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Using Sonos as PC Speakers

Using Sonos as PC Speakers

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Userlevel 1
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I just received my Line In adapter for my Era100….

 

Anyone reading this thread: You do NOT want to use an Era as a PC speaker unless you:

  • Never watch youtube
  • Never watch Netflix
  • Only ever listen to music

The delay is a LOT more than 75 ms via both bluetooth and the Line In. Via Line In the delay is MUCH greater. So much that watching someone talk or a dialog is painful. Bluetooth is better, but there is a material out-of-sync issue.

 

 

Userlevel 7
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Hi @Gutemberg Ribeiro 

I’m about 98% sure it will work for you, but I just can’t guarantee it.

You are most welcome!

Yeah, it is possible. For MacOS when you add an HDMI display it also add an audio device so you can just pick it from the list:

 

About the delay, yeah, there is always "some". But my options for this is to either use Sonos and keep it as the rest of my house, or get a thunderbolt audio interface and plug powered speakers to it as stereo/2.1. Any interface DSP will have "some" delay anyway to convert the signal should be negligible.

The goals are to be able to (1) watch movies/music in a reasonable way (this is not my main HT, just the home office), (2) play games and (3) eventually make skype/teams/slack calls where the delay isn't noticed.

So if this is doable with Sonos rather prefer use it.

Thanks!

Userlevel 7
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Hi @Gutemberg Ribeiro 

There will be a delay (there is always some delay), but it shouldn’t be long enough to be an annoyance (or even noticeable), though as you rightly mention, it does rely on how long it takes the Arcana to do its part.

Other than the phantom screen you mention, I don’t see any obvious problems with doing this, assuming the Mac lets you output audio to one “display” while piping the video to a different display, that is. It’s possible it won’t, but I don’t know for sure one way or another. My assumption would be that you could just choose where the audio goes.

In short, no promises, I’m afraid.

I hope this helps.

Thank you both for the replies. Now I understand what is wrong.

In regards to the HDMI @Corry P I understand HDMI and (e)ARC are two different types of signals/protocols and computers (Mac or Windows) are not doing (e)ARC over their HDMI ports.

I could add a HDFury Arcana to get the eARC signal generated for the Sonos devices but that has a weird downside of even that I'm only sending Audio, MacOS (and Windows for that matter) will detect the HDFury Arcana as a display so you can easily "lose" the mouse cursor if you happen to move the mouse on that "non-existent" screen, which is quite annoying. 

Sound Blaster X4 apparently have 7.1/5.1 discrete channels using the SPIDF optical output but I guess this is uncompressed as you mentioned, and the Dolby Digital Live encoding is not available on MacOS:

 

So I guess the only option left is to use the HDFury Arcana and live with the phantom display 😢

If I pick that path, do we have any audio delays using the eARC (assuming ofc the HDFury Arcana doesn't introduce any delays)? Also, assuming the apps can play Atmos (like Apple TV+, Netflix, etc), will it work as expected, right?

Anyway, thank you very much for the replies!

Userlevel 7
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Hi @Gutemberg Ribeiro 

Apologies for mixing up Apple TV and Mac Studio (typing “Apple TV” is just habit at this point), but it doesn’t really change my earlier answer.

What @Outburst said is spot on; SPDIF/TOSLink is one-way communication only. 

My suspicion is that, just like with Windows, your Mac Studio is only willing to output surround sound if the interface does not require compression, i.e. MultiChannel LPCM 5.1 or 7.1 via HDMI. When it comes to the optical connection you are using, any surround format must be pre-prepared (compressed), which effectively means that it is only available with recorded media playback and the Passthrough option on the playback software (not in system settings) must be activated. Creative Labs make a USB soundcard that will compress Dolby Digital in real-time using a hardware encoder (Dolby Digital Live, they call the feature), but it is not compatible with macOS, unfortunately. There may be alternate options available for your Mac Studio, however, including software-only ones.

Just in case you are now thinking of connecting your Beam to your Mac Studio directly with an HDMI cable, that will not work - the Beam must be connected to an HDMI-ARC socket, not an HDMI one. If you do connect via a TV, it will need to be one with eARC support to handle uncompressed MultiChannel LPCM. Whether or not your Mac Studio will be willing to then output surround sound at the system level, I’ll leave for someone who has actually tried it to answer.

I hope this helps.

Userlevel 4
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This is not how optical works. There is no communication between the source and sink, the Sonos device cannot communicate with your Mac. This is a feature only used by HDMI. The Mac might detect it by checking if an optical cable is connected or there might be some advanced settings somewhere. 

Thanks for the reply @Corry P 

Sorry but my question is around a Mac Studio (a Mac computer just like a Mac mini or a Macbook) and not an Apple TV. The reason I asked is because for the Mac to be able to send DTS/DD it needs to detect the multichannel support on the optical device connected to it on MacOS Audio MIDI and not stereo like this.

