End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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K
Userlevel 5
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a

Let's be clear, the reasoning of devices reaching technical limits is just a poor excuse.

Those devices being categorised as legacy need do nothing more than receive an audio stream.

It is ENTIRELY possible for this to be done by having another device in the mesh/network do the processing and pass this stream to a legacy device.

It could be achieved by either the addition of a separate single box in the mesh controlling this, or existing more powerful devices processing the audio for its legacy neighbour/s.

It is exactly the same principal as your wireless headphones with 2mb ram being able to play sound while your phone, ipad whatever does the work of receiving, transcodeing and transmitting the stream.

This move by sonos, coupled with it's new hardware having a "5 year support" line is nothing but a transition toward making sonos a disposable item like a smartphone.

A single smartphone in my pocket may be disposable every 5 years.

A 20 zone multi room music system with a £6000 ($8000) price tag, is NOT a 5 year disposable item for me.


They can even make it so that the speaker itself does this.

They say they do not have anough flash and ram, but right now every speaker runs the same firmware, meaning that a lot of code inside for example the Play 5 is not used for the play 5.

Alexa integration, airplay 2 integration and a whole lot of other stuff.

If they took the latest firmware, trimmed it down to the bare essentials needed for current features, they would probably have loads of space left.

What they need to do is get away from the “every speaker MUST have identical firmware” and begin “Legacy devices has basic firmware that the new firmware versions can talk to, and enable the functions that the legacy device can handle like multiroom streaming and MP3 playback”.

 

I would even think that this approach would give them enough space to be able to update streaming services, if they change the way their stream works….Atleast until such a time, that the actual processor can not keep up, and at that time they would be able to do as you suggest.

They could even make a bit of money if they made a “legacy / Modern” bridge, that facilitatet the connection between new and old. This bridge would contain “plenty of ram/rom/processing power”.

 

But i suspect they would rather “force” you to buy a lot of new speakers instead of one legacy to modern bridge.

 

This is exactly why I think it's a financial decision. 

 

Instead of making separate firmware / a distributed computing model, they are encouraging customers to upgrade perfectly good hardware.

 

There aren't any other obvious motivators to go down that path. They knew they would take a PR hit for it. They must have gambled on making a profit in the long run. 

They should redesign all new Sonos systems with a module holding the processor, memory and networking hardware. The module would be held in place with simple screws and could be upgraded at home when needed. The parts of the speakers that will take 50 years or more to fail are, sort off recycled. This would be good for the environment, good for our investment in the product and good for Sonos. No electronic company currently dose this, Sonos could be a world leader but would need the will to do it, just  my thoughts on this mess...

The only problem, knowing “the new” Sonos by now, is that they will do it more often than needed and charge $399 per unit every time. 

G
Userlevel 6
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https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.sonos.com

 

Now stands at 81% 1* reviews - just keeps getting worse for Sonos

K

They should redesign all new Sonos systems with a module holding the processor, memory and networking hardware. The module would be held in place with simple screws and could be upgraded at home when needed. The parts of the speakers that will take 50 years or more to fail are, sort off recycled. This would be good for the environment, good for our investment in the product and good for Sonos. No electronic company currently dose this, Sonos could be a world leader but would need the will to do it, just  my thoughts on this mess...

The only problem, knowing “the new” Sonos by now, is that they will do it more often than needed and charge $399 per unit every time. 

@KingPin - Not if they were making the speaker unit and making sure that their smart module would work only with their speaker. Unlike the case with Port/Connect, where they had no sure way to capture the downstream revenues. 

I repeat, this is the way forward. Time will tell if Sonos takes it.

G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

They should redesign all new Sonos systems with a module holding the processor, memory and networking hardware. The module would be held in place with simple screws and could be upgraded at home when needed. The parts of the speakers that will take 50 years or more to fail are, sort off recycled. This would be good for the environment, good for our investment in the product and good for Sonos. No electronic company currently dose this, Sonos could be a world leader but would need the will to do it, just  my thoughts on this mess...

The only problem, knowing “the new” Sonos by now, is that they will do it more often than needed and charge $399 per unit every time. 

@KingPin - Not if they were making the speaker unit and making sure that their smart module would work only with their speaker. Unlike the case with Port/Connect, where they had no sure way to capture the downstream revenues. 

I repeat, this is the way forward. Time will tell if Sonos takes it.

