End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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S

Anyone want to take a bet, that sonos knew all of this back in January.

Why they wanted to keep this a secret i beyond me, the “You will get higher quality music” would have calmed some people down.

Instead they kept everyone in the dark, endured a “storm” and had to rephrase what they said at first, all because they did not just tell the truth from the beginning.

Shares are right now, down to USD 7, from USD ~15 the day before the announcement, and if the trend continues it will be below USD 7 tomorrow or even later today

The entire market is being rocked by the direct and indirect effects of the corona virus. My diversified portfolio is down about 22%. I think this amplifies any downward turn that companies were experiencing. Eventually the markets (and Sonos) will bounce back. But, I don’t know if anyone knows how much of a nose dive we’re going to take in the short and possibly medium term.

I’m down 21% on my diversified portfolio, sonos is 54% down since this saga was kicked off by Spence & co - he should go to try and save the company.

The way sonos has handled all this (and continue to do so) is shocking - I know of no other company in business that is so unprofessional in its strategies and communications

Connect Amp x 3, Connect x 1, Sub x 2, Playbar x 2, Beam x 1, Play 1 x 4, Play 3 x 1, Play 5 x 2, Boost x 1, Symfonisk x 2
A
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Anyone want to take a bet, that sonos knew all of this back in January.

Why they wanted to keep this a secret i beyond me, the “You will get higher quality music” would have calmed some people down.

Instead they kept everyone in the dark, endured a “storm” and had to rephrase what they said at first, all because they did not just tell the truth from the beginning.

Shares are right now, down to USD 7, from USD ~15 the day before the announcement, and if the trend continues it will be below USD 7 tomorrow or even later today

Precisely …. being an average bear, had someone told me I’d get ‘better grade sounds’ this would have been enough to have quelled the heat in exchange for some pain.

And it’s way before the May date that the stoic standard bearers insisted was so important. 

And it is at least quantifiable and useful data and appreciated. Late yes? Messily done yes? Appreciated and useful yes.

Never too late to adopt, adapt and improve. But a shame for the organisation to have created their own land mine and then stepped on it … and gone back to check that they definitely did step on it. 

Maybe now things clear and we regain a little confidence.

A
Userlevel 6
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Anyone want to take a bet, that sonos knew all of this back in January.

Why they wanted to keep this a secret i beyond me, the “You will get higher quality music” would have calmed some people down.

Instead they kept everyone in the dark, endured a “storm” and had to rephrase what they said at first, all because they did not just tell the truth from the beginning.

Shares are right now, down to USD 7, from USD ~15 the day before the announcement, and if the trend continues it will be below USD 7 tomorrow or even later today

The entire market is being rocked by the direct and indirect effects of the corona virus. My diversified portfolio is down about 22%. I think this amplifies any downward turn that companies were experiencing. Eventually the markets (and Sonos) will bounce back. But, I don’t know if anyone knows how much of a nose dive we’re going to take in the short and possibly medium term.

I’m down 21% on my diversified portfolio, sonos is 54% down since this saga was kicked off by Spence & co - he should go to try and save the company.

The way sonos has handled all this (and continue to do so) is shocking - I know of no other company in business that is so unprofessional in its strategies and communications

I agree but in reality there have been many such messes over the years …. ask the ‘new coke guy, the guy who decided to doctor the VW emissions software, a hundred others. My own organisation included.

It has been a mess and I think the pain was amplified as many of us had such a loyalty … even a love for the product and system. We were junior slopes evangelists :-) 

The difference between Sonos and my organisation is that everything would stop, we would fly out and meet in a lofty boardroom (somewhere in Europe and not go home until it was done) and cast a battle plan …. implement and win every one of our customers back. At ‘nearly’ any cost. We would not play with comms and maybe’s we would take the oxygen out of the complainers lungs until they stopped complaining.

There have been reassuring words … they were just slow and un-coordinated. 

This (and the last one a week or two back) does improve matters for me. I say this not to damage Sonos. I still want to love the product. It was just so self destructive to watch it in slow motion

 

melvimbe

 

And it’s way before the May date that the stoic standard bearers insisted was so important. 

 

Sonos stated they would have more details in May.  Whoever ‘stoic standard bearers’ are, they were only repeating what Sonos had stated.

