Lost surround and sub ( after update ?)



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Userlevel 1

I spoke to Sonos today, i informed the senior member from the ‘Escalation Team’ of this thread and many others online. I was informed Sonos are dealing with it as a case by case issue and did not accept this as a known issue.

 

This is not the news we wanted to hear. This simply sounds like ‘we are on our own’.

(Thanks for sharing @LukeB95)

It’s not the response I wanted ether, feels silly replacing a product that’s going to have the same faulty firmware.

Userlevel 3
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Hi all,

We understand the frustration any customer feels when your experience isn’t what it should be.

We equally understand the frustrations around and apologise for the recent communications that have led to confusion about the 14.6 update.

Please be assured that your listening experience, the sound quality, and the performance of our products is and will remain our absolute priority.

If you experience a dropout or any other issue on your system, please contact support with your diagnostic report from within 10 minutes of the drop-out occurring and we will look into it right away.

There are different reasons why drop outs may occur, and we want to make sure that we can help you.

Seeing as this topic is not resolved for those commenting, I have removed the ‘best answer’ until further notice.

I had a pre-arranged SONOS - Ampac call with higher level support after spending hours with regular support. I have submitted over 10 diagnostics. I have all the diagnostic numbers still.

I was informed I would hear back from support on May 10th after the issue had been discussed internally. Never heard back from support. No email, No phone call. Nothing. Details below. Kindly, tell me exactly how much more time I should spend talking to support. How should I proceed?

Date and Time: Saturday, May 07, 2022 - 4:00PM EDT
Preferred Phone Number: XXXXXX
Alternate Phone Number:  
Confirmation Number: G196288M
Case #:

03872226

Userlevel 4
Badge +3

Hi all,

We understand the frustration any customer feels when your experience isn’t what it should be.

We equally understand the frustrations around and apologise for the recent communications that have led to confusion about the 14.6 update.

Please be assured that your listening experience, the sound quality, and the performance of our products is and will remain our absolute priority.

If you experience a dropout or any other issue on your system, please contact support with your diagnostic report from within 10 minutes of the drop-out occurring and we will look into it right away.

There are different reasons why drop outs may occur, and we want to make sure that we can help you.

Seeing as this topic is not resolved for those commenting, I have removed the ‘best answer’ until further notice.

I had a pre-arranged SONOS - Ampac call with higher level support after spending hours with regular support. I have submitted over 10 diagnostics.

I was informed I would hear back from support on May 10th after the issue had been discussed internally. Never heard back from support. No email, No phone call. Nothing. Details below. Kindly, tell me exactly how much more time I should spend talking to support. How should I proceed?

Date and Time: Saturday, May 07, 2022 - 4:00PM EDT
Preferred Phone Number: XXXXXX
Alternate Phone Number:  
Confirmation Number: G196288M
Case #:

03872226

It’s because they have nothing to tell you other then remove and add rears and sub or blame your internet connection.

Also, I find it very provocative of Sonos to state that they want us to file more diagnostics. It has been 4 weeks+. Don’t they have all the diagnostics they need to fix it by now?

It feels more like they are deflecting and trying to blame it on their customers.

Perhaps it’s more a case that there are a number of different factors that users here are experiencing with a variety of different TV hardware/peripherals - there is no obvious pattern seen in the lengthy thread here and if you look back through the posts, there are some that lack any diagnostic reports.

Indeed, a couple of users appear to have suddenly joined the forum and within a day or so, mention in their first post that they are selling all their thousands of pounds of recently purchased Sonos equipment because of this and then proceed to advertise ‘rival’ products that they plan to purchase as an alternative? That just makes me personally dubious as to the real extent of the issue, but clearly some users here are (without any doubt) genuinely experiencing this issue since the v14.6 update and maybe dealing with the matter on a ‘case by case’ basis, will resolve it for all soon anyway. 

Userlevel 3
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I would encourage people to make their voices heard in other forums and on social media. In reddit for example there are a few threads about this issue but the community in general seems to be unaware of the issue.

