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Using Sonos as PC Speakers

Using Sonos as PC Speakers
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melvimbe

I can stream from Android to Sonos over the wifi connection, just asking to be able to do the same from a PC. I would have to spend more to get a Roam. Yes, there are numerous formats available, but most of us use only a small number of them, so even if it was only possible for the formats supported already that would be useful. 

 

How are you streaming from Android to Sonos?  Sonos can play music files stored on your phone and can play music files stored on your PC or a NAS.  I assume this isn’t what you’re referring to.  The original topic was to play any audio coming from your PC, whether it be music files, streamed podcasts, movies, youtube, games, whatever.

Danny
controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

I can stream from Android to Sonos over the wifi connection, just asking to be able to do the same from a PC. I would have to spend more to get a Roam. Yes, there are numerous formats available, but most of us use only a small number of them, so even if it was only possible for the formats supported already that would be useful. 

Are you talking about streaming files from your Android? You can do that on the PC already, just right click on the file.

The request here is for “live streaming” ie with no delay, capturing the PC audio output and stream it, for movie use. That isn’t possible.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
K

Actually, “all” I am asking for is to be able to send PC audio to Sonos, as if Sonos were PC speakers, without having to use tricky to set up tools like Stream What You Here. Or maybe Sonos to incorporate SWYH into its app with an easy (or at least easier) interface and set-up.

N
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Actually, “all” I am asking for is to be able to send PC audio to Sonos, as if Sonos were PC speakers, without having to use tricky to set up tools like Stream What You Here. Or maybe Sonos to incorporate SWYH into its app with an easy (or at least easier) interface and set-up.

AIUI, the Sonos app is just a remote control device for the speakers. So something on the PC needs to send the data stream to the speakers, and the speakers need to be told what to listen out for.  The speakers have a finite amount of memory. Whilst I don’t know what the capacities and limits/free memory may be at present, I for one do not want to stream from my pc so would prefer the currently free memory kept for other purposes. I do have a music library on my PC; I’m happy to play live gaming or online video to my (wired) PC speakers. 

J

Hello There, I got the Ray, i’m trying to connect it to my computer, but my computer does not have the optical port, it only has a audio type c. I bought an adapter USB AUDIO CONVERTER OPTICAL AND 3.5MM, I plug it into my type c and a usb port but there is no audio coming out, my computer does detect that there is a speaker plug it and even has the green audio lv going up, Any tips? I was going to return this but I really want to make it work. Much would be appreciated thank you.

Airgetlam

It’s a software thing, not a hardware thing. Removing the delay would require a significant rewrite of the entire underlying code base, and remove the Sonos “whole home audio” feature, which is their main marketing point. 

Bruce
jgatie

I get all that but please explain what is stopping Sonos from supporting zero-delay line-in on Era 100/300 (meaning just the delay of ADC) and then, to your point, add a 5GHz ad hoc private network for Left / Right direct connection?  How is this different to the ARC / Optical in + Surrounds that you describe?

 

The delay has absolutely nothing to do with the ADC.  ADC is instantaneous.  The delay is to build up the buffer which is necessary for multi-room grouping. Without the buffer, there is no way for the signal to self-correct if a packet is dropped or missed, so the audio will be full of dropouts and skips, making grouping impossible.  And the reason they can’t do what you describe using 5 GHz is because the low-latency 5 GHz connection cannot penetrate the walls/floors as well as the buffered 2.4 GHz signal, so once again, grouping is impossible.

So what it comes down to is you want dedicated computer speakers that cannot be grouped with the other Sonos speakers in your home.  There’s plenty of those around, go buy some.  

jgatie

What I am describing is two different modes:

  1. PC Mode: no delay, line-in mode where Left and Right speakers are connected over ad-hoc 5GHz (not grouped over walls/floors)
  2. Regular/Current Sonos Mode: 75ms+ delay, desktop pair can be grouped / ungrouped with the rest of Sonos ecosystem

I hope that makes sense

 

I highly doubt it is even possible, never mind probable.  The buffering circuitry is almost certainly baked into the line in/ADC.  Besides, this thread has a couple dozen replies over 2 years.  Sonos isn’t going to make their core functionality optional for a couple dozen replies.  

