End of Software Support - Clarifications

+3

jwinther
Lyricist III
47 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

PhilRobbo wrote:

mmca22gr wrote:

Wkelkel wrote:

50 pages back I felt the same as you. A quick email and a phone call back from Sonos HQ and within 5 minutes chatting it was clear to me that Sonos are indeed still the company that we all started out with. My impression is that they are working to put this right!

If in doubt send the an email with your concerns and see what happens. You'll be pleasently surprised at just how proactive this company is with its community followers and support.

If they are so ‘proactive’ then why are they doing this on an email by email basis?

indeed, they could be posting on here instead and we would be all happy. The fact that they are not speaks volumes.

To be honest, even though I am happy to hear that some people apparantly got their problems sorted out, we are still left with lots and more lots of people who have bricked their old equipment and spent money they didn’t have on buying new equipment they didn’t need because they woke up with a horse head next to them in the bed - lots of anger, fear, disbelief and other negative feelings have spread all over the internet and is there now to stay.

Even if it all turns out to be a big candid camera gig and we are all supposed to sit together one day over a beer and laugh of it all, I have to say that it all gives me a really bad taste in my mouth. Hurray for finding solutions, but how about doing it broad and quick and perhaps more important, try not to create the mess in the first place.

“This is a chance now to come up with a system that doesn’t cause massive planetary damage in exchange for disposable stuff,” Proctor said. (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3a8dpn/sonos-makes-it-clear-you-no-longer-own-the-things-you-buy)

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+3

Wkelkel
Enthusiast II
43 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

chickentender wrote:

Every answer to every question that appears in this thread (or at least the vast majority) on a repeated cycle has been answered. This thread is serving as a venting room, and as well it should. But inevitably after new folks arrive and express their fears and frustrations at this news (again, warranted) they often continue on within the thread with questions and assumptions that have invariably already been covered, both earlier (repeatedly) in this same thread, and elsewhere on the board.
Just pointing this out because while anyone is free to ask or state anything they like in this particular conversation, they might be less frustrated and find answers more quickly by either reading back or going to one of the other more specific and calm threads. (And I say this after initially venting here myself last week). This thread is a churn that buries good information within a very short period of time. Just saying. :relaxed:

Well said. This thread has gone into meltdown. It's repeating itself over. People's options,s rants prodding and arguing. My advise is if you have a problem put it over to the Sonos team directly, factual get to your point and tell them what your issue is or what you wanted to happen. I think like with me they will get back to you. From that you can then decide how you feel thereafter. I'm personally very impressed with their approach and attitude.

P

PhilRobbo
Lyricist III
10 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

Wkelkel wrote:

chickentender wrote:

Every answer to every question that appears in this thread (or at least the vast majority) on a repeated cycle has been answered. This thread is serving as a venting room, and as well it should. But inevitably after new folks arrive and express their fears and frustrations at this news (again, warranted) they often continue on within the thread with questions and assumptions that have invariably already been covered, both earlier (repeatedly) in this same thread, and elsewhere on the board.
Just pointing this out because while anyone is free to ask or state anything they like in this particular conversation, they might be less frustrated and find answers more quickly by either reading back or going to one of the other more specific and calm threads. (And I say this after initially venting here myself last week). This thread is a churn that buries good information within a very short period of time. Just saying. :relaxed:

Well said. This thread has gone into meltdown. People's options ,solutions rants prodding and arguing. My advise is if you have a problem put it over to the Sonos team directly, factual and telling them what your issue is or what you wanted to happen. In think like with me they will get back to you. From that you can then decide how you feel thereafter. I'm personally very impressed with their approach and attitude.

