End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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B
Userlevel 4
Badge +7

If Sonos allow you to add new purchased speakers to a “legacy” system as part of their compromise then that at least is a workable solution for the time being. I don’t know how they plan to do this when new speakers will likely already be a much newer firmware version than what legacy players are running.

I think most of us are probably pretty happy with Sonos current feature set, although obviously API changes though very irregular will be a problem.

Of course it would be great if they worked out a solution in a split system of modern and legacy where you could still group your speakers, but I doubt this will happen unless a lot of pressure is put on Sonos.

Denon Heos is looking more attractive everyday. If it wasn’t for the fact Sonos are the only wireless speaker company with Apple Music built into their app I would probably start replacing my gear.

1 x Arc, 1 x Beam Gen 2, 1 x Amp, 2 x Sonos In Ceiling Speakers, 2 x Sub, 9 x Sonos Ones, 5 x Symfonisk Lamp
L
Userlevel 3

so heading for 2,800 comments here, almost all of which are saying we will never buy Sonos again…

81% of trustpilot reviews now 1 star, warning people not to buy...

share price continuing to slide…

and still no further word from Sonos… the silence is deafening.…

guess Sonos really is intent on treating all their loyal customers with contempt.

so sad. 

 

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

What am I missing? I thought Sonos did a U-turn last Thursday and said legacy products would NOT be bricked in the foreseeable future?

One thing to consider… while the Sonos stock is obviously declining, (it still has a bit to go before the $10 low of last August), we don’t want Sonos to fail because if they go out of business then all of our products will be automatically bricked :-( 

You would not be the only one who thought that. Large swathes or the tech press apparently came to the same conclusion. The CEO statement just said the same things as the original announcement wrapped in some fluff about being sorry that we’re all upset about it.

Unless Sonos reverse course your system is effectively dead at this point, it’s just a question of when. The whole house audio system is dead. Why would anyone continue to build, or start to build, a Sonos system knowing that at some point in the future some of their devices will be fractured off in to a legacy network?

T
Userlevel 3
Badge

I am so disenchanted with Sonos despite having used it since 2007 I am going to sell by Legacy (Still working) and Non Legacy products as soon as I can and set up a HiFiBerry system with Max2Play instead.

Grrrr!!!!!!

B
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

What am I missing? I thought Sonos did a U-turn last Thursday and said legacy products would NOT be bricked in the foreseeable future?

One thing to consider… while the Sonos stock is obviously declining, (it still has a bit to go before the $10 low of last August), we don’t want Sonos to fail because if they go out of business then all of our products will be automatically bricked :-( 

Not sure if Sonos going bust would be good or bad. If they did go under there would be a strong possibility that one of their competitors would buy them and integrate Sonos into their products.

C
Userlevel 2

Anyone would think that selling 1/3 of his shares early January that SONOS’s Chief Product Office Nicholas Millington knew this was going to go tits up on the share price.

https://techknowbits.com/2020/01/21/insider-selling-sonos-inc-nasdaqsono-insider-sells-36453-shares-of-stock-updated-updated.html

 

 

J

so heading for 2,800 comments here, almost all of which are saying we will never buy Sonos again…

81% of trustpilot reviews now 1 star, warning people not to buy...

share price continuing to slide…

and still no further word from Sonos… the silence is deafening.…

guess Sonos really is intent on treating all their loyal customers with contempt.

so sad. 

 

No word from Sonos?  Maybe they can’t see the point given that whatever they say they will be unjustly accused of being liars, incompetent, stupid, a disgrace etc etc

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

Stocks go up and down. I don’t think multiple stock price updates are worthwhile news each day, just because the shares are down a bit. The management team warned investors to expect a bumpy ride initially when they implemented this pre-planned updates policy. They knew it was controversial, and they knew it was going to be a hard sell.

I do wonder if the current CEO was fully aware how much of this business is built on product evangelism from enthusiastic owners though? It can easily work in reverse if those same people start belittling your product with as much venom now as it was previously enthusiasm. I suppose that’s the real danger for Sonos as a company.

I think the problem is that he thought that the sonos buyer has the same level of religiousness toward sonos, that apple evangelists have toward apple users.