Danny
Smilja

The difference between Sonos and my organisation is that everything would stop, we would fly out and meet in a lofty boardroom (somewhere in Europe and not go home until it was done) and cast a battle plan …. implement and win every one of our customers back. At ‘nearly’ any cost. We would not play with comms and maybe’s we would take the oxygen out of the complainers lungs until they stopped complaining.

 

Sure. At the end of the day you would have won every one of your customers over at the cost of ‘nearly’ going insolvent.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
G
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Very welcome announcement - too late for me.

 

I am sitting listening to a pair of stereo speakers with a separate sub powered by a 192kHz 24 bit DAC on a raspberry pi running piCorePlayer streaming from another raspberry pi with LMS installed on it holding my music collection and quite frankly it knocks the sonos kit into a cocked hat by comparison.

I would never have looked away from Sonos had this debacle not occurred -  but it did, and I did and now I have a much better solution for me. More pi’s are on order to power other zones.

 

These pi’s are so cheap and the dac’s cost very little too - incredibly cheap for the astounding quality of sound and the usability of the Squeezer app on Android is great too.

 

So there it is… too late for me

User694694
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Very welcome announcement - too late for me.

 

I am sitting listening to a pair of stereo speakers with a separate sub powered by a 192kHz 24 bit DAC on a raspberry pi running piCorePlayer streaming from another raspberry pi with LMS installed on it holding my music collection and quite frankly it knocks the sonos kit into a cocked hat by comparison.

I would never have looked away from Sonos had this debacle not occurred -  but it did, and I did and now I have a much better solution for me. More pi’s are on order to power other zones.

 

These pi’s are so cheap and the dac’s cost very little too - incredibly cheap for the astounding quality of sound and the usability of the Squeezer app on Android is great too.

 

So there it is… too late for me

Sounds like a very cool solution for anyone that likes to tinker and dable.

G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Very welcome announcement - too late for me.

 

I am sitting listening to a pair of stereo speakers with a separate sub powered by a 192kHz 24 bit DAC on a raspberry pi running piCorePlayer streaming from another raspberry pi with LMS installed on it holding my music collection and quite frankly it knocks the sonos kit into a cocked hat by comparison.

I would never have looked away from Sonos had this debacle not occurred -  but it did, and I did and now I have a much better solution for me. More pi’s are on order to power other zones.

 

These pi’s are so cheap and the dac’s cost very little too - incredibly cheap for the astounding quality of sound and the usability of the Squeezer app on Android is great too.

 

So there it is… too late for me

Sounds like a very cool solution for anyone that likes to tinker and dable.

Honestly its so easy to configure - have look at https://www.picoreplayer.org/main_getting_started.shtml

its built on a linux distribution of just 12Mb in size

S
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Sonos S2 will enable higher resolution audio technologies for music and home theater.

 

And who will be the first to accuse Sonos of peddling Snake Oil?

User694694
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From Engadget:

“Sonos says will enable some new experiences going forward. While the update isn't coming out until June, the company did share a few features that it'll enable. One is a new grouping feature: if you have multiple Sonos speakers in your house, you'll be able to set up custom room groups, like all your speakers on the first floor. Currently, you need to re-group all your speakers on an individual basis, but this should make common grouping configurations much easier.”

https://www.engadget.com/2020-03-17-sonos-s2-app-operating-system-update-june.html

 

Why does it feel like getting any info about this is like some high school scavenger hunt? Why am I just finding out about this from an Engadget article when on the same say Sonos releases a statement about high resolution audio in the S2 update. If Sonos doesn’t want to release this info, fine, thats their right, but why fragment the information? This is a great feature that I think a lot of people have been asking for and certainly another carrot to upgrade. Why not let us know in the same statement?

C
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Very welcome announcement - too late for me.

 

I am sitting listening to a pair of stereo speakers with a separate sub powered by a 192kHz 24 bit DAC on a raspberry pi running piCorePlayer streaming from another raspberry pi with LMS installed on it holding my music collection and quite frankly it knocks the sonos kit into a cocked hat by comparison.

I would never have looked away from Sonos had this debacle not occurred -  but it did, and I did and now I have a much better solution for me. More pi’s are on order to power other zones.

 

These pi’s are so cheap and the dac’s cost very little too - incredibly cheap for the astounding quality of sound and the usability of the Squeezer app on Android is great too.

 

So there it is… too late for me

Sounds like a very cool solution for anyone that likes to tinker and dable.

Honestly its so easy to configure - have look at https://www.picoreplayer.org/main_getting_started.shtml

its built on a linux distribution of just 12Mb in size

You should install the Material skin plugin on LMS, and then Kiwi Browser on Android.   Fantastic controller solution.