I am fortunate to have my purchase be protected by quite strict consumer protection laws, so I will simply be returning my system in full if this problem is not solved quite soon.

But until then I will make sure that this issue is on the radar of other current or potential customers.

I would personally take a different approach to @Foxis and that is to submit a Sonos diagnostic report to this thread when you encounter the issue - it’s that reporting process that will likely get the matter resolved far more quickly than threatening to ‘shoot the bunny’.

Userlevel 3
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Also, I find it very provocative of Sonos to state that they want us to file more diagnostics. It has been 4 weeks+. Don’t they have all the diagnostics they need to fix it by now?

It feels more like they are deflecting and trying to blame it on their customers.

Perhaps it’s more a case that there are a number of different factors that users here are experiencing with a variety of different TV hardware/peripherals - there is no obvious pattern seen in the lengthy thread here and if you look back through the posts, there are some that lack any diagnostic reports.

Maybe that is the case. However, had they been interested in solving the problem I would have expected some followup to my own diagnostic reports. The only thing I have heard is that I have been escalated and someone will contact me. Have they though? Nope.

Userlevel 3
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I would personally take a different approach to @Foxis and that is to submit a Sonos diagnostic report to this thread when you encounter the issue - it’s that reporting process that will likely get the matter resolved far more quickly than threatening to ‘shoot the bunny’.

You can do both. However, at some point you just lose patience and want to move on with life. I am not paid to do QA for Sonos.

Userlevel 6
Badge +7

If you experience a dropout or any other issue on your system, please contact support with your diagnostic report from within 10 minutes of the drop-out occurring and we will look into it right away.

Hi @James L. 

Thanks for the comments, it's reassuring to hear a Sonos voice back on the forum again. 

I spent over 2 hours on a call today (which is completely fine) providing very explicit details of the issue and went through my setup, symptom's, current diagnostic approach, lots of questions and several tests. The good news was that we was able to replicate during the 2 hour call and 10+ diagnostics were submitted for analysis. Some when the system was working normally, some when the issue occurs. The case for this is 03907201 but waiting for an email as I had to leave to pick up my children from school. (Email has not arrived in the last hour). By the time I had to leave the call, support noted they had seen an error (when subs/rears dropped) but yet to understand what that is and if it's relevant to the issue. 

All,

The issue was replicated when changes sources/apps and then the sound dropped. Previously I had been playing a film on loop for many hours and nothing had dropped. This ‘extended single source’ test I have done a few times before and the sound has been solid. Mess around with formats, and the issue occurs. 

I don't think I can do much more to support remediation path at this stage. The support team seem satisfied with my remediation attempts and its down to the analysis of what they can see within the 10+ diagnostics submitted during the call.

As always, I'll keep you posted when I hear something back from Sonos. 

Thanks,

Brad

 

@Brad Porter

Admittedly that’s the sort of approach I would prefer to take, had I been experiencing this issue. I still believe giving Sonos the data/information they really need, is the best way to resolve the issues, rather than running off to other forums/outlets and shouting about the problem from the rooftops as @Foxis would have us all do. 

All that ‘impatient’ shouting achieves nothing other than creating pressure on people to put a ‘sticking plaster’ on the issue quickly, which will undoubtedly continue to leak, whereas I think it’s better for Sonos to cast their net wide, gather all the data/information they need and then allow them time to fix, test their work and release a software update that will hopefully solve the problem once and for all.

Userlevel 3
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I spoke to Sonos today, i informed the senior member from the ‘Escalation Team’ of this thread and many others online. I was informed Sonos are dealing with it as a case by case issue and did not accept this as a known issue.

 

The solution was to replace our Arc under warranty. Even after I informed them I am not the only one experiencing this exact issue.

 

I’ll keep you guys posted if this solution is the solution… doubtful.

Wow….so glad I’m out of the ecosystem.  They basically went in to our homes and stole our systems with this update, then refuse to even acknowledge the issue.  I will say this, stock on components is low everywhere, so if you are researching alternatives, don’t wait too long...

