any equipment age should not be affected if the customer does not wish to progress to the next technological level.

 

Look, we all recognize technology does evolve over time. However,  Sonos does bear responsibility for having some foresight if they are to be considered forerunners in the field. When a product is designed,  there has to be forays into the unknown,  or else there would be no technological advancement.   The areas that were most vulnerable to change should have been isolated into a single component that would be subject to change, and then,  only if the customer so desired. When Sonos designed their products, they should have foreseen the customer problems that are now consuming their business.

 

So the company should be judged by it’s ability to understand what the possible consequences of their actions are,  and how successful they were in dealing with them.  That’s what makes them stand or fall by the wayside.

Any excuses are just that,  excuses.  This thread has produced many ideas,  I assume some workable,  some not.  But don’t think for one minute the engineers at Sonos can’t up up with a workable solution.  You guys don’t have to come up with one for them.

Thanks for mentioning Bluesound. I hadn’t heard of them. If my streaming music services become deprecated come May, I will be switching all my equipment over to Bluesound rather than “upgrading”. It looks like the price is a little higher for similar products, but it will likely be a lot less expensive in the long run considering the Sonos components are only guaranteed to be supported for 5 years.

I have Bluesound as well as Sonos. Really good gear but I would’d expect any different. They said on their forum that they didn’t have any “Sunset” plans for their first Node that was released in 2012 at the moment but, that is 8 years after the release of the first connects (zp80) that has just been changed to legacy. 

If you are to learn anything from this, look for ways of spreading the risk rather than jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Think Airplay 2 and it’s ability to allow speakers / amps from different manufactures to link together and possibly controlling them via Roon. I’d be concerned that you’d sell all your Sonos for Bluesound and in 8 -10 years time you could be in the same boat again.

That said, I do love my Node 2i and has great sound quality.

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +8

Hello everyone,

I’ve been watching this issue and reading this thread with total fascination! It is quite astonishing for me to see some of the reactions posted here, towards an absolutely non-critical issue. It’s only a music system we’re talking about here and it isn’t going to go up in flames after May.

 

The way I always viewed Sonos as a company and the system is that it is a mid range, good quality system with very good service by their staff (even for old products). I’ve used the service on very few occasions when something wasn’t working and they were excellent.

 

I have devices dating back to approximately 2006 and I also have some new devices, including a MOVE.

 

I’m betting on the following:

  1. My legacy items won’t have any new updates with features added after May this year. They will continue to work at least another 5 to 7 years (unless the electronics fail). This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  2. My newer devices will continue to get updates and work at least another 7 to 10 years. This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  3. Sonos will figure out a way to use one controller app to control both systems, but separately. The way I am thinking about it is that the app will have 2 sections: System A (legacy) with rooms A, B, C etc. and System B (new devices) with rooms D, E, F etc. You can then toggle in between system A and B before selecting your room / music on the App.

Why do I think this way? Because Sonos has shown over the last many years that they can maintain products with very old, outdated technology for a very long time.

Yes, it’s “only a music system” - but a relatively expensive one. Personally I don’t consider 7 to 10 years to be a decent shelf life for a premium price product. 

Regarding point 3 - I have an device arrangement where a Connect:Amp is always used with some Play 1s. So, a “sectionalised” system will not do what I am used to (paid for).

I’m feeling quite pragmatic about this - I don’t expect Sonos to deliver a solution that will enable me to continue using my system as I want to. I’ll move on, but it won’t be with Sonos as I feel let down them. In some ways that’s a shame as until two weeks ago my experience as a customer had been great. 

 

I would describe Sonos as not a cheap option but not very expensive either. The £400 for the port music streamer is about on par when compared to Bluesound (which I also have and is slightly more) and cheap when compared to high end/quality audio equipment. I certainly would expect a min of 10 years use of such equipment, 5 is not on. They need to make sure that anyone who bought a legacy piece of hardware within the last 5 years due to old stock being held by retailers is compensated.

However, as far as expecting it to last 20 years… no. Like it or not the hardware contains tech... and it is tech and has to be viewed that way. Just think, 20 years ago we didn’t even have smart phones… they only really came in properly about 2007. So, in 13 years there has been massive change, just imagine what it will be like in 20 years time?!?! So no, I expect most hardware that contains tech will need replacing well before then.

However, there are hardware specialists that will go one step further. Naim jumps to mind… now they are expensive but you’re talking top end gear, top end service, top end quality with a top end price. They look after you for the life of the hardware and give you upgrade options for the hardware and service them. But Sonos isn’t competing with them, they are delivering a good quality product that is maintained for a long time for between ¼ to 1/8th of the price of a Naim Streamer and is in reach to the masses.

Now, of course there are cheaper options than Sonos as well. But, consider this. If they’re offering considerably cheaper products, how long do you think they will provide support for? The profit margin on the cheaper hardware is not sufficient to cover 5 years support let alone 10-20. The profit of each sale is not just for hardware but for the hours involved in maintaining, updating and providing fixes to firmware and software.

The two things that p***ed me off with Sonos is the short notice time and the lack of clarity as to what will happen. They’ve created uncertainty and fear with a very close deadline… not clever. I have to thank them though, it has been a wake up call making me look at how I build my music system, which will now contain hardware form more than one source built to work with common protocols. 

