End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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J
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I declined this, but thought the forum needed to know that Sonos will give discounts to 50% if you push a bit.  ……

From: Nathan S
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: PLEASE STOP MY RECYCLING

 

Hello John-

Thank you for contacting Sonos!

Patrick Spence asked me to reach out to you on his behalf.

 

Our apologies for the confusion regarding the end of software updates for legacy items that is scheduled to commence in May.

While we are unable to reverse recycling, we would like to compensate you for this inconvenience.

If you could please provide the email address associated with these Trade Up products, I will submit a retroactive credit request to our finance team for this order so there is a 50% total discount rather than 30%. You should see this credit in 10-15 business days.

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience, and thank you for being a loyal Sonos customer.

Best,

Nathan S

 

 

Moderator note: Edited out private information.

Moderator clarification: All discounts are managed on a case by case basis.

A
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I declined this, but thought the forum needed to know that Sonos will give discounts to 50% if you push a bit.  ……

From: Nathan S
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: PLEASE STOP MY RECYCLING

 

Hello John-

Thank you for contacting Sonos!

Patrick Spence asked me to reach out to you on his behalf.

 

Our apologies for the confusion regarding the end of software updates for legacy items that is scheduled to commence in May.

While we are unable to reverse recycling, we would like to compensate you for this inconvenience.

If you could please provide the email address associated with these Trade Up products, I will submit a retroactive credit request to our finance team for this order so there is a 50% total discount rather than 30%. You should see this credit in 10-15 business days.

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience, and thank you for being a loyal Sonos customer.

Best,

Nathan S

 

Not to set my price too low … but I have to say at 50%, I would do the upgrade. 

There is something neat and mentally acceptable about “50%”. 

Would I still have the same past affection for Sonos? I don’t know but I could stomach 50% and a clear statement of future product life cycle with a far horizon.

Can’t believe I’m saying that but is true … I think

 

Moderator note: Edited out private information.

Moderator clarification: All discounts are managed on a case by case basis.

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +10

I declined this, but thought the forum needed to know that Sonos will give discounts to 50% if you push a bit.  ……

From: Nathan S
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: PLEASE STOP MY RECYCLING

 

Hello John-

Thank you for contacting Sonos!

Patrick Spence asked me to reach out to you on his behalf.

 

Our apologies for the confusion regarding the end of software updates for legacy items that is scheduled to commence in May.

While we are unable to reverse recycling, we would like to compensate you for this inconvenience.

If you could please provide the email address associated with these Trade Up products, I will submit a retroactive credit request to our finance team for this order so there is a 50% total discount rather than 30%. You should see this credit in 10-15 business days.

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience, and thank you for being a loyal Sonos customer.

Best,

Nathan S

 

Not to set my price too low … but I have to say at 50%, I would do the upgrade. 

There is something neat and mentally acceptable about “50%”. 

Would I still have the same past affection for Sonos? I don’t know but I could stomach 50% and a clear statement of future product life cycle with a far horizon.

Can’t believe I’m saying that but is true … I think

 

Or I should say upgrades … from memory think I got 6 of them. Suddenly sounds a little appealing.

 

Moderator note: Edited out private information.

Moderator clarification: All discounts are managed on a case by case basis.

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +10

I declined this, but thought the forum needed to know that Sonos will give discounts to 50% if you push a bit.  ……

From: Nathan S
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: PLEASE STOP MY RECYCLING

 

Hello John-

Thank you for contacting Sonos!

Patrick Spence asked me to reach out to you on his behalf.

 

Our apologies for the confusion regarding the end of software updates for legacy items that is scheduled to commence in May.

While we are unable to reverse recycling, we would like to compensate you for this inconvenience.

If you could please provide the email address associated with these Trade Up products, I will submit a retroactive credit request to our finance team for this order so there is a 50% total discount rather than 30%. You should see this credit in 10-15 business days.

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience, and thank you for being a loyal Sonos customer.

Best,

Nathan S

 

Not to set my price too low … but I have to say at 50%, I would do the upgrade. 

There is something neat and mentally acceptable about “50%”. 

Would I still have the same past affection for Sonos? I don’t know but I could stomach 50% and a clear statement of future product life cycle with a far horizon.

