Sonos really that bad?

  • 12 August 2021
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57 replies

K

 

His exact response to  me was….”I never listen to it,but it looks good in my living room,so I keep it”.

 

Lol - what's the odds that some one visiting will be very impressed by how good the retained system sounds even if the music is actually coming from Sonos speakers in the vicinity?

N
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As a former fanatical audiophile,who owned components from Mark Levinson,Jeff Rowland,Big Infinity and Avalon speakers,as well as Audio Research and Conrad Johnson components(all the top tier of the respective lines)I can confidently say…..

Don’t worry about it!

I have 2 Play 5’s and the sub,with that damn cute little Roam as a rear channel ambience speaker.The system is set up in a good room and I don’t give a second thought to my old high end stuff.

That era was filled with products that generated heat,took up tons of space,cost a bundle and required tweaking.Not to mention the loss of true dealer support,because traditional audio is on it’s way out….

IT IS!

Many audio products have their own sonic signature and it’s not always all that neutral.

It also becomes a real hassle when they develop issues and one has to figure out what component is the cause…..A major pain in the tush!

My current Sonos set up has been a joy to use for 20 months.No Cd’s and LP’s to store and clean….No ticks and pops from records…...No hassles….Just Music and to be honest….Reproduced quite well!

Good luck-:)

 

Thank you for your input. It means a lot to hear that Sonos, in general plays good. Moreso, i never listen to music sitting in a sweetspot (maybe it will change with years to come) so i really don't search perfection in soundstage and clarity.

Neven

N
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 And while i understand big sound can come only from big enclosure/driver i so believe the industy and electronics came a long way. Two decades ago i had a desktop computer ten times weaker and slower than my mobile phone. 

 

To an extent the computer to phone analogy applies for enclosures as well - a small driver that can move back and forth over a bigger distance in a well designed box will move the same amount of air as the big driver/enclosure of yesterday, and will thus deliver very similar results. 

I have to say to an extent, because the physics of sound propagation cannot be completely defeated. 

Very well said. Thank you.

Neven

K

 Moreso, i never listen to music sitting in a sweetspot (maybe it will change with years to come) so i really don't search perfection in soundstage and clarity.

 

Sonos is capable of sounding good in the next room as well as in the sweet spot - but I suspect you may have moved away from sitting just in the sweet spot for music listening; such a location makes sense to get the best of a movie experience for both audio and video, not so much for just music these days. In the early days of home audio, families used to sit together in the sweet spot listening to music - that is a bygone era.

M
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Just thought I’d add that my friend who has “almost” the same Sonos  set up as me(2 Play 5 gen 2’s,with sub and a Roam,which I use extremely effectively as rear speaker for ambience, also has the Sonos Soundbar in the room,used for his fantastic 65” high def TV set up…..He uses it “all” for TV broadcasts.

It’s not a large room,but has high ceilings and when he pumps it all….You cannot believe the overwhelmingly fantastic experience! I mean “staggering”!

Nobody is going to knock that set up for not being able to differentiate between the first and second violins in an orchestra,like my old audiophile pals did constantly.

Another thing that imo is something good about owning a well set up Sonos system is,the components used in this system are direct coupled and chosen exclusively for their purpose by the manufacturer.In this case,obviously,Sonos…...No wires to need cleaning at their connection points,or tubes to wear out over time.

I feel that because of the direct coupling of all components utilized within there are times,in a really good recording,that the sound exceeds what i have heard from many traditional set ups…...Not all,but enough to not worry about it.

Also,the Sonos sub,with my pair of Play 5’s(my friend’s too) “definitely” destroys the bass that I’ve heard from so many mega buck systems….No bloat and boom…..Then,there’s the Truplay feature….Works great!

