End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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K

 

 I suppose if your hellbent on staying 11.0 no matter what, with 0% chance of ever moving on, then it makes sense.

 

 

Are you alluding to the possibility that he is escaping from Sonos? :wink:

 

 

I am done with Sonos, so 11.0 is it for me. Whatever bugs that remain unaddressed in it, are ones that do not bother me today.  I shall remain in legacy system mode till my Sonos hardware dies, replacing it with alternatives I prefer, as and when the need arises in future.

In that sense, yes, I am escaping from Sonos:-).

Once the dust settles on this pandemic, months from now, I will move to S1 that has finished with its shakedowns, to take advantage of security updates it will receive, that I am sure Sonos will not confer on 11.0. At this point in time, given all that is coming down the pipes all over the world, it makes no sense to me to pioneer forward to S1, if that is going to have be done in the middle of a world in chaos.

YMMV.

melvimbe

 

Are you alluding to the possibility that he is escaping from Sonos? :wink:

 

Huh? How did you come to that conclusion? Ken wasn’t eluding to anything, he was asking for clarification of what Kumar was alluding to.

 

I hate grammar and spelling police who try to “win” a discussion by pointing out trivial things, but Ken is clearly a smart guy and, if he is anything like me, will appreciate having out the error of spelling/usage of a similar sounding word pointed out in a humorous way (attempted humorous way, at least.) Not meant seriously, hence the smilie.

 

It looked like a misinterpretation of Ken’s statement.  To be honest, I completely missed the allude/elude reference and the joke in there and I’m just now seeing it. (heck, I used the wrong world myself without realizing it)  My bad, didn’t see what you were going for there.

Danny
melvimbe

Once the dust settles on this pandemic, months from now, I will move to S1 that has finished with its shakedowns, to take advantage of security updates it will receive, that I am sure Sonos will not confer on 11.0. At this point in time, given all that is coming down the pipes all over the world, it makes no sense to me to pioneer forward to S1, if that is going to have be done in the middle of a world in chaos.

YMMV.

 

I’m not following how the pandemic makes migrating from 11.0 to 11.1 (or whatever the last legacy update is) a pioneering effort.  Honestly, I see no difference in the next update compared to the 10.9 (or whatever it was) to 11.0 update and every update before that.  

Also, I think you, and everyone else, are pretty much already S1/legacy, we are just not yet updated to the last version of S1.  Perhaps a better definition of S1 is...everything not S2.

Danny
Ken_Griffiths

 

Global Pandemics aside, I will just allude to the fact that my plan is to elude the sonos S1 legacy system at the earliest opportunity, post May, without too much delay ...I just hope I have that correct this time... ha ha🤞

More importantly however, whichever side of the S1/S2 fence a users viewpoint may lie within this thread, or elsewhere, I sincerely hope that absolutely everyone here (including relatives & friends) remain safe.👍

K

 

I’m not following how the pandemic makes migrating from 11.0 to 11.1 (or whatever the last legacy update is) a pioneering effort. 

You did not notice the YMMV at the end of my post.

My thinking is not rocket science. At this time, every gadget and appliance that I have is running under the “If it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it” regime. Sonos has done nothing to suggest it has earned or even needs a different approach.

I also doubt that S1 will be as minor a change as 11.0 to 11.1; and even any such minor change that precedes the move to S1, I shall not allow inside my system till the world gets back to near normal. 11.0 is a nice, round and easy to remember version. 

The only exception I am making is for updates to my Mac, since I used it for net banking.

Smilja

I imagine S1 is going to be a renamed v11.x.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
106rallye
Userlevel 7
Badge +17

@Kumar You state: “I also doubt that S1 will be as minor a change as 11.0 to 11.1; and even any such minor change that precedes the move to S1, I shall not allow inside my system till the world gets back to near normal. 11.0 is a nice, round and easy to remember version. “

Why wouldn't it be? Sonos has said S1 will not loose any of the thing all Sonos’ can do now immediately. So why would it be different from what we have now? 

For internet connected appliances (like Sonos) the “if it ain't broke. don't fix it”-approach seems unwise, because fixes also contain security updates. "Broke” can also be broke in the sense that your Sonos would contain a security issue because you haven't updated it.

G

Please fix YOUR legacy problem!

Just create a NEW “Bridge” to keep all hardware working as one system! Everybody will except that new features can’t be introduced on very old hardware. But making home audio systems after a few years "legacy products" is not acceptable for a very high priced product.  And it will cost Sonos many very loyal customer who have been advocates for Sonos for many years.
Technically it is possible to even add Airplay 2 to all speakers via a NEW Bridge with simply better specs. Sonos customers deserve this from the company they supported for many years.