That would work really well - Assuming you only had connections to the amplifiers(s)/sound board and power board. A totally self contained control unit that is easily replaceable and updateable, with a minimal interface to the powered speaker. That said you could do the same with a Raspberry Pi

F
Userlevel 4
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Kumar

I agree and understand BUT Sonos is not flavour of the month for me right now

As i said I wont be buying anything Sonos from now on .

If i could resell my existing kit now i would but second hand kit is worthless now .

I have other connected devices BUT this has enlightened  me about ANY internet connected device 

So…  i will just buy the cheapest kit from now on rather than “high” end kit “

Why waste good hard earned money ….

G
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Kumar

I agree and understand BUT Sonos is not flavour of the month for me right now

As i said I wont be buying anything Sonos from now on .

If i could resell my existing kit now i would but second hand kit is worthless now .

I have other connected devices BUT this has enlightened  me about ANY internet connected device 

So…  i will just buy the cheapest kit from now on rather than “high” end kit “

Why waste good hard earned money ….

This ^

N
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.sonos.com

 

Now stands at 81% 1* reviews - just keeps getting worse for Sonos

 

This is brutal but they deserve all of it. 

#BoycottSonos
C
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

The “SONOS is a Computer” argument is wrong.

First - it was never sold as a computer, it was sold as an audio product.

Second - if they were computers, then a new SONOS PORT which replaces the CONNECT, would cost ½ the price ($175) instead of $100 more ($450 vs the CONNECTs $350).

Even more shocking, is the ZonePlayer90 (the original CONNECT) debuted in 2008.  So after a decade SONOS new COMPUTER, added 480 MB memory and storage (not GB, MB), added a trigger port, airplay 2 support and a 10 db improvement in S/N ratio.  

So what WHY ARE SONOS customers paying $450 for a port, or $350 for a CONNECT, when we know the cost to manufacture these items is somewhere south of $10, because we were paying for lifetime support of the firmware, not five years. 

S
Userlevel 3
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The “SONOS is a Computer” argument is wrong.

First - it was never sold as a computer, it was sold as an audio product.

Second - if they were computers, then a new SONOS PORT which replaces the CONNECT, would cost ½ the price ($175) instead of $100 more ($450 vs the CONNECTs $350).

Even more shocking, is the ZonePlayer90 (the original CONNECT) debuted in 2008.  So after a decade SONOS new COMPUTER, added 480 MB memory and storage (not GB, MB), added a trigger port, airplay 2 support and a 10 db improvement in S/N ratio.  

So what WHY ARE SONOS customers paying $450 for a port, or $350 for a CONNECT, when we know the cost to manufacture these items is somewhere south of $10, because we were paying for lifetime support of the firmware, not five years. 

 

 

£400 for a Sonos port here in the UK is a ludicrous price for what it is. You could buy a fully fledged Denon / Sonos AV receiver for that. These days those devices come with built in Airplay 2, Chromecast audio etc on top of all the other brilliant stuff they do. Even with the 30% trade it’s still too expensive.

 

Think I’m just going to stay with all my legacy kit for now and see how things pan out. It does what I need it to do for now

K

 

Think I’m just going to stay with all my legacy kit for now and see how things pan out. It does what I need it to do for now

John MacFarlane is one of the Sonos founders and was CEO till a couple of years ago. He has tweeted that he is planning to do the quoted, with his legacy products. He puts it slightly differently, he says that he will keep them till Sonos puts out an update that he wants.

So you are in august company.

M
Userlevel 2

I have been a SONOS customer since 2011

My SONOS system is in every room of my house a I listen to it every day

My system has 5 zones and I invested 5K$ in your products

I LIKED the SONOS system so much that I recommended it to all my friends and more than 10 have invested in SONOS

Now I’m very embarrassed that I did !!!

I worked for 5 years supporting installers and salesman for SONOS product in a high-end Hi-Fi Audio Store

Following last week email which SONOS declared "legacy" products I was flabbergasted to hear how your loyal customers were treated

The email of January 21st simply demonstrate that your company doesn’t understand the basic rules of "Marketing 101"

The CEO apology note response makes it even worst as it is so obvious that it’s "damage control" operation

From the outside this looks like SONOS wants to make quick money that’s all !!!

On top of this some information circulate about the fact that CEO and his directors have sold a big chunk of their stocks before this announcement...

It smells really bad…and I sure hope the US Government will investigate deeper into the actions of some of SONOS management!!!