G
Userlevel 6
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Very welcome announcement - too late for me.

 

I am sitting listening to a pair of stereo speakers with a separate sub powered by a 192kHz 24 bit DAC on a raspberry pi running piCorePlayer streaming from another raspberry pi with LMS installed on it holding my music collection and quite frankly it knocks the sonos kit into a cocked hat by comparison.

I would never have looked away from Sonos had this debacle not occurred -  but it did, and I did and now I have a much better solution for me. More pi’s are on order to power other zones.

 

These pi’s are so cheap and the dac’s cost very little too - incredibly cheap for the astounding quality of sound and the usability of the Squeezer app on Android is great too.

 

So there it is… too late for me

Sounds like a very cool solution for anyone that likes to tinker and dable.

Honestly its so easy to configure - have look at https://www.picoreplayer.org/main_getting_started.shtml

its built on a linux distribution of just 12Mb in size

You should install the Material skin plugin on LMS, and then Kiwi Browser on Android.   Fantastic controller solution.

Yeah I’ve been thinking of installing the MS extension

K

Sonos S2 will enable higher resolution audio technologies for music and home theater.

 

And who will be the first to accuse Sonos of peddling Snake Oil?

Thank you for that very good question - it raised a good laugh at a time when laughing is more therapeutic/needed than ever. As did the silence of those that maintained that Sonos never blinks in the face of consumer backlash right up to the time they removed the recycling condition attached to the 30% discount - in the face of just that backlash.

It will also be interesting to see how Sonos markets this feature, having gone on record saying that the science does not justify its introduction. But marketer memories are always conveniently short when needed to be so.

Its introduction was inevitable though, and I remain to not be interested in it, so for me staying in legacy system mode remains a no brainer.

More interesting will be to see what genuine new innovations Sonos adds to units no longer encumbered with the need to remain compatible with 32Mb legacy ones.

A
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The difference between Sonos and my organisation is that everything would stop, we would fly out and meet in a lofty boardroom (somewhere in Europe and not go home until it was done) and cast a battle plan …. implement and win every one of our customers back. At ‘nearly’ any cost. We would not play with comms and maybe’s we would take the oxygen out of the complainers lungs until they stopped complaining.

 

Sure. At the end of the day you would have won every one of your customers over at the cost of ‘nearly’ going insolvent.

I notice when the going gets a little tough facts wise that folks like to extrapolate and cut and dice very specific words and word combinations instead of going with the tone and direction :-)

Not to undermine your position or overplay mine but when you live and work in that world then you take a different view. I don’t know your role and experience and would not pretend to. I know mine.

Is about considered comms, is about knowing your audience, playing to them, not at the cost of all else as I’ve mentioned many times in this thread. But clear and early. 

We can cut and dice and play games or we can recognise the actions of an organisation …. getting it wrong and getting it right. Being able to recognise both things is dispassionate and honest. I can and have and have thanked them when it appears good and raised comment when it appears poor.

Not that it’s hugely important but I struggle to understand the blind faith and default defence that some folks have. 

A
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Very welcome announcement - too late for me.

 

I am sitting listening to a pair of stereo speakers with a separate sub powered by a 192kHz 24 bit DAC on a raspberry pi running piCorePlayer streaming from another raspberry pi with LMS installed on it holding my music collection and quite frankly it knocks the sonos kit into a cocked hat by comparison.

I would never have looked away from Sonos had this debacle not occurred -  but it did, and I did and now I have a much better solution for me. More pi’s are on order to power other zones.

 

These pi’s are so cheap and the dac’s cost very little too - incredibly cheap for the astounding quality of sound and the usability of the Squeezer app on Android is great too.

 

So there it is… too late for me

And this is the point that some on the thread just don't seem to get .…. how many examples are needed to underline the credibility. 

I have also entered that new pool and whilst not quite as far to the deep end as you, I’m not far off. 

The announcement I can’t fully absorb yet but it sounds good overall. And either way I appreciate the effort to communicate status. Good or bad. And that is key …. customers can locked into a holding pattern with the right noises regularly made. If you don’t get the messages you will land elsewhere as you have.

A
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Sonos S2 will enable higher resolution audio technologies for music and home theater.

 

And who will be the first to accuse Sonos of peddling Snake Oil?

