Sonos really that bad?

  • 12 August 2021
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57 replies

M
Userlevel 4
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Well,all I can say is…..Go listen(on a well set up Sonos system,hopefuly with Stereo Play 5’s and the sub) to “Mojito Moon” on The album called “In The Groove”…..Jim Messina.

Lossy,lossless you’re not going to care…..That is incredible sound,by any standard!

 

Btw,Kumar….I checked out your old thread about who can recommend new music.I wrote down all the titles that interested me…..A few pushes on my smart phone and no worries that I no longer have an LP player,or Cd’s.

New music and plenty of it.-:)

K

 

Sorry for my length.

 

For a counter argument if you have the energy to spare - I don’t - see the last posts here:

 

https://en.community.sonos.com/music-services-and-sources-228994/sonos-support-for-apple-music-s-lossless-audio-6858768?postid=16552921#post16552921

M
Userlevel 4
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Just thought I’d add that my friend who has “almost” the same Sonos  set up as me(2 Play 5 gen 2’s,with sub and a Roam,which I use extremely effectively as rear speaker for ambience, also has the Sonos Soundbar in the room,used for his fantastic 65” high def TV set up…..He uses it “all” for TV broadcasts.

It’s not a large room,but has high ceilings and when he pumps it all….You cannot believe the overwhelmingly fantastic experience! I mean “staggering”!

Nobody is going to knock that set up for not being able to differentiate between the first and second violins in an orchestra,like my old audiophile pals did constantly.

Another thing that imo is something good about owning a well set up Sonos system is,the components used in this system are direct coupled and chosen exclusively for their purpose by the manufacturer.In this case,obviously,Sonos…...No wires to need cleaning at their connection points,or tubes to wear out over time.

I feel that because of the direct coupling of all components utilized within there are times,in a really good recording,that the sound exceeds what i have heard from many traditional set ups…...Not all,but enough to not worry about it.

Also,the Sonos sub,with my pair of Play 5’s(my friend’s too) “definitely” destroys the bass that I’ve heard from so many mega buck systems….No bloat and boom…..Then,there’s the Truplay feature….Works great!

While I’m bloviating(sorry if it comes across this way) I might add that there is a seamlessness of all frequencies that many standard/traditional systems do not match,when you consider how completely full range this system is.Not to mention that anyone can add rear speakers to the mix for more dynamics and immersion…..My friend has this in spades…..and…

Many audiophile types(like my past self and old audiophile friends…...I’ve moved,so no longer in touch with that crowd) would argue that one only needs a stereo pairing for an accurate life like experience.

I counter that argument with this question…..”Would you have a better listening experience,in your car,if it only had 2 front speakers,or does it sound better in surround sound using the rear ones as well…..and ….don’t the musicians in a symphony orchestra hear their performance while seated and immersed in the center of their own performance  soundstage”?

I wanted to go for a 3rd Play 5,mounted on a rear wall,in horizontal configuration,but when Sonos introduced the Roam I figured I could pull off a decent rear ambience and fairly impactful sound with “it”.I have a table just behind the listening seat…..Works really well.

I’m a fan-:)

P.S…..Imagine what will come down the road,from Sonos in say 2 years from now.

Like the mid 1970’s in traditional audio,this is a nice time for the new guard and these “quality” tech companies have made it affordable-ish.-:)

Sorry for my length.

 

K

 Moreso, i never listen to music sitting in a sweetspot (maybe it will change with years to come) so i really don't search perfection in soundstage and clarity.

 

Sonos is capable of sounding good in the next room as well as in the sweet spot - but I suspect you may have moved away from sitting just in the sweet spot for music listening; such a location makes sense to get the best of a movie experience for both audio and video, not so much for just music these days. In the early days of home audio, families used to sit together in the sweet spot listening to music - that is a bygone era.

N
Userlevel 3
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 And while i understand big sound can come only from big enclosure/driver i so believe the industy and electronics came a long way. Two decades ago i had a desktop computer ten times weaker and slower than my mobile phone. 

 

To an extent the computer to phone analogy applies for enclosures as well - a small driver that can move back and forth over a bigger distance in a well designed box will move the same amount of air as the big driver/enclosure of yesterday, and will thus deliver very similar results. 