 

 I'm trying to make sure the converter used by Sonos report the correct number of speakers (5.1) to MacOS so it can output DD/DTS before I put this new order.

Can you confirm with your team this info please?

Otherwise it won't work with 5.1and will send only stereo. I think the same applies to regular Windows PCs.

So again, in order for this to work properly Sonos adapter must be able to report 5.1, not 2.0 as in both Windows and MacOS screenshots above.

Can you confirm that info please?

Thanks!

Userlevel 7
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Hi @Gutemberg Ribeiro 

Using an optical connection, you should be able to receive Dolby Digital 5.1 (not DD+) or DTS 5.1, assuming your Apple TV is willing to output those formats - I assume you’ll need to specify the output format manually.

I have no experience playing games on Apple devices, but if it’s anything like playing on a PC, compressed format surround options like those I mention above may not be available. Movies/TV shows shouldn’t be a problem.

I hope this helps.

Hello!

In a setup with Bean Gen 2 + Sub + Amp with 2 in-ceiling connected with the optical cable to a Mac Studio, would we be able to get 5.1? Or would this just be stereo?

 

I’d like to be able to play games or watch movies with surrounds from the Mac Studio but I’m not sure if the optical adapter will be detected by MacOS as a multi-channel output or just 2 channel stereo.

 

Thanks!

Ah makes sense.  I decided to get an optical soundcard, the ASUS Sonar SE.  Let’s hope this works.

 

I tried plugging in my old ASUS Sonar DX, it has a SPDIF out.  I used a 1 x S/PDIF Header and it doesn’t work :(

@John B thanks for the quick response!  I guess I’m not following the 3.5mm → RCA → Adaptor → Standard optical cable → Ray.

No way to skip the RCA bit? feel like I need another adaptor for 3.5mm to RCA.

 

The adapter you linked  has an RCA input and your computer has a 3.5mm jack output.  So you need a cable with a 3.5mm jack at one end and an RCA connector at the other.  There is no adaptation or conversion involved here.  How else are you going to connect the two devices?

What other draw backs are there with the adaptor?

  • Stereo only
  • volume control

I guess I’m just trying to understand which features I’m foregoing using an adaptor vs. sound card.  Any expert opinion here would be much appreciated.

 

You aren’t foregoing anything by using the adapter.  You are losing multichannel sound because you are using an output connection that is only capable of handling stereo.

 

 

 

I have this old sound card with a S/PDIF optical adaptor, do you think it would still be Stereo only?

@John B thanks for the quick response!  I guess I’m not following the 3.5mm → RCA → Adaptor → Standard optical cable → Ray.

No way to skip the RCA bit? feel like I need another adaptor for 3.5mm to RCA.

What other draw backs are there with the adaptor?

  • Stereo only
  • volume control

I guess I’m just trying to understand which features I’m foregoing using an adaptor vs. sound card.  Any expert opinion here would be much appreciated.

 

Hi @skho01 .  The adapter looks like the right sort of thing.  It appears that you would need a 3.5mm jack to RCA (red/white) cable to connect the TV to the adapter. then a standard optical cable from adapter to Ray.  

I cannot see you getting anything better than stereo out of this, which may be adequate for your purposes. If not, then a sound card with optical out would give you multichannel output.

I think you may have to settle for an unrecognisable Chinese brand.

Hello There, I got the Ray, i’m trying to connect it to my computer, but my computer does not have the optical port, it only has a audio type c. I bought an adapter USB AUDIO CONVERTER OPTICAL AND 3.5MM, I plug it into my type c and a usb port but there is no audio coming out, my computer does detect that there is a speaker plug it and even has the green audio lv going up, Any tips? I was going to return this but I really want to make it work. Much would be appreciated thank you.

I bought this one for $20 on Amazon and it works great on my MacBook

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QFYNB7Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Make sure you get the “output” version and not the “input” as those are uni-directional.

Thanks for sharing this!  Sounds like there are some draw backs to this (i.e., cannot control volume).  Are there other alternatives? I must admit, audio has always been very confusing for me to fully grasp.  But I’m essentially in a similar situation as Johnson, bought the Ray as soundbar for my 49 inch ultra wide monitor setup.  But running into trouble because my Windows PC does not have optical out.  It only has 3.5MM jack and USB ports (1 C, and a ton of A’s).  Do I need to get a AUX to Optical converter? (like one of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W5GNZX5)  If so, does anyone have recommendations (ideally ultra small footprint and from a credible brand, Amazon has a ton of cheapo Chinese ones, who knows what type of security it has).  Or do I need to get a dedicated sound card with optical out…?

