End of Software Support - Clarifications

Ryan

That’s actually quite encouraging at least in respect of streaming services (but maybe not whole system interoperability). If you are saying that the only thing that will stop you from keeping streaming services working indefinitely on our legacy units is that the hardware in those units won’t be able to handle changes to those streaming services, then fair enough. Very disappointing considering what we paid, but it is what it is, and I can’t see why the existing hardware shouldn’t be able to support existing streaming services for a very long time indeed. However, the message we have had to date is that you won’t be updating software apart from bug/security fixes. Can you kindly provide further clarification, please, of what you will be doing to cope with API type changes?

What specifically did they say?

Some solid positive data, thanks Ryan. Is a step forward

This is an interesting question as Sonos owns/controls the music API that the players use for streaming afaik. Google Play and Spotify that has cast is maybe different, but services in the Sonos controller all use SMAPI IIRC.

To be fair, Amazon, Spotify and other streaming services would also be interested in keeping the streming working, as not doing so, would certainly loose them some costumers that could no longer use the service.

With this in mind i think that even if Spotify changed their API to support new features, higher bitrate music and so on, would either :

1. Keep the old API open for legacy users
2. Put pressure on Sonos to implement the new API into the legacy products if at all possible

Neither Spotify, nor the legacy users would be interested in Spotify NOT working.

Only Sonos would, as they would hope some of the people that lost spotify would buy a new speaker from sonos to remedy the problem.

Ryan S

Ok, as I am losing the will to live and really need to get back to my normal life not watching these pages for the Holy Grail answer that obviously isn’t coming let me be clear on the “Worst Case Scenario” as I see it.

From May as I intend to keep using my Play5 my entire system will be in legacy, shortly thereafter it sounds like all streaming services will stop at some point, true this far?

Moving on then I will still be able to stream my own music library from my IMac across my entire legacy system, Yes/No?

I will be able to plug my £40, oops sorry £30 (Black Friday) Echo Dot into the line in on the 5 and stream across my entire legacy system, thus negating the need for any streaming service software support from Sonos, Yes/No?

the million dollar question as I see it, when will you stop supporting the legacy systems from within the app? No app control, no speakers streaming or otherwise

They looked into my issues and came up with a great solution for me. The main thing that did it for me was that it was quite clear that Everybody at Sonos from Reception to Boardroom is on this and sorting out solutions to our concerns.

You’ve got everyone curious now - I am hoping that you asked for a 70% off a couple of Port units, and for the old Connect units to NOT be bricked, and they said “Yes”  

Really?

I emailed on 23rd to ask to return 5.1 beam system and had no response. 

Today I had to call them and they said they would email return labels - nothing so far. 

In November they told me  could upgrade some products and get 30% off. 

I did this with a Play 5 and got the 30% credit. I bought the 5.1 beam setup and now with the fact that Sonos will no longer be a whole house audio company I wish to return the goods. Sonos *knew* in November what the plan was and mis-sold these items. I get my money back but an down a Play 5 - it went to the local recycle centre

They need to solve that problem or else I will go to the small claims court over this. 

To be honest mate I would expect everyone at Sonos from the guy that mows the lawns to the Janitor that cleans the bogs “is on it” as you put it. One would hope that  a corporate cluster**** of such immense proportions would focus the attention somewhat!!!!

Upgrade kit?  I’ve tried to read every post in this and a few other corollary topics regarding Legacy components and if I’ve missed something, I apologize in advance. 

From reading other threads, the issue of Legacy seems to come down to memory, not CPU processing power (regarding Legacy vs. Modern units).  We now know that Sonos slip-streamed more memory into old boxes up until about mid 2015 (that’s why you can have a mix of legacy and modern Connects and Connect AMPs, etc.).  Modern components have more memory. 

Ok, so give us a memory/firmware upgrade kit/path.  Peachtree Audio (an early marketing partner with Sonos for the ZP80) has a kit that upgrades their premium amplifiers to the new bluesound-like WiFi streaming and BT abilities for a very fair price if you own one of their excellent amps. 

Many of us have replaced batteries for the old Controller 100s with no difficulty even though it looked daunting initially - of course that’s before Sonos did actually brick them with a single update (yes John B. bricked!).  There were even several YouTube videos on how to easily take apart the unit and upgrade the parts inside.    

Offer the parts at Sonos’ COGS, and offer a fair replacement option for those who wish not to tinker but like us can’t justify the stupid extra expense for new AMPs and Ports while having to chuck our old gear in to the (already overflowing) e-waste stream. 

