Huh? Those were never described as PC speakers, not intended for such use. Are you expecting a software update to magically add line-in, Bluetooth or digital inputs? You can use those today as you always have been able to, for music or as surrounds.

Support, could we please get an update on this article covering using the USB line-in on the new Era models?

Hi @controlav 

Excellent idea - done!

Oh, using the analog adapter: is there no way to do a direct USB-to-USB connection PC-to-Eras?

Hi @controlav 

No.

This may or may not change - I really don’t know. 

Hello There, I got the Ray, i’m trying to connect it to my computer, but my computer does not have the optical port, it only has a audio type c. I bought an adapter USB AUDIO CONVERTER OPTICAL AND 3.5MM, I plug it into my type c and a usb port but there is no audio coming out, my computer does detect that there is a speaker plug it and even has the green audio lv going up, Any tips? I was going to return this but I really want to make it work. Much would be appreciated thank you.

Hi @Johnson878 

Does the adaptor have separate outputs listed in Windows? If so, you’ll need to make sure that the Digital Output is selected (rather than the 3.5mm socket, which may be labelled as “Speakers”). 

One thing strikes me as a bit strange, however: you said “plug it into my type c and a usb port” - as a USB device, it should only need to plug into one USB socket, not a USB-C and a USB type A (if that’s what you meant). It may help if you provide a link to the device you purchased.

You may also need to specify/restrict the digital output format in Windows to be Dolby Digital (AC-3) or DTS - if it’s trying to send Dolby Digital + (EAC-3), for example, that will not work.

I hope this helps.

I bought this one for $20 on Amazon and it works great on my MacBook

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QFYNB7Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Make sure you get the “output” version and not the “input” as those are uni-directional.

Could we possibly have some information on what sort of latency we should expect when we connect 2 Roam (or 2 Move) as a stereo pair over bluetooth?

My understanding is that S2 version 14.16 added the ability for Roam to play stereo over Bluetooth but only if WiFi is present. Would the expected latency be 20-40ms (from BT) + 75ms (for Sonos standard sync) =~ 100ms or something closer to only BT 20ms?

Also would the Roam negotiate AAC as the coded on MacBook Pro with Apple Silicon?

Thanks!

Hi @zipuni 

Roam (with or without a stereo pair) can expect 200ms latency. There may be additional latency from the source device, however (the time it takes to encode the audio and transmit it).

Move cannot play Bluetooth in a stereo pair. I couldn’t find any figures for the latency, but I presume it would be lower as the Move can’t share it’s Bluetooth feed and therefore doesn’t need to prebuffer it.

I couldn’t find any information on which codec would be negotiated.

I hope this helps.

Thank you so much Corry, wow 200ms is a lot. I guess the only option we have is using optical to a Ray / Beam assuming nothing will change with the new Era 100/300 and the 75ms minimum latency over Line-in.

This is such a bummer and a missed opportunity as so many other Sonos users have pointed out.  I am deep in the Sonos ecosystem and I really don’t want to buy Audiengine/Edifier/Kanto for my desktop and have them not join the rest of the party.

Maybe you can enable direct USB access to the Era like Audiengine and others support?

Thanks again for the reply.

It’s a software thing, not a hardware thing. Removing the delay would require a significant rewrite of the entire underlying code base, and remove the Sonos “whole home audio” feature, which is their main marketing point. 

Not true. What everyone wants is to have the “local” pair of speakers play with minimal delay. The same way a Ray/Beam has minimal delay when it is directly connected to a TV.

Think about it. Can you imagine if Sonos were to launch Beam/Ray/Arc with a *minimum* of 75ms delay and said “we can’t do less because it goes against our marketing”?  No-one would buy them as lip-sync problems would be unbearable.

Desktop speakers, same as TV surround, is a minimal delay application and they are choosing not to support it.  It sure beats me why as I really don’t want to have sound bar below my “floating” arm-mounted display.

Sonos users expect to group/ungroup on the fly, it is a core functionality.  Making the “local” speaker impossible to group because it is used as a computer speaker takes away from that.  You might as well make it a standalone computer speaker (which is what everyone says to get in the first place).

Also, the Arc/Beam has minimal delay because it is using an ad hoc private 5 GHz network to connect directly to the Sub/surrounds.  This configuration can be low latency because it is not expected to go through walls/floors like the regular grouping of rooms, which uses a greater buffer (hence the delay) and the more penetrating 2.4 GHz band.  

I get all that but please explain what is stopping Sonos from supporting zero-delay line-in on Era 100/300 (meaning just the delay of ADC) and then, to your point, add a 5GHz ad hoc private network for Left / Right direct connection?  How is this different to the ARC / Optical in + Surrounds that you describe?

The delay has absolutely nothing to do with the ADC.  ADC is instantaneous.  The delay is to build up the buffer which is necessary for multi-room grouping. Without the buffer, there is no way for the signal to self-correct if a packet is dropped or missed, so the audio will be full of dropouts and skips, making grouping impossible.  And the reason they can’t do what you describe using 5 GHz is because the low-latency 5 GHz connection cannot penetrate the walls/floors as well as the buffered 2.4 GHz signal, so once again, grouping is impossible.

So what it comes down to is you want dedicated computer speakers that cannot be grouped with the other Sonos speakers in your home.  There’s plenty of those around, go buy some.  

What I am describing is two different modes:

1. PC Mode: no delay, line-in mode where Left and Right speakers are connected over ad-hoc 5GHz (not grouped over walls/floors)
2. Regular/Current Sonos Mode: 75ms+ delay, desktop pair can be grouped / ungrouped with the rest of Sonos ecosystem

I hope that makes sense

I highly doubt it is even possible, never mind probable.  The buffering circuitry is almost certainly baked into the line in/ADC.  Besides, this thread has a couple dozen replies over 2 years.  Sonos isn’t going to make their core functionality optional for a couple dozen replies.  

