End of Software Support - Clarifications

Dear Mr Spence

Can you please expand on your response to the backlash.  Are you guaranteeing that my old and new SONOS products will continue to work together?  All I want is to use my SONOS system exactly like I did before you changed everything in 2017.  That means:

• no restrictive login,
• no monitoring and profiling of my music and radio stations,
• respect my privacy, and
• I don’t want or need Alexa.

For the participants on this forum, can I suggest that you go and read SONOS’s privacy policy and then ask why does SONOS need to know what music I am playing, where I am playing it (room and city) and why do you need to share that with everyone?

In 2017 SONOS changed its terms of use, which were forced on us, to allow it to introduce the account login; which as we can all see now is a way of controlling our units. 

The argument that legacy devices do not have enough computing power is not true - it worked perfectly fine prior to 2017 and that’s all I want.  If you strip out all the new “features” added since 2017 then it should work just fine.

By all means fork your user experience into a system with basic features that just works as it did brilliantly prior to 2017 (simple streaming) or the new disposable world with lots of gimmicks.

I own:

2 connect:AMPS (2016), play:3 (2015), play:1 (2016), play:5 (2017), 2 Beams (2019).

Within 5 years of purchase, the purpose and structure of my networked home sound system is now at risk, possibly already compromised, needing replacement of 2 connect:amps at a cost after discount of about £900. The cause is the producer of the products: SONOS itself.

I understand you are a business that seeks to make a profit and you have adopted a business strategy. Please understand that I am a consumer and I seek to not permit sunk cost into products I will not be able to effectively consume over a reasonable period.

I cannot in good conscience or within the context of a sound risk management framework, purchase any further SONOS products. 

From latest 10k...” We may choose to discontinue support for older versions of our products, resulting in customer dissatisfaction that could negatively affect our business and operating results.
We have historically maintained, and we believe our customers may expect, extensive backward compatibility for our older products and the software that supports them, allowing older products to continue to benefit from new software updates. We expect that in the near term, this backward compatibility will no longer be practical or cost-effective, and we may decrease or discontinue service for our older products. If we no longer provide extensive backward capability for our products, we may damage our relationship with our existing customers, as well as our reputation, brand loyalty and ability to attract new customers.
For these reasons, any decision to decrease or discontinue backward capability may decrease sales and adversely affect our business, operating results and financial condition.”

Well they got that right,

I would argue this statement was misleading the market because I refuse to believe they haven’t been planning this since before November when this was published. If I had bought shares at any time since they started the trade up programme I would consider myself well and truly conned.

I raised a query with Sonos support when I received the email about this and was initially told that the solution was essentially to buy a second house for my legacy products (!!!) so I’m glad that there are at least signs that someone has realised this announcement was a PR disaster of epic proportions.

I cannot see any reason, other than laziness, that old and new products can’t coexist and while I’m prepared to accept that the old ones might not pick up new features I certainly didn’t expect to be held to ransom to either (a) upgrade and pay Sonos more money or (b) kill of all my new products as well which is essentially what the initial statement said.

Whether I ever buy a new Sonos product again will depend entirely on how they handle this shambles.

Well said it worked perfectly well back then the sound is no different to what it was so Sonos just leave it alone and let the folks who loved your products enjoy them we putyou where you are today 

Shocking. I have been buying several Sonos products over time, I started with a Connet:Amp (and stupidly gave away a traditional high end amplifier thinking I had bought the product of the future!) It turns out that my Connect:Amp is now going to be obsolete… Is that a joke? Now I own several Sonos products, various Play1s, Play 5, Sub, beam… about 12. I spent on Sonos so much more than any other previous sound system (owned those and have delivered for decades - as one would expect from any decent product… I like to use all my products, old and new, together ie grouped. This news of separating legacy products from newer ones is kick in the teeth.

Sonos, you have now lost my loyalty. I have been your advocate. I converted many friends to Sonos - I will be embarrassed when I see them now…. I will no longer buy anything from Sonos. Your bribe of 30% off on a new product is an insult. I only want my products to work (together) as I was promised when I bought them - whenever that might have been. If your products are obsolete you should take them back and replace them or offer a refund. You will never get a single penny from me. I will start looking for an alternative - many something old fashionably reliable.

I am so angry I could go on. Betrayal. A con. Theft....

Obviously I will not buying any more Sonos products, now I know that modern products might be legacy tomorrow. can anyone suggest an alternative system where I am unlikely to be so shabbily treated?

Hmm.  I was wondering when the other shoe would drop?

I was one of the many affected by the discontinuation of the Dock, which faithfully played music from legacy 30-pin interface iPods, notably in my case the last generation of full iPod.  There hasn’t been a stored file audio player that came close to that device, and the Dock was a brilliant way to access and control the iPod from Sonos software to broadcast music on an installed Sonos system.