What? you say... this company is public... they have to depend on boosting sales at the expense of their brand and legacy customer good will?   They HAVE to remove the future liability costs of supporting 5+year old products?  Then perhaps that is really what this is all about.  Is Sonos only driven by Wallstreet’s demands for short-term quarterly growth and not long-term survival?   Short-term investors want short term results, but that kills a lot of long-term plans and ultimately kills great companies as well. 

Memory upgrade kits to keep us in the long-term loyalty/brand ambassadorship circles while we ponder your next wiz-bang products and services.  Just a thought ;-)

And to the wonderful support and sales staff at Sonos - You’re great people and all of us wish you the very best.  I sincerely hope this will turn out great for all concerned. 

Put your issues together in a factual bullet point email, tell them what you had hoped would happen and see what happens. They will call you back and work it through. That’s what I did and i was called back within a day. As I say ALL the Sonos management are working through this!

Unless you are able to solder soic or maybe even BGA, you wont be able to upgrade

Even if you could, you would need a way to flash the speaker with some firmware to be able to wake it up again.

This would be tricky, as they would need to know a way to reprogram the unit with the real serial.

To be honest, it sounds like something that only a very few users would be able to achieve.

Maybe they could make swap boards, where they took old Play 1 and amp boards, and remanufactured them with more RAM and ROM, and then you could buy a swap PCB, which they would then program and sell to the next person, but even that, would require people to disassemble the speaker and do some swapping, which would even make it impossible for some users.

Yep that's what you'd think and they are actually are doing it. So from me it's fair play to Sonos. Fifty pages back I was just as angry and disappointed. A quick email sent telling them my beef and what I wanted and  a truly great call back today and I'm now I'm fully backing Sonos. You wouldn't get that customer service anywhere else for me.

Thanks DK... it was a fun dream while it lasted.  Well lesson learned, (as others have voiced already here, on the other sites, and even “The TechGuy” on YouTube).  Don’t purchase premium-priced smart speakers - buy good speakers and separate out the smart bits that will eventually be e-waste.  At least you have part of your sound system left for the enviable availability of Ultra HD/Hi-Res Hi-Bit audio. 

If that is true it’s astonishing that they don’t clarify in public! This lack of communication is killing the company. 

I’m just gonna say that I took your advice @Wkelkel and they took great care of me and solved all my problems. It just took escalating it up up and up. Then, boom!

Of course that will be annoying but to be honest I don`t use the grouping that much. It will be worse if some streaming services stop working on the old system.

But I still feel positive about Sonos and think they deserve to know that not everyone is going to sell out and speak ill of Sonos forever after.

And I still remember when the updated app was introduced - the phrasing in the comments was pretty much the same as this time. Although admittedly this time the problem is more serious.

That's great. Are their solutions confidential or re either of you able to explain what they did or said to convert you?

I have to say, I am sceptical. If they can resolve issues that easily then they would be doing it for everyone. If they are not doing for everyone then that is ultimately poor customer service. The bottom line is I have:

1. Legacy products that will necessiate two separate systems or continual legacy system running.
2. The prospect that at an unspecified and completely out of my control date my legacy products will cease to be able to stream music which makes them worthless.
3. I will either have to junk my system or commit to upgrade e.g. buy everything I have already bought again at 70% of the price I have already paid and this could go on and on.

If there is an easy way out of this I’d like to hear it. What I am hearing is loads of technical “jury rigging” solutions which I could never hope to execute for myself and one poor Sonos guy trying to answer questions which essentially are unanswerable.

Looking back at your earlier posts I see you had used the trade up scheme and set a countdown on your legacy products to be bricked. I can only assume that you are happy because Sonos have cancelled your order and you devices are not destined for land fill, not quite yet anyway??

Spotify os no longer supported on 2011 iPhones. Forcing people to buy new ones. What do you think of that? I dont see iphone spotify subscribers whining like bunch of wuzzes that spotify is the devil. 

Not being able to update "old" stuff with latest 2020 updates should not be such a shock to anyone. 

Be fair people.

But even if you have a 2011 iphone on your wifi, you 2019 iphone WILL support Spotify right ?

Apple will not limit your device software based on what the oldest device on your apple account is able to run, right ?

Let’s try to keep the language clean everyone. I removed a couple posts above that had an inappropriate word in an image.

This is no bible study forum. Cmon