We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer.
Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.
Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.
After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features.
Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.
We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features.
Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features.
You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.
Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade.
We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.
Update 2/22: A message from our CEO
We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:
First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.
Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.
While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.
Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.
If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.
Patrick Spence CEO, Sonos
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My main concern, and I apologize if it’s already been asked - how much longer until the sub and playbar are also killed off? I believe they’ve been out since 2012, so can we expect them to disappear in 2022?
This is what unfortunately happens when a company no longer places customers first, as they are now legally required to put shareholders first. I’ve spent thousands on Sonos equipment and recommended it to everyone I know. I am regretting both at this point.
I would urge Sonos to figure out a way to keep the legacy devices alive. If you’re working on playing flac or other HD audio that the older devices can’t handle, perhaps they can stream a lower bitrate? There has to be a better solution than alienating essentially your entire customer base - those who have 10 year old products that work well today, and those who bought a 5.1 setup yesterday and now question if it will be supported in 2 years.
My wife’s reaction to this was a pragmatic ‘we’ve had great value from your Sonos purchases over the years, what’s the cost for upgrading and how soon shall we do it?’. To be fair we’re lucky enough that replacing in my case 3 components wouldn’t break the bank and she’s right I’ve had a lot of use from those purchases.
As I’ve said elsewhere my worry isn’t really a Sonos policy of 5 years support from end of manufacture, its that this kills Sonos and noone gets any support.
It’s not just the £2000 I spent on my own speakers, it’s the friends who bought the speakers on my recommendation.
From now on I’ll buy separates and stream straight from my phone. I’ll recommend that they do the same.
Everything I has already been said by others but I want to add a post to this because the numbers matter when a company runs analytics on consumer response.
Sonos, please consider this to be one more post clarifying that I will never buy another Sonos product again, your “trade up” program is a joke, and I’m deeply disappointed that the money I spent on what I thought was a quality product has clearly been wasted. In the era of a Climate Crisis, the environmental impact of deciding to turn perfectly good audio devices into a mountain of e-waste is unspeakably irresponsible.
Sonos, you have lost track of what people were buying your product for. It was to hear good music accessed in a way that was convenient and centralized. I can do that today and you’re telling me I won’t be able to do that tomorrow. I don’t really care what new features you bring in because I don’t need them. I need my system to do exactly what it has been doing since the day I paid for it.
Hello Everyone:
I just joined this community. Ironically, before reading all your comments, I sent the same grievances in and email to the president of Sonos 2 days ago asking for a response. Crickets.
Now that I’ve read the overwhelming response from y’all, I’m guessing he’s hiding under his desk.
Sonos:
The jury has spoken…. please fix this grievous error.
I’d like to have a question answered. If the ability to upgrade existing systems is preventing Sonos from bringing new features to the market in their new components why didn’t this prevent them from adding voice assistants in “modern” components?
Clearly my “legacy” components don’t have microphones nor do some of the newer components (e.g. Port). Sonos has demonstrated an ablilty to have feature sets that match the technical abilities of various components but it would appear that they simply have chosen to drop support for older hardware.
I use my system to play my own music, set alarms and to listen to Radio using TuneIn and have little interest in music streaming services. If I’m honest I find the Play 1s to be virtually as good as the Play 5s in terms of the sound quality but the best thing about the 5s is the line-in function and headphone socket, features that I’ve found very useful but which were not incorporated into the less expensive speakers.
Yesterday’s e mail from Sonos has now basically informed me that the bulk of my system will no longer be supported from May 2020 and that if I continue to use it in combination with my Play 1s and Beam they too will be unable to receive updates meaning that over time the entire system will lose some functionality.
I simply cannot afford to replace my entire Sonos system so my knee-jerk reaction is to list the Beam on Ebay whilst it’s still new enough to achieve a sale price roughly equal to what I paid for it and to then allow my system to run until it fails and, in the meantime research what alternatives are available for someone, like me, who simply wants to listen to my CD collection.
I will however wait until May to see what the as yet unannounced work-around to run legacy speakers on a separate Sonos system involves.
My faith in Sonos right now is shattered. Whilst I understand that nothing lasts forever I don’t think it unreasonable to expect very, very expensive equipment that can still work as it was initially intended to should no longer be updatable purely because the developers want their customers to alter their listening habits. So Sonos please tell me why I should even consider buying more of your products or recommend them to others.
