End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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jgatie

 

I get that, and changes to the protocol may impact bandwidth, especially sound coordination at high bitrates, etc.  But making them simply not communicate would be poor design.  Wireless standards (which Sonos still uses a common wireless spectrum with billions of other devices) haven't changed.  Saying that they cant technically make the devices group at the least common denominator is a business decision, not a technical one.

 

WIthout intimate knowledge of the code and underlying design, you have no way of knowing that.  And you most certainly should not be critiquing an underlying design when you have no knowledge of its inner workings.  

U

 

I get that, and changes to the protocol may impact bandwidth, especially sound coordination at high bitrates, etc.  But making them simply not communicate would be poor design.  Wireless standards (which Sonos still uses a common wireless spectrum with billions of other devices) haven't changed.  Saying that they cant technically make the devices group at the least common denominator is a business decision, not a technical one.

 

WIthout intimate knowledge of the code and underlying design, you have no way of knowing that.  And you most certainly should not be critiquing an underlying design when you have no knowledge of its inner workings.  

 

Thats a fair point.  I cant critique the difficulty.  My point stands - If they changed the protocol so much that they cant coordinate playback between the devices anymore, then I’d argue they designed to not account for their base use case.  

It’s a moot point though.  The decision is made.  I probably shouldn't be complaining on a message board anyways.  It’s just frustrating to know I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place on future Sonos purchases.  I may be at a point in a few years where I have to make a decision - replace all of the 700 dollar pieces of equipment at once if one fails (Or, I want an upgraded feature in one room), or switch to something that can accomplish my base case of room grouping much much more cost effectively at that time since I’m doing a full swap.

To be clear: I love this product, I love the interface, I love the design.  The flexibility is amazing, and I love that they add new features.  I dont need Dolby Atmos on my patio though.  Bottom line.  Make me a 300 dollar amp that supports S2 - do something to give me options here.

A
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I’m good with the business model - and your point is spot on.  I respect that they have to make money and they are pressured to create reoccurring revenue.  That being said, there are things that are table stakes in a platform.  IMHO, throwing a bone to something as basic as grouping is the Sonos base value prop.  My 8 year old laptop can still connect to Wifi.  It may be a bit slower, the websites wont look as good, the graphics wont be as sharp - but it still fundamentally works.  I think this is one of the key things that has everyone so blatantly angry.  If my AMP dies, and I replace it, It may not work with my other products.  Id I want to add a sound bar, it may not work with my other products, for something that I bought SONOS for as a basic function: the same music coming from each device at the same time.  Cant add new music services?  fine.  Cant support higher bitrate or lossless protocols?  get it.  Cant make a Atmos 5.1 or 7.1 grouped system?  Get it.  Breaking grouping is an obvious statement: we are forcing obsolescence to make you upgrade functioning hardware that you paid a 500% premium for - which we new we were paying for that going in.

 

 

Totally agree with all your points. They’ve created a fair amount of uncertainty for owners going forward and broken some trust IMO.  But let’s see what June and beyond bring us. I’m optimistic that S2 products will get some good software upgrades before they roll out S3 in a few years.

melvimbe

I’m good with the business model - and your point is spot on.  I respect that they have to make money and they are pressured to create reoccurring revenue.  That being said, there are things that are table stakes in a platform.  IMHO, throwing a bone to something as basic as grouping is the Sonos base value prop.  My 8 year old laptop can still connect to Wifi.  It may be a bit slower, the websites wont look as good, the graphics wont be as sharp - but it still fundamentally works.

 

It’s an apples to oranges comparison.  While it may be good for your laptop to be be a bit slower, that’s not going to work when you need all the devices to be able to work at the same speed, play audio in sync.    The whole platform has to be upgraded, and some devices won’t be able to keep up.

 

  I think this is one of the key things that has everyone so blatantly angry.  If my AMP dies, and I replace it, It may not work with my other products.  Id I want to add a sound bar, it may not work with my other products, for something that I bought SONOS for as a basic function: the same music coming from each device at the same time.  Cant add new music services?  fine.  Cant support higher bitrate or lossless protocols?  get it.  Cant make a Atmos 5.1 or 7.1 grouped system?  Get it. 