Thank you for that very good question - it raised a good laugh at a time when laughing is more therapeutic/needed than ever. As did the silence of those that maintained that Sonos never blinks in the face of consumer backlash right up to the time they removed the recycling condition attached to the 30% discount - in the face of just that backlash.

It will also be interesting to see how Sonos markets this feature, having gone on record saying that the science does not justify its introduction. But marketer memories are always conveniently short when needed to be so.

Its introduction was inevitable though, and I remain to not be interested in it, so for me staying in legacy system mode remains a no brainer.

More interesting will be to see what genuine new innovations Sonos adds to units no longer encumbered with the need to remain compatible with 32Mb legacy ones.

Solid stuff well said

T
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Very welcome announcement - too late for me.

 

I am sitting listening to a pair of stereo speakers with a separate sub powered by a 192kHz 24 bit DAC on a raspberry pi running piCorePlayer streaming from another raspberry pi with LMS installed on it holding my music collection and quite frankly it knocks the sonos kit into a cocked hat by comparison.

I would never have looked away from Sonos had this debacle not occurred -  but it did, and I did and now I have a much better solution for me. More pi’s are on order to power other zones.

 

These pi’s are so cheap and the dac’s cost very little too - incredibly cheap for the astounding quality of sound and the usability of the Squeezer app on Android is great too.

 

So there it is… too late for me

Sounds like a very cool solution for anyone that likes to tinker and dable.

Honestly its so easy to configure - have look at https://www.picoreplayer.org/main_getting_started.shtml

its built on a linux distribution of just 12Mb in size

I just Love Raspberry Pis, and have all sorts doing all sorts of Weather Data Logging, Solar Photovoltaic Output Logging etc. etc., Also being a Linux Geek I have been looking around.

I think it is worth considering this option https://www.max2play.com/en/ which I am almost certainly going to move over to in the near future, or even get a nice mini amp with valves and drive that from the Pi. Endless opportunities to mess about.

K

I just Love Raspberry Pis, and have all sorts doing all sorts of Weather Data Logging, Solar Photovoltaic Output Logging etc. etc., Also being a Linux Geek I have been looking around.

I think it is worth considering this option https://www.max2play.com/en/ which I am almost certainly going to move over to in the near future, or even get a nice mini amp with valves and drive that from the Pi. Endless opportunities to mess about.

Absolutely, and I was one that was nervous to even approach it because of the naked board! Now I have two units:-).

Where I am concerned, this Sonos event was a big blessing in disguise - for more on why I say that, see:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index22.html

 

T
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Where I am concerned, this Sonos event was a big blessing in disguise - for more on why I say that, see:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index22.html

A good read@Kumar, Thank you!

as for turning the Pi Off you can add a simple Press Button and a Python Script to monitor a GPIO Port and shut down when button is pressed, there are loads of examples on the Net.

I have started testing a PowerBoost 500+ with a Li Battery and a little bit of electronics (Electrolytic Capacitor, resistor, transistor and a relay) so when the mains is turned off to the PowerBoost, the Pi shuts down, the relay closes and the battery turns off. Then when you turn the power on again, the relay opens, and the Pi starts up. It works too. Simples…!

 

 

A
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Off topic in a way but reading the S2 statement ….

It says (and this might be really good … nice for a tone change 🙂 ) ….

“Sonos S2 will enable higher resolution audio technologies for music and home theater.

Most Sonos products will be compatible with S2. If all of your products are compatible, you will be able to download the app and get started when it’s available in June.”

I may be reading this wrong (hope not) but is that meaning that S2 category products will support High Res if S2 update is deployed? I.e that High Res will be available in June? If so super news and very interesting.

If not what does it mean please? Know many of you are better at shaking data out than I am.

That’s not a Q aimed at criticising Sonos (it’s their comms and management that disappoint not product for me) but clarification that could help me enthuse me as to the way forward. 

melvimbe

Sonos S2 will enable higher resolution audio technologies for music and home theater.

 

And who will be the first to accuse Sonos of peddling Snake Oil?

Thank you for that very good question - it raised a good laugh at a time when laughing is more therapeutic/needed than ever. As did the silence of those that maintained that Sonos never blinks in the face of consumer backlash right up to the time they removed the recycling condition attached to the 30% discount - in the face of just that backlash.

 

 

Sonos had never really blinked in the face of backlash before, and that was the message that myself and others had stated.  Obviously, that has changed and there can’t be any real assumption of consistency from Sonos in maintain there decisions.  I wouldn’t even limit factors that change Sonos decisions to ‘customer backlash’ anymore.  I mean, I think Sonos could change it’s mind on a previous decision with or without customer backlash as a reason.

