End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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R
Userlevel 5
Badge +2

Quote from Sonos Annual Report: Our product roadmap is largely focused on delivering products with voice control.

Might be a nice to have, but not what I bought into Sonos for and not something I’m particularly bothered about. And still not a reason legacy products should stop working - no-one expects them to miraculously become voice-controllable. 

Strange, I’ve not seen any announcement that a legacy product will suddenly stop working. Just no more updates for them, post May 2020. 

It seems a rather classic case here of that popular game called “Chinese Whispers”, me thinks.

 

“me thinks” that the issue is not whether the system will suddenly cease to function.  The issue is whether there are truly technological hurdles or economic burdens that prevent legacy products from being supported.   This decision seems to be Sonos trying to spur product sales and has nothing to do with an any actual issue in supporting legacy components.

 

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +1

My Sonos family is in tatters!

I’m still not sure how I'm going to have this awkward conversation with my 6 month old Beam that it’s not going to be supported or updated whilst its older sibling Play 5 (Gen 1) is still living in the house and I haven’t chucked it out or worse... killed it yet!

I think my Playbar is coming to terms with it - that it might be next!

My beam is really too young to understand and my play 1s are still so small.

The Sub on the other hand is gobsmacked! :O

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

Strange, I’ve not seen any announcement that a legacy product will suddenly stop working. Just no more updates for them, post May 2020. 

It seems a rather classic case here of that popular game called “Chinese Whispers”, me thinks.

​​​​​​

May 1st: Sonos stop distributing updates for my Play 5. 
May 2nd: Apple make a small but breaking change to their streaming interface. 
May 3rd: Sonos release an update that keeps their products working. Except not to me, because I do not want to accept their kind offer to pay them again for the same thing I already have. My entire Sonos installation is unable to update. My entire Sonos installation STOPS WORKING. 

R
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Quote from Sonos Annual Report: Our product roadmap is largely focused on delivering products with voice control.

Might be a nice to have, but not what I bought into Sonos for and not something I’m particularly bothered about. And still not a reason legacy products should stop working - no-one expects them to miraculously become voice-controllable. 

Strange, I’ve not seen any announcement that a legacy product will suddenly stop working. Just no more updates for them, post May 2020. 

It seems a rather classic case here of that popular game called “Chinese Whispers”, me thinks.

 

 

After May 2020 they’ve confirmed

  1. The system can remain integrated but this means no updates for legacy and modern (new) devices.
  2. Create two separate systems but lose whole of house coverage. The whole idea of Sonos in the first place.
  3. Systems not being updated will continue to work until, changes are made by external  sources that may result in losing some elements of the service or the service entirely.

Any systems not receiving updates, either features, bugs or SECURITY updates will then be exposed to changes from external suppliers… i.e. Streaming companies such as Deezer, Apple and Amazon. These companies change features, services etc that result in changes to their API. These changes will not reach any equipment that no longer receives updates. This effectively will kill the service/use of the device.

Secondly there is the security issue. As the system ages (legacy) with no updates and hackers expose holes in their system, these will not be correct/repaired as they longer receive updates and therefore expose your entire network. 

 

H
Userlevel 6
Badge +3

Quote from Sonos Annual Report: Our product roadmap is largely focused on delivering products with voice control.

Might be a nice to have, but not what I bought into Sonos for and not something I’m particularly bothered about. And still not a reason legacy products should stop working - no-one expects them to miraculously become voice-controllable. 

Strange, I’ve not seen any announcement that a legacy product will suddenly stop working. Just no more updates for them, post May 2020. 

It seems a rather classic case here of that popular game called “Chinese Whispers”, me thinks.

 


You’ve not looked very well then!

I had this in an email from Sonos ...

“Your entire system will still work after May, it just won't update anymore. As time goes on there may be services that stop working”

 

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

Sonos, did you mean 70% discount to trade in our obsolete devices? #sonostradein70discount

Should everybody ask for 70% discount?

H

In my opinion SONOS walked the wrong way. Voice-controlled Systems - which propably need the extended calculation power - are only good for disabled persons, who - for example - are blind.

Why don’t you keep it simple? Create your own music-streaming-service and lock Amazon, Apple, Google out. The big players in music business can change their software so offen, that the SONOS equipment that is today called “modern” also gets obsolet in no time.