 

 

If you aren’t interested in the new features S2 brings that remain on S1 till there’s a reason to upgrade.  You can add new products, just not the 3 newest products.

 

 

Breaking grouping is an obvious statement: we are forcing obsolescence to make you upgrade functioning hardware that you paid a 500% premium for - which we new we were paying for that going in.

 

 

You aren’t forced to upgrade anything.

 

 

I get that, and changes to the protocol may impact bandwidth, especially sound coordination at high bitrates, etc.  But making them simply not communicate would be poor design.  Wireless standards (which Sonos still uses a common wireless spectrum with billions of other devices) haven't changed.  Saying that they cant technically make the devices group at the least common denominator is a business decision, not a technical one.

 

So Sonos should be able to always get speakers to play in sync, regardless of hardware limitations and feature improvements to the system, because wireless standards haven’t changed?

Danny
melvimbe

Thats a fair point.  I cant critique the difficulty.  My point stands - If they changed the protocol so much that they cant coordinate playback between the devices anymore, then I’d argue they designed to not account for their base use case.  

 

I think the argument holds water for platforms/protocols that were recently introduced.  There does need to be an expectation of flexible expansion built into the design.  However, this platform was built a long time ago, before even the iphone existed, back when no one was even streaming audio.   

Danny
Invinoveritasty
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When the Port came out, I got an email offering me a 30% discount to trade up.  I read the email and wondered, why should I do that?  So, I called Sonos to ask that very question: “Why should I do that; what has changed?”  The response I got made little sense to upgrade at the time, and I was told that the trade up could always be done later if I decided it worthwhile.  So I forgot about it.  Well, now I know the real reason -- Sonos is moving to a new OS -- S2 -- and future compatibility requires its devices to have more under the hood.  So, now that I am considering upgrading, the 30% offer is gone!  Apparently, Sonos decided my Connect is strong enough to squeak by for a time; and so Sonos has cancelled its offer to me: the 30% offer just disappeared (I still have the original email - it just goes to an expired webpage -- and I have no upgrade option on my System page next to my “modern” Connect.  I have spent a small fortune on Sonos -- ten pieces in total, five of which are Play 5.  I emailed Sonos to find out why my trade up disappeared.  Not sure why I should spend another penny on Sonos.  It is relatively expensive to being with.  This is no way to treat loyal customers.

106rallye
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d Though I agree it seems strange to retract an offer that wasn’t limited in time (and I’m curious about Sonos’ reaction) I do not understand your disappointment in your “modern” Connect. Sonos expects this has no problem with S2, so you will not have a problem moving to the new software. Where did you get the idea that it wil just “squeak by”?

J

You are disappointed that you don't have to spend any money to enjoy the full benefits of S2?

Strange......

Invinoveritasty
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You are disappointed that you don't have to spend any money to enjoy the full benefits of S2?

Strange......

I don’t particularly enjoy planned obsolescence.  But to each, his own.  Cheers.

J

You are disappointed that you don't have to spend any money to enjoy the full benefits of S2?

Strange......

I don’t particularly enjoy planned obsolescence.  But to each, his own.  Cheers.

Even stranger you should say that given that your Connect isn't obsolete. Your Play:5s, if gen1, were designed 11 years ago. Planned obsolescence? Have you understood anything here?

Invinoveritasty
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I understand exactly.  Enjoy your new product life cycle.  Cheers.

J

And I trust that you will continue to enjoy your older products.  Cheers .

S
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sonos release new 'arc' atmos soundbar

retired: 

playbase (i like the idea of putting your tv on top of a big speaker) 

sub gen 2

 

The Playbase hasn’t been retired, it’s still around for purchase.

i read / heard it had been retired but the journalist may have meant playbar instead.