In comparison to many other concerned Sonos owners I am quite fortunate as my only legacy products are 3 x Play 5s + Bridge, all now over 7 years old. Unlike later models these (Gen1) 5s have “line in” functionality through which they can be hooked up to any device with a headphone socket and then used as standalone speakers for TVs, mp3 players, CD players, Tablets etc. I occasionally deliver music presentations to small groups of people and take one of my Play 5s to the venue where I connect it to my iPad from where I can then play the appropriate music.
Now I’m not too technically minded so can anyone say whether or not they think that function will or will not require further updates? If they will continue to work indefinitely in that capacity then, although far from fulfilling the entire range of functions for which they were designed and sold to me, there will still be a use to which they can be put. This in itself might be sufficient reason for some owners to hesitate before considering the dreaded ‘recycle mode’. I have ‘retired’ TVs in 3 bedrooms that would benefit from better sound - just a thought.
I said in my earlier post that to me the difference in sound quality between my Play 5s and Play 1s is barely discernible but I know that as an ‘older’ person that is more likely to be down to my hearing. However, that being the case if, and at the moment it’s a big ‘if’, I do eventually decide to replace my Play 5s with Sonos equipment it will be with the significantly cheaper “1s” and they will be bought from where (and when) the price is right - Black Friday, or Jan sales (maybe even cheaper than a 30% trade up discount). By their latest proposal Sonos now seem to be suggesting to their customers that their products are no longer investments in a system that can be built upon but disposables with an anticipated lifespan of just 5 years or so, in which case why buy the expensive speakers if the cheaper ones do the job just as well? Maybe even the IKEA Symfonisk speakers will suffice, they have been getting quite good reviews.
Of course Sonos, I would prefer a solution that would allow me to continue using my legacy speakers, until they reach their natural end, for the purpose I bought them, streaming my locally stored music collection and Radio stations throughout my home, nothing more, nothing less.
You should presumably be able to do what you describe. Usinge line in and as separate systems. Maybe even group those legacy speakers and stream locally stored music.
But you won't be able to group with newer speakers if you want the latest features on those. And over time you will probably not be able to stream radio from TuneIn or use other streaming services.
I am obviously not going to throw away all my equipment now but when it eventually does not work any more I will certainly not replace it with Sonos gear.
I could see if you guys were offering upgrades that enabled hires audio support or some sort of feature that was above what my Amp and connect do now, but as I see it you repackaged both of them and slapped a bigger price tag and then planned to kill what I have to force me to buy these new repackaged products.
I ask that Sonos figure out a way to retract this horrible policy stance and not alienate your customer base and instead release products that inspire me to upgrade by my own choice not by gun point.
I’ve read this thread with great interest as I am another very disgruntled (and now former) Sonos customer. I have three Play 5s, one of which I bought as recently as May 2015. This will become obsolete exactly four years after purchase. How is that sustainable or a positive customer experience?
I also have four Sonos Play 1s, some of which were bought quite recently and I wonder how long it will be before they become ‘legacy’.
My next Sonos purchase was going to be a beam and sub but that will definitely not happen.
Why would any sensible person now purchase Sonos equipment knowing they could become legacy within a few years? The 30% trade up is derisory. My brand loyalty built up over many years has now disappeared overnight.
I feel very strongly that in these times of climate emergency and a need for society to be more resource efficient and sustainable Sonos should be truly ashamed of themselves.
If Sonos included a 45% OFF coupon with each 30% device bricking, I might be down to upgrade all my old speakers. Two play 5 trade ins would return 300 dollars, two new play 5s at 45% off would be 550. I’ll buy two for 250 provided there is some guarantee about a future sunset date. I really am paranoid about the subs and playbars I own now.
My main concern, and I apologize if it’s already been asked - how much longer until the sub and playbar are also killed off? I believe they’ve been out since 2012, so can we expect them to disappear in 2022?
@macallan18, our commitment is to support products with software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting for longer. You can still purchase from us the same Sub and Playbar that were introduced a while back. And even if they do move to legacy at some point in the distance, they’ll continue working as they currently do, but without software updates. Even if software requirements move beyond their hardware capabilites, they’ll keep on playing your TV input until the hardware breaks.