Userlevel 3
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@Brad Porter

Admittedly that’s the sort of approach I would prefer to take, had I been experiencing this issue. I still believe giving Sonos the data/information they really need, is the best way to resolve the issues, rather than running off to other forums/outlets and shouting about the problem from the rooftops as @Foxis would have us all do. 

All that ‘impatient’ shouting achieves nothing other than creating pressure on people to put a ‘sticking plaster’ on the issue quickly, which will undoubtedly continue to leak, whereas I think it’s better for Sonos to cast their net wide, gather all the data/information they need and then allow them time to fix, test their work and release a software update that will hopefully solve the problem once and for all.

@Ken_Griffiths 

Are you paid by Sonos to shoot down legitimate opinions? You do not even appear to be experiencing the issue by your own description? Do you just hang around other threads defending Sonos for free? Hardly.

I HAVE been in contact with Sonos, and given them numerous diagnostics. I am STILL waiting for their tech / escalation team to get in touch with me. They simply don’t call or email when they say they will.

So again, at some point my patience runs out and I will call them out on their bad customer service.

 

Userlevel 6
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just an update to my current workaround. for the time being I’ve been setting my Apple TV to “change format: dolby digital 5.1” and had eARC off on my TV and this has avoided the issue thus far. for atmos content I would manually change the apple tv audio back to “auto”

 

yesterday I was tinkering around with my TV settings (sony a9g) and I discovered if I leave eARC off and turn passthrough mode OFF I can leave my Apple TV audio on auto and now get the source DD5.1 plus signal is correctly sent to sonos and atmos will play automatically as well. this is actually my ideal set up now as I didn’t really like how Sonos handles LPCM especially the lower volume. so while this bug is still not fixed it has actually lead me to a better set up for my preferences in my living room system. Obviously this only works for me because I exclusively use Apple TV in this room and now have no need for eARC

 

crossing my fingers I continue to not encounter the issue in my game room system

Userlevel 3
Badge +1

just an update to my current workaround. for the time being I’ve been setting my Apple TV to “change format: dolby digital 5.1” and had eARC off on my TV in and this has avoided the issue thus far. for atmos content I would manually change the apple tv audio back to “auto”

 

yesterday I was tinkering around with my TV settings (sony a9g) and I discovered if I leave eARC off and turn passthrough mode OFF I can leave my Apple TV audio on auto and now get the source DD5.1 plus signal is correctly sent to sonos and atmos will play automatically as well. this is actually my ideal set up now as I didn’t really like how Sonos handles LPCM especially the lower volume. so while this bug is still not fixed it has actually lead me to a better set up for my preferences in my living room system. Obviously this only works for me because I exclusively use Apple TV in this room and now have no need for eARC

 

crossing my fingers I continue to not encounter the issue in my game room system

This is a bit confusing/misleading. You still need the eArc to send audio to the Arc, right?

It’s Apple TV 4K → HDMI → Sony TV → eArc HDMI → Sonos Arc. Correct?
So no matter what settings you use, the eArc port is still in play for audio transport, right?

Userlevel 6
Badge +6

just an update to my current workaround. for the time being I’ve been setting my Apple TV to “change format: dolby digital 5.1” and had eARC off on my TV in and this has avoided the issue thus far. for atmos content I would manually change the apple tv audio back to “auto”

 

yesterday I was tinkering around with my TV settings (sony a9g) and I discovered if I leave eARC off and turn passthrough mode OFF I can leave my Apple TV audio on auto and now get the source DD5.1 plus signal is correctly sent to sonos and atmos will play automatically as well. this is actually my ideal set up now as I didn’t really like how Sonos handles LPCM especially the lower volume. so while this bug is still not fixed it has actually lead me to a better set up for my preferences in my living room system. Obviously this only works for me because I exclusively use Apple TV in this room and now have no need for eARC

 

crossing my fingers I continue to not encounter the issue in my game room system

This is a bit confusing/misleading. You still need the eArc to send audio to the Arc, right?