R

But you are still listing the connect as a last chance!

  1. If I buy one will it be obsolete in May
  2. If not why is my current connect being made obsolete?

Thanks,

 

Rob

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

I stared another thread to get 70% discount from Sonos

#sonostradein70discount

https://en.community.sonos.com/community-feedback-229090/did-sonos-mean-70-discount-to-trade-in-your-obsolete-devices-sonostradein70discount-6836092#post16396110

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +14

No point investing in a company that does not respect its customers particularly at the price point they sell their equipment. How do we know they will not cash in again in 5 years time? 

They never wanted to add Bluetooth, they never want to add Atmos, they never want to add HDMI. and for what. So we are lock-in and now they stop supporting it and making our investment useless

We need to boycott this money-making driven company and find an alternative. Bring back John MacFarlane ( Sonos founder and former CEO) He had principles to loyal customers

Best alternatives to Sonos

https://usa.inquirer.net/18732/the-best-sonos-alternative-for-a-wireless-home-sound-system

Hmm  … all proprietary systems.  Good luck with that. 

M
Userlevel 1

This is so disappointing I almost cannot find words for it. But will give it a try. I have been a (very) loyal Sonos-customer for 10 years. And, all of a sudden, my fav speaker in the system I have built up over the years is deemed obsolete and “legacy”. What??

 

Sorry guys, but with these kind of products IT IS NOT POSSIBLE do go the “disposable” route. 1. To much time spent to get sound and placement right. 2. We have adapted parts of our home to the Sonos products. 3. Environment and sustainability. 4. Customer confidence. To name a few. You just HAVE to re-think this or my days as a Sonos customer, and ambassador, are over. 

 

The only good thing to come out of this is for guys that have gone short on the Sonos stock. Traders and investors track customer forums and the share  is gonna take another big hit today, trust me on this one… trying to please investors more than your loyal customers is, in the end, what kills companies.

S
Userlevel 3

I’ve been watching this whole thing unfold and I’m guess I’m fairly lucky in that I only have 1 “legacy” product (for now - the P3 is surely next to go), and I have had 10 years of use out of it. But the way this whole thing has been handled is a disaster - you would have thought they would have learned from the CR100 and trade-up backlash. For what it’s worth here are my thoughts:

  •  The 30% trade-up is a joke. The discount is insulting given the heavy discounts that retailers have been offering on Sonos this Christmas.
  •  There is no upgrade. The new speaker does the same as the old. So what is the benefit for me? I am Android, so no Airplay 2, I have echo dots - so I don’t need voice built in. The only benefit is for the shareholders - they take my old speaker and charge me £400 for a new one!
  •  Environmental impact - I thought we were supposed to be moving away from this sort of wasteful practice?
  •  This mostly affects the early adopters - the very people who have made Sonos what it is today.
  • All Sonos speakers now have a very clear shelf life. Most people don’t go out and buy a whole home system, they build it over time. The problem is now that by the time you’ve finished building your system the first components are unsupported! Ideal for the Sonos shareholders!
  • Why announce this without working out how it will work? Why do we have to wait until May?
  • Why announce this at all, what is coming in May that won’t work on the old speakers?
  • Clearly at some point the hardware won’t be able to handle the latest updates to Spotify etc, fine - make my speaker obsolete then, not now.

From reading Ryan’s replies I get the impression that the system is being split into 2, modern and legacy. Modern will get the new features (whatever they may be), and legacy will not. He has hinted today that legacy will get some minor updates to keep them working until the point where they physically won’t handle the streams from music providers. This is ok, but I would rather it was a GUARANTEE that sonos will keep the streaming services running until it is no longer physically possible (rather than they just don’t want to cost of supporting old devices). If this does turn out to be the case then it makes this whole announcement pointless and infuriating. I think they were hoping this would lead to a spike in sales - if so they have misread the mood.

Personally I will keep running the legacy as long as my Play 5 lasts, then I will slowly wind my Sonos system down. Massive backfire for Sonos, I was going to buy a Beam this year.