Much like this original announcement, Dock users were bluntly told that the Dock would be bricked (well in this instance the “legacy” devices wouldn’t be bricked, they would just fade away and become irrelevant or non-interoperable), would disappear from our systems and that was that.  The impression in the threads that I wrote in at the time from Sonos staff seemed to be indignation that we were still out there using those old, arcane, iPods for music playback and that since Apple had long since abandoned 30-pin connectors, we shouldn’t be using these devices anymore.  We weren’t even offered a discount code or a peace offering.  And one day the Dock was gone.

There was much comment in the community about the Dock being bricked, but were were told the same line, the device had reached the limits of its ability to be supported, at least in terms of software support, and that it was being written off entirely.  However, there were far fewer Dock users, so there was no CEO response and no “promise” of some kind of middle ground, even if it wasn’t ideal.  We were bluntly told that it would continue to operate as a charger for any iPod in the dock.  One Sonos staffer managing the boards even told users that we could just run an aux cable from the headphone jack to the back of the Play:5 and use it that way.  Of course, that completely defeats the point of having Sonos control over the iPod and being able to manage in from anywhere in your home.  But I digress.

I'm not so ignorant to not acknowledge that hardware eventually becomes overwhelmed with software progress.  I’m writing this on a 10 year old iMac, and frankly, it is starting to show its age.  On the other hand, Apple hasn’t reached out and bricked it, nor have they come out and openly told me that your device is going to be so severely marginalized that it might as well be bricked.

Unlike a personal computer, where most folks think getting 5 years out of a device is pretty darn good, audiophile speaker equipment is considered something that is good enough that it could, potentially, be passed along to new generations.  Sonos has to determine how they future-proof their devices to be just as long lasting as those Bose 901s that somebody purchased 30 or more years ago and keep passing down from generation to generation.  What is Sonos’s approach to keep “legacy” hardware going.  Is it going to be tighter software development, middle-ware that operates from the Sonos controller software?  How about using the Boost as a mediator that manages old and new devices?

However Sonos tries to resolve this issue; however they try to find a way forward, the viewpoint that high end speaker setups are anywhere close to disposable is a non-starter with Sonos purchasers.  Most of us have purchased Sonos instead of well known or proven audio brands because we wanted quality sound reproduction in addition to wireless, whole home audio, and nearly brainless setup.  We all paid a premium for quality audio hardware with attention to detail in terms of software and deployment, and that is an unwritten contract which basically binds Sonos to their legacy hardware for a much longer time period than 20 years; arguably closer to 50 years.

Good luck Sonos team.  I certainly hope that you determine a “way forward” which looks a lot more like the lifespan of a good set of Bose 901s than the lifespan of a bluetooth speaker you picked up at a comicon.

My first Amazon review went live this morning…

Too late. I think it`s an unbelievable behavior.

I will now sell my 18 Sonos products including my “4 OLD Play 5” via ebay-kleineanzeigen.de even if I will get really little money after the announcement - thank you Sonos. You definitely los a customer for ever. 

I already ordered a completely new system from Teufel/Raumfeld.

I have been a loyal customer nearly from the first day. Initially the reason to choose Sonos was that it simply worked perfectly “out of the box”. As time went by the problems came. From year to year the app became worse and I experience increasing connections problems.

Sonos threw away the market leader position and with the last announcement kicked the cusomers in the ass.

Frank  

I’ve been a customer of Sonos products for 15 years but I find this announcement outrageous. I  only bought a Play 5 4 years ago (2017 in fact, so how does that sit with the 5 year promise even?), so that was a waste of £500. 

As others have posted, if they are doing this now, why would you buy new products at significant cost with this hanging over you?

I’m going to sell all of my players to avoid this risk and switch.  I have also updated my Amazon reviews from 5* to 1* to reflect this decision by Sonos. 

Sonos had my loyalty.  They don’t anymore.

I’ve hesitated for a week before posting, just to let the red mist pass, I’ve reflected on the reassurances given by Patrick Spence, reviewed the wording, the detail of the offer and with a calm considered train of thought, I can say that I don’t think a company has ever broken my trust, disappointed me, or angered me to such an extent with a single action ever before.

I’d almost describe it as feeling broken hearted, jilted by a brand I trusted, admired and was on the brink of investing in further.  Over the years I’ve recommended Sonos to countless friends, helped family setup their speakers and proudly extolled the quality and capability of the product (despite the App consistently being flakey).  I dread the moment a family member calls to me to tell me they’ve got the obsolescence email.

When I first read the the announcement, frankly, it read like a “f*ck you, consumer” and feels pretty much the same several days later.

• So no, Sonos, I will not be taking you up on your 30% “offer”.  It’s offensive on environmental, financial and common sense grounds
• I will no longer recommend you to friends or family and instead share with them my utter dismay and disappointment
• I certainly will not be investing in any more speakers

And when you cease to support my £000’s of perfectly working hardware and through software incompatibility force them into needless obsolescence, I will not replace them with another Sonos.  That you anticipated I might do, was an incredible act of arrogance.