While I’m bloviating(sorry if it comes across this way) I might add that there is a seamlessness of all frequencies that many standard/traditional systems do not match,when you consider how completely full range this system is.Not to mention that anyone can add rear speakers to the mix for more dynamics and immersion…..My friend has this in spades…..and…

Many audiophile types(like my past self and old audiophile friends…...I’ve moved,so no longer in touch with that crowd) would argue that one only needs a stereo pairing for an accurate life like experience.

I counter that argument with this question…..”Would you have a better listening experience,in your car,if it only had 2 front speakers,or does it sound better in surround sound using the rear ones as well…..and ….don’t the musicians in a symphony orchestra hear their performance while seated and immersed in the center of their own performance  soundstage”?

I wanted to go for a 3rd Play 5,mounted on a rear wall,in horizontal configuration,but when Sonos introduced the Roam I figured I could pull off a decent rear ambience and fairly impactful sound with “it”.I have a table just behind the listening seat…..Works really well.

I’m a fan-:)

P.S…..Imagine what will come down the road,from Sonos in say 2 years from now.

Like the mid 1970’s in traditional audio,this is a nice time for the new guard and these “quality” tech companies have made it affordable-ish.-:)

Sorry for my length.

 

K

 

Sorry for my length.

 

For a counter argument if you have the energy to spare - I don’t - see the last posts here:

 

https://en.community.sonos.com/music-services-and-sources-228994/sonos-support-for-apple-music-s-lossless-audio-6858768?postid=16552921#post16552921

M
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Well,all I can say is…..Go listen(on a well set up Sonos system,hopefuly with Stereo Play 5’s and the sub) to “Mojito Moon” on The album called “In The Groove”…..Jim Messina.

Lossy,lossless you’re not going to care…..That is incredible sound,by any standard!

 

Btw,Kumar….I checked out your old thread about who can recommend new music.I wrote down all the titles that interested me…..A few pushes on my smart phone and no worries that I no longer have an LP player,or Cd’s.

New music and plenty of it.-:)

K

 

Lossy,lossless you’re not going to care…..That is incredible sound,by any standard!

 

New music and plenty of it.-:)

But, to quote the pest on the other thread: Sonos isn't HiFi:grinning:

And yes, access to so much more music is so easy these days - where music listening is concerned, these really are the best of times. 

M
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I really think many audiophile types(I was one for decades) forgot why they got into this in the first place.

It was not to play with cool looking equipment,or tweak,upgrade components every time a reviewer gave a thumbs up to something,or hear the rosin on A violin string!

It “was” to listen to lots of music,hopefully well recorded and played back in good sound.At least that’s what it was to me.

In my old-ish age I’ve gotten a bit lazy…...I like the no hassle approach of these new music components…..Which sound pretty darn good and I’ve had/heard and owned it all….Almost.-:)

 

buzz

Cars are similar. Some fans with shiny custom rigs spend all weekend tuning while other fans with old clunkers are out and about visiting all sorts of interesting places. Both types enjoy their car, but in different ways. Personally, I appreciate high tech car toys as engineering marvels, but I’d never own one. If a car gets me there on time and I’m dry, it has done its job.

In some respects you could throw me into the Audiophile bin because I can make some awkward observations (‘buzz’ -- get it?). Self proclaimed Audiophiles don’t usually appreciate having me around because I can backup my observations with science. I don’t need to claim better than human hearing, I just pay attention.

Many cite the goal of “concert hall sound” from their audio system. Unfortunately, I don’t know what that is because the sound is different with different seats in the hall. In one case I was in a very bad seat in a world class hall and I can only describe the sound as ‘terrible’ -- in that seat because of an unfortunate echo off a nearby wall. If my audio system sounded like that I’d simply turn it off. I was glad when that concert ended.

In the end only you know what sounds ‘best’ (to you). Let the audiophile enjoy his custom rig.

K

Let the audiophile enjoy his custom rig.

Oh absolutely. It is only when they claim that their rig or superior hearing is what lets only they able to pick out lossless v Hi Res v 256/320 lossy even from the same master, that I think they ought to be called out. Especially when this is done in non enthusiast forums such as this one.

