End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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J

Really disappointed with Sonos.  having acquired 8 Play Ones i was just about to acquire the TV Soundbar and bass unit but now thinking again unless Sonos can guarantee that they can be used for many years to come..  Thinking about going back to wired solutions.  I don’t want speakers with “Voice”.    Big brother is ver present and i don’t want anything that is a real point of weakness.   Sonos please listen to the many of us who think you have  great product

 

 

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

What am I missing? I thought Sonos did a U-turn last Thursday and said legacy products would NOT be bricked in the foreseeable future?

One thing to consider… while the Sonos stock is obviously declining, (it still has a bit to go before the $10 low of last August), we don’t want Sonos to fail because if they go out of business then all of our products will be automatically bricked :-( 

Not sure if Sonos going bust would be good or bad. If they did go under there would be a strong possibility that one of their competitors would buy them and integrate Sonos into their products.

What you are missing is that they never said that speakers were going to be ‘bricked’.  They always said that updates would cease but the speakers would continue to function.  This thread has set new standards in misunderstanding and misinformation among the user base, and not in a good way.

Absolute rubbish, there is no misunderstanding at all

R
Userlevel 3

would be good if Sonos products could be reverted to older operating systems. My concern is loosing functionality I have now by a update and not being able to go back. Sort of like the dock becoming useless due to an update even though it worked on the prior version

P
Userlevel 2
Badge

What an absolute disaster.  I’m scared to death to update my Sonos system.  I bought Sonos - and paid more money than other solutions - simply because of the clean design, simplicity of use, and acceptable sound quality.   Now you are threatening to brick my system?  But not really, but kinda?  So much for simplicity and sound quality!

It’s amazing how much goodwill you have destroyed with me over this fiasco.  Just the fact that some idiots in your company even tried to get away with this is mind-boggling.  The CEO email was simply CYA to prevent more damage.  Just really unbelievable how companies will try to screw you any way they can.

I am moving into a new home soon, and had no issues with expanding my Sonos system to accommodate.  Now I’m completely confused and really scared to invest any more money into a company that thinks this way, just out of control greed.  So now I will be exploring other options.

A

@MIBUK 

 To not have an action plan in place before announcing legacy items

They have a plan in place - it’s spelt out in their SEC submission. They intend to weather the storm of customer complaints and carry on as they intended. They’ve made a slight concession over bug fixes and services, but that could have been part of the plan.

There has been a lot of fire and fury on these two threads (justified, IMHO) but it’s already dying down - if they wait another few days then they’ll persuade themselves that the worst is over, and that their loss is likely to be limited to about 10k customers who, having large systems already, probably aren’t spending that much at the moment. Presumably, they feel that ‘trendy’ features like voice and HiRes will win them many more customers in the future.

They may even offer a better trade in deal or some other concession, at which point people may feel that they’ve ‘won’ and that ‘Sonos have listened’, so people forget that they’ve still been shafted.

I very much hope that I’m  wrong, but I’m not holding my breath...

A

What an absolute disaster.  I’m scared to death to update my Sonos system.  

So don’t do it - turn off all the auto updates on the controllers and, if you ccan, block outgoing traffic on port 4444 on your router.

Take back control….

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

I’ve vented my spleen in the previous thread and earlier in this one a good few times.

Not one to over react (as pi**ed off as everyone else that said) but this really has prompted me to look at alternatives moving forward.

Roon with Tidal is quite amazing … been road testing it after reading advice of others on this thread, with my Sonos boxes the last 24 hrs. I expected not so much but see a lot to like!

It’s especially good for those of us with ceiling (or external) speakers. 

It’s a bit hard get your head round at first …. DAC’s, Amps and stuff that sounds like that. but in reality it’s simple and sounds amazing.

I installed it on my tired old i3 laptop and had it search for my NAS and Sonos, Chromecasts, Nvidia Shield and TV’s and it found the lot and set them up without a hitch. Also a very active and enthusiastic support community they have as well.

I’d prefer a compelling solution from Sonos that pi**ed off as we all maybe, at least solves the core issue if not brings back the love! But this alternative is very interesting. Not just an emotional response.

Going forward, if I do invest again in Sonos it 100% will not be with ‘speaker in box’ solutions like Play models …. Sonos Amp, maybe. But any Sonos product has to be with external speakers and if sensible external amplification and DAC’s etc …. at least the damage is limited in that scenario … with Sonos or any other fly by night. …. keep your small format amp, expensive speakers and loose the clever network box. Not ideal but way way cheaper and less damaging.