I have to say to an extent, because the physics of sound propagation cannot be completely defeated. 

Very well said. Thank you.

Neven

N
Userlevel 3
Badge +9

As a former fanatical audiophile,who owned components from Mark Levinson,Jeff Rowland,Big Infinity and Avalon speakers,as well as Audio Research and Conrad Johnson components(all the top tier of the respective lines)I can confidently say…..

Don’t worry about it!

I have 2 Play 5’s and the sub,with that damn cute little Roam as a rear channel ambience speaker.The system is set up in a good room and I don’t give a second thought to my old high end stuff.

That era was filled with products that generated heat,took up tons of space,cost a bundle and required tweaking.Not to mention the loss of true dealer support,because traditional audio is on it’s way out….

IT IS!

Many audio products have their own sonic signature and it’s not always all that neutral.

It also becomes a real hassle when they develop issues and one has to figure out what component is the cause…..A major pain in the tush!

My current Sonos set up has been a joy to use for 20 months.No Cd’s and LP’s to store and clean….No ticks and pops from records…...No hassles….Just Music and to be honest….Reproduced quite well!

Good luck-:)

 

Thank you for your input. It means a lot to hear that Sonos, in general plays good. Moreso, i never listen to music sitting in a sweetspot (maybe it will change with years to come) so i really don't search perfection in soundstage and clarity.

Neven

K

 

His exact response to  me was….”I never listen to it,but it looks good in my living room,so I keep it”.

 

Lol - what's the odds that some one visiting will be very impressed by how good the retained system sounds even if the music is actually coming from Sonos speakers in the vicinity?

M
Userlevel 4
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You hit it right on the head Kumar…...My old audio pals would not even give a second thought to my current system…..I have a pal who introduced me to Sonos and has my exact set up(he got it first). He is very well off financially…….He also has a good traditional set up…...I was over his place 3 weeks ago and asked about his old Hi Fi stuff.

His exact response to  me was….”I never listen to it,but it looks good in my living room,so I keep it”.

No exaggeration from me.

M
Userlevel 4
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Btw,I should have added that as an Amazon Unlimited user,I have been able to play much music that i was familiar with,since I had it on Lp’s and Cd;s…..Classical and Rock as well as Jazz.

I’ve listened quite carefully for the subtleties that were on those recordings…..There is not much lost on my Sonos rig.I believe if the music was transferred well,you lose very little from the originals.

In some cases the transfers are sub par,but it’s not Sonos…...However,for every instance where I “think” some tidbit of musical information is missing,there are tons of albums where it’s better…..Go figure.-:)

Case in point…..Jim Messina put out a  “Live” album,called “In The Groove” (this was after Loggins And Messina broke up)which  is an album that is so well recorded and transferred to this format  that I shake my head as to the realism being reproduced on a “mere” Sonos system…..In a good way.

Gotta’ love it.-:)

K

 

That era was filled with products that generated heat,took up tons of space,cost a bundle and required tweaking.

 

The tweaking keeps users busy - just listening to music can get boring - while the expense means that it allows them to look down on the many others that have cheaper kit and get a kick from that.

The absence of these two important “benefits” is why audiophiles don't like Sonos. All that one can do with it is listen to music. And the neighbour can keep up quite easily if he or she chooses to do so.

M
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

As a former fanatical audiophile,who owned components from Mark Levinson,Jeff Rowland,Big Infinity and Avalon speakers,as well as Audio Research and Conrad Johnson components(all the top tier of the respective lines)I can confidently say…..

Don’t worry about it!

I have 2 Play 5’s and the sub,with that damn cute little Roam as a rear channel ambience speaker.The system is set up in a good room and I don’t give a second thought to my old high end stuff.

That era was filled with products that generated heat,took up tons of space,cost a bundle and required tweaking.Not to mention the loss of true dealer support,because traditional audio is on it’s way out….

IT IS!

Many audio products have their own sonic signature and it’s not always all that neutral.

It also becomes a real hassle when they develop issues and one has to figure out what component is the cause…..A major pain in the tush!

My current Sonos set up has been a joy to use for 20 months.No Cd’s and LP’s to store and clean….No ticks and pops from records…...No hassles….Just Music and to be honest….Reproduced quite well!

