End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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J
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At the risk of being polically incorrect, the recycle/nonrecycle issue is completely irrelevant to me.I just want my 6  mixed “legacy” and “modern” Sonos products to continue to work together streaming music as Sonos said they would do when I spent a lot of money on them. If and/or when they fail to do that nothing less than a bare minimum 50% off tradeup might keep me with Sonos.

F
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Good item on the BBC news web site ...must read !!!

This will stop all this “PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE “

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51825089

melvimbe

Good item on the BBC news web site ...must read !!!

This will stop all this “PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE “

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51825089

 

That article lacks any real detail about such a plan.  Right to Repair is a bit different, and really isn’t tied to planned obsolesces.  It has more to do with preventing manufacturers from attempting to block 3rd parties from repairing their products by voiding warranties, etc.  Apple has been highlighted as one of the biggest offenders and have been accused of overcharging customers for repair services.

 

Anyway, it would be interesting to see this plan once it has some details.  Is “the government” going to fine or penalize companies in some way if the products they build don’t last a certain length of time before becoming obsolete?  How will they define obsolete?  Will companies be required to provide a certain time period of bundled in support?  Does that support mean they need to provide new features?    How will a company be required to support a feature that’s dependent on a different companies service, which they cannot control?  How will consumers feel about the cost increases to products in order to pay for these additional guarantees, and the likely slowdown in consumer spending, overall economy, and tech advancements?

Danny
K

I don’t know enough of the science behind the following statement that is therefore speculative to that extent - either we are going to have to take fairly drastic steps about how we treat the environment around us, or the environment is going to do it for us by shutting us down.

If this is more truth and less speculation, we probably don't want to be overanalysing what needs to be done, we may not have that luxury of time to indulge in that.

Notwithstanding the above, Sonos has certainly done its bit in elevating the awareness of this issue among those it touches, even if this is one of those unintended consequences that is captured in the law that relates to them.

U

Maybe it will force manufacturers to use sockets for RAM and ROM chips so old devices can be expanded to current standards without needing to install excessive quanities up front simply to future proof their products. Processing power and changing radio standards might be harder to deal with though. Combining long life cycle audio components with short life cycle computing and radio parts is always going to be a challenge. A modular approach that lets you upgrade audio and computing components on different timelines is the best way to maanage change without unneccesary stress.

Local music library with carefully constructed playlists - no shuffling!, Integration with Homeseer Automation, No touch screen devices, No streaming services, No Apple products ever
W
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What a ludicrous waste of time this thread has become. Is there going to be another two months of pointless speculation? See you in May.

Not just speculation… expressing general disgruntlement with Sonos’ decision. But then again, we know that they won’t change tack based on customer feedback, right? Because that’s never happened, especially not recently. :rolling_eyes:

User694694
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Good item on the BBC news web site ...must read !!!

This will stop all this “PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE “

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51825089

It sounds like there is a lot to flesh out, but I respect their commitment to making a positive change. It seems the UK is trying to do something about the throw away culture many companies have adopted. 

K

It sounds like there is a lot to flesh out, but I respect their commitment to making a positive change. It seems the UK is trying to do something about the throw away culture many companies have adopted. 

More the EU than the UK is what I gathered from the article.

A
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It sounds like there is a lot to flesh out, but I respect their commitment to making a positive change. It seems the UK is trying to do something about the throw away culture many companies have adopted. 

More the EU than the UK is what I gathered from the article.

Would be nice though wouldn’t it to go back to that moment in time when desktop’s were component up-gradable … and laptops …. where a component could be changed rather than than a unit. And our attitudes where to make things last the distance …. because we could.

And were things got repaired rather than junked. Our Tech Services Director for EMEA once described it to me as the ‘toaster repair syndrome’ …. there was a time when a toaster would be repaired. But that an axis is reached where the consumer preference was for new and indeed cost was easier to just replace. Every product reaches the toaster point. I wander if (as consumers) we may be changing this view. I know I am. I can afford to junk stuff and buy great new stuff but there is a much more compelling argument these days. 

Due to role I’ve been lucky enough to have had mad over spec’ed cars, laptops,... everything and always enjoyed getting the next latest and greatest. 

That said in the AV world I’ve always bought best and made it last the distance. My B&W speakers (801’s 805’s ASW800’s amps AX10i’s cost a fortune back in 96’-98’ but they still there and working! Not bad … they approximately 22 - 24 years old … same as the first daughter. The AX10i I am in fairness just about to replace with a Denon AVC 8500 and add some DA speakers …. but the B&W’s? There is still little to beat so why replace?