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +8

@MIBUK

 To not have an action plan in place before announcing legacy items

They have a plan in place - it’s spelt out in their SEC submission. They intend to weather the storm of customer complaints and carry on as they intended. They’ve made a slight concession over bug fixes and services, but that could have been part of the plan.

There has been a lot of fire and fury on these two threads (justified, IMHO) but it’s already dying down - if they wait another few days then they’ll persuade themselves that the worst is over, and that their loss is likely to be limited to about 10k customers who, having large systems already, probably aren’t spending that much at the moment. Presumably, they feel that ‘trendy’ features like voice and HiRes will win them many more customers in the future.

They may even offer a better trade in deal or some other concession, at which point people may feel that they’ve ‘won’ and that ‘Sonos have listened’, so people forget that they’ve still been shafted.

I very much hope that I’m  wrong, but I’m not holding my breath...

Well, you can call it a plan. Maybe a plan A. I’ve seen far better plans. Do they have a plan B? They issue an announcement that suggested your legacy items would no longer work in tandem with newer ones. Or if they were working with each other, then newer products wouldn’t get updates. It seems that the CEO has said that will not be the case, although his statement was still ambiguous.

37% of new product sales are from current owners who also act as brand ambassadors helping sales through word of mouth. Have they done the calculations on word of mouth sales? They sell products at premium prices when competitors are selling more in a month than they do in a year at a far lower cost. With the illusion of high end gear not being guaranteed for more tan 5 to 10 years, why would anybody pay premium? 

Unless they have a unique product or new features that will make customers salivate, then I suspect they have no plan B. Even with unique offerings, the vast majority just want to stream music and radio. They don’t want/need alexa/google built in. They don’t even support Dolby Atmos and other more common technologies ie. 24 bit. So for the even more demanding customers, they’re not going to help turn around the company imho.

I want Sonos to get through this, but they must resolve these issues that have been repeated time & time again. A friend of mine I have been gently nudging to buy Sonos told me yesterday that he was looking to get a couple. I told him what happened and now he will wait like many others. 

Their discount offer to upgrade is too small and considering their competitors are offering products cheaper than the post-discount Sonos pricing, I suspect many won’t upgrade. They have now put themselves into a corner and the question will be, will they take the pre-january customer focus approach or now that they’re a public listed company, bet on black and hope it doesn’t land on red. The Board members won’t lose much if they get this wrong. But millions of customers and their staff will suffer financial losses.

The next move will determine their survival imho. Because even customers who have newer products or plan to buy newer ones, they will be waiting on Sonos’s next move before they decide what step to take next. I bet their accredited retailers are very angry as well and are losing sales. Ride the storm? It’s a category 2 hurricane level at the moment imho.

 

Act in haste, repent at leisure.
A
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

What an absolute disaster.  I’m scared to death to update my Sonos system.  

So don’t do it - turn off all the auto updates on the controllers and, if you ccan, block outgoing traffic on port 4444 on your router.

Take back control….

How do you switch off updates? Long time Sonos user but not sure how you do that on Win 10 app? Or does it need be on Android?

R
Userlevel 3

Has anyone tried to set up two Sonos nets to separate legacy and modern products. Is there any interference between the two nets? Lastly I wonder if the port line out on the modern net could be used to provide the input on the legacy net and if the two nets would still be in sync. If they are in sync then this solves the issue of compatibility although it would be more complex with two routers and two boosts and 2 controllers on the separate networks

A

@MIBUK

 To not have an action plan in place before announcing legacy items

They have a plan in place - it’s spelt out in their SEC submission. They intend to weather the storm of customer complaints and carry on as they intended. They’ve made a slight concession over bug fixes and services, but that could have been part of the plan.

There has been a lot of fire and fury on these two threads (justified, IMHO) but it’s already dying down - if they wait another few days then they’ll persuade themselves that the worst is over, and that their loss is likely to be limited to about 10k customers who, having large systems already, probably aren’t spending that much at the moment. Presumably, they feel that ‘trendy’ features like voice and HiRes will win them many more customers in the future.

They may even offer a better trade in deal or some other concession, at which point people may feel that they’ve ‘won’ and that ‘Sonos have listened’, so people forget that they’ve still been shafted.

I very much hope that I’m  wrong, but I’m not holding my breath...

Well, you can call it a plan. Maybe a plan A. I’ve seen far better plans.

I didn’t say that I thought that it was a good plan, just that they appear to have one :frowning2:

W
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

The next move will determine their survival imho. Because even customers who have newer products or plan to buy newer ones, they will be waiting on Sonos’s next move before they decide what step to take next. I bet their accredited retailers are very angry as well and are losing sales. Ride the storm? It’s a category 2 hurricane level at the moment imho.