FYI I use Airplay (1) on ALL my Sonos speakers via a very simple software product on my Synology NAS and have All my sonos speakers in HomeKit / Siri.

There is more possible by software then you (@sonos) think!

Regards Guido 

PS 

from the Sonos website:

“Easily connect speakers over WiFi to create the sound system you want, and expand it any time.”

Ken_Griffiths

Please fix YOUR legacy problem!

Just create a NEW “Bridge” to keep all hardware working as one system! Everybody will except that new features can’t be introduced on very old hardware. But making home audio systems after a few years "legacy products" is not acceptable for a very high priced product.  And it will cost Sonos many very loyal customer who have been advocates for Sonos for many years.
Technically it is possible to even add Airplay 2 to all speakers via a NEW Bridge with simply better specs. Sonos customers deserve this from the company they supported for many years.

FYI I use Airplay (1) on ALL my Sonos speakers via a very simple software product on my Synology NAS and have All my sonos speakers in HomeKit / Siri.

There is more possible by software then you (@sonos) think!

Regards Guido 

PS 

from the Sonos website:

“Easily connect speakers over WiFi to create the sound system you want, and expand it any time.”

Isn’t what you mention here, just the same as purchasing perhaps a Sonos One SL, or the cheaper IKEA Symfonisk speaker and grouping either one of those devices with any (or every) old (or new) Sonos device? ..and then AirPlaying Music to the group(s)?

 

I understand with AirPlay bonjour mDNS multicast communication, that an AirPlay source will play to AirPlay receivers on the same network subnet. So you could, for example, have two. or more, entirely separate Sonos Households on a home network, lets call them HH1 and HH2.

  • HH1 might contain a mix of old legacy devices like Play:5 (gen1’s), old ZP90 etc. and a symfonisk speaker.
  • HH2 might contain several newer Sonos products, including a Sonos One SL.

So all a user has to do is play either one, or two, simultaneous audio streams from any Airplay2 capable App, either from a PC/Mac, or iOS mobile device ...and direct one stream to the symfonisk device in HH1 and the other stream to the Sonos One SL in HH2… see example screenshot of an "iOS AirPlay device-list" doing just that type of thing on my home network.

 

Both devices in the separate Sonos Households play in sync. So it’s then just a case of grouping those two playing devices with any other speakers available in their respective households using their sonos controller App.

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K

"Broke” can also be broke in the sense that your Sonos would contain a security issue because you haven't updated it.

To me, that is a much smaller risk in comparison, and I can live with it till the pandemic is over and I can risk another Sonos update.

YMMV.

H

When can we get a clear, simple roadmap for future products? i love the play 5’s and 1’s and do not want to invest in obsolete or soon to be obsolete devices. I upgraded a 5 to the Move and IMO the audio quality is not near the old 5. The mobility is nice, but not necessary. IMO. The voice is nice with Alexa but a security issue, so again not necessary, IMO.

D
Userlevel 2
Badge +3

Sooner or later everything gets obsolete, 

i dont think sonos Will announce a new play5 this year maybe not even next year, its not even 5 years old, and the ram and memory is good enough for many more years to come, the 11 year old play5 lasted 11 years with 32mb

i dont think sonos Will stop update the gen2 after 5 years just because theres a new gen3, they dont want another ****storm, i just bought myself another gen2 and i love them, and i believe they have enough to last 10 years from now, or maybe longer, look on the brightside you get 30% discount when they stop updating them so you can buy new ones, i dont know any other company that does that they way sonos do

 

Moderator: edited for profanity

U
Badge +1

Why not just leave the ‘legacy’ devices exactly as they are now, which is what Sonos has suggested? After the May change, they’ll continue to work in exactly the same way as they do today, including having “whole house connectivity”. No need to deal with the line in, unless you’re already using it. If your system works today, it will continue to do so. You just won’t get new features, if you have a legacy device. Or am I misunderstanding your post?

It's not that hard to understand: what will happen when Spotify - for example - updates its app? If Sonos doesn't check those updates to make their devices compatible, or you don't have those new Spotify features, or worse, you won't be able to play Spotify on Sonos at all.

Please let everyone who doesn't understand this know at once!

W
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

When can we get a clear, simple roadmap for future products? i love the play 5’s and 1’s and do not want to invest in obsolete or soon to be obsolete devices. I upgraded a 5 to the Move and IMO the audio quality is not near the old 5. The mobility is nice, but not necessary. IMO. The voice is nice with Alexa but a security issue, so again not necessary, IMO.

I think you made a mistake if you thought the Move was an upgrade to the 5, at least from an audio quality perspective. The Move is more like a beefed up One, that you can easily move around, than a 5. The price kind of reflects that too… the 5 is still the “best” Sonos speaker, again in terms of audio quality.