Can’t believe I’m saying that but is true … I think

 

Or I should say upgrades … from memory think I got 6 of them. Suddenly sounds a little appealing.

should say ‘less’ appealing.

 

Moderator note: Edited out private information.

Moderator clarification: All discounts are managed on a case by case basis.

M
Userlevel 5
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Sonos Reports Record First Quarter Fiscal 2020 Financial Results

 

https://investors.sonos.com/news-and-events/investor-news/latest-news/2020/Sonos-Reports-Record-First-Quarter-Fiscal-2020-Financial-Results/default.aspx

They’ve improved their results greatly. However that was pre-announcement of the legacy approach. Let’s see the results in the next two quarters to see what effect it has had. Of course, it depends on what solution Sonos proposes, but I still think it’s mad to announce the legacy mode without having a plan in place to answer questions now, to minimise any negativity.

The cynical view is that they believed they could simply make an announcement, take some criticism and then continue growing. Well, if that was the case, then they’re now clear how much unhappiness there is. Mainly because Sonos haven’t answered the questions correctly. Saying, we’ll have something by May and will update you all in the next few weeks/months, is amateurish at best.The mind boggles how highly educated people can make these elementary mistakes. But, Pandora’s box has been opened and they’ll need to do something amazing to close it. I suspect many will run their system to the point, it has no value anymore/support of basic services and meanwhile, will find alternatives to prepare for the switch over. 

In my view it’s either a media server streaming to wireless speakers. So, the only updates needed will be to the hardware/software to the media server OR buy much cheaper true wireless in the knowledge that one day, they will be replaced. If Sonos leave this space that they created, I can imagine a new kid on the block who will takeover in the future. 

Act in haste, repent at leisure.
melvimbe

They’ve improved their results greatly. However that was pre-announcement of the legacy approach. Let’s see the results in the next two quarters to see what effect it has had. Of course, it depends on what solution Sonos proposes, but I still think it’s mad to announce the legacy mode without having a plan in place to answer questions now, to minimise any negativity.

 

I agree that the announcement was not done as well it should have been, and a more complete plan would have gone over well.  Although I think investor reports show that Sonos was aware of this eventuality, there been nothing to show that a May legacy changeover has been planned for a long time.  I wonder if they were originally planning to do legacy at a later date, but move the date up based on recent events.  Those recent events could be the acquisition of Snips (voice control), the lawsuit against Google, or just concerns about rising competition.  Maybe not, and maybe we will never know, but I do wonder.

 

The cynical view is that they believed they could simply make an announcement, take some criticism and then continue growing. Well, if that was the case, then they’re now clear how much unhappiness there is.

 

 

How much unhappiness is there?    It obviously exists, but do we really know what the real impact is and how it’s going to effect future sales?  I know there are at least thousands that upset and it’s clearly something, but what percentage of current  and  new customers are effected or  will change their buying habits?  Don’t know.

 

 

Mainly because Sonos haven’t answered the questions correctly. Saying, we’ll have something by May and will update you all in the next few weeks/months, is amateurish at best.The mind boggles how highly educated people can make these elementary mistakes. But, Pandora’s box has been opened and they’ll need to do something amazing to close it. I suspect many will run their system to the point, it has no value anymore/support of basic services and meanwhile, will find alternatives to prepare for the switch over. 

 

 

 I agree that Sonos needs to have something amazing planned.  I am not sure that’s going to happen this year though, and not sure it will win over customers that are turning away.  I say that I’m not sure it’s this year, because although I can imagine Sonos would want to hold off on bad news as long as possible, they would not want to do it during Christmas shopping season either.  So it may be that an amazing change isn’t coming till this time 2021.  Or there could be nothing that  we notice or find amazing.  

 

In my view it’s either a media server streaming to wireless speakers. So, the only updates needed will be to the hardware/software to the media server OR buy much cheaper true wireless in the knowledge that one day, they will be replaced. If Sonos leave this space that they created, I can imagine a new kid on the block who will takeover in the future. 

 

These are both sound strategies.  I think people will find positive and negatives with alternatives and will find the strategy that makes the most sense for them.  I am not sure that a central media server is going to provide multroom audio well (not sure about that).    As far as cheaper  true wireless options, it’s worth nothing that this is currently offered by big tech Google and Amazon, which use their sheer size to be able to sell products for cheap.  While I think it’s a good solution for a lot of people, it does come with it’s own set of issues.