S
Userlevel 1
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Really disappointed in the mentality, and I have not got any impacted devices. I’ve been slowly adding to my setup with the intention of adding a lot more for a long term sound solution. But that has stopped from today and I was looking at buying three extra speakers. I cannot trust Sonos anymore. I mentioned this to a friend and they have halted a purchase of two speakers. We have been looking at alternative solutions from other companies (with the intent of selling our current setup) and Sonos have just lost two loyal advocates.

A
Userlevel 1

Another thought from me:
I keep a spreadsheet of my medium and big-ticket purchases so I can apply depreciation costs and make sure I’m saving enough for replacements. As one does when applying depreciation, I’ve tended to use conservative estimates of how long things will last. I happened to look at it for other reasons yesterday, but noticed my Sonos items. Whilst in reality I’d expect my speakers to last 10 or even 15 years, I put them down at 7 as a conservative estimate. In reality, it’s only going to be 6 years before they’re no longer as functional as the speakers I purchased. It could have been five.

It simply doesn’t make economic sense to purchase your products if there is such a good chance they’ll only last 5 years without detriment. You need to come up with a better solution than this, or a lower price point, or I think you’ll be losing a lot of customers like me with mid-size setups (1x5, 1x3, 2x1). I was planning to expand to include a soundbar (imminent) and full home cinema (over time). I simply can’t justify the cost now.  

J

Well, this is a PR mess of epic proportions! 

I only own two Play 1s, bought around 2016, so not on the legacy product list but how long until they are and will no longer receive support? 

And if I were to buy a Sonos product today what is the shelf life of that product? I was eyeing up a Beam but given this news I think I’m going to wait and see how things develop over the next few months.

Surely, future-proofing the products is part of the development process? I appreciate it’s impossible to predict how technology will evolve but surely the products should be built with backwards capability so newer products can, at the very least, connect with older products? This would allow Sonos customers to buy newer products and keep using their existing products. 

Oh, and how come I can’t access music through “On This Phone” on my iPhone anymore? I have songs on there not available on any streaming services and would like to listen to them through my speakers. Is this not possible anymore?

Time to dust down the CD player and wallet and go analogue...

 

 

 

J
Userlevel 1

Are you having a laugh? I invested thousands in your gear over the years, just for you to decide you’re going to drop the ball - and doing so while pretending it’s all for the Greater Good ™

Have you ever heard about the concept of loyalty.

 

Can’t say I see myself reinvesting to exchange my older products when you clearly won’t mind pulling the same BS in x months/years time again. I’ll move my 8 zones to the competition, ciao. Greedy and shameless.

A
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

Now, we all can better understand what it feels like to be a Nexus 6. 

Ken_Griffiths

But you are still listing the connect as a last chance!

  1. If I buy one will it be obsolete in May
  2. If not why is my current connect being made obsolete?

Thanks,

 

Rob

They are different models of the Zone Player, this is mentioned in the announcement. Any such device manufactured after 2015 is not included in this and will still receive updates post May 2020. Clearly the older players do not have the required hardware compared to the newer models and in any event they will still work as they do now, but just not get any further software updates. Hope that help clarifies things for you.👍

P
Userlevel 3
Badge +4

Spence’s 2019 salary went from $350K to $500K plus share options (should of sold some before this like the other board guy)……….bothered……...thats what i read yesterday, but google just gave me this

https://www1.salary.com/SONOS-INC-Executive-Salaries.html

total compensation $2,353,753

 

C
Userlevel 7
Badge +1

Quote from Sonos Annual Report: Our product roadmap is largely focused on delivering products with voice control.

Might be a nice to have, but not what I bought into Sonos for and not something I’m particularly bothered about. And still not a reason legacy products should stop working - no-one expects them to miraculously become voice-controllable. 

I purchased a new beam last year and it has voice control, I deactivated it as I had no need for it, I have echos for voice, don’t need it in Sonos speakers. I need a speaker to act like a speaker, not to have a conversation with it on the meaning of life!! 
 

the solution to this issue is simple, have 2 versions of the os, one for all the new equipment and one for the legacy equipment. The legacy is will need to be maintained to ensure all equipment continue to operate as is and talk to the new equipment. Strip out all the extra stuff from the legacy os that the old hardware cannot support and then the memory etc will be sufficient. They don’t want to do this as it will cost them money.
 

unless Sonos find a much better way out of this self imposed mess, I will move off their hardware over the next few years, lost all trust in them

P
Userlevel 5
Badge +1

But you are still listing the connect as a last chance!