So it sounds like we all face a dilemma - REspend the THOUSANDS of dollars we all have spent investing in quality Sonos hardware, or have our network exposed to hackers since Sonos will discontinue software updates (and therefore presumably security updates). I’ve been loyal to Sonos products for a decade-plus now, seems like it’s time to reconsider that. A measly 30% off isn’t going to fix this for me.
I am also worried how long it will be before my 'non legacy' equipment becomes obsolete? I spent a lot more money than I could afford on a system that would last a lifetime and be almost impossible to blow up etc etc etc if I had even the slightest suspicion that Sonos customers would be treated this way I would definitely have spent my very hard earned cash on a different company, how this must look to new customers when there are so many existing and up and coming home audio systems on the market now?
The lack of concern for the environment is very telling.
Thousands of pounds on my own system and tens of thousands for client installations over the last 15 years. I suspect I will be getting a few calls from clients as to why their entire installation is now redundant. Embarrassing to say the least!
I’ll be jacking in my personal Sonos altogether and won’t be recommending it to any clients in the future! Seems pointless to continue down the inevitable path you are clearly laying. Shame Sonos. Sadly I suspect your company will be obsolete in the not too distant future. I’m going on eBay to look for some 30 year old amps that will doubtless last another 30 years. Adios!
My main concern, and I apologize if it’s already been asked - how much longer until the sub and playbar are also killed off? I believe they’ve been out since 2012, so can we expect them to disappear in 2022?
@macallan18, our commitment is to support products with software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting for longer.
Retailers were evidently selling older, deprecated Connects and Connect:Amps long after 2015.
Regardless, though, five years is a laughable support window for audio equipment. Maybe folks who bought one or two speakers would live with this, but customers who invested in Sonos and filled their homes with it will never buy from you again.
I sent a invitation to CEO to comment on how he felt about screwing over loyal sonos customers, guess what.......not even an automated brush off reply.....guess that says it all.
I think CEO works for another company that is looking for SONOS to fail.
Disappointed.
The flood has started… too late to sell your soon to be trashed Sonos stuff. Screen shot from Gumtree. I was actually there looking to buy some old amps to hook up an alternative streming device into and satrted seeing Sonos components, so I did a quick search for Sonos UK and there are tons of them, I bet few if any people mention their very limited lifespan.
So over the years i have bought 9 devices.
1 Play 5 (Gen 1)
3 Play 3
4 Play 1
1 Playbar
Now you want to piss all over me by discontinuing the Play 5, right when i was about to buy a SUB to complement the Playbar and 2 of the Play 1’s (Rear channel for sorround), and a new “1” for a hobby room.
Well guess what...Those $1000+ you can keep waiting for, because they will NOT be spent now.
Also, in the future i will actively warn people not to buy Sonos, as it is far to risky. The Play 3’s that i have in each kids room, was only released 2 years after the Play 5 so i expect them to be discontinued in 2 years, followed by the playbar in 3 and the ones in 4 years.
So instead of investing in more sonos equipment i will now focus on migrating away from the sonos ecosystem instead of embarking on an endless voyage, filled with units needing replacement before they are worn out.
I bet you factored all the angry existing costumers into your calculations, but i dont really think you know how many people that has Sonos, has it because they saw it at friends houses and so on.
So instead of getting new costumers from word of mouth, you will have the same mouths, not advertise your products but rather warn people to stay away.
This is certainly going to cost you a lot of older costumers and also make quite a dent in the new costumer base, as lots of them come from word of mouth from existing costumers.
Interesting that with all the furore ongoing there’s no hint of crisis management PR getting involved. Leaves the impression that this reaction has been factored in and doesn’t require any additional handling.
It seems clear from the SEC filing that they were expecting considerable flak about this announcement, and have factored it in to their business plan. So I think that it’s just a case of them being fully prepared to lose a few legacy customers - who are no longer buying much anyway….
it may have been factored in but I’m fairly sure not at this level, and now the media outlets are starting to show interest this is rather embarrassing for sonos
So far, maybe a couple of thousand disgruntled people - but how many customers do they actually have?
They have 9m devices (not customers)
37% of sales come from existing customers. My guess is that those customers enthuse about the product and drive more sales.
I am surprised the share price has not tanked.