In other words leave Sonos alone, they are wonderful caring beings who only have our best welfare in mind and would never do anything to harm their beloved customers - cut the BS

+3

Wkelkel
Enthusiast II
43 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

PhilRobbo wrote:

Wkelkel wrote:

chickentender wrote:

Every answer to every question that appears in this thread (or at least the vast majority) on a repeated cycle has been answered. This thread is serving as a venting room, and as well it should. But inevitably after new folks arrive and express their fears and frustrations at this news (again, warranted) they often continue on within the thread with questions and assumptions that have invariably already been covered, both earlier (repeatedly) in this same thread, and elsewhere on the board.
Just pointing this out because while anyone is free to ask or state anything they like in this particular conversation, they might be less frustrated and find answers more quickly by either reading back or going to one of the other more specific and calm threads. (And I say this after initially venting here myself last week). This thread is a churn that buries good information within a very short period of time. Just saying. :relaxed:

Well said. This thread has gone into meltdown. People's options ,solutions rants prodding and arguing. My advise is if you have a problem put it over to the Sonos team directly, factual and telling them what your issue is or what you wanted to happen. In think like with me they will get back to you. From that you can then decide how you feel thereafter. I'm personally very impressed with their approach and attitude.

In other words leave Sonos alone, they are wonderful caring beings who only have our best welfare in mind and would never do anything to harm their beloved customers - cut the BS

You see there you go. I was like you 70 pages back. I'm now listening to some nice music on my Sonos speaker. Make that call direct if it's affecting your well being

D

+5

DK_Madsen
Enthusiast II
165 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

Wkelkel wrote:

50 pages back I felt the same as you. A quick email and a phone call back from Sonos HQ and within 5 minutes chatting it was clear to me that Sonos are indeed still the company that we all started out with. My impression is that they are working to put this right!

If in doubt send the an email with your concerns and see what happens. You'll be pleasently surprised at just how proactive this company is with its community followers and support.

Bloody hell mate, what did they give you.

Free sonos units to replace your legacy hardware, a gag order not to tell what they did AND you promised them that you would talk positively about them, without telling WHAT they did for you. ? :)

sambeny
Lyricist III
7 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

How am I supposed to react to this? The first Sonos product I bought was a Connect:Amp - I did not buy it in 2005. I was about 4 years ago and it cost £500 then. It was expensive - and no one warned me that it was going to be obsolete - It feels like I should have put my money elsewhere. £500 to power two traditional Bose speakers now felt like bad value for money. But, I moved to Sonos and the whole integrated system thinking I moved on to a new era. What a disappointment!

+1

Johnas
Enthusiast II
42 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

Wkelkel wrote:

PhilRobbo wrote:

Wkelkel wrote:

chickentender wrote:

Every answer to every question that appears in this thread (or at least the vast majority) on a repeated cycle has been answered. This thread is serving as a venting room, and as well it should. But inevitably after new folks arrive and express their fears and frustrations at this news (again, warranted) they often continue on within the thread with questions and assumptions that have invariably already been covered, both earlier (repeatedly) in this same thread, and elsewhere on the board.
Just pointing this out because while anyone is free to ask or state anything they like in this particular conversation, they might be less frustrated and find answers more quickly by either reading back or going to one of the other more specific and calm threads. (And I say this after initially venting here myself last week). This thread is a churn that buries good information within a very short period of time. Just saying. :relaxed:

Well said. This thread has gone into meltdown. People's options ,solutions rants prodding and arguing. My advise is if you have a problem put it over to the Sonos team directly, factual and telling them what your issue is or what you wanted to happen. In think like with me they will get back to you. From that you can then decide how you feel thereafter. I'm personally very impressed with their approach and attitude.

In other words leave Sonos alone, they are wonderful caring beings who only have our best welfare in mind and would never do anything to harm their beloved customers - cut the BS

You see there you go. I was like you 70 pages back. I'm now listening to some nice music on my Sonos speaker. Make that call direct if it's affecting your well being

What did they do for you?

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+5

DK_Madsen
Enthusiast II
165 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

Johnas wrote:

What did they do for you?

He either can not say directly OR he is a troll.

In any case, he is just as vague and fluffy in his answer as Sonos themselves.

My guess is that they replaced his legacy equipment in return for his cooporation and support.

He just cant tell, because then everyone wants to do this.

PhilRobbo
Lyricist III
10 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

DK_Madsen wrote:

Johnas wrote:

What did they do for you?