U
Badge +1

I was going to expand my Sonos collection with Home Cinema for my living room… I had the decision made and the money ready, and now I'm probably not going to do it.

I can't understand and my wallet supports that a self-powered speaker like the Play 5 (580€) should be replaced because it has stopped doing EVERYTHING it could do. And I mean directly to stop playing Spotify.

 

If I spend that money it's because I buy speakers for "life", just like when I buy HIFI speakers.

Someone will say, "The product you're buying is a mix of HIFI and Soft/Hardware."

For God's sake, it's the year 2020! Software should NOT be the cause of a technology product's defection.  

 

As a long-time Sonos customer, I would only understand one thing, for Sonos to say publicly:

“Product replacement has been motivated by lack of memory and storage. When Sonos started manufacturing and selling their products, we didn't consider that this problem could occur.

We've already planned for the new X Gb memory and storage models, and we guarantee all of our customers that this replacement process will be the only one, and it won't happen with the new Sonos. Your equipment may be outdated in its design but never in its current performance.”

 

However, looking at the hardware capabilities of the new models, it doesn't seem that they have taken it very seriously. And that's something I don't understand. The hardware may have been priced higher than it is today, but with the current costs and the price of a Sonos product, why have they been provided with 0.5GB and 1GB only?

 

106rallye
Userlevel 7
Badge +17

@ursula1000  You state “I can't understand and my wallet supports that a self-powered speaker like the Play 5 (580€) should be replaced because it has stopped doing EVERYTHING it could do. And I mean directly to stop playing Spotify.” The current Play 5 (Gen 2) will be supported for years to come, because it is still in production. It wil not stop playing Spotify. The old Play:5 might in future have less functionality, but no one knows if that wil hit Spotify playback. All soundbasr have more memory than the current Play 5 so no worries in that area.

You state: “For God's sake, it's the year 2020! Software should NOT be the cause of a technology product's defection.“ I would say that we are facing this problem (not only with Sonos by the way) just because it is 2020. Look at your phone, you Chromecast, you Hue Bridge (v1). All hifi manufacturers are running in to this. I owned a Marantz receiver, that was updated for two years aftre I bought it. Aftre that nothing - not even sucurity updates. In this respect Sonos is very much ahead of the competition in stille attending to legacy devices in the coming S1 software.

If you want all that Sonos offers you but you do not want to be bound to their hardware, Sonos caters for this: you could buy a couple of Ports and an old fashioned (not internet connected) hifi-system for every room in your house.

 

D
Userlevel 2
Badge +3

I understand that people are afraid to buy into sonos gear, hopefully sonos Will explain everything next month, i just hope they update modern speakers that they stop selling in the future for more than 5 years, and really do their best for their costumers, you cant ask for more than that, but theres probably always going to be that feeling, what If, what If i buy today and they release a newer 1 next month, i am however not worried about the ram/storage, but i am worried that they stop updating lets say play3 just cus 5 years has passed even If they can squeeze out more updates, i just gotta believe in sonos...

U
Badge +1

@ursula1000  You state “I can't understand and my wallet supports that a self-powered speaker like the Play 5 (580€) should be replaced because it has stopped doing EVERYTHING it could do. And I mean directly to stop playing Spotify.” The current Play 5 (Gen 2) will be supported for years to come, because it is still in production. It wil not stop playing Spotify. The old Play:5 might in future have less functionality, but no one knows if that wil hit Spotify playback. All soundbasr have more memory than the current Play 5 so no worries in that area.

You state: “For God's sake, it's the year 2020! Software should NOT be the cause of a technology product's defection.“ I would say that we are facing this problem (not only with Sonos by the way) just because it is 2020. Look at your phone, you Chromecast, you Hue Bridge (v1). All hifi manufacturers are running in to this. I owned a Marantz receiver, that was updated for two years aftre I bought it. Aftre that nothing - not even sucurity updates. In this respect Sonos is very much ahead of the competition in stille attending to legacy devices in the coming S1 software.

If you want all that Sonos offers you but you do not want to be bound to their hardware, Sonos caters for this: you could buy a couple of Ports and an old fashioned (not internet connected) hifi-system for every room in your house.

 


> I am referring to Play 5 (gene 1) and its 32 Mb.
Regarding Spotify. Despite having a large collection of music on my NAS, I've only been playing streaming music on Spotify for years. When they make changes to their system, if Sonos not updated this changes, I will lose functionality and in the worst case there will be playback errors or you will not be able to play them at all.


> We're not talking about a single device (a cell phone, a roku, a laptop..). We're talking about an ecosystem with many devices and lots and lots of money. Also, Sonos hardware is limited (small processor, storage and ram). If you take into account an extended lifetime and add to the new models a processor, ram and rom enough, we should not change our systems in the next 30 years.