The miscalculation is thinking that he could mistreat his “worshippers” just as much as apple, and still get away with it.

 

Now the church is in turmoil and the worshippers are leaving the church in droves, much to his surprise.

B
Userlevel 4
Badge +7

so heading for 2,800 comments here, almost all of which are saying we will never buy Sonos again…

81% of trustpilot reviews now 1 star, warning people not to buy...

share price continuing to slide…

and still no further word from Sonos… the silence is deafening.…

guess Sonos really is intent on treating all their loyal customers with contempt.

so sad. 

 

No word from Sonos?  Maybe they can’t see the point given that whatever they say they will be unjustly accused of being liars, incompetent, stupid, a disgrace etc etc

Unjustly? They are very justifiably being dragged over the coal due to the way they announced this. Many people have spent thousands on these systems and have just had everything turned on its head.

It’s nothing personal against the staff on this forum or any other lower level staff. It’s the big guys that are responsible for this mess.

1 x Arc, 1 x Beam Gen 2, 1 x Amp, 2 x Sonos In Ceiling Speakers, 2 x Sub, 9 x Sonos Ones, 5 x Symfonisk Lamp
J

What am I missing? I thought Sonos did a U-turn last Thursday and said legacy products would NOT be bricked in the foreseeable future?

One thing to consider… while the Sonos stock is obviously declining, (it still has a bit to go before the $10 low of last August), we don’t want Sonos to fail because if they go out of business then all of our products will be automatically bricked :-( 

Not sure if Sonos going bust would be good or bad. If they did go under there would be a strong possibility that one of their competitors would buy them and integrate Sonos into their products.

What you are missing is that they never said that speakers were going to be ‘bricked’.  They always said that updates would cease but the speakers would continue to function.  This thread has set new standards in misunderstanding and misinformation among the user base, and not in a good way.

P
Userlevel 2
Badge

Not expecting much out of sonos before this:

 

Sonos Announces Date for First Quarter 2020 Financial Results and Conference Call

 

Jan 15, 2020

SANTA BARBARA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Sonos, Inc. (Nasdaq: SONO) today announced that after market close on Wednesday, February 5, 2020, the company will report financial results for the first quarter ended December 28, 2019 in a letter to shareholders. The letter will be made available on the investor relations section of its website at https://investors.sonos.com/reports-and-filings/default.aspx#section=earningsreports.

The company will host a conference call and Q&A to discuss the results on the same day at 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time. A live webcast and replay of the conference call and Q&A will be accessible at https://investors.sonos.com/news-and-events/default.aspx. The conference call may also be accessed toll free by dialing (833) 236-2748, with conference ID 9666837. Participants outside the U.S. can access the call by dialing (647) 689-4173, with the same conference ID.

 

 

Edit: the previous call https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2019/11/20/sonos-inc-sono-q4-2019-earnings-call-transcript.aspx

J

so heading for 2,800 comments here, almost all of which are saying we will never buy Sonos again…

81% of trustpilot reviews now 1 star, warning people not to buy...

share price continuing to slide…

and still no further word from Sonos… the silence is deafening.…

guess Sonos really is intent on treating all their loyal customers with contempt.

so sad. 

 

No word from Sonos?  Maybe they can’t see the point given that whatever they say they will be unjustly accused of being liars, incompetent, stupid, a disgrace etc etc

Unjustly? They are very justifiably being dragged over the coal due to the way they announced this. Many people have spent thousands on these systems and have just had everything turned on its head.

It’s nothing personal against the staff on this forum or any other lower level staff. It’s the big guys that are responsible for this mess.

And the many people can continue to use their systems.  Probably for many years without any significant degradation, although I admit that is not guaranteed.  But there has been so much misinterpretation of the impact, so much reluctance to believe that this is fundamentally a technical issue not just an attempted money grab, that they probably think there is nothing more worth saying at the moment.  If they change their mind (I don’t think they will or can) then it is worth saying so.  If not, what is the point of repeating the same arguments?

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

What you are missing is that they never said that speakers were going to be ‘bricked’.  They always said that updates would cease but the speakers would continue to function.  This thread has set new standards in misunderstanding and misinformation among the user base, and not in a good way.

