Trade up scheme

Thanks for advice everyone. Am going to keep current stuff and fingers crossed they don't make it redundant ...

….. waits with bated breath….

Take control of your own system - lock it down now :-)

The cost, both environment and financial, of designing a play:1/Sonos One hybrid device, manage the program, ship it to a location to be retrofitted (currenly, the speakers are made in China), do the work, test it out, ship it back to the owner,,,will surely be more than the cost a brand new Sonos One.

Yes, I think that’ pretty well understood, and an somewhat  understandable complaint.  However, I think most recently purchased devices won’t be traded in, since customers will likely be happy with what they have now and won’t feel like they get their money’s worth.  I am guessing Sonos didn’t distinguish between old and new Connect:amp’s either because it’s difficult to identify the age of products with customers or felt it would be too confusing for customers.

You’re comment on support is speculative, but surely the take some will have.  I think the used market will be effected in lots of ways both directions.  Less people will bother to sell the speakers since they have a trade in value, while some will want to buy a speaker for it’s trade in value.  Some will feel the risk of buying used is worth it since you can recover some value through trade in, while will feel it’s a doom product as you suggested.

I don’t see this as effect of the trade in program,  since the statement is true whether there was a trade in program or not.  The products are built with lower specs and are less likely to get newer features added because of this.

Sonos has stated several times that they want to incentives people to purchase the new speakers as part of the reason for this.  And you’re applying the 30% figure incorrectly.  It’s 30% off of whatever product you buy, not 30% off the value of the product you’re selling.  That means the dollar value varies from $54 to $210 depending on what you purchase. So if you’re trading in a $400 Connect for a $700 playbar, you’re getting over 50% of your money back essentially.  So in regardless to what you can charge second hand, it’s a matter of what the speaker is worth for use itself or whatever the buyer intends to trade it in for.

Besides the fact that you don’t have to trade in your old gear at all, you don’t need to trade in for the current version of your product.  You could trade in a Connect for a Sonos One if you wish, not the same at all.   Disallowing stacking is a very reasonable measure for Sonos.  They aren’t trying to lose money with this program.  I don’t know what their margins are, but I would guess 60% off would be at a loss.

Again, the value of the trade in is 30% off a new item, not the original cost of what you are trading in.  If you want to buy a Connect in that’s currently 20% for example ($280?), knowing that you can trade it in for 30% off a Port or any other Sonos device later on, that’s an option. 

None of the speakers have been removed yet.  I get why people think the end is coming based on this, but if there is an end,  it will come with or without this trade up program.  Personally, I’m not all that worried.

I was thinking a ‘justification’ for some to replace older devices with newer Amps maybe idle power usage, but surprised that some of the newer devices appear to use more power when idle than the older devices:

eg Connect:Amp (ZP120) vs Amp

https://support.sonos.com/s/article/256?language=en_US

Hey andrewCBR, I believe I posted this above before, but in case you missed it, the official statement I can share is that we are committed to supporting all Sonos products for as long as we are able. This program is designed so that people who are interested in getting newer products while not needing to keep their older ones can recycle them in exchange for a discount. We’ve never had something like this before, and wanted to try and introduce an upgrade program so that our long time customers can enjoy the best of Sonos with the newest products. We wanted to start with just a few of our oldest models, which is why these ones were selected.

This is definitely a good point, as to the new device using more power, it’s really just in the case of the Amp vs Connect:Amp (argueable with the Play:1 to Sonos One gen1 though the gen2 uses less power). I don’t know specifically, but I think the increased power use on the Amp is due to some of the extra features it has over the Connect:Amp. It has to factor in the HDMI-ARC and 5GHz wireless in some setups on the average idle power use.

What’s going to happen is we’ll see these ‘bricked’ units being sold through 3rd-party channels, like Ebay etc…  The market will be flooded with ‘as-is, for parts or repair’ units that have nothing physically wrong with them, but cannot be used.   Unsuspecting buyers (who may have had previous experience buying such units and getting them to work) will be flooding Sonos tech support only to find out their serial number has been permanently blacklisted.   Used Sonos has an unusually high resale value (which points to how much people really enjoy these products!)    Tanking that market will not necessarily result in more sales of new units for them, IMO...

Big thumbs down to Sonos. You guys have just gone way down in my opinion.  I have joined this forum just to make this point.

Booooooooo - you suck.

I own 4 Sonoses and love the products and experience. I used to think the company was decent too. But now I just think you’re just wanting to line your pockets and F the environmental impact. 

Too bad you feel that way. IMO all the negative comments surrounding the Trade Up program are really getting ridiculous. 

First of all Sonos is not requiring that you Trade-up your products. Do it if you like or don’t...it's a CHOICE.

Basically, the complaints about “bricking” a working product comes down to personal greed. You want the 30% discount; but you want it for FREE!  So essentially you want to double dip...get the 30% off new Sonos and in some cases sell your old Sonos.

I’m not against selling older Sonos...heck...I sell my Sonos all the time in order to offset the cost of new. I recently sold two Play 3’s and a Connect to offset the cost of two Move’s and a Port, respectively. I even sold a black sub to offset the cost of a white sub.

