Even the CEO doesn't get it! At some point - maybe as early as May we have three choices:
1. Freeze the system as it stands effectively crippling any "modern" units from future upgrades/features.
Or
2. Split our systems into two with all the inconveniences that will inevitably cause (how many of us tick everywhere on our systems 99% of the time?).
3. Spend even more money on new equipment such as the Connect replacement that does not have the functionality of the old unit i.e. no optical out.
All this based on some wonderful future upgrade that is somehow going to need more memory. Are we getting the "HiRes Audio" upgrade? Doubtful as my system with 10 units struggles to stream Flac now even on a clear channel (anyone noticed a gradual deterioration since the days of version 7 of the software?). Maybe DTS?
As I see it, the fact still remains that if I opt for the ‘split’ Sonos systems (so I can get updates for my Moderns) then I will not be able to group across that split or sync music across it.
If my assumption is still correct, then Mr Spence’s letter does nothing for me.
Thank you that someone at Sonos had the good sense to correct this. That was an incredibly stupid communications/strategy blunder which I am sure was driven by the need to keep quarterly numbers up for wall street.
Thanks SONOS - I spent over 4K on your system and now I am being told I need to upgrade… at it will cost me another 4K. A 30% discount is a joke. Open to anyone elses thoughts as to other options since I am effectively having to start over. This blows!
“We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state”
Okay it seems to mean that they are still going to split systems here….how many systems will we have with future roll-outs?
Would you like to add your new Play 16 to the system? I’m sorry that system is no longer supported?
Would you like to add your new Play 16 to the system? I’m, sorry that system is also no longer supported?
Would you like to add your new Play 16 to the system? I’m, sorry that system is also no longer supported?
Would you like to create a new system? Congratulations you have added your new Play 16 to System 12.
Would you like to update Play 16 now? I’m sorry System 12 is no longer supported.
This is so disappointing. What was such a great brand is ruined in a day.
I have invested a ton of money, have bragged about sonos products, encouraged others to join the sonos team. And now you render all of this obsolete by labeling the old products legacy...what a sham. These products are not even old. But no support going forward?
Please tell me you are going to reconsider.....or o will never buy another sonos product ever again.
Thank you that someone at Sonos had the good sense to correct this. That was an incredibly stupid communications/strategy blunder which I am sure was driven by the need to keep quarterly numbers up for wall street.
Read it again - he hasn't corrected anything - he has just reiterated what has already been said.
Wow. They’ll be studying this PR disaster in business schools for years to come. Deleting the thread of customer complaints only poured gasoline on the fire. That was just monumentally stupid.
I’ve read through the original announcement and the “clarification” multiple times. The latter simply restates the former, but with added claims about “understanding” and “hearing” customer concerns. The only substantive difference I can discern is that originally the split-system option was a possibility for May. Now it’s a possibility “in the coming weeks.” Impressive.
How on earth can you claim that legacy products will continue to operate as before when they will no longer co-exist on the same system as eligible-for-update products? The integrated system is pretty much the sole reason I invested in Sonos.
Some of us are accustomed to unwelcome obsolescence — hey, I’ve been an Apple user for decades! But it’s rare to see these transitions handled so ineptly: first in a graceless and high-handed way, followed by a smarmy repetition of the original statement, accompanied by the reek of corporate panic.
We need clarity, if a provider changes their API is this deemed a bug fix or a new feature. The letter doesn’t tell us anything new. Sonos without a major content provider such as Spotify is significantly less valuable. Is that a bug fix because it’s Spotify which carries more weight than say local radio? Only time will tell.
@MrSwadge = Yeah… I read that too quickly with far too much optimism, and missed the lack of anything tangible being offered. I quickly edited my post, still not a satisfactory response.
@MrSwadge and @Taco5layer, this chunk speaks to that:
While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.
These devices are already strained hardware wise, but if something core to the experience changes, we’ll do what we can for as long as possible.