  1. If I buy one will it be obsolete in May
  2. If not why is my current connect being made obsolete?

Thanks,

 

Rob

They are different models of the Zone Player, this is mentioned in the announcement. Any such device manufactured after 2015 is not included in this and will still receive updates post May 2020. Clearly the older players do not have the required hardware compared to the newer models and in any event they will still work as they do now, but just not get any further software updates. Hope that help clarifies things for you.👍

But for further clarification, they will stop working as they do now as soon as your streaming service releases an incompatible API

P
Userlevel 3
Badge +4

Quote from Sonos Annual Report: Our product roadmap is largely focused on delivering products with voice control.

Might be a nice to have, but not what I bought into Sonos for and not something I’m particularly bothered about. And still not a reason legacy products should stop working - no-one expects them to miraculously become voice-controllable. 

I purchased a new beam last year and it has voice control, I deactivated it as I had no need for it, I have echos for voice, don’t need it in Sonos speakers. I need a speaker to act like a speaker, not to have a conversation with it on the meaning of life!! 
 

the solution to this issue is simple, have 2 versions of the os, one for all the new equipment and one for the legacy equipment. The legacy is will need to be maintained to ensure all equipment continue to operate as is and talk to the new equipment. Strip out all the extra stuff from the legacy os that the old hardware cannot support and then the memory etc will be sufficient. They don’t want to do this as it will cost them money.
 

unless Sonos find a much better way out of this self imposed mess, I will move off their hardware over the next few years, lost all trust in them

I hope they will do it after May, then retire other products over to legacy as and when.

This is seeing how much of a sh1te storm they get, and how much new stuff they can shift at 30% off and kill off large % of legacy stuff first.

G
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

There’s an awful lot of angst and despair in this thread (and in its predecessor). Might I suggest a wee bit of perspective is in order?

I say that as someone who 16 Sonos units in one house (the vast majority of which will be legacy) and 7 in another house (none of which are legacy - yet). I am looking at an outlay in excess of £5,000 to replace all of my legacy units with modern ones, should I choose to go down that route.

A few thoughts, which are nothing more than my personal views:

  1. Anyone who thinks that a competitor product is not going to run into this problem sooner or later is deluding themselves. Sonos hit it first because they have lead the market. The competitors will be avidly noting how to handle the PR side of this issue when they have to confront it.
  2. I have zero intention of letting this announcement disrupt my pre-planned upgrades (I have had my eye on replacing three of my units, only one of which comes close to being driven by necessity). If and when a legacy unit fails to be capable of delivering a streamed music service or internet radio, that’s the moment to look at replacing it. Not before.
  3. If - and it is a big if - the issue with older units is their memory and storage capacity, then I wonder how long it will be before a clever third party invents a little box that plugs into a legacy unit, intercepts the data sent to it, and buffers it for the legacy unit so that the legacy unit’s memory and storage is not overwhelmed.
  4. Anyone beating themselves for having recommended Sonos to friends should think again. The friends to whom I’ve made recommendations have been of full age and sound minds. I am confident that they can make their own decisions, And live with them.
  5. Sonos units are not like passive speakers or traditional amps. That’s obvious. Comparisons with speakers and amps that are 30 years old are misplaced. A better comparison would be with smartphones or computers.
  6. To criticise Sonos’s business model as one designed to make money from customers seems a bit, umm, unrealistic. Saying Sonos has done this cynically to gouge its existing customers, well, that’s a more fertile area for debate. 
  7. My main concerns going forwards are simple and pragmatic.
    1. First, will my legacy units continue to stream? Nothing I have seen or read suggests that they are going to go silent any time soon. Perhaps one day, but not soon.
    2. Secondly, if I maintain my mixed system as a single legacy system and forego updates to the modern units, will I miss out on anything useful? Frankly, I doubt that I will.
    3. Thirdly, if I instead decide to split my system into two (legacy and modern), will I be able to stream a single Spotify account to both systems at the same time? At the moment Ryan doesn’t know. Fair enough; it’s early days. But this a genuinely important issue, as our kids like to listen to stuff that isn’t what we would necessarily wish to listen to.
    4. Fourth, if I end up splitting my system, where will the dividing line be? In other words, which parts of the house will I want to have on one system and which parts will I want on other? This will in turn factor into which units to replace, and would provide a reason to replace units earlier than otherwise anticipated.
  8. I happen to think that a 30% trade in discount in these circumstances isn’t enough. The 30% trade in offer was in place a few months. Then it was an option. But if customers now feel like they are being forced to upgrade, rather than exercising an option to upgrade, then personally I think the discount should be higher than 30%. However, and it is important not to lose sight of this, there is no obligation on Sonos to offer any discount. I’ve bought iphones in the past and have had them effectively rendered EOL by iOS updates. I’ve bought computers and have had them effectively rendered EOL by increasing software demands. I don’t recall on either occasion Apple or Dell offering me a discount on my next purchase.
P
Userlevel 3
Badge +4