Question, John. After this policy takes effect, will my whole house audio system still be a whole house system? The value of Sonos has always been as a system, not the individual units. Don’t take my word for it, have a look at the marketing messages al over their website.  

’Bricking’ is a euphemism. Originally it was reserved for doing permanent, irreversible damage to some technology (you know, like Sonos do if you accept their kind ‘trade up’ offer). These days plenty of things get referred to as being ‘bricked’ when the damage is bit that immediate or permanent. 

J

What you are missing is that they never said that speakers were going to be ‘bricked’.  They always said that updates would cease but the speakers would continue to function.  This thread has set new standards in misunderstanding and misinformation among the user base, and not in a good way.

Question, John. After this policy takes effect, will my whole house audio system still be a whole house system? The value of Sonos has always been as a system, not the individual units. Don’t take my word for it, have a look at the marketing messages al over their website.  

’Bricking’ is a euphemism. Originally it was reserved for doing permanent, irreversible damage to some technology (you know, like Sonos do if you accept their kind ‘trade up’ offer). These days plenty of things get referred to as being ‘bricked’ when the damage is bit that immediate or permanent. 

Not in my world.  ‘Bricked’ means ‘made as much use as a brick’.  Anyway, I was addressing a particular poster who also referred to a ‘U-turn’, so that particular person clearly thought something major had changed, and it hadn’t.

And your comment is a bit rich from someone who has used ‘end of life’ in their handle.

And the answer to ‘whole home’.  Yes, if you stay in legacy mode.  Don’t think we know yet exactly what it will look like if the system is ‘mixed’.  I wasn’t addressing that point and what does my view matter anyway?

W
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

What you are missing is that they never said that speakers were going to be ‘bricked’.  They always said that updates would cease but the speakers would continue to function.  This thread has set new standards in misunderstanding and misinformation among the user base, and not in a good way.

Question, John. After this policy takes effect, will my whole house audio system still be a whole house system? The value of Sonos has always been as a system, not the individual units. Don’t take my word for it, have a look at the marketing messages al over their website.  

’Bricking’ is a euphemism. Originally it was reserved for doing permanent, irreversible damage to some technology (you know, like Sonos do if you accept their kind ‘trade up’ offer). These days plenty of things get referred to as being ‘bricked’ when the damage is bit that immediate or permanent. 

Not in my world.  ‘Bricked’ means ‘made as much use as a brick’.  Anyway, I was addressing a particular poster who also referred to a ‘U-turn’, so that particular person clearly thought something major had changed, and it hadn’t.

Bricks are useful - I can build a house with them! Sonos speakers that won’t group into zones or whole house with other speakers, or perhaps won’t play certain services due to API changes, are less useful - because they are landfill. We’re not at that stage yet, of course, I realise that, and MOST others do… but would I buy a new Sonos product right now? Not a chance.

J

What you are missing is that they never said that speakers were going to be ‘bricked’.  They always said that updates would cease but the speakers would continue to function.  This thread has set new standards in misunderstanding and misinformation among the user base, and not in a good way.

Question, John. After this policy takes effect, will my whole house audio system still be a whole house system? The value of Sonos has always been as a system, not the individual units. Don’t take my word for it, have a look at the marketing messages al over their website.  

’Bricking’ is a euphemism. Originally it was reserved for doing permanent, irreversible damage to some technology (you know, like Sonos do if you accept their kind ‘trade up’ offer). These days plenty of things get referred to as being ‘bricked’ when the damage is bit that immediate or permanent. 

Not in my world.  ‘Bricked’ means ‘made as much use as a brick’.  Anyway, I was addressing a particular poster who also referred to a ‘U-turn’, so that particular person clearly thought something major had changed, and it hadn’t.

Bricks are useful - I can build a house with them! Sonos speakers that won’t group into zones or whole house with other speakers, or perhaps won’t play certain services due to API changes, are less useful - because they are landfill. We’re not at that stage yet, of course, I realise that, and MOST others do… but would I buy a new Sonos product right now? Not a chance.

I respect and understand that view.  But given that I would be very confident of at least 10 years service out of a speaker bought tomorrow - with the exception of Playbar or Playbase probably - I would unhesitatingly buy Sonos speakers at this time.  