You have broken the trust and confidence and make me plan a non-Sonos household.  I hope you find a way to repair the damage, but you’ve really given yourselves a challenge.

@Ryan S, or anyone at Sonos reading this: regarding the blog post “A letter from our CEO”, it appears something has been lost in translation:

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

Unless this was worded exceptionally badly, it implies two separate zones for old and new.

A solution that doesn’t allow old Sonos products to work with new is not a solution. I’ve explained this in detail already alongside other problems that your CEO hasn’t attempted to address. In the hope that a simpler message is more likely to be understood, let me say it plainly:

I will not buy new Sonos products that don’t work with my old Sonos products as one multi-room system.

From what i have read, he was in charge when Blackberry got “legacied”…

How a guy that ran a succesful phone manufacturer into the ground is put in charge of any company that wants to survive is beyond me.

Shocking. I have been buying several Sonos products over time, I started with a Connet:Amp (and stupidly gave away a traditional high end amplifier thinking I had bought the product of the future!) It turns out that my Connect:Amp is now going to be obsolete… Is that a joke? Now I own several Sonos products, various Play1s, Play 5, Sub, beam… about 12. I spent on Sonos so much more than any other previous sound system (owned those and have delivered for decades - as one would expect from any decent product… I like to use all my products, old and new, together ie grouped. This news of separating legacy products from newer ones is kick in the teeth.

Sonos, you have now lost my loyalty. I have been your advocate. I converted many friends to Sonos - I will be embarrassed when I see them now…. I will no longer buy anything from Sonos. Your bribe of 30% off on a new product is an insult. I only want my products to work (together) as I was promised when I bought them - whenever that might have been. If your products are obsolete you should take them back and replace them or offer a refund. You will never get a single penny from me. I will start looking for an alternative - many something old fashionably reliable.

I am so angry I could go on. Betrayal. A con. Theft....

All I want is to use all of my Sonos speakers together and to keep adding new speakers. If that can’t happen then I won’t buy more Sonos speakers. It’s as simple as that.

I get that older products can’t receive newer updates, but surely there’s a technical way around allowing legacy speakers to co-exist with newer speakers whilst providing latest updates to newer speakers. For all the software updates that have been applied over the years, the fundamentals haven’t changed - the speakers play music from a source and group rooms together. They have been doing that for nearly 15 years already within the memory constranints of the hardware.

I don’t believe this a technical decision. it’s all about money.

How do you know that? It is a direct contradiction of Sonos policy of five years of support after the product is no longer sold.

I agree, and i will not buy any product that can not coexist with my old system, while the “new” units still receive updates.

I dont want to be held back with regards to software on my speakers, just because one is not being updated.

Just like i would be furious if microsoft would not give me feature and security updates on my windows 10 laptop, because it detected that i have a windows 7 desktop computer on the same network.

Dear @sonos,

I just want to inform you that my support to @sonos has reached end of life and you will no longer be supported. However I offer you to buy back all my Sonos hardware with a 35% discount.

You can of cause continue to co-exist as a legacy supplier in the slow lane next to your supported competitors in the fast lane.

#SonosBoycott #Sonosgate #Sonos

Kind regards,

Michael

Actually, having seen the response from Patrick Spence, one thing is cleared up. He didn’t just make a mistake at the start of the week, it wasn’t a blunder by some junior marketing person. He really doesn’t care a jot about his customers.

I am wondering if there’s any way to let Sonos shareholders know that I will consider buying Sonos products again the day after he quits.

I will report SONOS to UK trading standards. The kit I bought is clearly not fit for purpose. 

Sonos Amp £599

yamaha wxa 50 £379

Amp with 30% 419

this was just a quick look it's a no brainier for me

Looking at the above, I bet there would be a way to code a Sonos One Gen 2 to act as a distribution point (Legacy Hub)  to sever "Legacy" units with a stream, all they have to do is play the stream (not taxing at all).

No money in it though, so carry on shafting the customers..

The idea of "splitting" your eco system in two which was sold from the word go as a "Whole Home Solution" beggars belief..

Just absolutely shocking, I feel sorry for all those affected already and I'm sure my Playbar/ Play:1s and Play:3 are not long for the chopping block.

Some custom operating system (preferably Open Source) will be the way to go and I'm sure a group will come up with something along those lines. Surely we own the hardware and it's ours to donas we please with..

The CEO talks of "great products in the pipeline".

Is he for real?

Most existing customers won't be touching any more Sonos products. New customers will Google "Sonos" and read about the debacle he's created and buy something else.

For "pipeline", I'd read "drain".

I hope his Board has his arse to the fire for the way he's trashed a great brand.

Don’t just post here guys… 

ask questions on Amazon like ‘when will this be obsolescent, like Amos just made the rest of my kit?’

leve reviews on big retailer sites warning potential purchasers to be wary

i am doing this each time I have a few spare minutes.…

it is helping me deal with my anger as I am furious… I don’t want to be forced into having first 2 and then what 3? 4? Zones in my all zone household wide music system…! 

make them change this...