He either can not say directly OR he is a troll.

In any case, he is just as vague and fluffy in his answer as Sonos themselves.

My guess is that they replaced his legacy equipment in return for his cooporation and support.

He just cant tell, because then everyone wants to do this.

…..and either way that makes anything he says highly biased

+5

DK_Madsen
Enthusiast II
165 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

PhilRobbo wrote:

…..and either way that makes anything he says highly biased

I agree, unless he tells us what they did that was so great, i suggest putting no value to his statements as we have no idea if they are

True
Not “paid for”

+3

mmca22gr
Enthusiast II
37 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

DK_Madsen wrote:

Johnas wrote:

What did they do for you?

He either can not say directly OR he is a troll.

In any case, he is just as vague and fluffy in his answer as Sonos themselves.

My guess is that they replaced his legacy equipment in return for his cooporation and support.

He just cant tell, because then everyone wants to do this.

Well I called today and said I was returning my beam 5.1 setup that I bought in Nov through the upgrade 30% off scheme. Had I been informed then about the legacy issue and the inability to continue with a unified whole house audio system then I would not have purchased.
I now get to send the items back and get a refund but I no longer have the Play5 - they said I would get 30% voucher again. I laughed and said I will neverbuy aanother thing from them so it is fraudulent sale on their part.
told me they would elevate to a manager. I have heard nothing. No emails about the return process or any further communication.

+1

Whitenoise
Enthusiast I
24 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

Whitenoise wrote:

@Ryan S: I gather from your posts today that you don't anticipate substantial new details on the Legacy option until May. Could you please confirm that?

I have a new Play:5 (unopened in box) and Move (within return window), and I'd happily keep it all in my Legacy system long-term if that's a solution Sonos works out. But if we're not going to learn more in the coming days, Id prefer to just return them, wait, and not get wrapped up in this until May. Thanks.

In case this question above was relevant to others following this thread, see @Ryan S confirmation below from elsewhere. Deinvesting from Modern and moving on.

Whitenoise wrote:

Ralpfocus wrote:

@Ryan Syou have quoted variations of “We haven’t shared all of the details of how the current legacy process is happening. Let’s get through May first before….” a number of times now. It looks like that there may quite a large amount of information released in May (and hopefully some significant changes to the proposed course of action :relaxed: ) plus new releases of software.

I am concerned that there may be a very limited amount of time to decide upon a pragmatic way forward before software is released that accidentally and Irrevocably changes ones environment. By accidentally I mean scenarios such as friends or family coming round with the latest version of the app (maybe they only have modern kit) on their phone and (helpfully) forcing an update of the system. Can Sonos confirm that customers will have time to decide what to do and that there will be safeguards to prevent an accidental action or methods that enable customers to switch between the options?

In so many different variations, this. @Ryan S You keep suggesting that all important details will come in May -- not earlier? Could you confirm that Sonos does not anticipate being able to provide further details on the Legacy option in the near-term?

At best, I can confirm that’s currently the plan I have to share. But if information does become available sooner, I’ll be sure to let you all know.

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.

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+3

HelterSkelter
Enthusiast II
66 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

KingPin wrote:

I can’t believe they don’t engage in this threat. We have paid big money for your products, and you just don’t care enough to answer relevant and important questions? The arrogance is even worse than the money grab scheme and the semi-lies.

I agree @KingPin

It’s like each day passes, they think this problem will go away.

It amazes me, that they are not engaging, other than Ryan (that is on leave sick).
The only answer I can come up with, is because they know they are in the wrong.

I have had two emails from support, but both were condescending and were designed more to pacify (which they didn’t), than to change anything. They didn’t resolve anything for me, just told me that iPhones and other devices run out of software updates.

+1

mrwarped
Lyricist III
21 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

Ryan S wrote:

mrwarped wrote:

Ryan S wrote:

mrwarped wrote:

Ryan S

Ok, as I am losing the will to live and really need to get back to my normal life not watching these pages for the Holy Grail answer that obviously isn’t coming let me be clear on the “Worst Case Scenario” as I see it.