K

In recent weeks I have also discovered another reference point for sound quality - studio monitors. I have added a pair, that is in the bedroom sourcing music from an Echo Show 5 and also serving to elevate the sound from the bedroom TV. With no separate box for the amp, the install is very tidy. I found that I needed to play around with the EQ knobs to get the sound I like and I am quite pleased at the outcome on the value for money front as well.

As a product type, such monitors are more HiFi than audiophile kit, using the strict meaning of the term HiFi. But you will never see them in the typical audiophile set up, even with models that can be tuned to sound more like domestic kit.

And although I have no plans to test this, I suspect there is a better chance of picking out things like lossless v lossy using these, as opposed to domestic kit of any kind. But using these has had no impact on how good I find the music to be in my Sonos zones.

If one can live with their industrial looks with no grilles, there are many excellent examples of value for money in this category - all they need in a domestic environment is something like an Echo - even a Dot - as a source. I also find that many vinyl fans use these to make a simple set up for accessing vinyl.

M
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I am fairly certain that the audio component/music industry is on the cusp of a revolution….That being the plethora of affordable/high quality smart speakers,either out now,or coming down the road in the next 2 years.

There are probably quite a few companies that we don’t even know about yet,who offer superb sound and value.

Sonos being at the top of the list,so far.

No wonder their stock went from $15 per share,when I bought my set up 20 months ago,to $40 per share today.

As much as I loved the stuff,traditional audio components are going the way of VCR’s.

K

 

As much as I loved the stuff,traditional audio components are going the way of VCR’s.

Except perhaps for vinyl that may still retain a following - there is still something to be said for the charm of all the visible engineering and being able to interact with it more than just the usual swiping or button pressing.

M
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Agreed…..I had 3000Lp’s and 400 CD’s….but….I far prefer pushing my smart phone buttons….Basically,because I’m lazy.-:)

10 years from now,you won’t be able to give away LP’s…..and…..I loved them!

Stanley_4
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For some good fun with vinyl fans try discussing turntable cartridge and stylus types and proper setup. Very few have any clue about these.

European versus American vertical tracking angles and playback methods can be fun.

Turntable drive systems and bearing types are always good topics.

Of course then you can discuss surface cleaning and vinyl preservation options.

Maybe even signal to noise ratios or channel separation. Inner versus outer groove distortion is always fun as is album length versus low frequency roll-off. 

 

Used to be great fun, probably spent more time fussing about this stuff than all the rest of our systems put together.

Still I switched to CDs and then a CD changer and never looked back at my vinyl. Gave it all (about 18 linear feet) up in a move to a new lifestyle, sadly only a couple years before it would have been practical to rip copies of all of them. Good news is that almost everything I had is available over streaming.

buzz

For some good fun with vinyl fans try discussing turntable cartridge and stylus types and proper setup. Very few have any clue about these.

 

It’s very difficult to discuss proper cartridge alignment because very little has been written about this.

For proper VTA (Vertical Tracking Angle) you need to fuss with each record. Probably the best approach is to use a calibrated, adjustable arm height and put a number on each record. Unfortunately, if you change cartridges or replace the stylus, you’ll need a new set of numbers. And, it’s more or less hopeless if the record is not perfectly flat.

With CD’s and digital in general we fret about bits and jitter, but I’ve seen very few records that are flat with the hole in the center and there are built-in tracking distortions due to the geometry of the situation.

Early CD players did not sound so good because the analog designers missed some basic digital fine points and the digital designers missed some basic analog fine points. And, the CD mastering process was not generally understood. Now we are passed this mess, but the music marketers have taken control and regular commercial music releases have the life compressed out of them. Records in the earlier generations were mastered before the draconian compressors were available. Of course we now can purchase our libraries (again) in “high-def”. In my opinion this is pointless unless the high-def version skips the compressor.

K

but the music marketers have taken control and regular commercial music releases have the life compressed out of them.