So, to be clear, you are stating that Sonos will patch breaking changes by third-party providers to keep music services functional until there is a solid technical reason that it is no longer possible. e.g. buffer underrun where the processor cannot keep up with the stream. That scenario seems unlikely given that we’re talking about an audio stream at a given bitrate which is audibly the same to most humans if increased.
For as long as possible, we’ll be keeping them updated with bug fixes and security patches. These devices have already reached the limit of their memory and processing power, but as long as a fix is possible for a change, we’ll do the best we can to get it fixed.
I am sure that it’s been a tough day Ryan, but just to say that if I cannot play the same music in all 6 rooms, where 2 rooms are “legacy” and 4 rooms are “modern”, i.e. party mode, then it’s game over.
I spend thousand of dollars for my SONOS system and now it’s a crap. And trading it up for a 30% discount is more than a slap in the face it’s a joke. I think we the people affected should make a petition or else we all end up empty handed. Hence they got our money they became rich and we lose. This is will come to a legal matter. Let’s all our voices be heard.
As I see it, the fact still remains that if I opt for the ‘split’ Sonos systems (so I can get updates for my Moderns) then I will not be able to group across that split or sync music across it.
If my assumption is still correct, then Mr Spence’s letter does nothing for me.
Yep! Total bull! Here’s a thing. Last Thursday. Last week! I ordered a Sonos amp to add to my system. Friday it was delivered. Set it up. Pretty happy with it. Sounds quite good through some huge floorstanders I have. Happy bunny. Cost me £500. Lot of money but it fits in with the rest of my Sonos system. I know it’s a good product etc. We all get it yeah?
Now a week after ordering it! I find that due to me having a connect in my system a bad tooth in the hifi mouth I will never be able to update this £500 amp and keep it in the same network I bought it for I will not be able to use it as advertised effectively. I am now reeling.
you just don’t get it do you! We all bought into a system, not a speaker, not a streamer, not an amp a system you have just broken a lot of people’s systems for good unless you find a better way I sincerely hope you can.
I will only add that beyond everything stated on cost and customer loyalty, the waste alone that my legacy and fully functioning products would create - coupled with that of everybody else’s - is alarming. Has Sonos given no thought on creating massive amounts of unnecessary hazardous e-waste? That is as troublesome to me as the potential lost financial investment I may be facing. One of the reasons I spent more on Sonos was that I assumed I would be investing in electronic equipment that would last longer and create last damage to the planet.
Thank you that someone at Sonos had the good sense to correct this. That was an incredibly stupid communications/strategy blunder which I am sure was driven by the need to keep quarterly numbers up for wall street.
Your first sentence is, sadly, incorrect. Some of Sonos’ current management seemingly wouldn’t recognise good sense even if it ran into them. None of the soon-to-be former CEO’s latest e-mail is anything other than standard corporate waffle. Your second statement is true; at least that was the intention. That worked well…..
Why dont they come up with a program to UPGRADE our existing hardware with new processing and memory to stay current at a fractionary cost of new (including the tradeup 30%)???? I’d send one in at a time to go thru that or send in and exchange for a tested upgraded hardware unit!
Sonos loyal customers have saved for years to build their Sonos systems in their homes and are proud of it.
Patrick because of this you have personally destroyed your loyal base and made us all feel we now have garbage for a sound system. I now look at my devices as Thousands of dollars of junk That I am embarrassed to own. Worst yet I had to apologize to my friends and family for your greed.
now you’re trying to convince us that Sonos has a great pipeline of new products that are coming. All I see now is that you will be added more and more of our Sonos components to your legacy list. And your offering a split system as a solution. Or buy new for 30% off. Do you think we are dopes?
well it is very clear now that the Sonos business model has changed to get customers to purchase updated products even when the hardware is still in perfectly working order. This business model will fail. Customers will not put up with this.
good luck on your upcoming earnings call. You’re going to need it.