From May as I intend to keep using my Play5 my entire system will be in legacy, shortly thereafter it sounds like all streaming services will stop at some point, true this far?

Moving on then I will still be able to stream my own music library from my IMac across my entire legacy system, Yes/No?

I will be able to plug my £40, oops sorry £30 (Black Friday) Echo Dot into the line in on the 5 and stream across my entire legacy system, thus negating the need for any streaming service software support from Sonos, Yes/No?

the million dollar question as I see it, when will you stop supporting the legacy systems from within the app? No app control, no speakers streaming or otherwise

Ryan S I can see your busy moderating language and probably contributing on other threads but can you please answer my clear questions in this post please,

@mrwarped If the system and setup continues to stay largely the same, the local library and line in shouldn’t have any issues that I can foresee. That said, you may have to make sure network connection changes are backwards compatible (not likely to be an issue for many years) and that you don’t go and convert your music library into some brand new format that we can’t support on legacy devices. So if basic file sharing and the music library stays the same, you shouldn’t run into any trouble.

Ryan S thankyou for your reply, I’ll take it that you guys will continue to support legacy thru the app for Several years to come also?

Yeah, we’ll have more on that to come in May. Also, it’s worth noting on the music library front that if it’s coming from a computer, OS changes to the computer could affect the sharing permissions in a way that could degrade or stop things from working correctly.

Ryan S thanks for Taking the time to answer my questions, I expect you have been Avery busy man.

I can’t see Apple changing the way it stores or outputs audio anytime soon, well not without fair notice anyway,!!.

In an effort to be proactive and help any others reading this, I am currently listening to an Echo Dot streaming audio from Spotify via the line in of my soon to be legacy Play 5 across all my zones, it’s faultless! also tested with national radio, faultless. Just to make sure I then checked my IMac running High Sierra still works as my music library, faultless. I will make every effort to make sure everything on “my” system now remains at a status quo. I await your May announcement with interest although I think Sonos would be better served getting the info out much sooner. I am not going to watch the posts any longer and just let whatever’s become what they will, I shall continue to use my system for as long as it works and when it’s dead, it’s dead.

It was good whilst it lasted but I’m afraid that really is me done with Sonos

+3

HelterSkelter
Enthusiast II
66 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

DK_Madsen wrote:

kassey22000 wrote:

Upgrade kit? I’ve tried to read every post in this and a few other corollary topics regarding Legacy components and if I’ve missed something, I apologize in advance.

From reading other threads, the issue of Legacy seems to come down to memory, not CPU processing power (regarding Legacy vs. Modern units). We now know that Sonos slip-streamed more memory into old boxes up until about mid 2015 (that’s why you can have a mix of legacy and modern Connects and Connect AMPs, etc.). Modern components have more memory.

Ok, so give us a memory/firmware upgrade kit/path. Peachtree Audio (an early marketing partner with Sonos for the ZP80) has a kit that upgrades their premium amplifiers to the new bluesound-like WiFi streaming and BT abilities for a very fair price if you own one of their excellent amps.

Many of us have replaced batteries for the old Controller 100s with no difficulty even though it looked daunting initially - of course that’s before Sonos did actually brick them with a single update (yes John B. bricked!). There were even several YouTube videos on how to easily take apart the unit and upgrade the parts inside.

Offer the parts at Sonos’ COGS, and offer a fair replacement option for those who wish not to tinker but like us can’t justify the stupid extra expense for new AMPs and Ports while having to chuck our old gear in to the (already overflowing) e-waste stream.

What? you say... this company is public... they have to depend on boosting sales at the expense of their brand and legacy customer good will? They HAVE to remove the future liability costs of supporting 5+year old products? Then perhaps that is really what this is all about. Is Sonos only driven by Wallstreet’s demands for short-term quarterly growth and not long-term survival? Short-term investors want short term results, but that kills a lot of long-term plans and ultimately kills great companies as well.