It’s Apple TV 4K → HDMI → Sony TV → eArc HDMI → Sonos Arc. Correct?
So no matter what settings you use, the eArc port is still in play for audio transport, right?

yes I’m still using the eARC port but I turned off eARC on my TV so that just normal HDMI ARC is used. I suspect this bug has something to do with LPCM and/or Dolby MAT which wouldn’t be used over regular HDMI ARC

@Ken_Griffiths

Are you paid by Sonos to shoot down legitimate opinions?

I’m just a Sonos user, retired and living in the UK - not paid a penny. Just an enthusiast, nothing more. Initially posted in this thread trying to help those who were experiencing these issues and made a few suggestions early on to try to assist.

You do not even appear to be experiencing the issue by your own description? Do you just hang around other threads defending Sonos for free? Hardly.

No, I’m not experiencing this issue, but it doesn’t mean that I would not try to help others here try a few things to perhaps try to resolve the issue. Oh and ‘yes’, it was all for ‘free’.

I HAVE been in contact with Sonos, and given them numerous diagnostics. I am STILL waiting for their tech / escalation team to get in touch with me. They simply don’t call or email when they say they will.

So again, at some point my patience runs out and I will call them out on their bad customer service.

It’s just a case of waiting patiently, for the reasons outlined, as this looks like a case where different people have different issues across different setups, but with a similar outcome. It’s not just about you and your own setup here. If you can’t wait patently, then that’s something you perhaps need to fix yourself.

I’m sure Sonos want this issue fixed, just as much as you and everyone else here. 

Userlevel 3
Badge +1

just an update to my current workaround. for the time being I’ve been setting my Apple TV to “change format: dolby digital 5.1” and had eARC off on my TV in and this has avoided the issue thus far. for atmos content I would manually change the apple tv audio back to “auto”

 

yesterday I was tinkering around with my TV settings (sony a9g) and I discovered if I leave eARC off and turn passthrough mode OFF I can leave my Apple TV audio on auto and now get the source DD5.1 plus signal is correctly sent to sonos and atmos will play automatically as well. this is actually my ideal set up now as I didn’t really like how Sonos handles LPCM especially the lower volume. so while this bug is still not fixed it has actually lead me to a better set up for my preferences in my living room system. Obviously this only works for me because I exclusively use Apple TV in this room and now have no need for eARC

 

crossing my fingers I continue to not encounter the issue in my game room system

This is a bit confusing/misleading. You still need the eArc to send audio to the Arc, right?

It’s Apple TV 4K → HDMI → Sony TV → eArc HDMI → Sonos Arc. Correct?
So no matter what settings you use, the eArc port is still in play for audio transport, right?

yes I’m still using the eARC port but I turned off eARC on my TV so that just normal HDMI ARC is used. I suspect this bug has something to do with LPCM and/or Dolby MAT which wouldn’t be used over regular HDMI ARC

Would be interesting to see if the problem reoccurs for you, since I (and some other users) do not use eArc. My Sony is a generation before eArc so my sound is through a “regular” Arc. I still get the problem, no matter what settings I use on the TV or the Apple TV...

Userlevel 6
Badge +6

just an update to my current workaround. for the time being I’ve been setting my Apple TV to “change format: dolby digital 5.1” and had eARC off on my TV in and this has avoided the issue thus far. for atmos content I would manually change the apple tv audio back to “auto”

 

yesterday I was tinkering around with my TV settings (sony a9g) and I discovered if I leave eARC off and turn passthrough mode OFF I can leave my Apple TV audio on auto and now get the source DD5.1 plus signal is correctly sent to sonos and atmos will play automatically as well. this is actually my ideal set up now as I didn’t really like how Sonos handles LPCM especially the lower volume. so while this bug is still not fixed it has actually lead me to a better set up for my preferences in my living room system. Obviously this only works for me because I exclusively use Apple TV in this room and now have no need for eARC

 

crossing my fingers I continue to not encounter the issue in my game room system

This is a bit confusing/misleading. You still need the eArc to send audio to the Arc, right?