Same with white goods … buy a £1.2k Miele tumble dryer and you know you wouldn’t be spending on that for 15 years + … and that one of your kids will also get 5 years out of it.

And the laptop I use now (having been used to the best of everything in past) is an Aldi Medion 2010 model with upgraded memory, SSD, a keyboard and screen that’s been replaced a time or two at next to no cost … a power board that was replaced and still it does everything needed. I could afford to go get an HP X360 such as the one No.1 son showed me his company gave him. But there is something really nice about using things until the wheels fall off and then go buy the best money can buy and start again.

Same with TV’s to a lessor extent, high end models with stock fault that can be repaired cheaply … if you can get the data. Most folks don’t bother. 

Always surprised me that there was not a larger repair community with Sonos. Then I know little about the internal tech.

In fairness not that I ever had one fail … tell a lie. Ironically I had a Play 5 gen 1 fail (with some help from me and a cup of tea) about 2 years back. Sonos offered a first class (small cost) replacement unit. Impressive.It arrived 3 days later from Holland. Think it cost maybe £100 approx. Very worthwhile.

But almost all the tech products from Logitech Alert cams to Miele Revolution hoovers there are clever folk out there who can change caps, sort dry joints, re-flash firmwares, etc but never saw a great deal for Sonos in that area. Never had to look in fairness.

Sermon over! :-)  …. I like new were you can see a value for new but I love keeping old going until it simply cannot go any further.

I should add that until this years debacle (which still may see a happy ending) that I would most certainly have had Sonos on that list of ‘live forever’ and ‘add to’ products. And not to become as passive as some, in that sense there is an argument (and hope) that May’s announcement may yet preserve this happy status. 

Boy there’s a lot to expect come May :-)   tongue in cheek.

K

 

I should add that until this years debacle (which still may see a happy ending) that I would most certainly have had Sonos on that list of ‘live forever’ and ‘add to’ products. And not to become as passive as some, in that sense there is an argument (and hope) that May’s announcement may yet preserve this happy status. 

Boy there’s a lot to expect come May :-)   tongue in cheek.

Quite honestly, with all that is happening around all of humanity right now, what May will mean for Sonos has lost all importance for me at any rate; there are many other things we will be concerned with in May, though one obviously hopes that we can go back to worrying about Sonos.

But you make very good points - the only problem in going back to that kind of lifestyle, while sensible, will mean negative GDP growth for some years if all start using existing products to actual end of life, which is in turn going to mean belt tightening all around. But it may well be that the only sustainable way forward is in that manner.

A
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I should add that until this years debacle (which still may see a happy ending) that I would most certainly have had Sonos on that list of ‘live forever’ and ‘add to’ products. And not to become as passive as some, in that sense there is an argument (and hope) that May’s announcement may yet preserve this happy status. 

Boy there’s a lot to expect come May :-)   tongue in cheek.

Quite honestly, with all that is happening around all of humanity right now, what May will mean for Sonos has lost all importance for me at any rate; there are many other things we will be concerned with in May, though one obviously hopes that we can go back to worrying about Sonos.

But you make very good points - the only problem in going back to that kind of lifestyle, while sensible, will mean negative GDP growth for some years if all start using existing products to actual end of life, which is in turn going to mean belt tightening all around. But it may well be that the only sustainable way forward is in that manner.

Is double ironic Kumar in as much as … yes 100% agree your opening comment and I am in fact 5 days into self isolation due to a fairly rotten flu experience (not confirmed to be anything worse) than that. It could be the fact that when things are too large to comprehend that ‘the small stuff’ maybe keeps us a little sane.

Accept the GDP argument but it it does feel like even larger arguments are emerging around us every year that points to the GDP capitalist model as not being entirely sustainable. Or at least needing significant re-shaping.  And I speak as someone (like most on here I’m sure) who has benefited from that model for many years.

Buying the best, paying premium and enjoying the product much longer strikes me as the absolute best thing you can do to support that model. We just have to learn to quell our materialistic replacement motivations. So in real world terms, absolutely get the best … pay a little over the odds for it, but resist that urge to stuff it in a skip as soon as it fails for reasons that ‘could’ with a little motivation, be addressed. Strangely I was listening to a briefing by one of the senior Friends of the Earth folks a while back and he basically said the same …. it’s the replenishment cycle that needs addressing whether it be clothing, consuming electronics etc.