Good luck-:)

 

K

 And while i understand big sound can come only from big enclosure/driver i so believe the industy and electronics came a long way. Two decades ago i had a desktop computer ten times weaker and slower than my mobile phone. 

 

To an extent the computer to phone analogy applies for enclosures as well - a small driver that can move back and forth over a bigger distance in a well designed box will move the same amount of air as the big driver/enclosure of yesterday, and will thus deliver very similar results. 

I have to say to an extent, because the physics of sound propagation cannot be completely defeated. 

N
Userlevel 3
Badge +9

Maybe if Sonos had glowing tubes and a few flickering VU meters it would sound a whole lot more acceptable.

Even if the glowing tubes were not in the signal path and if the flickering thing added some noise to it….so long as one is ignorant of this state of affairs, so as to allow the brain to be fooled.

On the other hand, I do recognise that the listening experience isn't just what happens via the ears. Which is why music sounds better with the lights down low, late at night. As one example.

And even while I may not have any marked preference for either a top of the line Sonos set up or a Sonus Faber one, for sure much of the latter make’s line looks a LOT better than Sonos, to my eye. And subconsciously, I know that even for me, that will almost certainly drive a preference for them, if cost was not a constraint, and the comparison was allowed to be influenced by how they look.

Since my real life listening is not in the blind, I too would probably lean towards saying they sounded better - because it isn't just the ears that are delivering the inputs that make up the listening experience.

Interesting view of a problem. I do like to see this hi end components but Sonos simplicity won me over. And while i understand big sound can come only from big enclosure/driver i so believe the industy and electronics came a long way. Two decades ago i had a desktop computer ten times weaker and slower than my mobile phone. 

Neven

N
Userlevel 3
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But I still think that a minute of listening is not nearly enough and that I did not present the wonderfull Sonos system at it’s best.

Many years ago I had a mid-range ‘hi-fi’ system - Quad, KEF, Thorens. A friend of ours had a small mini system which included tape player, CD, radio and speakers which cost about £50.

When she’d come to us she’d say that the only difference she could hear between her system and ours was that ours would go louder.

When we went to her place, it was obvious within seconds of playing any track that the mini system was missing so much of the music - colouration, timing, clarity - everything was inferior. Even SWMBO (who doesn’t give a toss about sound quality) used to comment on it. The owner was very happy with it, though, and we  considered it impolite to criticise - why would we wish to upset a friend?

My advice is to stop worrying about it and to enjoy your Sonos. If you’re happy with the sound, it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. There’s always going to be someone out there who has spent a lot of money on their system in the pursuit of - something (maybe just bragging rights). Ignore them.

Thank you for your opinion. The part about the cost is right. He had an inferior (cheaper system) which sounded better to my ears than the current setup. 

Neven

K

Maybe if Sonos had glowing tubes and a few flickering VU meters it would sound a whole lot more acceptable.

Even if the glowing tubes were not in the signal path and if the flickering thing added some noise to it….so long as one is ignorant of this state of affairs, so as to allow the brain to be fooled.

On the other hand, I do recognise that the listening experience isn't just what happens via the ears. Which is why music sounds better with the lights down low, late at night. As one example.

And even while I may not have any marked preference for either a top of the line Sonos set up or a Sonus Faber one, for sure much of the latter make’s line looks a LOT better than Sonos, to my eye. And subconsciously, I know that even for me, that will almost certainly drive a preference for them, if cost was not a constraint, and the comparison was allowed to be influenced by how they look.

Since my real life listening is not in the blind, I too would probably lean towards saying they sounded better - because it isn't just the ears that are delivering the inputs that make up the listening experience.

ratty

Maybe if Sonos had glowing tubes and a few flickering VU meters it would sound a whole lot more acceptable.

A

But I still think that a minute of listening is not nearly enough and that I did not present the wonderfull Sonos system at it’s best.

Many years ago I had a mid-range ‘hi-fi’ system - Quad, KEF, Thorens. A friend of ours had a small mini system which included tape player, CD, radio and speakers which cost about £50.

When she’d come to us she’d say that the only difference she could hear between her system and ours was that ours would go louder.