It’s Apple TV 4K → HDMI → Sony TV → eArc HDMI → Sonos Arc. Correct?
So no matter what settings you use, the eArc port is still in play for audio transport, right?

yes I’m still using the eARC port but I turned off eARC on my TV so that just normal HDMI ARC is used. I suspect this bug has something to do with LPCM and/or Dolby MAT which wouldn’t be used over regular HDMI ARC

Would be interesting to see if the problem reoccurs for you, since I (and some other users) do not use eArc. My Sony is a generation before eArc so my sound is through a “regular” Arc. I still get the problem, no matter what settings I use on the TV or the Apple TV...

oh interesting. I’ll definitely update the thread if I encounter the issue again

Userlevel 6
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@Foxis may I ask what Sony TV you have?

Userlevel 3
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I wrote a letter to Patrick Spence (ceo@sonos.com)

------------------------

Patrick,

The 14.6 firmware released on April 19th introduced a serious audio desync/dropout issue to Sonos home theater systems resulting in echoing of Subs and Surrounds attached to the Arc, as well as full drop outs. I and many others have suffered with this issue for over a month — an issue which makes my home theater system completely unusable given the only way to stop the echoing is to unplug my devices roughly every 10-15 minutes when attempting to watch a movie. Hundreds of users are struggling with this issue, and in fact, I suspect everyone with an Arc on 14.6 has it. Your customer service team has repeated batted away reports from users as due to “network interference.” My system (wired to the Arc and using SonosNet) worked fine prior to the 14.6 update, and I have not made any changes since then. You can find a 20 page thread on the topic here:

https://en.community.sonos.com/home-theater-228993/lost-surround-and-sub-after-update-6868561?postid=16594103#post16594103

I’ve spent my 25 year career as a software engineer, 4 of those years spent as a senior manager at AWS and currently as a CTO of a startup here in Los Angeles. Needless to say, I know how to configure my network, and I have been on the development and operations side of many live services vastly larger than anything your company makes.

So, regrettably, after a month with no acknowledgement of this issue by Sonos and no clear path towards a resolution, I have opted to replace my system. This wasn’t easy. I’ve enjoyed my Sonos system for many years and wireless whole home audio has, until recently, served me well. Yesterday, I ordered a Bluesound Home Theater system (Pulse Soundbar+, Sub+, and a pair of Pulse 2is) for $3,882.89 (invoice attached). If I am happy with the Bluesound solution, I will promptly replace all Sonos products (13 of them, listed below).

I’m so disappointed at how this issue has been handled by Sonos. I have half a mind to drive up from Hollywood to Santa Barbara to dump all this worthless gear at your doorstep.

Regards.

Userlevel 3
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@Foxis may I ask what Sony TV you have?

Not @Foxis, but I have a Sony X900H (using eARC).

Userlevel 3
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@Foxis may I ask what Sony TV you have?

A KD-55XE8505. I have toyed around with the various settings on the TV itself and on the Apple TV. Currently I have the TV set to not touching the audio format or compression and setting the Apple TV to change the format to Dolby 5.1 plus.

That has worked flawlessly before and been the best experience I could get out of the setup (as I can’t get Atmos to work through the TV since it lacks eArc).

Since the problem I have tried setting the Apple TV to not change the audio format (which just gives me PCM from the TV to the Arc) and fiddling with the Sony TV settings, none of which has helped.

If someone has any idea regarding settings on the TV or Apple TV 4K I would be happy to try them out, but as it stands I don’t think it will make a difference to the sound or the problem.

Userlevel 6
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@Foxis may I ask what Sony TV you have?

A KD-55XE8505. I have toyed around with the various settings on the TV itself and on the Apple TV. Currently I have the TV set to not touching the audio format or compression and setting the Apple TV to change the format to Dolby 5.1 plus.

That has worked flawlessly before and been the best experience I could get out of the setup (as I can’t get Atmos to work through the TV since it lacks eArc).