Prior to recent flu stuff I went to a recycling center near us take some old fencing away. Maybe it’s age but I could not believe the things being junked there. It makes you feel quite ill.

Anyway I feel I’m pulling a fair bit off topic here sorry. If we consider Sonos system in the same premium product category as Miele, B&W, Denon, Hugo Boss with long life cycles and the like then it’s relevant. And I feel it’s likely Sonos might would want to believe like their system would be regarded in that same premium classification.

K

 

Accept the GDP argument but it it does feel like even larger arguments are emerging around us every year that points to the GDP capitalist model as not being entirely sustainable. Or at least needing significant re-shaping. 

Since the thread topic isn't moving other than in circles, perhaps a digression may be permitted. The big problem is that there is no bridge from the existing model to one where durables are used to end of life, and non durables are not wasted. Because that model will mean - to use just one example - a huge drop in sales of new cars for some years. Just that one change for car buying will have immense cascading impacts on the level of economic activity globally and on everyone’s earnings and lifestyles. And that will lead to so much analysis paralysis around making that kind of a change, that the change will only be made if forced on us by the environment or something else external.

The way that the Covid threat is being handled everywhere in the world leaves one with little hope that we have learned to deal with such issues in a rational manner, so it is a little hard to be an optimist at this time.

End of digression.

K

You got to feel for Spence - he ended up setting the company stock price trends pointing in the wrong direction and then the tsunami arrived. At its present price of USD 8 or thereabouts, it probably is close to a compelling buy now for someone that can leverage its position. The coming days may see this become even more compelling if the price keeps falling…

Every treatise on intelligent investing says that when fear rules the markets, it is the time for canny buyers.

And if no one snaps it up in the coming days, there is a message in that for the user base.

A

I bought my Connect: Amp in 2017, 2 years later it’s “Legacy”?  I didn’t know I should have been super careful about the manufacture date.  

What happened to the “keep adding to your system each year” way of thinking? 

$455 after a 30% discount is a slap in the face to replace a perfectly functioning amp. 

Now there’s conflicting information as to whether or not “legacy” products will get software updates. 

This sucks.

I am in the same situation.  This is extremely disappointing. I have invested over the years on Sonos adding speakers and other components on a regular basis and have given systems to my 3 kids as special gifts. In my opinion, this company needs to make major corrections to protect its brand and “brand ambassadors” as we made this company grow through our recommendations . Perhaps new leadership is the answer. Potential new buyers beware.

K

IMO, till there is stability again in the world, Sonos needs to announce that it is calling off this event - if needed, Covid also gives them a good cover to do this. Nothing will change for all Sonos users in the visible medium term, and there will be one less anxiety for everyone touched by Sonos to deal with at a time everyone has enough on their plate.

Of course it is looking likely that this decision will be taken for Sonos by external events anyway.

jgatie

IMO, till there is stability again in the world, Sonos needs to announce that it is calling off this event - if needed, Covid also gives them a good cover to do this. Nothing will change for all Sonos users in the visible medium term, and there will be one less anxiety for everyone touched by Sonos to deal with at a time everyone has enough on their plate.

Of course it is looking likely that this decision will be taken for Sonos by external events anyway.

 

Good grief, are you seriously saying Sonos’ future business plans are having some effect on the anxiety levels felt during a viral pandemic? 

Get a grip Kumar, for you seem to be no longer in touch with reality.  I say this as one who has called you friend in the past; I’m seriously worried about you.

K

I’m seriously worried about you.

LOL. Don’t you have enough and far more important things to worry about? 

D
Userlevel 2
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I wake up everyday worried, worried that my neighbours finally breaks down my door with torches demanding me to lower down my Music, what a wonderful feeling 

A
Userlevel 6
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I wake up everyday worried, worried that my neighbours finally breaks down my door with torches demanding me to lower down my Music, what a wonderful feeling 

Quality response … my neighbour (many years ago) came round and did the exact same thing to find me lying flat on the floor listening to Out of Control - Chemical Brothers and Comfortably Numb on with bass high. 

He didn’t get it and left saying to my wife …. “he’s nuts he is” ….. My finest moment! :-)

Needless to say we actually get on rather well of course. 

It is quite a moment Daniel. Enjoy.

jgatie

I’m seriously worried about you.

LOL. Don’t you have enough and far more important things to worry about? 