Also even if you could get rid of the buffer, reconfiguring surrounds to the 5 GHz private network is not an instantaneous switch.  It takes time to reconfigure the radios and do the handshaking necessary for a stable connection.  How popular is this feature going to be if you need to go through that process every time you wish to switch from PC speakers to Sonos speakers and back?

Once again - Sonos doesn’t make computer speakers.  Go buy computer speakers.  That’s what they are made for. 

melvimbe

I hear you and these are all great points.  The fact that this official post exists, proves that Sonos has heard by a lot of people about the PC speaker use-case.  That said, I feel that a Ray/Beam as the only low-latency option in 2023 is limiting and I wish Sonos would and give us better options.

 

It’s a little bit of a stretch to call it ‘official’.  Yes, Sonos staff created it, but the fact that it’s not referenced in support documents or on any product page, doesn’t give a lot of weight to it.  As well, it’s not like this thread has a ton of traffic for being created 2 years ago.  It really says ‘pet project’ more than ‘Sonos official stance’ on the matter.  I have no idea what level of importance a feature like this sits with Sonos.  I’d guess it’s far from the bottom, but maybe not in the top 20 either.  As comparison, people want the ability to have separate front speakers in a home theatre (w/atmos) as Sonos CEO acknowledged that in a recent interview.  I would think that’s a much higher demand than this, but I don’t think Sonos is doing that soon either.

That’s not to say I don’t want the feature myself.  I do, and I would use it.  Likely not with a TV, but to connect an Era speaker for TV audio.  I have a room or two where I want going music, and only care for stereo TV audio.

Also, Ray and Beam are not the only options with out latency.  You also have the Arc and Amp, not to mention playbar and playbase if we include retired products.  

Danny
buzz

I prefer to describe the soundbar connections as “low latency” rather than “no latency”. There will always be some processing latency, but perhaps not enough to annoy the human in some cases. Plus, annoyance thresholds vary between listeners. There is also the issue created by poor lip sync at the TV station.

Even with no processing there is the physics of sound propagation. Sound is pokey at about one foot per millisecond. Consider two speakers, ‘A’ and ‘B’ directly wired to the same source and placed 30 feet apart with listeners near each speaker. Listener ‘A’ will claim speaker ‘B’ is 30ms late. Likewise listener ‘B’ will claim speaker ‘A’ is 30ms late. Now consider listener ‘C’ listening from the midpoint between the speakers. Listener ‘C’ will claim that there is no delay. All three observers will be correct.

melvimbe

I prefer to describe the soundbar connections as “low latency” rather than “no latency”. There will always be some processing latency, but perhaps not enough to annoy the human in some cases. Plus, annoyance thresholds vary between listeners. There is also the issue created by poor lip sync at the TV station.

Even with no processing there is the physics of sound propagation. Sound is pokey at about one foot per millisecond. Consider two speakers, ‘A’ and ‘B’ directly wired to the same source and placed 30 feet apart with listeners near each speaker. Listener ‘A’ will claim speaker ‘B’ is 30ms late. Likewise listener ‘B’ will claim speaker ‘A’ is 30ms late. Now consider listener ‘C’ listening from the midpoint between the speakers. Listener ‘C’ will claim that there is no delay. All three observers will be correct.

 

Reminds me of an event my family attended when I was a kid.  There was a fireworks/lightshow downtown that was supposed to be synced to music.  The audience was to listen to pick a random site to sit, maybe even a mile way from the actual show, then turn their portable radio to the right station to hear the ‘synced’ music.  So you had whatever delays occured at the source that was producing the fireworks/light show and accompany audio, transmission to radio station, transmission of the signal from station to portable radios, whatever processing occurred in the radios themselves, plus the speed of sound in the air...with at least 50 radios (all the other groups watching the show)  in hearing range of me.  It was an utter mess.  And of course, people would just turn up their radio in hopes of drowning out all the other radios that were out of sync with their own, which just made it worse.