Since the problem I have tried setting the Apple TV to not change the audio format (which just gives me PCM from the TV to the Arc) and fiddling with the Sony TV settings, none of which has helped.

If someone has any idea regarding settings on the TV or Apple TV 4K I would be happy to try them out, but as it stands I don’t think it will make a difference to the sound or the problem.

do you have any other sources or is it just Apple TV?

Userlevel 3
Badge +1

@Foxis may I ask what Sony TV you have?

A KD-55XE8505. I have toyed around with the various settings on the TV itself and on the Apple TV. Currently I have the TV set to not touching the audio format or compression and setting the Apple TV to change the format to Dolby 5.1 plus.

That has worked flawlessly before and been the best experience I could get out of the setup (as I can’t get Atmos to work through the TV since it lacks eArc).

Since the problem I have tried setting the Apple TV to not change the audio format (which just gives me PCM from the TV to the Arc) and fiddling with the Sony TV settings, none of which has helped.

If someone has any idea regarding settings on the TV or Apple TV 4K I would be happy to try them out, but as it stands I don’t think it will make a difference to the sound or the problem.

do you have any other sources or is it just Apple TV?

The TV itself and a PS4 and a PS5. When the problem occurs it remains on all of them, and even with music playback started with the Sonos app.

The system has to be manually hard restarted (powering down/up the Arc) or be asleep for a while (hours) for the problem to go away. After which it will return as soon as I pause, change media from the source (ie. switch content on the Apple TV) or switch source. The symptom can be:

  • Total cutout
  • Delay from the rears and sub
  • Random short dropouts, to be followed by one of the above

Setup worked well before 14.6.

As others I link the problem to codec switches. For example, when playing a movie on the Apple TV I can see that the system receives Dolby 5.1, whereas moving back to the netflix menu (for example) will drop the system back to PCM and then up to Dolby 5.1 again once Netflix plays a trailer or a new series/movie. That switch (and any action that triggers a codec switch) will trigger the problem 90% of the time.

Userlevel 6
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@Foxis may I ask what Sony TV you have?

A KD-55XE8505. I have toyed around with the various settings on the TV itself and on the Apple TV. Currently I have the TV set to not touching the audio format or compression and setting the Apple TV to change the format to Dolby 5.1 plus.

That has worked flawlessly before and been the best experience I could get out of the setup (as I can’t get Atmos to work through the TV since it lacks eArc).

Since the problem I have tried setting the Apple TV to not change the audio format (which just gives me PCM from the TV to the Arc) and fiddling with the Sony TV settings, none of which has helped.

If someone has any idea regarding settings on the TV or Apple TV 4K I would be happy to try them out, but as it stands I don’t think it will make a difference to the sound or the problem.

do you have any other sources or is it just Apple TV?

The TV itself and a PS4 and a PS5. When the problem occurs it remains on all of them, and even with music playback started with the Sonos app.

The system has to be manually hard restarted (powering down/up the Arc) or be asleep for a while (hours) for the problem to go away. After which it will return as soon as I pause, change media from the source (ie. switch content on the Apple TV) or switch source. The symptom can be:

  • Total cutout
  • Delay from the rears and sub
  • Random short dropouts, to be followed by one of the above

Setup worked well before 14.6.

As others I link the problem to codec switches. For example, when playing a movie on the Apple TV I can see that the system receives Dolby 5.1, whereas moving back to the netflix menu (for example) will drop the system back to PCM and then up to Dolby 5.1 again once Netflix plays a trailer or a new series/movie. That switch (and any action that triggers a codec switch) will trigger the problem 90% of the time.

interesting. with my workaround on my TV I have “digital audio output” set to Auto 1 which in fact takes Stereo PCM and outputs it as Dolby Digital Plus 2.0 so with this current setup I’m always seeing Dolby Digital Plus 2.0/5.1 or Dolby Atmos (still DD+). I wonder if because its never switching to PCM in my case that's why it avoids the issue

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