 

It will also be interesting to see how Sonos markets this feature, having gone on record saying that the science does not justify its introduction. But marketer memories are always conveniently short when needed to be so.

.

I’m not disappointed that they are offering hi-rez going forward.  I will be disappointed if they try and claim that hi-rez audio will sound better than CD-quality audio.

 

Not that it’s hugely important but I struggle to understand the blind faith and default defence that some folks have. 

 

People tend to look at these things as black and white.  You’re either holding a pitch fork with everyone else or you’re a blind devotee.    It’s often quite reasonable to have a position somewhere between the two.  For example, I do think that Sonos needed to separated it’s modern and legacy units as they are planning to do.  I also think that it’s a big potential burden on those that are invested in many legacy speakers.  I think Sonos made several missteps in the messaging of these changes, how it was presented and retreating back on previous decisions.  Of the three things above, people tend to focus on the first statement, ignoring the other two...that’s just human nature.  Points of disagreement stand out more than points of agreement.

Danny
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Your comment reminds me of my own some time back ‘ the evangelists, the frustrated and the 80% :-) 

I remain part of the (statistically inaccurate) 80% … but hey, seems some of the call of the great un-washed is being listened to. Absolutely not a bad thing. They pay the bills and should influence (just a little) steer of the ship.

This message is early. The message (as I understand it ) is overall good. And the message has extras that could appeal to me. 

 

 

 

melvimbe

Your comment reminds me of my own some time back ‘ the evangelists, the frustrated and the 80% :-) 

 

 

Not intended to in anyway.  That’s pretty much a black and white way of looking at it.

 

 

 

Danny
G
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Very welcome announcement - too late for me.

 

I am sitting listening to a pair of stereo speakers with a separate sub powered by a 192kHz 24 bit DAC on a raspberry pi running piCorePlayer streaming from another raspberry pi with LMS installed on it holding my music collection and quite frankly it knocks the sonos kit into a cocked hat by comparison.

I would never have looked away from Sonos had this debacle not occurred -  but it did, and I did and now I have a much better solution for me. More pi’s are on order to power other zones.

 

These pi’s are so cheap and the dac’s cost very little too - incredibly cheap for the astounding quality of sound and the usability of the Squeezer app on Android is great too.

 

So there it is… too late for me

Sounds like a very cool solution for anyone that likes to tinker and dable.

Honestly its so easy to configure - have look at https://www.picoreplayer.org/main_getting_started.shtml

its built on a linux distribution of just 12Mb in size

I just Love Raspberry Pis, and have all sorts doing all sorts of Weather Data Logging, Solar Photovoltaic Output Logging etc. etc., Also being a Linux Geek I have been looking around.

I think it is worth considering this option which I am almost certainly going to move over to in the near future, or even get a nice mini amp with valves and drive that from the Pi. Endless opportunities to mess about.

 

Yes Max2Play https://www.max2play.com/en/  looks really good too.

Raspberry Pi’s are simply amazing bits of tech that can easily perform music and video streaming and hosting

G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Very welcome announcement - too late for me.

 

I am sitting listening to a pair of stereo speakers with a separate sub powered by a 192kHz 24 bit DAC on a raspberry pi running piCorePlayer streaming from another raspberry pi with LMS installed on it holding my music collection and quite frankly it knocks the sonos kit into a cocked hat by comparison.

I would never have looked away from Sonos had this debacle not occurred -  but it did, and I did and now I have a much better solution for me. More pi’s are on order to power other zones.

 

These pi’s are so cheap and the dac’s cost very little too - incredibly cheap for the astounding quality of sound and the usability of the Squeezer app on Android is great too.

 

So there it is… too late for me

And this is the point that some on the thread just don't seem to get .…. how many examples are needed to underline the credibility. 

I have also entered that new pool and whilst not quite as far to the deep end as you, I’m not far off. 

The announcement I can’t fully absorb yet but it sounds good overall. And either way I appreciate the effort to communicate status. Good or bad. And that is key …. customers can locked into a holding pattern with the right noises regularly made. If you don’t get the messages you will land elsewhere as you have.

 

 

I think you are right. What’s been missed is how many people have had their eyes opened to the possibilities out there for alternatives - some of which are very inexpensive and provide fabulous sound quality and usability

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