I have found that for the genres I like - jazz and blues - this isn't so much of a thing, and I get the dynamic range I like to hear from new recordings as well. Of course, normalisation of sound levels in a playlist shuffled randomly is still an issue, but that is a different subject.

Stanley_4
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For my ears and tinkering I loved the vinyl as I could do the tweaks and hear the differences. Ended up with two turntables, one with the arm height set for US and one for European cut LPs as I had a number of each.

Each had a collection of cartridges in various shapes to include the 50 KHz capable CD-4 Shibata that was essential as a conventional stylus would ruin the ultrasonic carrier in a couple plays. Just putting an LP on to play could take a half hour if I wanted to swap bits about.

And the cleaning… The Stereo and Quadraphonic discs were fussy enough but if you never heard a CD-4 disc hit a dust mote you can’t imagine it. More time in the cleaning machine than on the platter and even then it would sometimes pick up grit before the stylus got to the track. Closing the lid helped but then you were pretty much on headphones as the speakers would feed back (not a howl but a subtle, slightly delayed version of what was playing) and distort the sound.

I ended up copying all the Quad / CD-4 disks to four-track reel to reel tapes just so I could hear the music without all the prep. Noticeable degradation even at 15 IPS and the tapes were not cheap.

If I hadn’t been living in Japan and had access to the Military exchange system I’d probably still be paying off the piles of toys I picked up.

 

I never had a low-end CD player and my ears couldn’t hear any difference from the many CD tweaks so there was nothing there to play with. Sounded great but boring to use.

Streaming quality does matter, the bottom end options do sound bad but CD/FLAC and better MP3 streams sound good enough I can’t hear any issues.

 

Fun memories but this morning I walked in here, booted the computer and tapped the top of my One SL and had music playing before I got the BIOS screen up on the computer. So, yes fond memories but not something I want to do today.

M
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I agree with Kumar,that for some reason Jazz albums seem to have superb signal to noise on my Sonos rig…...I’m completely satisfied.

Don’t get me started on my old,long since gone,but loved,Vinyl albums.

I had a Graham Phantom tonearm and a Transfiguration Orpheus cartridge,as well as Koetsu…..I always found each LP required not only a different VTA setting,but a subtle adjustment in the damping fluid.

Lp’s vary in thickness and when you are an audiophile fanatic(not a bad thing) you play around with this stuff…..It was fun,but having just finished a 2.5 hour Sonos listening session,I don’t miss it.

Have to admit,not having to get up out of my chair to change sides does not burn as many calories as listening to my records.-:)

K

 

Have to admit,not having to get up out of my chair to change sides does not burn as many calories as listening to my records.-:)

Yep, but the pain of having to get up once properly sited at night with a glass of whisky in hand just to turn the side over finally leads to dumping vinyl once there is a viable option. Not to mention that the careful handling necessary for vinyl can be a challenge after more than a glass.

M
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Or a joint.-:)

K

Or a joint.-:)

Different strokes...:-)

Stanley_4
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Smoking anything with exposed vinyl? Nope, nope, nope not my precious vinyl!

M
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Or “tokes”….-:)

Btw,I’m just kidding…..

Back to smart tech for a moment…..I have a suspicion that the real money in the tech related smart music  is Ear Buds!

I never gave them a thought and in order to not annoy my neighbors at night(with my big Sonos rig) I got the Sony XM-3 headphones…..Very nice…..but….In warmer weather I prefer something lighter on the ear,so I got a pair of superb Earbuds(Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro).

I was flabbergasted as to how good these little buggers are.I paid $99,98 shipped and the performance is so good that I can understand some folks just going with buds and nothing else,if you’re on a tight budget.

I believe there was a rumor,on one of the You-Tube sites(I think it may have been Peter Pee….Love that guy) claiming Sonos may be working on these devices.

Think about how many pairs of Ear Buds must sell worldwide…..Megabuck profit?

So cool!

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