My main concern, and I apologize if it’s already been asked - how much longer until the sub and playbar are also killed off? I believe they’ve been out since 2012, so can we expect them to disappear in 2022?
@macallan18, our commitment is to support products with software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting for longer. You can still purchase from us the same Sub and Playbar that were introduced a while back. And even if they do move to legacy at some point in the distance, they’ll continue working as they currently do, but without software updates. Even if software requirements move beyond their hardware capabilites, they’ll keep on playing your TV input until the hardware breaks.
I appreciate that as I don’t think I’d seen it written anywhere before. I will say this in defense of this action by Sonos, and I may be the only one who isn’t an employee to offer a defense: Your customers are probably a lot like me. Loved the product, recommended it, and over time filled the house with it. If I could trade all my legacy products for the latest and greatest I’m sure we all would, but frankly the old ones sound great and work fine. The problem for Sonos and the shareholders is I have no reason or desire to buy anything else, and their job is to squeeze as much money out of each quarter as possible. And prior to this announcement, most of us were probably in the same boat.
Sonos did a horrible job communicating this, implementing this, and reading how their customers would react. The 30% trade in was foolish to begin with, as 40-50% is (was) pretty easy to get on ebay or craigslist. I’d recommend tacking on a 45% off coupon in addition to the 30% trade in if you actually want to get these items out of the environments and keep your customers happy. Even better, figure out a way to keep the legacy items properly working with the new ones. I don’t expect HD audio on a “connect: 5”. I don’t care about any voice support. Play, pause, volume, skip track, back track, queue management and very basic spotify/other integration (add song to playlist, etc) should be trivial no matter what Spotify does with their API. At the very least, make it so this functionality is available so long as you have ONE modern sonos speaker in your setup!
Go read twitter, reddit, this forum, avs, anywhere people talk about sonos. You went from having customer loyalty that was the envy of everyone this side of Apple to being hated by the same people who put you where you are. It isn’t too late to admit a mistake and back track. My suggestions are good ones, I’m sure others in this too long to read thread have some great ones, and I suggest you take them and put a muzzle on whoever thought of this idea.
I am also worried how long it will be before my 'non legacy' equipment becomes obsolete? I spent a lot more money than I could afford on a system that would last a lifetime and be almost impossible to blow up etc etc etc if I had even the slightest suspicion that Sonos customers would be treated this way I would definitely have spent my very hard earned cash on a different company, how this must look to new customers when there are so many existing and up and coming home audio systems on the market now?
The lack of concern for the environment is very telling.
Good point, as a matter of fact. I had talked to a few co-workers this morning who Sonos I assume is trying to target as a new customer.
This coworker bought the beam and was going to buy another sonos speaker for his bedroom but after he heard the news, he was like uhhh I am fine with a google mini instead if the premium I’m paying is not going to pay off if they are going “force obsolescence” in the future. Excellent work Sonos
The other coworker has never bought Sonos but was going to buy one as he was really impressed by the sound quality is now not going to because of the trade up program. He wasn’t happy they would brick perfectly working speakers that will end up in land fills. Environmentally responsible is a big deal for this younger generation. Again, good job Sonos.
Congratulations SONOS, you’ve been able to alienate potential new customers, casual customers and heavily invested customers like us in a matter of months.
They have 9m devices (not customers)
37% of sales come from existing customers. My guess is that those customers enthuse about the product and drive more sales.
I am surprised the share price has not tanked.
Yeah and god only knows how many of the 63% of new costumer sales is from word of mouth from the 37%
I bet that if they dont reverse this decision, in 10 years they will be in the same business school books as Nokia and others on “how NOT to do”.
Not only is this disregard for customers it is blatant green-washing - Does Sonos really think that sending thousands of perfectly fine devices for recycling is eco-friendly? It is, I suggest, entirely the opposite. What a waste, and what a shame. Surely there is another solution.
So as we have all agreed, Sonos isn’t just a speaker but really a computer with speakers or amplifiers attached. Perhaps one way to be free from the control of Sonos is to jailbreak the devices and put a flavor of linux on it. This community is full of developers. There is already an OSS UI for sonos out there. I seem to remember an OSS version of Alexa integration as well. The PC industry had OS control over hardware until linux freed us from MS control of the hardware.
