Using Sonos as PC Speakers

Is this actual TV audio, where the source is coming in through the Arc HDMI port (HDMI-ARC) are were you getting audio from the ATV4K via airplay?  Airplay would limit you to stereo only and would not have any latency, as you are claiming to see.  An HDMI connection would have show a latency in group rooms.

Sorry, but this is just wrong.  I’m not trying to claim you aren’t hearing what your hearing, but Sonos official statements, my personal experience, and others,  contradict yours.  If you aren’t using airplay, then perhaps you’re brain isn’t recognizing a difference and blending it together.  That’s certainly been the case for other people who don’t even notice a lag with line audio.  Others absolutely do.

Regardless, any body attempting to group TV audio across multiple rooms should know that the rooms will not play in perfect sync.  Whether that bothers them personally or if they even notice it is a different matter, but a significant, perhaps majority, of people do notice and find in doesn’t work for their needs. 

You either didn't read what was posted, or you didn't understand it.  Either way, I'm not going to argue with you.  Go ahead and keep thinking there is somehow Sonos is able to overcome the laws of physics but doesn't do it because it has some hatred of people who want to use their products are computer speakers.  

PS - In your example above, the CD player output is delayed ~70 ms when sent to other rooms.  The line in is delayed 70 ms to all rooms.  So there is a difference.  Why you don't sense it is another question, but it's there.

I tried this with my TV and the lag was too much for me.  It could very well be that the TV isn’t very efficient at transmitting bluetooth as your PC. 

Or, as @Corry P explain it, my brain is not as evolved as yours. 🙄 

Anyway, I’ll be interested in trying out the TV to Era 300s via bluetooth  when the speakers arrived to see if my Neanderthal brain can handle it.  I’ve realized I pretty much never watch TV in that room, and when I do, stereo is just fine.  If BT works, I’ll be getting rid of the Beam G1 and play:1s.  If it doesn’t work, I’ll keep the Beam.

Hi @SarahN 

It can be difficult to perceive as our brains have evolved to cope with sight and sound being slightly out of sync due to distance and the difference in the speed of light versus that of sound - as with most things that might “weird us out”, the brain just edits it out (like the fact that our eyes wobble when we move them). Interestingly, this only works one way - we are not at all used to hearing before seeing, so if the picture were to be behind the audio, it would be much easier to notice.

Thanks for sharing your experience, though!

Hi @yorkiepork 

Bluetooth 5.2 does have lower latency than the earlier versions (Era speakers use 5.2), but there will certainly still be a delay. I don’t however have any figures I can quote for you, as of yet.

Reminds me of an event my family attended when I was a kid.  There was a fireworks/lightshow downtown that was supposed to be synced to music.  The audience was to listen to pick a random site to sit, maybe even a mile way from the actual show, then turn their portable radio to the right station to hear the ‘synced’ music.  So you had whatever delays occured at the source that was producing the fireworks/light show and accompany audio, transmission to radio station, transmission of the signal from station to portable radios, whatever processing occurred in the radios themselves, plus the speed of sound in the air...with at least 50 radios (all the other groups watching the show)  in hearing range of me.  It was an utter mess.  And of course, people would just turn up their radio in hopes of drowning out all the other radios that were out of sync with their own, which just made it worse.

If such an event were done today, you might be able to make it work by having the audience download the audio in advance and synced to start at the same time...effectively a huge latency.  Even then, you want people to wear headphones to avoid hearing the audio out if sync from nearby sources.

It’s a little bit of a stretch to call it ‘official’.  Yes, Sonos staff created it, but the fact that it’s not referenced in support documents or on any product page, doesn’t give a lot of weight to it.  As well, it’s not like this thread has a ton of traffic for being created 2 years ago.  It really says ‘pet project’ more than ‘Sonos official stance’ on the matter.  I have no idea what level of importance a feature like this sits with Sonos.  I’d guess it’s far from the bottom, but maybe not in the top 20 either.  As comparison, people want the ability to have separate front speakers in a home theatre (w/atmos) as Sonos CEO acknowledged that in a recent interview.  I would think that’s a much higher demand than this, but I don’t think Sonos is doing that soon either.