Memory upgrade kits to keep us in the long-term loyalty/brand ambassadorship circles while we ponder your next wiz-bang products and services. Just a thought ;-)

And to the wonderful support and sales staff at Sonos - You’re great people and all of us wish you the very best. I sincerely hope this will turn out great for all concerned.

Unless you are able to solder soic or maybe even BGA, you wont be able to upgrade

Even if you could, you would need a way to flash the speaker with some firmware to be able to wake it up again.

This would be tricky, as they would need to know a way to reprogram the unit with the real serial.

To be honest, it sounds like something that only a very few users would be able to achieve.

Maybe they could make swap boards, where they took old Play 1 and amp boards, and remanufactured them with more RAM and ROM, and then you could buy a swap PCB, which they would then program and sell to the next person, but even that, would require people to disassemble the speaker and do some swapping, which would even make it impossible for some users.

As I see it, we don’t need to change the chips, it would make sense to make the software less bloated.
It’s all working as is, what possible extra functionality could be required moving forward other than ever more streaming services?

I can’t think of anything that speakers could do, other than network, user control functions, stream, read from NAS, update a server with statistics, listen and act upon voice. All of which it already does.

What else is there?

I appreciate that if the memory needs to be loaded up with programs on how to handle every single streaming service (and whether you use Alexa or not) etc …. then have those things as options in the controlling app. If the user doesn’t want 50 streaming services, then just only upload the 1 or 2 that are in use to the network of sonos devices.

H

+3

HelterSkelter
Enthusiast II
66 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

johannst wrote:

Spotify os no longer supported on 2011 iPhones. Forcing people to buy new ones. What do you think of that? I dont see iphone spotify subscribers whining like bunch of wuzzes that spotify is the devil.

Not being able to update "old" stuff with latest 2020 updates should not be such a shock to anyone.

Be fair people.

Are you joking @johannst ?

I bought an iPhone that year, and was happy to upgrade it later, as I already knew they had a life expectancy. Upgrading for constant new features that are actually wanted, oh, and by the way, the phone would still work today anyway!

The same year I bought 16 Sonos devices, with absolutely no inclination that they had a shelf life, and the manufacturer was advertising them as ‘add to the system any time you want’

+6

kassey22000
Enthusiast II
202 replies
5 years ago
January 28, 2020

Johnas wrote:

Wkelkel wrote:

PhilRobbo wrote:

Wkelkel wrote:

chickentender wrote:

Every answer to every question that appears in this thread (or at least the vast majority) on a repeated cycle has been answered. This thread is serving as a venting room, and as well it should. But inevitably after new folks arrive and express their fears and frustrations at this news (again, warranted) they often continue on within the thread with questions and assumptions that have invariably already been covered, both earlier (repeatedly) in this same thread, and elsewhere on the board.
Just pointing this out because while anyone is free to ask or state anything they like in this particular conversation, they might be less frustrated and find answers more quickly by either reading back or going to one of the other more specific and calm threads. (And I say this after initially venting here myself last week). This thread is a churn that buries good information within a very short period of time. Just saying. :relaxed:

Well said. This thread has gone into meltdown. People's options ,solutions rants prodding and arguing. My advise is if you have a problem put it over to the Sonos team directly, factual and telling them what your issue is or what you wanted to happen. In think like with me they will get back to you. From that you can then decide how you feel thereafter. I'm personally very impressed with their approach and attitude.

In other words leave Sonos alone, they are wonderful caring beings who only have our best welfare in mind and would never do anything to harm their beloved customers - cut the BS

You see there you go. I was like you 70 pages back. I'm now listening to some nice music on my Sonos speaker. Make that call direct if it's affecting your well being

What did they do for you?

Hmm, I did exactly what Wkelkel suggested many posts back. I have left multiple emails to support as well as Patrick over the last week including one this AM. Nothing yet so I’m not sure Wkelkel is the rule but the exception and perhaps just some PR person. Or Sonos is working their way along the time zones and haven’t gotten to the US Westcoast yet. I want to remain hopeful, but Sonos could ease a lot of tension if they posted here and with a broad-based email broadcast to their customers impacted by this.