I realise of course that people’s situations differ.

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

And the answer to ‘whole home’.  Yes, if you stay in legacy mode.  Don’t think we know yet exactly what it will look like if the system is ‘mixed’.  I wasn’t addressing that point and what does my view matter anyway?

At which point your whole system is a dead system walking, isn’t it? After all, Sonos say that there is no capability in the existing system for further changes. So you have a 100% legacy system which will atrophy over time, or (what they’re probably hoping for) it will start to die, then you’ll decide to cut the older units loose so that the newer ones can receive fixes.

J

And the answer to ‘whole home’.  Yes, if you stay in legacy mode.  Don’t think we know yet exactly what it will look like if the system is ‘mixed’.  I wasn’t addressing that point and what does my view matter anyway?

At which point your whole system is a dead system walking, isn’t it? After all, Sonos say that there is no capability in the existing system for further changes. So you have a 100% legacy system which will atrophy over time, or (what they’re probably hoping for) it will start to die, then you’ll decide to cut the older units loose so that the newer ones can receive fixes.

I think we’ll have to see.  That is probably what is going to happen for some users, and we don’t really know whether that process will start in 6 months or be barely noticeable for years.  For all the anger, I think people should wait and see.  I don’t know if Sonos are ‘hoping’ for that.  They may well be expecting it - I have no idea.

R
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

If Google can create a small dongle that can do video streams and multi-room audio for only £30; Why can’t Sonos create a dongle that plugs into the network socket of these “legacy” speakers to handle the processing and pass through a simple music stream……..The answer is they could, they just think they can make more money sending them to landfill.

B
Userlevel 4
Badge +7

What you are missing is that they never said that speakers were going to be ‘bricked’.  They always said that updates would cease but the speakers would continue to function.  This thread has set new standards in misunderstanding and misinformation among the user base, and not in a good way.

Question, John. After this policy takes effect, will my whole house audio system still be a whole house system? The value of Sonos has always been as a system, not the individual units. Don’t take my word for it, have a look at the marketing messages al over their website.  

’Bricking’ is a euphemism. Originally it was reserved for doing permanent, irreversible damage to some technology (you know, like Sonos do if you accept their kind ‘trade up’ offer). These days plenty of things get referred to as being ‘bricked’ when the damage is bit that immediate or permanent. 

Not in my world.  ‘Bricked’ means ‘made as much use as a brick’.  Anyway, I was addressing a particular poster who also referred to a ‘U-turn’, so that particular person clearly thought something major had changed, and it hadn’t.

Bricks are useful - I can build a house with them! Sonos speakers that won’t group into zones or whole house with other speakers, or perhaps won’t play certain services due to API changes, are less useful - because they are landfill. We’re not at that stage yet, of course, I realise that, and MOST others do… but would I buy a new Sonos product right now? Not a chance.

I respect that view.  But given that I would be very confident of at least 10 years service out of a speaker bought tomorrow - with the exception of Playbar or Playbase probably - I would unhesitatingly buy Sonos speakers at this time.  

Sonos is one of the only if not the only audio company that up until it’s latest products has never supported an open standard like Bluetooth. They have always told everyone the benefits of Sonosnet over Bluetooth. They never told anyone the risks of them virtually rendering your speakers useless if they stop supporting them. The newer speakers are somewhat better with Airplay 2 Support at least for apple devices.

You can say all this is common knowledge but people have a right to believe audio equipment will keep working until the hardware dies as this is how it’s always been for audio equipment in the past. I can play music over bluetooth to a cheap receiver or soundbar from a decade ago and know I will be able to for as long as bluetooth is around regardless of new versions of bluetooth coming out.

Sonos has essentially sold everyone on the benefits of their own proprietary system and people paid good money for that system over Bluetooth alternatives. Now Sonos have decided to turn that system on it’s head and make it a huge disadvantage.