Danny
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Why is there only one version of the Connect Amp on the graph, but some of mine are Legacy and some aren’t? I see two versions of the Connect, with the latter having more storage and RAM. Am I missing something? Or is it that Sonos will support some of my Connect Amps because they are still within the 5 year window and some aren’t despite the same internals?

Ryan S
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Why is there only one version of the Connect Amp on the graph, but some of mine are Legacy and some aren’t? I see two versions of the Connect, with the latter having more storage and RAM. Am I missing something? Or is it that Sonos will support some of my Connect Amps because they are still within the 5 year window and some aren’t despite the same internals?

That chart is user generated and though it’s pretty accurate, it is missing a few things, such as it doesn’t list the older version of the Connect:Amp which was called the ZP120 at launch. That first version had only 32 MB of memory and was replaced by the newer version in 2015.

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
User694694
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Why is there only one version of the Connect Amp on the graph, but some of mine are Legacy and some aren’t? I see two versions of the Connect, with the latter having more storage and RAM. Am I missing something? Or is it that Sonos will support some of my Connect Amps because they are still within the 5 year window and some aren’t despite the same internals?

That chart is user generated and though it’s pretty accurate, it is missing a few things, such as it doesn’t list the older version of the Connect:Amp which was called the ZP120 at launch. That first version had only 32 MB of memory and was replaced by the newer version in 2015.

 

Ah, I do remember the ZP120.  Its form factor was a little larger than the Connect Amp. All my Connect Amps are the smaller form factor. So, are you saying that the initial Connect Amps (presumably the ones that are becoming legacy) are not listed on the graph and that the 2015 Connect Amps are the ones listed (that have 64 MB storage and RAM)?

jgatie

 

Ah, I do remember the ZP120.  Its form factor was a little larger than the Connect Amp. All my Connect Amps are the smaller form factor. So, are you saying that the initial Connect Amps (presumably the ones that are becoming legacy) are not listed on the graph and that the 2015 Connect Amps are the ones listed (that have 64 MB storage and RAM)?

 

That was the ZP100.  Larger, less powerful amplifier, and had an analog line out.  The ZP120 was its successor, which was later rebranded as the Connect.

O
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Why is there only one version of the Connect Amp on the graph, but some of mine are Legacy and some aren’t? I see two versions of the Connect, with the latter having more storage and RAM. Am I missing something? Or is it that Sonos will support some of my Connect Amps because they are still within the 5 year window and some aren’t despite the same internals?

That chart is user generated and though it’s pretty accurate, it is missing a few things, such as it doesn’t list the older version of the Connect:Amp which was called the ZP120 at launch. That first version had only 32 MB of memory and was replaced by the newer version in 2015.

Dear Ryan, could Sonos please create a chart or publish information on the various models and different hardware versions so that we can plan for obsolescence and possible next purchases with the most accurate information possible? Thank you.

User694694
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Ah, I do remember the ZP120.  Its form factor was a little larger than the Connect Amp. All my Connect Amps are the smaller form factor. So, are you saying that the initial Connect Amps (presumably the ones that are becoming legacy) are not listed on the graph and that the 2015 Connect Amps are the ones listed (that have 64 MB storage and RAM)?

 

That was the ZP100.  Larger, less powerful amplifier, and had an analog line out.  The ZP120 was its successor, which was later rebranded as the Connect.

Thanks for the correction. OK. I think I get it now. The ZP100 isn’t listed. The ZP120 original version had 32MB RAM and isn’t listed (These are the devices going into Legacy come May). The Connect:AMP that came out in 2015 (to replace the ZP120 but looks identical to it on the outside) has 64MB RAM and is the one that is listed in the chart and has no specific plan for going into Legacy at this time?

melvimbe

That chart is user generated and though it’s pretty accurate, it is missing a few things, such as it doesn’t list the older version of the Connect:Amp which was called the ZP120 at launch. That first version had only 32 MB of memory and was replaced by the newer version in 2015.

Dear Ryan, could Sonos please create a chart or publish information on the various models and different hardware versions so that we can plan for obsolescence and possible next purchases with the most accurate information possible? Thank you.