When we went to her place, it was obvious within seconds of playing any track that the mini system was missing so much of the music - colouration, timing, clarity - everything was inferior. Even SWMBO (who doesn’t give a toss about sound quality) used to comment on it. The owner was very happy with it, though, and we  considered it impolite to criticise - why would we wish to upset a friend?

My advice is to stop worrying about it and to enjoy your Sonos. If you’re happy with the sound, it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. There’s always going to be someone out there who has spent a lot of money on their system in the pursuit of - something (maybe just bragging rights). Ignore them.

N
Userlevel 3
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I’ve always found, though, that - all other issues like volume matching and blind testing aside - it’s usually easier to hear differences if you go from a ‘good’ system to a ‘less good’ system. Going up the quality scale often doesn’t sound very different - better, but not hugely different.


And that’s why “audiophile” retailers will always let you listen to the expensive, “better” system first, in the hope there’s “something missing” for you to pick up when you then listen to the cheap system. 

True. Also, I do think that very few people have ”perfect” hearing in order to able to detect subtle nuances and frequencies in music.

Neven

N
Userlevel 3
Badge +9

If you’re happy with the sound from your Sonos kit, surely that’s all that matters.

I’ve always found, though, that - all other issues like volume matching and blind testing aside - it’s usually easier to hear differences if you go from a ‘good’ system to a ‘less good’ system. Going up the quality scale often doesn’t sound very different - better, but not hugely different. Once you’re used to the better quality kit, though, going back to a lower quality system is immediately apparent. This may well be why he’s having such  a swift and decisive reaction.

 

Maybe… Yesterday we had a short chat about it. He said: it’s a good home theather. For music it’s no good. He added the SUB is very powerfull. So, Sonos got some ok reviews. But I still think that a minute of listening is not nearly enough and that I did not present the wonderfull Sonos system at it’s best.

Neven

 

 

N
Userlevel 7
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I’ve always found, though, that - all other issues like volume matching and blind testing aside - it’s usually easier to hear differences if you go from a ‘good’ system to a ‘less good’ system. Going up the quality scale often doesn’t sound very different - better, but not hugely different.


And that’s why “audiophile” retailers will always let you listen to the expensive, “better” system first, in the hope there’s “something missing” for you to pick up when you then listen to the cheap system. 

A

If you’re happy with the sound from your Sonos kit, surely that’s all that matters.

I’ve always found, though, that - all other issues like volume matching and blind testing aside - it’s usually easier to hear differences if you go from a ‘good’ system to a ‘less good’ system. Going up the quality scale often doesn’t sound very different - better, but not hugely different. Once you’re used to the better quality kit, though, going back to a lower quality system is immediately apparent. This may well be why he’s having such  a swift and decisive reaction.

 

N
Userlevel 3
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Thank you for helping sorting my thoughts out. It seems to me I only need one more Sonos unit. This forum warned me long ago, the GAS will happen. 

Neven

N
Userlevel 3
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Personally I buy gear that pleases me and I couldn’t give a damn what others think of it. 

Some ‘audiophiles’ go out of their way to convince themselves that the massive amounts they’ve spent on their gear is far better than other systems. The people aren’t worth knowing in my opinion.

I used to have a ‘proper’ 5.1 system and ‘proper’ hi-fi system but I got rid of them and only have Sonos gear now because it’s so much more convenient to use and sounds good enough for me. A lot of the music I like to listen to sounded awful on ‘proper’ hi-fi and I’m not prepared to change what I listen to just to make my system sound better!

If you’re happy with your system then that is all that matters. 

Edit - one more thing. A lot of these audiophiles seem to descend into listening to the performance of their gear rather than listening to and enjoying the music.

 

You could be right. But us Sonos fans also fall in to the same trap. I myself plan to swap Playbar for Arc and expect better sound… 

N
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 my ears aren’t as good as they were 30+ years ago! Go with what pleases you. 

I am slightly over 40 now. I hope to own a few Sonos speakers by the time I reach 50 :-) 

N
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Going against expectations, I’d say Sonos produce an acceptable sound, you say that you thought the sound produced when watching films was good, surely you trust your own judgement? You can always buy better speakers but if you are happy with what you have why bother?

Yes, i would say it sounds pretty good. Considering the fact it is “only” DD 5.1, sometimes converted from DTS i am pleased.

Neven

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