 

They also (IMHO) need to make an absolute commitment to what they’re calling “current” modern units because the very use of the word “current” implies they will pull this same thing again at some point. 

A

What an absolute disaster.  I’m scared to death to update my Sonos system.  

So don’t do it - turn off all the auto updates on the controllers and, if you ccan, block outgoing traffic on port 4444 on your router.

Take back control….

How do you switch off updates? Long time Sonos user but not sure how you do that on Win 10 app? Or does it need be on Android?

You used to be able to do it on the PC controller, but it looks like they’ve removed it from the later versions…. On the android controller, it’s under Settings/System/System Updates - there’s a toggle switch for ‘Update Automatically’. You probably also need to stop the apps themselves updating (android and any Apple ones) 

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

You used to be able to do it on the PC controller, but it looks like they’ve removed it from the later versions…. On the android controller, it’s under Settings/System/System Updates - there’s a toggle switch for ‘Update Automatically’. You probably also need to stop the apps themselves updating (android and any Apple ones) 

Which raises some interesting questions about how Sonos’ ‘just stop updating and stay legacy’ idea will work. I don’t think it’s possible to stop one individual app updating automatically on iOS, it’s all manual or all automatic.

There have been plenty of times in the past when I’ve gone to use the Sonos app and it’s said ‘no Sonos for you until you let me update*’, which I presume is when the iOS app has gotten ahead of the Sonos software.
So is that going to change now? 

* = This is very annoying and further evidence that Sonos have no idea how to create standard interfaces that are compatible across software versions.

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +8

@MIBUK

 To not have an action plan in place before announcing legacy items

They have a plan in place - it’s spelt out in their SEC submission. They intend to weather the storm of customer complaints and carry on as they intended. They’ve made a slight concession over bug fixes and services, but that could have been part of the plan.

There has been a lot of fire and fury on these two threads (justified, IMHO) but it’s already dying down - if they wait another few days then they’ll persuade themselves that the worst is over, and that their loss is likely to be limited to about 10k customers who, having large systems already, probably aren’t spending that much at the moment. Presumably, they feel that ‘trendy’ features like voice and HiRes will win them many more customers in the future.

They may even offer a better trade in deal or some other concession, at which point people may feel that they’ve ‘won’ and that ‘Sonos have listened’, so people forget that they’ve still been shafted.

I very much hope that I’m  wrong, but I’m not holding my breath...

Well, you can call it a plan. Maybe a plan A. I’ve seen far better plans.

I didn’t say that I thought that it was a good plan, just that they appear to have one :frowning2:

I know 🙂, but they seem to think it was a good one or the best they were prepared to do. Anyway, we’ll see if their plans change. If they don’t, then I will assume what you stated….is that they expect to ride out the storm. Imho, they will be proven wrong if that’s the road they take. There’s still a window of opportunity to recover this.

Act in haste, repent at leisure.
G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Discussion  about this will die down obviously, but people ultimately make most decisions mostly based on emotions, and when you upset your customers that feeling doesn’t go away easily. Just because people stop or reduce talking about something doesn’t mean they’re okay with it.

R
Userlevel 4
Badge

I work in the software/IT industry. I can write code. With that out of the way!


I see no reason that the firmware in “modern” units which have loads of memory and storage could handle two versions of the protocol: modern and legacy. If a legacy unit is added to any group then all modern units would fall back to legacy protocol (and only support legacy functions and capabilities). With all modern units obviously modern capabilities would work.

 

This would require a finalised/never changing legacy protocol but that seems doable. This is an extensible solution: next legacy round this can be done again. Obviously you don’t want to support hundreds of versions/combinations but a handful seems manageable.


However the problem (and quite possibly the reason for not doing this) is that it would be confusing for users. Let’s imagine a new music service is only available on modern units. In a mixed network you could start playback on a modern unit, add another modern unit and all would be fine. The second you added a legacy unit playback would stop. Support nightmare.

 

However I feel this would be preferable to most of us

F
Userlevel 3
Badge

To All readers,

CEO Patrick’s apology letter to customers….advising that they really “got it wrong” with a explanation is all BS!