I have enjoyed my Sonos system but will not be adding to it. The meager 30% discount will have me looking to competitors which is astounding considering 72 hours ago I was the most loyal Sonos customer. It can happen that fast, the invisible hand. Who is running this company anyway? The shareholders need to make some changes at the top before it is too late. If the questions on this forum are not answered soon, my Sonos hardware will go for sale online to some unsuspecting fool to purchase and I will be off to a different solution other than Sonos. That’s how a free market economy works. If you don’t understand that, then you shouldn’t be running a company. To a previous poster it’s Olufsen. See you there...
We need clarity, if a provider changes their API is this deemed a bug fix or a new feature. The letter doesn’t tell us anything new. Sonos without a major content provider such as Spotify is significantly less valuable. Is that a bug fix because it’s Spotify which carries more weight than say local radio? Only time will tell.
@MrSwadge = Yeah… I read that too quickly with far too much optimism, and missed the lack of anything tangible being offered. I quickly edited my post, still not a satisfactory response.
@MrSwadge and @Taco5layer, this chunk speaks to that:
While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.
These devices are already strained hardware wise, but if something core to the experience changes, we’ll do what we can for as long as possible.
So, to be clear, you are stating that Sonos will patch breaking changes by third-party providers to keep music services functional until there is a solid technical reason that it is no longer possible. e.g. buffer underrun where the processor cannot keep up with the stream. That scenario seems unlikely given that we’re talking about an audio stream at a given bitrate which is audibly the same to most humans if increased.
For as long as possible, we’ll be keeping them updated with bug fixes and security patches. These devices have already reached the limit of their memory and processing power, but as long as a fix is possible for a change, we’ll do the best we can to get it fixed.
I am sure that it has been a tough day Ryan, but just to say that if I cannot use party mode i.e. play the same music in all 6 rooms, 2 “legacy” and 4 “modern”, then it’s game over. Given that 3 of the “modern” rooms are Play:1, how long before you declare them to be “legacy”?
Wow. They’ll be studying this PR disaster in business schools for years to come. Deleting the thread of customer complaints only poured gasoline on the fire. That was just monumentally stupid.
I’ve read through the original announcement and the “clarification” multiple times. The latter simply restates the former, but with added claims about “understanding” and “hearing” customer concerns. The only substantive difference I can discern is that originally the split-system option was a possibility for May. Now it’s a possibility “in the coming weeks.” Impressive.
How on earth can you claim that legacy products will continue to operate as before when they will no longer co-exist on the same system as eligible-for-update products? The integrated system is pretty much the sole reason I invested in Sonos.
Some of us are used to unwelcome obsolescence — hey, I’ve been an Apple user for decades! But it’s rare to see these transitions handled so ineptly: first in a graceless and high-handed way, followed by a smarmy repetition of the original statement, accompanied by a reek of panic.
The old thread was not deleted - there was just a new one made for the continued discussion. The old one is here: https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-updates-for-legacy-products-6835470
But otherwise I agree that it was silly of management to stay away during the rage - and then get into the game without any real news.
if by “split system” you mean that I will not be able to play the same music in “both” systems simultaneously then my system is essentially dead, isn’t it? Mostly dead, anyway.
I have Sonos throughout my house; I’ve recommended it to others. I’ve given Sonos as gifts….
This is bad.
Given that Sonos already issued investor guidance months and months ago that this legacy plan was in the works, that they viewed a seriously negative reaction from loyal evangelist customers as a real risk, and that it would probably harm sales if it went as badly as they thought possible - I’m not sure why they are claiming to be caught by surprise now.
The letter doesn’t reveal much more than we already knew. There is some attempt at warm words, but there’s no meat on the bones here. I think all this will do is stoke the fire back up again.
My advice would be try and get to a place where you feel confident you have an executable and detailed plan you can sell to existing customers ASAP. Very few people are going to calm down until they see much more detail about what you intend on doing to legacy devices.