Not only I lost TOTAL confidence in the company but I will STOP buying SONOS products for good and will invest in products by another vendor

F
Userlevel 3
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I have a SONOS #1...2 package of from Costco. I am returning them today and advise on the Costco web page of company decision to discontinue software update and then to no longer support 5 year equipment as well as more potential negative decisions. 

I will recommend DO NOT PURCHASE!

I
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.sonos.com

 

Now stands at 81% 1* reviews - just keeps getting worse for Sonos

 

This is brutal but they deserve all of it. 

Well intentioned but I, and I suspect many other casual purchasers, don’t read TrustPilot for consumer goods; more effective, but more legwork, to blitz resellers (eg in Uk John Lewis; Curry’s, Richer Sounds etc) with adverse reviews plus on line portals such as Amazon

F
Userlevel 3
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Great point….I agree!

We are the victims of a scam

W
Userlevel 5
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“designed at least 10 years ago” - yes, DESIGNED, but sold FAR more recently than that and people have bought legacy products, from proper retailers within the past 5 years.

 

“They are computers with speakers built into them” - do you know your customers at all? Because I’m pretty sure that most of us see them as speakers with smarts added on. Why do you think there is this backlash - we’re used to our hifi speakers lasting much, much longer.

 

Guy_19
Userlevel 5
Badge +4
  • ...
    The modern system would keep on updating and the legacy one would be largely parked, but continue working as it does today.

    Thanks for caring,

    Ryan

Thanks for your replies Ryan.  Just referring to the last sentence in the above long exchange.  If, by that, you mean that my 2 old Connects will continue to work as they do today, then that’s all good, because today, they happily group with my Play 5 Gen2 and Play:1s.  If that’s not the case, then I think you may need to be more explicit.

7 rooms: One SL Stereo Pair, One SL x 2, Move, Play:5 Gen2 & Port into Arcam AVR with AE floorstanders, Port into Denon microsystem.
U
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

Well, I put a comment on this forum just after the legacy announcement and like most (all?) others was somewhat furious with Sonos. A day later I commented to a friend, whom I had introduced to Sonos, that you were either going to backtrack or go under.

So I should do a follow-up.

I’m glad you decided to backtrack.  However you know, I hope, that you have a tremendous amount to do to regain the trust of your loyal customers, myself included.

I have all the items in the picture on the left behind Patrick (‘Beginning’; image and text from the BBC’s website). I recognise that they cannot be expected to last for ever (and the CR100’s have of course been retired - but their replacement, the Sonos app, is very good and, ahem, free). I don’t know what ‘exciting services’ you have planned for the future but I would like to be able to opt in if I want them and opt out if I don’t. 99% of my Sonos activity is listening to the radio (via TuneIn) and listing to my albums, streamed from a NAS. Simples.

And if that’s all I want the ZP80 / ZP100 to do for a long time then I don’t see that there is any reason for them not to do so. and I certainly don’t expect you to ever take any action to prevent them doing what they have been doing so well for so long.

 

 

T
Userlevel 2
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The Brand is dead. Worst strategic mistake made by a growth tech. Every new purchase will now be BOSE. I can integrate through alexa. Just sadly am not able to pair brands. The CEO needs to do considerably more and i can only assume he and the board are just STUPID to not think this will affect loyalty and SALES. Anyone thinking of buying a new Sonos will be thinking ‘wait my product is redundant in 5 years and not future proof’

One can only hope that the cash hungry board, through their lack of care for loyal customers will be hit hard where it hurts in their dividends and share price. Because this is the only way these types will learn.

Sonos Board have you not heard of ‘competition, consulting customers, consumer choice’ ? wake up and smell the smart speaker market!

 

 

 

B
Userlevel 3

My last purchase were 2 Play 5s Gen 2. I love the speakers. 

I wanted to get a sub, but now I know I shouldn't - since they could decide that it will be "legacy" tomorrow.

This is so sad - I am surprised that they haven't engaged with us more and that they have not said anything more forceful; the "backtracking" is no such thing since it really appears we won't be able to group speakers together. Shame. 

 

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +8

Sonos SELL premium products. If they are designed to be replaced after 5 to 10 years, then they’re not premium. Might as well as spend a lot less to get the same functionality and replace every 5 to 10 years. If I was buying 1 product, fine, but most buy 5, 10, 20 or more units. You can’t expect customers to suddenly replace half of their large investments in just a few months and at a paltry 30% discount. The products have gone up in price and the dollar has become very strong. Two factors they probably didn’t consider or more worringly, they can’t adapt to lower their prices or offer larger discounts.