Attached is the SEC filing identified the fact that management KNEW there would be negative possibilities….”SO HOW DOES THIS CEO”  send out a letter to customers filled with SPIN that “they got the message out incorrectly”???

https://www.reddit.com/r/sonos/comments/esgbhq/sonos_sec_filing_for_q4_2019_predicts_the_future/

The new WALL STREET management has no honesty nor will I provide any consideration of TRUST….they are “playing” us…..SPIN,SPIN,SPIN...$$$ 

C
Userlevel 1

I have spent a significant amount of time reading the various comments from once happy customers.  For me, I have invested thousands of dollars into high end stereo systems and speakers.  Some of those products are in excess of 15 years old-and the companies are still in business. I also still have hundreds of albums and cds, as I appreciate the quality over streaming.  Sonos for me was used as a peripheral music system that covered my back yard, office and deck areas. I only have 5 products 4 of which have been classified as obsolete.  
What is really difficult for me is to understand how your store distributors can be selling products in 2014, 2015 and 2016, which are all of a sudden obsolete.  I know that your company says that they don’t have the capability to handle the new updates, but didn’t you know this 3 or 4 years ago? Is this a new revelation to your engineering and technical  teams?  And finally, as I said this is not my main source of music, I am trying to figure out WHAT NEW UPDATES YOU ARE PROVIDING?  To me, each new update REMOVES FUNCTIONALITY! The fact that I cannot play music that I have purchased and added to my iPad or cell is ridiculous.  That update was one of the beginning steps of demise. Your customers pay a lot of money for your systems and we should never lose functionality on an existing product.  What important functionality has been added?  I am now afraid to do any additional updates. What were you and your management team thinking...other than how do we increase our revenues?

J
Userlevel 6
Badge +5

 I don’t think it’s possible to stop one individual app updating automatically on iOS, it’s all manual or all automatic.

It is…….

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index12.html#post16400653

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

 I don’t think it’s possible to stop one individual app updating automatically on iOS, it’s all manual or all automatic.

It is…….

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index12.html#post16400653

That’s interesting, thanks. Hopefully if Sonos have any pretence or having the customer in mind they won’t make us do anything that complex. 
Since you seem to have looked in to the technical questions behind this - do you know if the Sonos devices get updates from the web directly, or does the controller app distribute the new software to them?

J
Userlevel 6
Badge +5

 I don’t think it’s possible to stop one individual app updating automatically on iOS, it’s all manual or all automatic.

It is…….

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index12.html#post16400653

That’s interesting, thanks. Hopefully if Sonos have any pretence or having the customer in mind they won’t make us do anything that complex. 
Since you seem to have looked in to the technical questions behind this - do you know if the Sonos devices get updates from the web directly, or does the controller app distribute the new software to them?

Sorry, I know nothing about the actual update process - the info I gave was part and parcel of the lock down procedures for those users who want to fix their systems at the current version and prevent any future updates…...

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
Badge +26

 I don’t think it’s possible to stop one individual app updating automatically on iOS, it’s all manual or all automatic.

It is…….

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index12.html#post16400653

That’s interesting, thanks. Hopefully if Sonos have any pretence or having the customer in mind they won’t make us do anything that complex. 
Since you seem to have looked in to the technical questions behind this - do you know if the Sonos devices get updates from the web directly, or does the controller app distribute the new software to them?

Sorry, I know nothing about the actual update process - the info I gave was part and parcel of the lock down procedures for those users who want to fix their systems at the current version and prevent any future updates…...

The controller tells the players to go out and get the new update and each player goes out to the network, connects to the update servers and downloads the appropriate file. 

Also, please keep in mind that once the legacy software comes out in May, you won’t need to turn off updates or lock devices from the Internet, your legacy players won’t be able to update to the wrong software and we’ve worked out a solution for the controllers so you won't wind up being unable to control your system either. 

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

The controller tells the players to go out and get the new update and each player goes out to the network, connects to the update servers and downloads the appropriate file. 

Also, please keep in mind that once the legacy software comes out in May, you won’t need to turn off updates or lock devices from the Internet, your legacy players won’t be able to update to the wrong software and we’ve worked out a solution for the controllers so you won't wind up being unable to control your system either. 

Thanks Ryan, that’s very helpful. I hope you’re feeling better today. 

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
Badge +26

The controller tells the players to go out and get the new update and each player goes out to the network, connects to the update servers and downloads the appropriate file. 

Also, please keep in mind that once the legacy software comes out in May, you won’t need to turn off updates or lock devices from the Internet, your legacy players won’t be able to update to the wrong software and we’ve worked out a solution for the controllers so you won't wind up being unable to control your system either. 

Thanks Ryan, that’s very helpful. I hope you’re feeling better today. 

Definitely on the mend. Thanks!

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
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