 

One thing for sure, the world certainly has far more important things to worry about.  But I’m serious.  Anybody mentioning Sonos’ actions in the same stratosphere as the Coronavirus pandemic needs to check themselves.  They are too far down the rabbit hole.  Far too down. 

Think about it Kumar, you used to make fun of people who did this type of thing.  Now you are one.

K

@jgatie : quite honestly, it does not bother me that you think as you do, nor does it surprise me. And the point I made, which is different from the one you claim I am making,  is moot anyway, because the tsunami will wash away Sonos business plans as it will that of every other company, making all plans obsolete overnight, regardless of what you or I think.

The world needs a miracle, and I would be over the moon if the external environment allowed Sonos to continue with the little tsunami of their own making in May, but at this time, I am a pessimist.

jgatie

Sigh.

J

I don’t understand why there isn’t an option to have legacy products upgraded even at the customers cost? Surely there must be a way and it wouldn’t cost as much as, and create waste like the trade-up program. 

D
Userlevel 7
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You got to feel for Spence - he ended up setting the company stock price trends pointing in the wrong direction and then the tsunami arrived. At its present price of USD 8 or thereabouts, it probably is close to a compelling buy now for someone that can leverage its position. The coming days may see this become even more compelling if the price keeps falling…

Every treatise on intelligent investing says that when fear rules the markets, it is the time for canny buyers.

And if no one snaps it up in the coming days, there is a message in that for the user base.


Just checked the Sonos stock prices and saw that they had fallen to about USD 8

The Corona pandemic could not have come at a worse time for them.

 

Currently hugely unpopular due to the controversy of their tradeup program, stocks were alreadt dropping like at stone because of this, before the outbreak.

Now the stock is plummeting even more, and no one is currently thinking about buying sonos products (For some reason toilet paper and hand sanitizer 🙂 )

On top of that, the pandemic will almost certainly mean that there will be a recession in the economy and maybe even a new economic crisis like in 2008.

Such a crisis will cost lots of people their job, and unemployed people, looking to adjust their budget to their new financial income, are most likely to cut away “nice to have” and Sonos IS in the “Expensive, nice to have” category.

It could turn out to be the perfect storm for Sonos.

Maybe no one will get any new firmware upgrades, no matter if you have modern or legacy products….If the stock drops even more and no one is buying their products.

What a way to go from “Beloved products that people gladly pay a premium for” to “Controversial and overpriced product, that far to few people will buy, ending in bankrupcy“ in less than a year.

Ken_Griffiths

You got to feel for Spence - he ended up setting the company stock price trends pointing in the wrong direction and then the tsunami arrived. At its present price of USD 8 or thereabouts, it probably is close to a compelling buy now for someone that can leverage its position. The coming days may see this become even more compelling if the price keeps falling…

Every treatise on intelligent investing says that when fear rules the markets, it is the time for canny buyers.

And if no one snaps it up in the coming days, there is a message in that for the user base.


Just checked the Sonos stock prices and saw that they had fallen to about USD 8

The Corona pandemic could not have come at a worse time for them.

 

Currently hugely unpopular due to the controversy of their tradeup program, stocks were alreadt dropping like at stone because of this, before the outbreak.

Now the stock is plummeting even more, and no one is currently thinking about buying sonos products (For some reason toilet paper and hand sanitizer 🙂 )

On top of that, the pandemic will almost certainly mean that there will be a recession in the economy and maybe even a new economic crisis like in 2008.

Such a crisis will cost lots of people their job, and unemployed people, looking to adjust their budget to their new financial income, are most likely to cut away “nice to have” and Sonos IS in the “Expensive, nice to have” category.

It could turn out to be the perfect storm for Sonos.

Maybe no one will get any new firmware upgrades, no matter if you have modern or legacy products….If the stock drops even more and no one is buying their products.

What a way to go from “Beloved products that people gladly pay a premium for” to “Controversial and overpriced product, that far to few people will buy, ending in bankrupcy“ in less than a year.

I’ve always understood that Bankruptcy is only for 'individuals’ by the way and not applicable to a company, For those folk here who do like to invest however, often through their (online) broker these days, I think it’s really more a case of 'this’ (perhaps?) and knowing exactly when is the right time to buy the cat, which is normally far from being dead… I can see a few people making some wise prosperous decisions in the coming months as this flu-like virus eventually drifts into obscurity and normal service is resumed.

 

 

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