Imagine if for example when Intel & Co came up with USB and encouraged people away from the old serial and parallel ports, that suddenly by releasing USB 2 and later USB 3 they just decided to make everything incompatible with anyone using the previous USB version? No-one with USB 1 obviously expects higher speeds, but they do expect their devices to still be able to work at the speed they bought it for. This same analogy has been successful with Apple Airplay, Bluetooth, Blu Ray to DVD etc. Which is why Sonos refusing to do the same for their loyal customer’s is very hard to take.

People have a right to be pissed off.

1 x Arc, 1 x Beam Gen 2, 1 x Amp, 2 x Sonos In Ceiling Speakers, 2 x Sub, 9 x Sonos Ones, 5 x Symfonisk Lamp
8
Userlevel 2

I think I’m looking for 2 things from Sonos.

 

  1. Decent offer, solution & support for those who have legacy kit
  2. A statement on “modern” kit.  Is it likely that at some point that my Play:1’s (for example) will become legacy? is all the current Sonos kit at risk of becoming legacy within then next 10 years? - or are we done now?    or are the Play:1’s next?

 

When I look at the memory/storage of the Gen1 Play: 5, I can see that is significantly lower that then Gen2, so maybe you have a case? - although I would still argue, you should have designed the ability to upgrade & future proof all your kit from the start or provide a compelling offer for legacy users to upgrade.

 

Without an answer to #2, I definitely won’t be buying any more Sonos kit.  And am in the process of upgrading my house, so I was on the lookout more Sonos. But that’s on hold until I get some clarity on future support.

N
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

“Our business model is simple — we sell products which people pay for once, and we make them better over time with software updates.”

 

This shows you how full of **** this CEO is. The quote is from this year when he testified at a Congressional hearing about bigger companies having a monopoly. 

 

He must have known about the announcement at the time. It's going to be really difficult for me to trust this company again with it's current leadership. 

#BoycottSonos
J
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

This thread was created to provide ‘clarification’ yet little is forthcoming. Many questions are being posed, some directly, others less so and mentioned by contributors only within posts as part of subsidiary issues. I have posed several questions myself which people have presumably chosen to disregard as being of little relevance to their own personal circumstances. 

 

The fact is very few of our concerns are being addressed and in the meantime many questions are being lost in the avalanche of posts amidst all the ‘rage’. Trouble at the moment is many of the questions are, of necessity, hypothetical, if Sonos does this will I be able to do that.  I wonder if anyone at Sonos is identifying and collating these questions, I would hope so but if not maybe that is a job for the forum community itself. A table of questions that can be added to would maybe be useful.

 

What’s the old expression - “Act in haste, repent at leisure”. People need to think things through before rushing, we’ve already witnessed a lot of trade-up remorse as people realise that it probably wasn’t the ideal option for them to have taken.

 

For now Sonos should be renamed “SonoWhat”!

A

And the answer to ‘whole home’.  Yes, if you stay in legacy mode.  Don’t think we know yet exactly what it will look like if the system is ‘mixed’.  I wasn’t addressing that point and what does my view matter anyway?

At which point your whole system is a dead system walking, isn’t it? After all, Sonos say that there is no capability in the existing system for further changes. So you have a 100% legacy system which will atrophy over time, or (what they’re probably hoping for) it will start to die, then you’ll decide to cut the older units loose so that the newer ones can receive fixes.

If Sonos are only maintaining one legacy build, then it’s more that it won’t be getting new facilities, rather than all changes. Up until now they’ve been running on a unified code base, which is what has, arguably, caused the problem. For a legacy release, there is nothing to stop them stripping out all the useless code that the old kit can’t support (e.g. voice), thereby releasing space for things that do matter - e.g. bug fixes and future changes to streaming services. Obviously, they may choose not to do this….

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +8


From what i have seen, the electronics inside the IKEA Symfonisk is exactly the same as inside the Play 1, with the only difference being that the Symfonisk has 256Mbyte instead of 64Mbyte

The Symfonisk is essentially identical to a play 1 inside, apparently.

 

Yes, the Symfonisk is the same PCB but with added ram and rom

Should be an easy retrofit when the Play 1 is obsoleted in a couple of years….If they have not changed the PCB in the Symfonisk or stopped selling it.

If you think about a Symfonisk is more functional than a play 1.. when Sonos brick your Symfonisk in a few years you can at least continue to use it as a shelf. 