But you are still listing the connect as a last chance!

  1. If I buy one will it be obsolete in May
  2. If not why is my current connect being made obsolete?

Thanks,

 

Rob

They are different models of the Zone Player, this is mentioned in the announcement. Any such device manufactured after 2015 is not included in this and will still receive updates post May 2020. Clearly the older players do not have the required hardware compared to the newer models and in any event they will still work as they do now, but just not get any further software updates. Hope that help clarifies things for you.👍

But for further clarification, they will stop working as they do now as soon as your streaming service releases an incompatible API

You need a product with a 3.5mm line in, that won’t change.

G
Userlevel 2

What a disappointment ! I was proud to show off my Sonos system, now I feel embarrassed I have it. With their announcement yesterday the Sonos image has gone from a company that innovates and has class to a company that  can’t plan in the tech space and shafts their most loyal customers. 

Like many others I am ready to SCREAM at the “upgrade” offer from Sonos for my two Play5 Gen1 speakers. It means two Play 5 Gen2 will cost me AUD2315 (The initial AUD1315 for the Gen1 Play 5’s, that  Sonos will “brick”, plus the AUD1000 update cost). This will make them extremely expensive speakers.

I wrote to Sonos CEO Patrick Spene on patrick.spence@sonos.com (the email is on the Sonos site) - no response yet nor do I expect it.

Below is my email:

Dear Patrick,

Please register my extreme annoyance at the email I received today to notify me of the Sonos approach to several of your products including (relevant to me) the Play 5 Gen 1 of which I have two.

My  annoyance is for the following reasons:

1) I am being held to ransom by Sonos – basically if I don’t pay Sonos AUD1000 for 2 x Play 5 Gen2 THEN  Sonos will stop all updates to the other five “Modern” speakers in my system and (quote) “Over time, this is likely to disrupt access to services and overall functionality”

The Sonos “Update” option will mean my two Play 5 Gen2 have cost me AUD2315 (The initial AUD1315 for the Gen1 Play 5’s, that  Sonos will “brick”, plus the AUD1000 update cost). This will make them extremely expensive speakers.

2) You have only given me 4 months’ notice of this. Such a short notice sets a new low standard for notifications for ceasing software update support. If the short notification does not have a sinister motive then it is reflecting some extremely short planning horizons in Sonos.

3) Conscious of the current world concerns for a Climate Change Crisis I have been making extra efforts to minimise my carbon footprint. You are forcing me to scrap two perfectly functioning speakers adding to the crisis. 

I know innovation has been a strong point for Sonos and I understand the need for change and also that 5 years is a long time in the technology scene.

My annoyance is in the way Sonos is doing it.

Two suggestions that would make the pain more palatable are:

1) Provide a motherboard upgrade at lower cost and retain the remainder of the robust and elegant Play 5 Gen1.  What is needed ? Some more memory, a new processor? Surely this will cost less than the $1,000  and be less wasteful than the notified approach.

2) The 30% trade-in is too low. To begin with it is not really 30% since I can buy a Play 5 Gen2 for $645 which is already $104 or 13.9% less than you list price. So really you are offering 22.5% credit on the $645 going price. I think for two I could do a better price.

So increase your credit for updating and start at 50% and up of you list price of $749

I believe that how you handle this will be a determinant in the future of Sonos.

Regards,

JG

My current system: 2 x Play5 Gen1, 2 x Play 3, 2 x Sonos One, and 1 x Boost (recently updated from Bridge at a cost of $104) – Total investment  AUD3050

 

 

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