I have a Playbar in my bedroom. If Sonos were to offer me 30% off to upgrade to a new improved Playbar in exchange for my current one; I’d go for it (budget permitting). I can only use one Playbar at a time. Given the age of the Playbar $210 (30% of $ 699) is about what it’s worth on the open market. So IMO...Great Deal!

As far as Sonos announcing they will discontinue support for “X” product. Do you really expect Sonos to support legacy products forever? Let’s get real people.  You also need to understand that dis-continuing support for a Sonos speaker doesn’t mean it will cease to work. Just do the following:

• Turn off cellular for your setup device to sever contact with the internet
• Disconnect your router from the internet
• Continue using Wi-Fi on both devices.

Now that you have “walled –off” your Sonos from the outside world; continue using it until the circuit boards burnout. 

Cheers!

Edit: Really...You  your own post   That’s   and   at the same time.

Most older SONOS gear is worth more than the 30% discount. So a better “trade up” is to liquidate current gear and buy the new gear. For instance; I can easily fetch $280 for a Connect Amp which will net me an additional $100. 

I would just like to know if this is going to be like the old remotes which they ended up bricking after a brief trade in period (which I missed). It would suck to come home from a long vacation and find all of my SONOS gear inoperable (12 units).

I still have audio equipment from the 60’s that works great. I don’t expect SONOS to “support” legacy gear forever but I also don’t expect it to stop working either. They could easily keep legacy equipment operable while only supporting new equipment. Not unlike old PC’s which still work fine they just don't support new OS’s or software.

Nobody knows, however I think expecting older units to operate and/or be upgraded in perpetuity is wishful thinking.  Eventually, they are going to be retired, and it would not surprise me if this trade up program is in preparation for that eventuality. 

What I don’t expect is the trade up program to end before the retirement takes place.

In the Save the CR100 thread, Sonos stated that one option to continue using the retired units was to never upgrade.  They didn’t recommend it, and it would eventually become incompatible with all but local library streaming, but it was an option.  

I tend to look at my Sonos equipment much as I look at my mobile phone. They’ve both got an OS, a certain amount of memory, and a CPU. At some point in time, it seems inevitable that one of these will no longer be able to support continuing development of the Sonos ecosystem.

In my opinion, I’m pretty impressed with Sonos. So far, the only devices that they’ve had to deprecate are non-speakers, i.e. the dock and the CR100. But not a single actual speaker. I don’t expect that to last forever, no more than I expect to run iOS 13.2 on my iPhone 1. But Sonos has shown more commitment to maintaining older equipment that they’ve made than any other tech company that I deal with on a regular basis.

Frankly, as a user, I tend to be more interested in the “new” features, than I am in locking down my system in order to maintain some particular device. But then again, I don’t think that those who do so are in any way “wrong” to do it. It’s a choice, that each of us have to make.  The challenge for many of us is trying to remember what things were like in software release “X” so that we can assist people. It’s probably an equal issue for Sonos support.

I’ve worked in software for many years. I’ve run in to many of the same challenges that Sonos faces, with issues with clients that don’t match the server, with maintaining support for operating systems that are no longer supported by their originators. I get where they face challenges. And I think they do a good job in meeting those challenges. But at the end of the day, in order to stay valid in the marketplace, Sonos needs to continue to evolve their software. Adding new features, adding new speakers. The only way that they make money is by selling new speakers. So they’ve got an obligation (now) to their shareholders and employees not to stand still, but continue to grow. Sometimes, that’s in opposition to some of the needs of us users.

Unfortunately, I’ve never found  a tech company that works to exactly what I want. I have to figure out what the best use is of what’s available out there on the market, and make it work for what I need it to. It’s exactly the same way with Sonos. Yes, I want them to change, in very specific ways to accommodate my needs. But I suspect, nay, know, that my personal needs are not those of the greater marketplace.

I’d love to compare Sonos to an older setup of a receiver with speakers. But I can’t. They’re entirely different technologies. That old system didn’t have any software, or internet connectivity built in. Each Sonos device is effectively a computer. And computers eventually get old. Not stop running, but just can’t be updated to the current “version” that gives you the latest and greatest features.

It’s good that you think you have infinite amounts of money. I work hard for my money; and If someone told me that my toaster wasn't going to work at some point in the future because there is a better toaster (a toaster toasts bread btw) then good for you and your money tree. For me? I want my gear to work into infinity at the level at which I bought it...

Ah shucks... I still have an email server running windows 2000 from 2001 on a PC I built for $500. It works great and serves the task of sending email as well today as it did over 20 years ago (an email server that got me a job by my resume always being at top of the queue). But hey, I am so glad you don't care about saving money and someday perhaps retirement. Good for you. Stop spewing your incredulous attitude towards those of us who like our hard earned money and the gear we bought with it.

My $15,000 6 burner Blue Star range will still work as good when I die (25K BTU Burners) as it does today. Is it too much to ask that SONOS honor that same ethic? Honestly, I don't give a shit about many of the new features.