Same here! I purchased 4 Connect Amps which represent a significant $ outlay, and now we’re being told “your done, buy something new”. The offer to upgrade at 30% doesn’t dampen my displeasure at this announcement, nor is it even tempting. Sonos’ equipment is expensive to begin with, so 30% to replace equipment 5-6 years’ old is a woefully inadequate proposal. Sonos has its work cut out for them to retain customers and to change our minds so that we stick with Sonos and continue to refer friends to these products.
Dear Patrick,
I completely agree with all the sentiments expressed above and in the media. This is a move that clearly demonstrates arrogance, hubris, and a complete disregard for the customers who have adopted your products, and for the friends, partners and dealers who have advocated for Sonos as a trusted brand. That trust is gone, and it was your direct action that killed it.
I’ve spent several thousand dollars on Sonos hardware, and I’ve advocated it to countless friends and customers for years, and in one selfish swoop, you’ve damaged an entire trust ecosystem, never mind making us look like chumps.
Business books are filled with stories like this… brands that became great by making a product that the market wanted, then failing spectacularly by believing that they could milk and abuse those customers and they’d still keep coming back. They don’t. You have unlimited chances to build customer trust, and one chance to destroy it.
And please don’t insult the collective intelligence of those who were smart enough to have picked your product in the first place. We understood the product’s value then, and we could afford to pay the premium for it. We know enough to understand that this isn’t about technological limitations, but about greed and stupendous insensitivity to your market - us. This is a music streamer, not an augmented reality gaming processor.
We can only hope that the Sonos board and its investors will hear and understand the reaction to this and respond by reversing course.
You’re hearing the initial fallout now from those who are plugged-in and paying attention. The fallout will continue, and become a much bigger crescendo as the broader public (your market) finds out and becomes as pissed-off as we are. Brands are built on great customer experiences… not this.
Patrick… you’re the CEO. You’re supposed to know better than this. It’s your only job to know better than this.
Regards,
Andy
Raising the prices toward the end of last year by 30% and now telling all the legacy owners that they are getting a 30% discount, sounds like a big bag of crap.
Im done with giving Sonos a single dime more,
RIP SONOS
Retailers were evidently selling older, deprecated Connects and Connect:Amps long after 2015.
I bought a brand new Play 5 Gen 1 from a local store about six months ago. As far as I’m aware, they still have another one for sale….
WE DO NOT WANT SPLIT SYSTEMS. REPEAT: WE DO NOT WANT SPLIT SYSTEMS. Thanks for at least responding, but WE DO NOT WANT SPLIT SYSTEMS. It’s very simple.
Agree. This is not what be purchased.
THIS! Ryan S, can you please make sure your team is clear on this? . . . so we at least feel we are being heard as to what we are trying to get across as the deal breaker for most of us?
We all understand we may not be able to run new services or capabilities on a paired system, with a “legacy” speaker (Ie: Play 5 Gen 1, Connect: Amp) paired with new equipment (Move, Play One, Amp) - but we expect to be able to pair (ie: play existing streaming services like Spotify, Apple Music, Music Libraries, ect) legacy speakers simultaneously WITH new speakers so we have a complete whole home audio solution (we do not want split systems as morgan4x4 emphasizes perfectly above). This is why we have Sonos - a whole home integrated audio experience. We would also expect to be able to software update, new “non-legacy” additions we make - as we continue to buy more components from you - to the newest software (again, understanding that some features become unavailable once a legacy unit joins the play pairing - this should be invisible and seamless).
If this does not happen, I know I will pull the plug - because I would lose one of my primary reasons for purchasing Sonos. It is frustrating still having uncertainty (but it is to be expected because Sonos probably doesn’t know what they can do yet) . . . as I was about to pull trigger on a couple of Moves, a new Playbar, and a Sub for a new California room and pool. I now must pause to see how this all plays out; and research alternatives just in case Sonos can’t execute.
If what is mentioned above is not possible (first wish), then massively jack-up the discount offered for replacements. I think my walkaway number would be anything less than 50% . . . other’s mileage may vary . . .
Or make some sort of CPU/box that allows this integration (legacy speaker with non-legacy speaker pairing) if necessary that you can sell at a reasonable price . . .