If such an event were done today, you might be able to make it work by having the audience download the audio in advance and synced to start at the same time...effectively a huge latency.  Even then, you want people to wear headphones to avoid hearing the audio out if sync from nearby sources.

 

Danny
Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @SarahN 

It can be difficult to perceive as our brains have evolved to cope with sight and sound being slightly out of sync due to distance and the difference in the speed of light versus that of sound - as with most things that might “weird us out”, the brain just edits it out (like the fact that our eyes wobble when we move them). Interestingly, this only works one way - we are not at all used to hearing before seeing, so if the picture were to be behind the audio, it would be much easier to notice.

Thanks for sharing your experience, though!

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
jgatie

But you can send TV audio line-in to other rooms/zones (non-rear/sub) devices and not introduce latency, it stays in sync to whats on the TV.  If they handled all line-in like they do their HDMI input line in it wouldn’t be an issue, and it honestly has nothing to do with the wireless rears or sub (or wireless L/R pairing).  Granted Sonos may indeed be doing something with HDMI 2.0 eArc on capable models to ensure lipsync, as eArc supports a lipsync feature but the Ray and Beam 1 (or Sonos Amp) don’t support it.  I use the HDMI optical adapter with the HDMI input on the Amp for a second line-in for a CD player (turntable is on the RCA line-in) and it doesn’t have the same delay as the turntable line in, and can be grouped to other areas just as well...

 

You either didn't read what was posted, or you didn't understand it.  Either way, I'm not going to argue with you.  Go ahead and keep thinking there is somehow Sonos is able to overcome the laws of physics but doesn't do it because it has some hatred of people who want to use their products are computer speakers.  

PS - In your example above, the CD player output is delayed ~70 ms when sent to other rooms.  The line in is delayed 70 ms to all rooms.  So there is a difference.  Why you don't sense it is another question, but it's there.

jgatie

I can guarantee there is not a 70ms (I think you mean 75ms) delay in grouped tv audio sent to other zones…

I just tested this, watching a lip sync vid on youtube via ATV4K…  played out Arc (that is paired with L/R rears and a sub for a fulll 5.1 setup) and then grouped via the Sonos app to a Move I sat next to the TV to test this.  They were in sync… and definitely not 70ms delayed from the video… which is what I would expect if Sonos adds 75ms to it because its grouped with another zone.  I could group and ungroup and it stayed in sync.

No argument that Sonos adds 75ms (minimum) to RCA line-in, but they do not do so to their hdmi line-in source.  Maybe because its all digital and can be fed wirelessly right away without building a buffer i don’t know…

 

 

There is a delay to any room grouped with a TV source, that room will have a discernable lag behind the home theater room.  This is indisputable, and confirmed by dozens of threads here.  The reason for this has been discussed many times in this thread, and is the very reason Sonos cannot make a lag free analog line in (and has nothing to do with any ADC/DAC going on).  Read the thread before speaking definitively on this subject again.

A
Userlevel 1
Badge +2

Hi everybody,

 

For my part,  I have been using for a while 2 Era 100 in stereo pair, connected to my computer with a single adapter.

The latency of 75ms does not bother me, I only listen to music. I even tried with a video and the lag is barely perceptible.

On the other hand, as the adapter is only connected to one of the two Era 100s, is the sound reproduced is realy in stereo on the pair? (I can't quite hear the difference).

because I can't find the information if the jack input of the adapter is stereo?

 

Thank you for your answers

 

Small update...
I posted too fast (and thought too slowly...) 😅
I just realized I could try with a stereo test on Youtube. And finally the sound is well sent in stereo in pair of Era 100 👍

jgatie

I’m still a little confused by this thread.