Smilja

@sm75382, The mistake is mine. Apparently the Playbase has been discontinued too.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
S
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shame as surely the bigger the speaker, more air can be passed around, better sound etc…

with my 3 q acoustics at the front, a sound bar looks pathetic in comparison! especially at £800 (which doesn't include sub woofer or top middle speakers) 

T
Userlevel 1

Hey Sonos - just a simple question:  when will you be releasing S3? How much time do I get to use the new products before they expire?

106rallye
Userlevel 7
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Sonos has promissed to keep supporting devices at least five years from the moment they stop making it. Even now, older products haven't “expired” but only get security updates, so do not get new functions (and older functions may get taken way over time).

Airgetlam

Since there’s no idea what new features may be included in an S3 release, it’s a little hard to predict when this would occur. I’m sure if you’d asked Sonos a few years ago, they couldn’t have predicted when an S2 release would become required. 

Bruce
J

Hey Sonos - just a simple question:  when will you be releasing S3? How much time do I get to use the new products before they expire?

Well, S1 effectively started in 2005. In June it will continue with bug fixes and security updates only.

Past performance is not necessarily a guide to the future. But on the only evidence currently available, 2035 appears to be the best estimate for S3.

How long after that it will be before the new products 'expire' is something I'm not prepared to speculate on 

jgatie

Don't bother folks, just a bitter troll trying to keep this thread relevant.

P
Userlevel 1

Don't bother folks, just a bitter troll trying to keep this thread relevant.

I personally think it’s a valid question. 7 of my 12 sonos speakers/amps etc are now ‘legacy’, and I purchased a playbase 3 months ago which I now find out they’ve stopped making. I either need to spend $4,000 (which includes the 30% discount) to upgrade the gear I have to S2, or continue running everything as S1 and risk it being redundant in a couple of years when ‘as long as they can’ finishes up. 

 

I’ve just renovated at home and was planning on kitting out the new areas as new zones but now find myself rethinking that decision.

   

jgatie

I personally think it’s a valid question. 7 of my 12 sonos speakers/amps etc are now ‘legacy’, and I purchased a playbase 3 months ago which I now find out they’ve stopped making. I either need to spend $4,000 (which includes the 30% discount) to upgrade the gear I have to S2, or continue running everything as S1 and risk it being redundant in a couple of years when ‘as long as they can’ finishes up. 

 

I’ve just renovated at home and was planning on kitting out the new areas as new zones but now find myself rethinking that decision.

   

 

This thread is 163 pages long.  Your “question” has been asked and answered dozens of times.  You bumping it again to ask the same “question”, which is really just a setup for you to take sarcastic jabs at Sonos, is most certainly the act of a troll.  It’s old.  Let it go.

P
Userlevel 1

I personally think it’s a valid question. 7 of my 12 sonos speakers/amps etc are now ‘legacy’, and I purchased a playbase 3 months ago which I now find out they’ve stopped making. I either need to spend $4,000 (which includes the 30% discount) to upgrade the gear I have to S2, or continue running everything as S1 and risk it being redundant in a couple of years when ‘as long as they can’ finishes up. 

 

I’ve just renovated at home and was planning on kitting out the new areas as new zones but now find myself rethinking that decision.

   

 

This thread is 163 pages long.  Your “question” has been asked and answered dozens of times.  You bumping it again to ask the same “question”, which is really just a setup for you to take sarcastic jabs at Sonos, is most certainly the act of a troll.  It’s old.  Let it go.

I didn’t ask the “question”, but thanks for the personal attack and telling me to move on… If you don’t like the discussion in the thread don’t read it. Some of us genuinely don’t know where to go from here but sounds like you’ve got it sorted, good for you :thumbsup_tone2:

 

E

Don’t know if this already came up, but I couldn’t find it in a search …

What about products from other companies that “Work with Sonos” ?  Are they going to work as legacy or modern?  I don’t have any of these yet, but was looking at other products in the used market to integrate with my Sonos hardware.

Airgetlam

Not sure what ‘totu’ means, but I’d assume after a certain period to update the software on these third party devices, they’d work with S2. It may not change for them at all, and they could possibly support both S1 and S2. I’m not sure what requirements are written in the ‘Works with Sonos’ agreement.

Bruce
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