That’s not to say I don’t want the feature myself.  I do, and I would use it.  Likely not with a TV, but to connect an Era speaker for TV audio.  I have a room or two where I want going music, and only care for stereo TV audio.

Also, Ray and Beam are not the only options with out latency.  You also have the Arc and Amp, not to mention playbar and playbase if we include retired products.  

I can think of two related reasons why Sonos doesn’t offer both of these mode options for line aux sources.  One is that it allows users to connect Play:5, Port, and now the Era 100 and 300, to TVs for audio instead of the products specifically designed for TVs.  I think they would rather sell you a soundbar for that, that gives you the option of using home theatre audio channels, etc.

Second, and maybe more importantly, Sonos tries to keep their system simple, and this feature adds a lot of complications.  User would need to understand why the speaker isn’t playing in sync when grouped for turntable audio sometimes (because of the new mode switch).  Why the Era 300 plays atmos music, but not when connected to your TV...and you can’t connect surrounds. Why you can’t connect your rear Era 100 to a projector to get TV audio for the whole system. Why you have a switch for delay with aux input, but not for TV input (sounds nuts, but some would want that).  Yes, some of these are questions and points of confusion already, but not sure making a switch really helps.  Having flexibility can be great for the more power users who have a better understanding of what’s happening, but a lot of people don’t will just consider basic functionality (multiroom audio) as broken, when they just don’t have it set right for their needs.

A third point if I may, the aux input connection currently allows you to play the audio in any room in your system without playing it in the room that it’s actually connected to, unlike the digital/TV connection.  It’s not confusing when the lag is permanently in place, as the audio plays the same no matter what room you are listening in.  However, if you wanted to say have your TV connected to a Port, but play audio on a pair of Sonos Ones (separate room), there would be no way around the delay.  Something I don’t think would be easily understood by casual customers.

Honestly, a lot of people come in here with the expectation that the speakers can be used in any combination or method they imagine.  Want to have 12 Sonos Ones in a home theater, 4 of them strapped to the ceiling?  Why not.  Want to use 2 playbars for left and right front channels?  Sure.  Want to have a single sub play bass for every sonos room in the house?  You should be able to!  But all of these options need to be coded and tuned for, and Sonos wants them to sound good, easy to use, and not destroy their business.

What I am describing is two different modes:

1. PC Mode: no delay, line-in mode where Left and Right speakers are connected over ad-hoc 5GHz (not grouped over walls/floors)
2. Regular/Current Sonos Mode: 75ms+ delay, desktop pair can be grouped / ungrouped with the rest of Sonos ecosystem

I hope that makes sense

I get all that but please explain what is stopping Sonos from supporting zero-delay line-in on Era 100/300 (meaning just the delay of ADC) and then, to your point, add a 5GHz ad hoc private network for Left / Right direct connection?  How is this different to the ARC / Optical in + Surrounds that you describe?

Not true. What everyone wants is to have the “local” pair of speakers play with minimal delay. The same way a Ray/Beam has minimal delay when it is directly connected to a TV.

Think about it. Can you imagine if Sonos were to launch Beam/Ray/Arc with a *minimum* of 75ms delay and said “we can’t do less because it goes against our marketing”?  No-one would buy them as lip-sync problems would be unbearable.

Desktop speakers, same as TV surround, is a minimal delay application and they are choosing not to support it.  It sure beats me why as I really don’t want to have sound bar below my “floating” arm-mounted display.

Thank you so much Corry, wow 200ms is a lot. I guess the only option we have is using optical to a Ray / Beam assuming nothing will change with the new Era 100/300 and the 75ms minimum latency over Line-in.

This is such a bummer and a missed opportunity as so many other Sonos users have pointed out.  I am deep in the Sonos ecosystem and I really don’t want to buy Audiengine/Edifier/Kanto for my desktop and have them not join the rest of the party.

Maybe you can enable direct USB access to the Era like Audiengine and others support?

Thanks again for the reply.