 

I would assume that the information about the currently sold speakers to be the more accurate part of the chart, since those devices are easier to get you hands on for testing.  The more modern devices also have better hardware version control in plans, so it’s easier to know exactly what you’re testing.

 

But I would not take memory as the only hint towards the longevity if a particular product.  Some products have voice control, airplay support, and other features that some products do not, thus their memory requirements may be more.  All we really know is that the ‘base’ memory requirement is around 32 MB, but we don’t know how much space is available on each unit.  Information on the total memory and memory used, like you see on a computer/phone/tablet, would be best.  And of course we don’t know how future proof other hardware is, or any sense of how quickly tech will move in the future.  N

 

I’m personally more interested in the initial date a product is sold and the last date it was sold/manufactured (if discontinued).  That is information that’s readily available, except for the ‘silent hardware changes’, I just don’t want to track it down myself.

Danny
jgatie

Thanks for the correction. OK. I think I get it now. The ZP100 isn’t listed. The ZP120 original version had 32MB RAM and isn’t listed (These are the devices going into Legacy come May). The Connect:AMP that came out in 2015 (to replace the ZP120 but looks identical to it on the outside) has 64MB RAM and is the one that is listed in the chart and has no specific plan for going into Legacy at this time?

 

Yes, except the rebranding happened before 2015, so there are legacy Connects w/ 32 MB.  A quick check is to look at the 4 numbers before the serial number on the label.  They are the year and month of the manufactured date.  Anything after 2015 (ex. 1601C) are modern devices. 

melvimbe

Thanks for the correction. OK. I think I get it now. The ZP100 isn’t listed. The ZP120 original version had 32MB RAM and isn’t listed (These are the devices going into Legacy come May). The Connect:AMP that came out in 2015 (to replace the ZP120 but looks identical to it on the outside) has 64MB RAM and is the one that is listed in the chart and has no specific plan for going into Legacy at this time?

 

Yes, the Connect:Amp produced after 2015 has 64MB of RAM is considered a Modern product (not legacy).

 

However, the naming switch from ZP to Connect happen much earlier than 2015.  I purchased my Connect:Amp before 2015, and it is a legacy device.

Danny
jgatie

 

Yes, the Connect:Amp produced after 2015 has 64MB of RAM is considered a Modern product (not legacy).

 

However, the naming switch from ZP to Connect happen much earlier than 2015.  I purchased my Connect:Amp before 2015, and it is a legacy device.

 

I believe it was The Great Rebranding of 2011.

melvimbe

I believe it was The Great Rebranding of 2011.

 

Sounds right to me.  But yea, it would be nice to have start and end dates published by Sonos.

Danny
chickentender

I believe it was The Great Rebranding of 2011.

 

Sounds right to me.  But yea, it would be nice to have start and end dates published by Sonos.

I was lucky enough to enter into Sonos with a Connect at the very end of December, 2014. :rolling_eyes:  

“… once again things that could have been brought to my attention yesterday!”

melvimbe

I believe it was The Great Rebranding of 2011.

 

Sounds right to me.  But yea, it would be nice to have start and end dates published by Sonos.

I was lucky enough to enter into Sonos with a Connect at the very end of December, 2014. :rolling_eyes:  

“… once again things that could have been brought to my attention yesterday!”

Perhaps, but you would not have known the impact of buying the Gen 1 vs the Gen 2(for lack of a better name) would have been back then.  Had the info been known, Sonos would have correctly stated that there is a hardware change, but no difference in functionality.  Basically what they said about Gen 1/Gen 2 Sonos Ones.  IIRC, the Gen 1 Sonos Ones were discounted slightly, so can you say you would have paid more for the potential future proofing?  I don’t think I would have personally.  This is before voice control was really a thing, and there really wasn’t quite the tech push for smart speakers and smart devices in general.

 

 

Danny
W
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Relevant excerpts from Q1 earnings call below.. Spence seems to be saying his statement totally clarified everything and that they have a defined path forward, even though his reps here keep saying all relevant information won't come until May. Not sure what to make of this.

Also interesting that he says Sonos will continue to lead on product longevity while his reps here keep saying we shouldn't expect products to work properly longer than 5 years.