Really don’t want to have to return this, the PC soundbar market is kinda meh for the most part.

Userlevel 7
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Hi @Str8rydder & @craigski 

I have updated the original post so Amp is included in the list of devices that will induce a delay - thanks for pointing it out!

Userlevel 2

I want to do the following connection: Mac mini --- Sonos AMP --- passive bookshelf Speakers. Will I get the dreaded delay? Thanks

Depends how they are connected.

You can’t connect the Mac Mini directly to the AMP via HDMI, you need to send the Mac Mini to a TV then use the HDMI-ARC output of your TV to the AMP.  No delay.

If your Mac Mini has optical output you can also use that with the optical adapter. No delay.

You can use the analog input of the AMP, but then you’ll get the delay.

If you Airplay from the Mac Mini I think you’ll get the delay, but I’m honestly not sure about that.

 

Thanks controlav. Airplay should have a small but noticeable delay. Shame about the complicated HDMI and analog delay as my Mac mini (M1) does not have the optical out. Looks like I will have to get something that is not Sonos which works well for this.

 

Thanks again.

Userlevel 7
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I want to do the following connection: Mac mini --- Sonos AMP --- passive bookshelf Speakers. Will I get the dreaded delay? Thanks

Depends how they are connected.

You can’t connect the Mac Mini directly to the AMP via HDMI, you need to send the Mac Mini to a TV then use the HDMI-ARC output of your TV to the AMP.  No delay.

If your Mac Mini has optical output you can also use that with the optical adapter. No delay.

You can use the analog input of the AMP, but then you’ll get the delay.

If you Airplay from the Mac Mini I think you’ll get the delay, but I’m honestly not sure about that.

Userlevel 2

I want to do the following connection: Mac mini --- Sonos AMP --- passive bookshelf Speakers. Will I get the dreaded delay? Thanks

 

P.S. The article by James L. says the delay is with the Connect:Amp. Also, lots of great content above.

Userlevel 6
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I​​​​​​

A quick note on Play:5, Five, Connect:Amp, Port, Connect, Era 100 & Era 300

While it is possible to use these players with a PC by connecting to their line-in ports (Era models will need the USB-C adaptor), this isn’t a recommended solution if you’re planning on doing something that requires audio/video synchronization. There will be a minimum of a 75ms delay on the audio due to the signal processing performed on the line-in side. If synchronization isn’t an issue for you, you can simply connect the device to your PCs headphone or line out jack like you would a pair of regular headphones.

 

 

 

 

Maybe the above should be updated to include Bluetooth & Roam, as it appears bluetooth is treated same as line-in based on my tests.

 

Userlevel 6
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Just a guess, but since the Roam can be used as a Bluetooth input when grouped with other Sonos speakers, then the same buffer is needed for the Bluetooth input as for the Line-In input.  

Yes, I agree. I also blocked the Roam from my WiFi, restarted the Roam to simulate a ‘standalone’ bluetooth speaker, I still see the ~75ms, even when its unable to group the input with any other Sonos device.

 

 

I’m still a little confused by this thread.

If I connect my roam via bluetooth to my PC, I observe a delay, is this the 75ms ‘sonos’ delay?

Reason I ask is when I connect a UE Megaboom via bluetooth that is around 7-8 years old, and I don’t observe a lag.

I fully understand the 75ms line in delay, but does this 75ms also apply to a direct bluetooth connection to Roam, ie the bluetooth connection is treated in same way as a line in connection?

 

Just a guess, but since the Roam can be used as a Bluetooth input when grouped with other Sonos speakers, then the same buffer is needed for the Bluetooth input as for the Line-In input.  

Userlevel 6
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I’m still a little confused by this thread.

If I connect my roam via bluetooth to my PC, I observe a delay, is this the 75ms ‘sonos’ delay?

Reason I ask is when I connect a UE Megaboom via bluetooth that is around 7-8 years old, and I don’t observe a lag.

I fully understand the 75ms line in delay, but does this 75ms also apply to a direct bluetooth connection to Roam, ie the bluetooth connection is treated in same way as a line in connection?

 

Userlevel 1
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Hi everybody,

 

For my part,  I have been using for a while 2 Era 100 in stereo pair, connected to my computer with a single adapter.

The latency of 75ms does not bother me, I only listen to music. I even tried with a video and the lag is barely perceptible.

On the other hand, as the adapter is only connected to one of the two Era 100s, is the sound reproduced is realy in stereo on the pair? (I can't quite hear the difference).

because I can't find the information if the jack input of the adapter is stereo?

 

Thank you for your answers

 

Small update...
I posted too fast (and thought too slowly...) 😅
I just realized I could try with a stereo test on Youtube. And finally the sound is well sent in stereo in pair of Era 100 👍

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