They obviously expected a backlash, but I think even this has surprised them. The damage is done. Only a solution that allows the current system to coexist with the newer products while allowing grouping as it was designed, will repair some of the damage. We don’t need the latest technology to run on legacy equipment. We want it to work as is. If it doesn’t in the future, they should either offer a very large discount OR offer a Sonos box that allows the legacy to work in a mixed system. However, when the next batch like Play 1 & 3’s go into legacy, they must have a solution for that. So plan ahead and tell us how you’re going to deal with this soon. For a technology company with very intelligent and technical people to NOT have a proposed solution in the works before making an announcement on legacy equipment, IS beyond a joke. 

The Board must either think we’re naive or were totally unprepared. Based on the statement from the CEO, it seems both. They need to clarify with DETAIL within a few weeks, otherwise, the longer it goes on, the harder it will hit their bottom line and as a public company, that will get a reaction both in the share price and from their investors.

Sonos units AREN’T computers with speakers added! They are foremost speakers with technology to stream music and radio. We don’t use them to browse the internet, buy clothes, send email. We just need the basics AS designed.

Sonos are at a crossroads and if they make the wrong turn, they’ll suffer and at best they’ll be bought out. To try and make customers think this is just about technology moving forward, is the kind of thing politicians do. We know it’s not the complete truth and there are underlying reasons why this is being done. But, imho, you’ve messed up big time. You’ve alienated your core customer base who also act as ambassadors for your brand and help sell new units. Now that has stopped!!

Read, listen, think and then do the RIGHT thing. You have a great chance to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

Sonos has placed so much doubt in me as a customer, I’m not sure if I trust them anymore. Can the company survive on this new approach? So maybe buying more Sonos in the future will be a bad investment? As for most of us, this has opened our eyes and we’re looking at what the market is offering and in 2020, there are a lot more options than when I jumped in to Sonos and at a price that is very attractive.

One more chance Sonos, just one more and you have to hit the nail on the head. It’s amazing how one week can totally change one’s perspective on a company that was viewed so positively and had a brand loyalty that others would die for. 

You know what to do. So as Nike says. JUST DO IT!

 

Act in haste, repent at leisure.
S
Userlevel 5
Badge +3

Sonos to customers “ just to let you know pretty soon your system is f**ked “

customers to Sonos “ wtf how is this happening it’s unacceptable “

Sonos to customers “ yeah sorry we heard you but don’t worry we’ll let you know in may just how f**ked your system is”

 

pretty much sums up the whole debacle 

N

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

That is the right path in the relationship with the client. I am glad to know that the change will not be as they said before. I was already seeing other providers and technologies.

N

That is the right path in the relationship with the client. I am glad to know that the change will not be as they said before. I was already seeing other providers and technologies.

C

What an unfortunate end to a great relationship.   I cannot imagine spending another dime on Sonos, that they’re so quick to abandon their products and their customers, nor will I recommend it to any of my clients.    

J
Userlevel 5
Badge +9

I upgraded and recycled 6 ZP100 Amps to the latest Amp late December before Christmas.

5 Sonos Amps and a new Move. To the tune of over 2K even with the discount.

I am now told that the 3 remaining Connect:Amps and 2 Play5 Gen1s are on the list.

I dont expect the legacy items to update any further but I do expect them to be able to play and group with my newer models. From the wording I keep seeing I am getting very leary.

Several of the responses say they will work as they do now but never quite say they will group/play with the newer hardware.

Just realized my 45 day return is coming up in about 7 days. Really thinking hard about returning and just keeping everything legacy because of this.

So Sonos, you are about to lose a recent 6 item purchase and any future purchases.

If i dont get a response this week making me feel assured my total system will work the way it does today you may be losing a existing sell and any future sales.

Your wording is always legacy will work the same and new ones update. But never the total system will work together with grouping and streaming. I dont want two systems! That's not why I have Sonos. I have it for Whole Home Audio! over 15 zones, 20 devices.

I would be upgrading in the future just like i did at Christmas but not under this kind of vision.

 

 

Playbar(2) Sub(1) Play:5(2) Play:3(6) Play:1(5) Connect:AMP(3) Sonos:AMP(5) Move(1)
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