> I've already thought about replacing the whole system with a few HiFi speakers and many Ports.

I have Sonos in 6 different rooms (kitchen, bathroom, living room, bedrooms...), total budget: 6 port x 449 = 2,694, -30% = 1,885 To this we have to add the most important thing, to buy 6 new self-powered speakers !
Moreover, taking into account future replacements, each Port is 449€, a price too expensive as it is neither a speaker nor an amplifier.

 

106rallye
Userlevel 7
Badge +17

I feel with you that anything you buy should last longer, though I think a lifetime expentancy of  30 years for connected devices is a very, very long time. It would even be considered long for non-connected devices. If you stay on S1 software you wil not immediately run into trouble, so there's no end to your Play:5 (Gen 1) yet.

I agree with you that the Port is expensive. As the Port is fairly new (introduced last year), I would not consider replacements yet. At least you would “only” need to replace the Port and not the whole system. 

Ken_Griffiths

> I've already thought about replacing the whole system with a few HiFi speakers and many Ports.

I have Sonos in 6 different rooms (kitchen, bathroom, living room, bedrooms...), total budget: 6 port x 449 = 2,694, -30% = 1,885 To this we have to add the most important thing, to buy 6 new self-powered speakers !
Moreover, taking into account future replacements, each Port is 449€, a price too expensive as it is neither a speaker nor an amplifier.

Perhaps see this sonos document link below about running your sonos products in either ‘S1 Legacy’ or ‘split’ mode, which should mean you do not need to change your existing products at all, as they can work, exactly as they do now.

 

Sonos S1/S2 Overview
 

Hope that information proves to be helpful to you.

U
Badge +1

I already knew it Ken_Griffiths, but thanks anyway.

K

@ursula1000 : I have about 12 sonos speakers in 4 audio only zones, because I have never in the past felt that Sonos made sense for my home cinema needs for which I have a dedicated room - and even so, with just a quality stereo amp and 2 HiFi speakers for the audio needs of a large plasma screen. The speakers are so good that I don't even need a subwoofer for movie effects.

In my case, I am using most of my zones in mix and match mode already even for pure audio because of poor Sonos voice control capability - I have Echo devices from the simple Dot to a more featured Show 8 wired to line in jacks on my Sonos devices.

Therefore for me, this Sonos decision merely accelerates my departure from Sonos where mix and match will mean staying in legacy mode, and replacing such Sonos kit that suffers hardware failures in future years.

With some application of mind, it is possible for anyone that wishes to leave the Sonos bandwagon, to do so with no inconvenience.

P

I am a long time Sonos user and have spent thousands of dollars on your products. I am no longer going to spend a single penny on your products any more. 
 

I don’t even own these ”obsolete” products. I’m just worried now you’re going to do the same thing to the speakers I bought only 4 years ago. I can’t trust any speaker you sell today will become obsolete in a couple of years. I want my system to continue to receive updates and work with older speakers.

 

What a shame. I felt so much loyalty to Sonos

Agree totally

C
Userlevel 3

Thank you for accelerating my decision to get rid of my Sonos products.  It is amazing how quickly one decision can destroy a brands reputation.  Good luck, I will never buy your products again….and will share this with others. 

N
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

I’ve been following this for a long time, and have 5 zones, of which only two are “modern”. Ironically of the two Connect:amps only one is S2 compatible, plus a Play 3.  And a Boost, also S2.

Now what I still utterly fail to understand is down to this: Sonos net is a mesh network, porting digital audio around the house over WiFi, in my case mostly from a NAS drive with FLACs, a little internet radio and Spotify occasionally.  My existing Connect (actually a ZP90, though I have a spare unused Connect still in its box which somehow Sonos think I’ve registered!) manages this task beautifully despite having a tiny amount of memory and storage.  Audio quality (into a high end Audiolab/KEF setup) is absolutely excellent and it never buffers, yet this is achieved with only the smallest amount of memory in the entire range.  As far as I can see, the Connect is not on its own doing any of the clever stuff required to play Spotify or access internet radio.  So - why can’t there be just ONE “smart” component that can do the clever stuff and then simply send the audio to all the other components?  If I was designing an optimised system, that is what I would do.  Why on earth is this not possible?  Come on, Sonos, the world isn’t full of millennials with a couple of Ones, plus an iPhone, who only stream online music.  We know that a single component can be used to add new features to a system, witness the addition of one Airplay-compatible component (e.g. a One or a Symfonisk) can currently add AirPlay compatibility to the entire system. So the smart features DO NOT need to be in every component!

 

Until this fundamental question is answered, Sonos stand accused of pulling the wool over a huge community of users. Give us a smart new Boost, it needn’t have any audio output, let it it feed audio to all components over WiFi, job done.  We would happily buy a new Boost every few years to keep up to date.

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