 

 

Rajagopal Kamesh -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc. -- Analyst

That makes sense. Thanks for all the color. Just one final question for me. You announced last month that you're not going to provide software updates to some older products. Could you talk about how that impacts replacement rates? And how the initial customer reaction has been?

Patrick Spence -- Chief Executive Officer

Sure. That is something that I think we certainly saw how passionate our Sonos customers are from any communication and with the news that we put out there. I mean, we didn't get it right in terms of our initial communication hence by follow-up. And so, I think everybody understands now that the intent was to talk about the fact our products launched anywhere from 10 to 15 years ago are no longer capable of supporting the new features that are going to be coming out in May, but they will continue to be supported with bug fixes and software updates and those kind of things. And we see that continuing into the future.

So I would say we got lots of comments, I got lots of emails and I would say that was probably 70% to 80% of kind of the volume in terms of people asking about that and most are reassured in terms of the message there. But I think we -- I think we're -- we've always stood for product longevity. It's very different than anybody else in the industry and we plan to continue to lead in product longevity.

Right now, we think that there -- we've introduced the Trade Up program which helps our long time customers be able to move into the latest and great products. So that's something we've just started. We're starting to learn from that. So we'll see how that impacts replacement rate over time as we go through that, but we've -- at this point, we've been just learning in terms of going through that and we continue to expect that we'll see similar kind of repurchase rates from existing customers as well.

 


Brent Thill -- Jefferies -- Analyst

And I know the -- your email about the software updates maybe sent the wrong signal, but I've just anecdotally had some friends that have already moved to upgrades and get moving. Have you seen any upgrades ahead of that that you see already in the system? Or is it just too early to call?

Patrick Spence -- Chief Executive Officer

The program that we offered as a choice right to customers, again this is a choice to customers and so they get to -- if they choose upgrade because they're excited by the features and functions that are there, they can choose to do it has really just got started at this particular point in time, so too early at this point to see. This is the first time in what 16, 17 years now we've gone through anything like this. So we'll learn and be factoring that in. But right now, it's early in terms of going through that.

And I think we also clarified that message pretty quickly. So people understood that their existing products will continue to work. So I think the -- again this is -- while I understand the questions from like a revenue perspective and how it impacts the flow, it really is an effort to make sure that we're building on the brand that we've created and that customer loyalty and everything that we're doing for customers. So we'll see over time how that trends.

Brittany Bagley -- Chief Financial Officer

Yeah. The only thing I would add is, as you can imagine, we didn't make this decision lightly or quickly. And so, to the best that we can estimate these impacts, they are included in our fiscal year '20 guidance.

 

R
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Is there a way to opt out of the “trade-up” program so our equipment isn’t mistakenly bricked?

jgatie

Is there a way to opt out of the “trade-up” program so our equipment isn’t mistakenly bricked?

 

Yes, just do nothing.  You have to actually check off the device on the website and agree to trade it in for it to be bricked, and there are several warnings before the final OK. 

chickentender

I was lucky enough to enter into Sonos with a Connect at the very end of December, 2014. :rolling_eyes:  

“… once again things that could have been brought to my attention yesterday!”

Perhaps, but you would not have known the impact of buying the Gen 1 vs the Gen 2(for lack of a better name) would have been back then.  Had the info been known, Sonos would have correctly stated that there is a hardware change, but no difference in functionality.  Basically what they said about Gen 1/Gen 2 Sonos Ones.  IIRC, the Gen 1 Sonos Ones were discounted slightly, so can you say you would have paid more for the potential future proofing?  I don’t think I would have personally.  This is before voice control was really a thing, and there really wasn’t quite the tech push for smart speakers and smart devices in general.

 

 

I realize all of this, of course; that comment was rather tongue-in-cheek and really just an excuse to use a “Wedding Singer” quote.

C

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

Why would Sonos not offer a better trade up program for us committed Sonos users who have legacy products.  I currently have a Sonos connect original and the new amp.  If you want us dedicated Sonos users to continue to support the company why not offer 50,60,70% trade up.  Give us incentive to purchase a 699.00 dollar product that we have already purchased.

melvimbe

I realize all of this, of course; that comment was rather tongue-in-cheek and really just an excuse to use a “Wedding Singer” quote.

 

I recognized it from somewhere but didn’t make the direction connection.  Nicely done.

Danny
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