If I connect my roam via bluetooth to my PC, I observe a delay, is this the 75ms ‘sonos’ delay?

Reason I ask is when I connect a UE Megaboom via bluetooth that is around 7-8 years old, and I don’t observe a lag.

I fully understand the 75ms line in delay, but does this 75ms also apply to a direct bluetooth connection to Roam, ie the bluetooth connection is treated in same way as a line in connection?

 

Just a guess, but since the Roam can be used as a Bluetooth input when grouped with other Sonos speakers, then the same buffer is needed for the Bluetooth input as for the Line-In input.  

S
Userlevel 2

I want to do the following connection: Mac mini --- Sonos AMP --- passive bookshelf Speakers. Will I get the dreaded delay? Thanks

 

P.S. The article by James L. says the delay is with the Connect:Amp. Also, lots of great content above.

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

I want to do the following connection: Mac mini --- Sonos AMP --- passive bookshelf Speakers. Will I get the dreaded delay? Thanks

Depends how they are connected.

You can’t connect the Mac Mini directly to the AMP via HDMI, you need to send the Mac Mini to a TV then use the HDMI-ARC output of your TV to the AMP.  No delay.

If your Mac Mini has optical output you can also use that with the optical adapter. No delay.

You can use the analog input of the AMP, but then you’ll get the delay.

If you Airplay from the Mac Mini I think you’ll get the delay, but I’m honestly not sure about that.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
S
Userlevel 2

I want to do the following connection: Mac mini --- Sonos AMP --- passive bookshelf Speakers. Will I get the dreaded delay? Thanks

Depends how they are connected.

You can’t connect the Mac Mini directly to the AMP via HDMI, you need to send the Mac Mini to a TV then use the HDMI-ARC output of your TV to the AMP.  No delay.

If your Mac Mini has optical output you can also use that with the optical adapter. No delay.

You can use the analog input of the AMP, but then you’ll get the delay.

If you Airplay from the Mac Mini I think you’ll get the delay, but I’m honestly not sure about that.

 

Thanks controlav. Airplay should have a small but noticeable delay. Shame about the complicated HDMI and analog delay as my Mac mini (M1) does not have the optical out. Looks like I will have to get something that is not Sonos which works well for this.

 

Thanks again.

A

Hello, thank your for your article, but when you are connected with bluetooth to a Roam, is it possible to group two Sonos One SL at the same time ? And choose stereo mode with the One’s ?

James L.
Badge +17

Hello, thank your for your article, but when you are connected with bluetooth to a Roam, is it possible to group two Sonos One SL at the same time ? And choose stereo mode with the One’s ?

Yes, this is possible 🙂

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Str8rydder & @craigski 

I have updated the original post so Amp is included in the list of devices that will induce a delay - thanks for pointing it out!

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
T
Badge

Hi,

I got a Beam Gen 1 as a speaker for my PC. At the first time it gave me the good experience for streaming from my PC. But recently it started having problems playing the sound. it gives me the sound of the flickering signal. I have checked all the ports on my PC and they are working fine. I don’t know what is the problem here. Does anyone have the same problem?

 

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

You don’t say if it is an HDMI or optical link to the Beam but in either case I’d suspect a PC or driver issue is the root problem.

You could get it to happen and submit a diagnostic to Sonos then call Support to see if they can identify the issue.

W

What about the original old speakers such as the Play 1 or Play 3?  Any hope for the original Sonos supporters who believed on your product when it all started? Or have we all been forgotten?  Thanks 

Huh? Those were never described as PC speakers, not intended for such use. Are you expecting a software update to magically add line-in, Bluetooth or digital inputs? You can use those today as you always have been able to, for music or as surrounds.

Trying to use Play 1’s and a Connect as an aggregate device in Mac OS as surrounds with an Apollo X as an interface, but cannot figure out how to set it up

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