Anyone else talk with the CEO in the last 72hrs? Get their system right-sided?

+3

HelterSkelter
Enthusiast II
66 replies
5 years ago
January 29, 2020

Wkelkel wrote:

MikeOinToronto wrote:

This is my first post on this forum but I felt it was important enough to sign up to express my concerns over the announcement last week. For the past week I have felt a great deal of rage aimed towards the company, a feeling I can honestly say really caught me off guard. After a week I have calmed down and given some careful consideration and am not sure whether I will stay with Sonos or not. None of the products I own are legacy so really no action on my part is required. This really comes down to whether or not to continue to support a company with my purchasing. Not a big deal for a large company but I will be very interested to see over the next few months what type of company they are now.

In my simple mind there are two types of companies. There are those I trust are looking out for the best interests of their customers. These companies are generally product and service focused and while they need to be profitable to remain in business, they will not screw over there customers in order to increase profits. Then there are companies who only focus on “revenue streams” and shareholder value, usually run by MBAs, where the products are simply a way to create revenue.

We all deal with both types of companies in our daily lives. The difference is that the first type of company is a pleasure to deal with and is the default option whenever we need something they offer. I have gone to the same barber for 25 years. I never feel he is going to screw me over to get an increase in revenue. He offers a service, He occasionally raises his prices and I accept that he needs to do that to stay in business. The second type of company I only buy from when absolutely necessary and then approach the transaction as a necessary evil. If only one company sells something I need, I have to buy from them. But I don’t trust that they wouldn’t try to screw me over if it would increase their profits.

I have used Sonos products for probably 7 or 8 years and always felt Sonos was the first type of company. Their products were top notch, more expensive but were not disposable. Long term CEO/founder. Essentially like many others here, it was the only option I looked at.

Last weeks announcement changed all that. Essentially it felt like a company I had a great deal of respect for violated my trust. Not because old technology doesn’t get obsolete. But because of the way current management decided to deal with the problem. Instead of trying to come up with a solution to the problem to assist customers make the transition, management decided this was an opportunity to make a profit from it. A problem they helped create by selling underspec’d products as recently as a few years ago.

First, learning that some in management cashed out large amounts of stock before this decision was announced, to me is disgraceful. It is a giant screw you to your customers. Like the captain of a ship taking the life boat while the passengers are still on board.

Second, offering only a thirty percent upgrade discount knowing full well they would still be making a substantial profit on these sales.

Third, forcing users to brick their old systems to get that discount. Why not just mark the serial numbers that received the discount so they can only get the discount once?

Fourth, making it sound like there is no technical solution to this issue when clearly there are several. It is just much more profitable to force a customer to upgrade than it is to keep multiple code bases or develop some kind of bridge device.

At any rate I think that many of us are now simply cynical towards the company now and feel that a once great company has been taken over by business grads and investors who feel that the products are irrelevant and that the revenue stream and stock value are what is important. It may be, and I hope is a mistaken belief. The next few months will tell. If I see a company making a serious attempt to assist customers make a transition rather than trying to profit from this transition, I may go back to purchasing. If not, I will not purchase any more of their products as their are many other competitors in the market. And not that I trust the Amazons or Googles any more, just that I will expect them to screw me over for more profit, so I will just buy the cheapest product that meets my needs.

Again, I hope I am wrong. I really would prefer to return to a world where I believed Sonos was a great company and could recommend them to anyone looking for a good modern audio system.

50 pages back I felt the same as you. A quick email and a phone call back from Sonos HQ and within 5 minutes chatting it was clear to me that Sonos are indeed still the company that we all started out with. My impression is that they are working to put this right!

If in doubt send the an email with your concerns and see what happens. You'll be pleasently surprised at just how proactive this company is with its community followers and support.

Are you on the Sonos payroll @Wkelkel ?

Your posts are starting to sound like ‘I saw the light’, but without ever explaining why.

I have indeed been in touch with support, and their answers have been far from useful, and even condescending.

+3

HelterSkelter
Enthusiast II
66 replies
5 years ago
January 29, 2020