(SIDEBAR)If SONOS told me they were going to remove the library limit on library tracks of IIRC 65k and 24BIT support  (I am at 1M+) then some “upgrade” to my 12 unit, wrong, 14 unit system might be worth it. (/SIDEBAR)

Until then, leave me alone and stop preaching false prophets about 10 years old equipment or give me your money. Etc. yada yada yada. FYI, I was probably SONOS customer number less than 5,000 and worked on their singular defining advertising moment: Their Super Bowl commercial in 2014. (sales doubled every every year from that point forward). TV advertising works. SURPRISE!

As a computer programer I had previously built my own whole house system using pirated Creston equipment. BTW, My Swedish made mixer (Ankarsrum) my grandmother gave to me when I was 8 (and was built in the late 40’s) still works as good today (better) than any Kitchen Aid that graces every American kitchen.

As owner/operators of the SONOS system we can DEMAND how stuff works or as you state “abandon” it. Not sure you are wrong with your assessment. This idea of making my money worthless...  I am not keen on it (e.g. trade up / bricking).

The lack of transparency from SONOS regarding the path forward tells me they are afraid and operating from a position of fear. I don’t own any SONOS stock anymore but I may consider shorting them based on their treatment of long time fans. I was a professional chef for 25 years and the thing I learned in that time is cloistering ideas makes you stale. Sharing ideas drives creativity and innovation. SONOS is operating from a place of fear (e.g. Look at Elon Musk sharing his e car patents). As a first adopter I am not happy with their current leading from behind strategy. The other thing is their apparent lack of 2way feedback from the community,. 

Hey man. I CONGREE completely. Per my Email Server analogy. Just let people run old OS instead of making it obsolete. I’d be fine for my purposes if the software stayed the same or provided ports to third party hacking but don't make my **** obsolete. All I personally need is access to my 1M+ local library and TuneIn. The four best radio stations in the world IMO ( FIP - out of Paris - #1 ration station in the world| WWOZ - Out of NOLA, CKUT - Out of Montreal, and the seminal BLK 100 out of NOLA (The Black Station)

“Personally, I would have more sympathy with them if they made it easier for people to run whichever versions of the software they choose, but that hasn’t happened, either. “

BINGO!!!! They are still acting like a startup IMO.

Not exactly true. Both the Ankarsrum mixer and the Kitchen Aid have had an endless number attachments made for them over the years. SONOS did a commendably good job of ‘future proofing” their gear but like a mixer made in the 1950’s it doesn't mean it can't perform the basic task prescribed to it then as to today. It’s just an insane way of thinking about loyalty IMO.

“Basically, the complaints about “bricking” a working product comes down to personal greed. You want the 30% discount; but you want it for FREE!  So essentially you want to double dip...get the 30% off new Sonos and in some cases sell your old Sonos.”

Not even close to what I’m worried about.  I don’t want bricking OR a discount - I want the stuff I have to just keep working with no unnecessary forced obsolescence.  Why is that sooooooo much to ask?  I’ve got a ZP100, a ZP80 and a Connect.  Even after a discount that’s more than a grand to replace if Sonos up decides to brick them in an update next year.  That’s what this coupon program has us worried about, not some perceived desire to double-dip. 

Geez, the fanboyism in this thread and forum is getting ridiculous.  All the same people that jump up and defend Sonos no matter what they do is nothing more than tribalism.  (This is from someone with 7 sonos players, not some one and done sh***tposter.)  We can love the product and still point out things that look like mistakes or can be seen as not consumer friendly.

As far as “fighting back” is concerned, I have better things to do with my time.  That may change when Sonos bricks one of my products, but I’m not going to put any effort into worrying about it now.  As always, YMMV.  Good luck in whatever you decide to do.  

The analogy of Sonos to a toaster doesn’t really make sense due to the obvious differences.  A toaster is effectively  a static device with minimal interaction with other technologies.  Sonos devices are hardware and software integrated with other devices.  Even without considering new features, a level of support needs/should be provided in order to make sure your devices continue to work as originally designed, in coordination with other devices and remaining secure.  It seems quite fair to me that support of device need to have a set life since there is no revenue from supporting older units. 

  Your windows server surely doesn’t have support from Mircosoft or any of the hardware manufacturers at this point.   What we seem to be assuming is that Sonos is going to drop support of older speakers (which they have not done or said they will do) and will update the software so that these device can’t be used any more (which they have done or said they will do).  The whole argument is based on speculation.  Yes, the trade up program  and Sonos history with the CR100 and dock are fueling these assumptions, but we do not know at this point.

I personally don’t mind my older units going away, not because I have infinite money or anything like that.  I’ve appreciated Sonos new features and have upgraded accordingly when I thought it was good value to me.  I’m sure that’s viewed by some as being unwise with my money, but to each their own.  So I’m not really at risk.  If I were though, my level of worry about this would not be that high.  I’d read the suggestions on how to block upgrades and be prepared to implement them when the time comes.

I don’t get the comments in bold.