 

Edit…

Just wanted to add. I’ll not be recycling my ZP80 even though it has 20 days of life. I’ll be keeping it as a bit of history along with my Slim devices Squeezebox streamer… they didn't last anywhere near as long as Sonos and aren’t cheaper either! Love the design of the original hardware!

It seems that the old way of streaming is dead. Develop a media system and streaming to dumb speakers is the way forward. Then just upgrade the media system as when needed. It will be a cheaper solution in the long run and that’s what I’m looking at now. So many options to choose from. Customers won’t accept replacing several expensive (it’s expensive for many) units every 5 to 10 years. It doesn’t make sense when the speaker itself is still operational. Sonos are at a crossroads & I’m so surprised they didn’t have a plan in place before making the announcement. Why wait weeks, months? Sonos sales will decline because of the delay. 

Act in haste, repent at leisure.
G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Hello everyone,

I’ve been watching this issue and reading this thread with total fascination! It is quite astonishing for me to see some of the reactions posted here, towards an absolutely non-critical issue. It’s only a music system we’re talking about here and it isn’t going to go up in flames after May.

 

The way I always viewed Sonos as a company and the system is that it is a mid range, good quality system with very good service by their staff (even for old products). I’ve used the service on very few occasions when something wasn’t working and they were excellent.

 

I have devices dating back to approximately 2006 and I also have some new devices, including a MOVE.

 

I’m betting on the following:

  1. My legacy items won’t have any new updates with features added after May this year. They will continue to work at least another 5 to 7 years (unless the electronics fail). This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  2. My newer devices will continue to get updates and work at least another 7 to 10 years. This will be a very decent “shelf life” in the case of WiFi connected devices.
  3. Sonos will figure out a way to use one controller app to control both systems, but separately. The way I am thinking about it is that the app will have 2 sections: System A (legacy) with rooms A, B, C etc. and System B (new devices) with rooms D, E, F etc. You can then toggle in between system A and B before selecting your room / music on the App.

Why do I think this way? Because Sonos has shown over the last many years that they can maintain products with very old, outdated technology for a very long time.

Yes, it’s “only a music system” - but a relatively expensive one. Personally I don’t consider 7 to 10 years to be a decent shelf life for a premium price product. 

Regarding point 3 - I have an device arrangement where a Connect:Amp is always used with some Play 1s. So, a “sectionalised” system will not do what I am used to (paid for).

I’m feeling quite pragmatic about this - I don’t expect Sonos to deliver a solution that will enable me to continue using my system as I want to. I’ll move on, but it won’t be with Sonos as I feel let down them. In some ways that’s a shame as until two weeks ago my experience as a customer had been great. 

 

I would describe Sonos as not a cheap option but not very expensive either. The £400 for the port music streamer is about on par when compared to Bluesound (which I also have and is slightly more) and cheap when compared to high end/quality audio equipment. I certainly would expect a min of 10 years use of such equipment, 5 is not on. They need to make sure that anyone who bought a legacy piece of hardware within the last 5 years due to old stock being held by retailers is compensated.

However, as far as expecting it to last 20 years… no. Like it or not the hardware contains tech... and it is tech and has to be viewed that way. Just think, 20 years ago we didn’t even have smart phones… they only really came in properly about 2007. So, in 13 years there has been massive change, just imagine what it will be like in 20 years time?!?! So no, I expect most hardware that contains tech will need replacing well before then.

However, there are hardware specialists that will go one step further. Naim jumps to mind… now they are expensive but you’re talking top end gear, top end service, top end quality with a top end price. They look after you for the life of the hardware and give you upgrade options for the hardware and service them. But Sonos isn’t competing with them, they are delivering a good quality product that is maintained for a long time for between ¼ to 1/8th of the price of a Naim Streamer and is in reach to the masses.

Now, of course there are cheaper options than Sonos as well. But, consider this. If they’re offering considerably cheaper products, how long do you think they will provide support for? The profit margin on the cheaper hardware is not sufficient to cover 5 years support let alone 10-20. The profit of each sale is not just for hardware but for the hours involved in maintaining, updating and providing fixes to firmware and software.

The two things that p***ed me off with Sonos is the short notice time and the lack of clarity as to what will happen. They’ve created uncertainty and fear with a very close deadline… not clever. I have to thank them though, it has been a wake up call making me look at how I build my music system, which will now contain hardware form more than one source built to work with common protocols. 

 

Edit…

Just wanted to add. I’ll not be recycling my ZP80 even though it has 20 days of life. I’ll be keeping it as a bit of history along with my Slim devices Squeezebox streamer… they didn't last anywhere near as long as Sonos and aren’t cheaper either! Love the design of the original hardware!

It seems that the old way of streaming is dead. Develop a media system and streaming to dumb speakers is the way forward. Then just upgrade the media system as when needed. It will be a cheaper solution in the long run and that’s what I’m looking at now. So many options to choose from. Customers won’t accept replacing several expensive (it’s expensive for many) units every 5 to 10 years. It doesn’t make sense when the speaker itself is still operational. Sonos are at a crossroads & I’m so surprised they didn’t have a plan in place before making the announcement. Why wait weeks, months? Sonos sales will decline because of the delay. 

I think you are spot on there MIBUK

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