Also even if you could get rid of the buffer, reconfiguring surrounds to the 5 GHz private network is not an instantaneous switch.  It takes time to reconfigure the radios and do the handshaking necessary for a stable connection.  How popular is this feature going to be if you need to go through that process every time you wish to switch from PC speakers to Sonos speakers and back?

Once again - Sonos doesn’t make computer speakers.  Go buy computer speakers.  That’s what they are made for. 

I can think of two related reasons why Sonos doesn’t offer both of these mode options for line aux sources.  One is that it allows users to connect Play:5, Port, and now the Era 100 and 300, to TVs for audio instead of the products specifically designed for TVs.  I think they would rather sell you a soundbar for that, that gives you the option of using home theatre audio channels, etc.

Second, and maybe more importantly, Sonos tries to keep their system simple, and this feature adds a lot of complications.  User would need to understand why the speaker isn’t playing in sync when grouped for turntable audio sometimes (because of the new mode switch).  Why the Era 300 plays atmos music, but not when connected to your TV...and you can’t connect surrounds. Why you can’t connect your rear Era 100 to a projector to get TV audio for the whole system. Why you have a switch for delay with aux input, but not for TV input (sounds nuts, but some would want that).  Yes, some of these are questions and points of confusion already, but not sure making a switch really helps.  Having flexibility can be great for the more power users who have a better understanding of what’s happening, but a lot of people don’t will just consider basic functionality (multiroom audio) as broken, when they just don’t have it set right for their needs.

A third point if I may, the aux input connection currently allows you to play the audio in any room in your system without playing it in the room that it’s actually connected to, unlike the digital/TV connection.  It’s not confusing when the lag is permanently in place, as the audio plays the same no matter what room you are listening in.  However, if you wanted to say have your TV connected to a Port, but play audio on a pair of Sonos Ones (separate room), there would be no way around the delay.  Something I don’t think would be easily understood by casual customers.

Honestly, a lot of people come in here with the expectation that the speakers can be used in any combination or method they imagine.  Want to have 12 Sonos Ones in a home theater, 4 of them strapped to the ceiling?  Why not.  Want to use 2 playbars for left and right front channels?  Sure.  Want to have a single sub play bass for every sonos room in the house?  You should be able to!  But all of these options need to be coded and tuned for, and Sonos wants them to sound good, easy to use, and not destroy their business.

I hear you and these are all great points.  The fact that this official post exists, proves that Sonos has heard by a lot of people about the PC speaker use-case.  That said, I feel that a Ray/Beam as the only low-latency option in 2023 is limiting and I wish Sonos would and give us better options.

It’s a little bit of a stretch to call it ‘official’.  Yes, Sonos staff created it, but the fact that it’s not referenced in support documents or on any product page, doesn’t give a lot of weight to it.  As well, it’s not like this thread has a ton of traffic for being created 2 years ago.  It really says ‘pet project’ more than ‘Sonos official stance’ on the matter.  I have no idea what level of importance a feature like this sits with Sonos.  I’d guess it’s far from the bottom, but maybe not in the top 20 either.  As comparison, people want the ability to have separate front speakers in a home theatre (w/atmos) as Sonos CEO acknowledged that in a recent interview.  I would think that’s a much higher demand than this, but I don’t think Sonos is doing that soon either.

That’s not to say I don’t want the feature myself.  I do, and I would use it.  Likely not with a TV, but to connect an Era speaker for TV audio.  I have a room or two where I want going music, and only care for stereo TV audio.

Also, Ray and Beam are not the only options with out latency.  You also have the Arc and Amp, not to mention playbar and playbase if we include retired products.  

I prefer to describe the soundbar connections as “low latency” rather than “no latency”. There will always be some processing latency, but perhaps not enough to annoy the human in some cases. Plus, annoyance thresholds vary between listeners. There is also the issue created by poor lip sync at the TV station.

Even with no processing there is the physics of sound propagation. Sound is pokey at about one foot per millisecond. Consider two speakers, ‘A’ and ‘B’ directly wired to the same source and placed 30 feet apart with listeners near each speaker. Listener ‘A’ will claim speaker ‘B’ is 30ms late. Likewise listener ‘B’ will claim speaker ‘A’ is 30ms late. Now consider listener ‘C’ listening from the midpoint between the speakers. Listener ‘C’ will claim that there is no delay. All three observers will be correct.

Reminds me of an event my family attended when I was a kid.  There was a fireworks/lightshow downtown that was supposed to be synced to music.  The audience was to listen to pick a random site to sit, maybe even a mile way from the actual show, then turn their portable radio to the right station to hear the ‘synced’ music.  So you had whatever delays occured at the source that was producing the fireworks/light show and accompany audio, transmission to radio station, transmission of the signal from station to portable radios, whatever processing occurred in the radios themselves, plus the speed of sound in the air...with at least 50 radios (all the other groups watching the show)  in hearing range of me.  It was an utter mess.  And of course, people would just turn up their radio in hopes of drowning out all the other radios that were out of sync with their own, which just made it worse.

If such an event were done today, you might be able to make it work by having the audience download the audio in advance and synced to start at the same time...effectively a huge latency.  Even then, you want people to wear headphones to avoid hearing the audio out if sync from nearby sources.

Hi!
What can you say about delay using the Era 100’s as PC speakers, connected via Bluetooth?
The youtube channel Smart Home Sounds claims there’s no delay, very interesting

Hi @yorkiepork 

Bluetooth 5.2 does have lower latency than the earlier versions (Era speakers use 5.2), but there will certainly still be a delay. I don’t however have any figures I can quote for you, as of yet.