You do know that they put a kill switch on the rear bracket don’t you?  When Spence approves a particular software update, it falls off the wall…  Though he may not be around to approve it.

But who wants the aesthetically challenged IKEA products?

This is the problem I am having in researching a alternative to SONOS.  I like the way my products look.  Most of what I am seeing and either just plain ugly or they are too much over the top for my taste.  I like the simplicity of the design I have now.  The Amazon Echos come closest in that department in my opinion.  But they don’t have a equivalent to a “sonos connect” right?


To maybe answer your question RE: Sonos Connect Amazon equivalent - I’m looking at the Echo Link Amp and Echo Link at the moment among many other options (check them out on Amazon if you haven’t seen), and trying to figure out my going forward strategy - as I’m done with Sonos. 

I am doing a backyard, California room renovation and was going to go with Moves for around pool and Amps and a Playbar, Sub for TV etc, but of course I’ve discarded that idea.  Looking at the Bose 51 hard wired outdoor speakers now (instead of Moves), and trying to decide how to get rid of Sonos completely for the rest of the project . . .

. . . even thinking about a hardwired AV receiver now . . .

. . . it’s crazy like someone said above.  Sonos was a default no question purchase before this fiasco for me.  I wouldn’t even consider price or competitively shop - that’s how well the previous leaders built the Sonos brand!  And I’ve gone from that to “never again” in 1 week - and I’m telling everyone I brought over to Sonos to get out of their ecosystem because they can change your functionality (or shut you down) on a whim (based upon what they see as to their financial benefit) - and they are testing those whims now. 

I am convinced they may go out of business because of this brand destruction - and all my speakers will eventually die.  In my 52 years of life I cannot think of any company that I have turned against so quickly . . . it’s amazing really . . . it would be hard to do worse in terms of destroying a brand if one really, really (did I say really) tried.  I laugh and imagine the leaders at Sonos sitting around the boardroom table (like in a Dilbert cartoon) and saying - “hey, let’s destroy this company and our brand - who has the best idea about how we can do it?”

The sad thing is, the employees that built this (and us the customers) will be the ones that suffer.  The leaders will profit when someone swoops in and buys them to pick-up the pieces after the stock drops to 5 . . .

I think the miscalculation that Sonos and Patrick made was that they did not understand the intelligence of their average user.  People agreed to pay a Sonos premium because they understood the value in backwards compatibility, a whole house system (ie: we do not want segregated legacy and new systems), etc (ie: ROI).  And also, to pay the premium, their customers naturally have to be somewhat successful in general and have substantial disposable income.  People that fit that description are not dumb and can read through corporate BS when they see it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R8NCXGTMM7E13?

Quite a few limitations re: Echo Link.

 

For my part, I’ve read post after post with sentiments akin to “why would anyone buy Sonos now?” that while not unfounded by any means, often miss the greater point… if the next thought is to look toward other companies with similar capabilities then, basically, the moral of this Sonos story is not being heard.

Everyone should take pause and quickly realize that this will be repeated, with every other manufacturer of “smart audio” as it were, and likely on far shorter product cycles than we’re witnessing with Sonos. Be very mindful if you begin looking for alternatives, slow down and consider what it is you’re doing and why. If speaker wire doesn’t factor into your replacement plans then take a step back. This is an industry problem, not just a Sonos problem.

But that’s the point. Now the illusion of Sonos has shattered, people are looking eslewhere, some for the first time. But this time, they’re looking at far cheaper alternatives with the knowledge that there is a limit of between 5 to 10 years. 500 on a Sonos amp that may become legacy in 5 to 10 years or 200 on a cheaper, good enough product. Multiply that by 5, 10 or 20 products and the savings start to mount up. Now that Sonos have dropped a bomb onto their brand, who knows if it will survive in the short to medium term. It will depend on that detailed unambiguous response. To not have an action plan in place before announcing legacy items, is for me a sackable offence and the CEO should take a long look in the mirror. Sonos purchases have probably dried up waiting for clarity. That alone will hit them hard. So as every week goes by without an answer that satifies its customers/ambassadors, the bigger the hit to their bottom line. CEOs get sacked for that.

Act in haste, repent at leisure.
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