Contributor I

LG C9 + Arc + UB820 / Multichannel PCM for DTS Blu-Ray discs

Forum|Forum|5 years ago
November 17, 2020
344 replies
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I’m running an LG C9 with a Panasonic UB820 Blu-ray player, Sonos Arc + Sub gen 3 + One SL surrounds. The lack of DTS support on the Arc has been frustrating for non Dolby encoded Blu-ray discs, so I have been eagerly awaiting the multichannel PCM update.

It’s finally arrived (thanks, Sonos!) and I tried playing a DTS encoded Blu-ray and… no dice. Still stereo PCM 2.0. Has anyone running a similar set-up managed to get 5.1 PCM output from the Arc?

The C9 supports eARC and multichannel PCM, I’m using 48gbps HDMI cables that support up to 8k60Hz, all of the devices are up to date, I have the C9 set to PCM with eArc enabled, DTS output set to PCM on the UB820… I’m really at a loss here. Any ideas or suggested settings?

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Z

zad

Lyricist III

@GuitarSuperstar After some further testing..

I’m using the One Upon A Time In Hollywood 4K Blu Ray since it’s main audio track is DTS-MA, and all other languages are in DD 5.1

The DD tracks (Passthrough or Auto to the Arc) show up as DD 5.1 in the Sonos App, and give me clearly distinct sounds from each channel.

The DTS-MA track (PCM to the Arm) the audio volume is noticeably lower, and the sounds are not nearly as distinct.

So I’m exactly sure what this all boils down to. All i know is by using the device connector and setting the inputs to the proper device / brand I’m able to get some kind of surround. That wasn’t happening before at all. (unless i set the BluRay audio downmix to Surround Encoded)

G

GuitarSuperstar

Lead Maestro

@zad Unfortunately, it sounds like you are just getting Stereo PCM 2.0 with the same audio playing through your surrounds. The fact that the DD 5.1 track sounds better than the DTS-MA (or converted PCM 5.1) audio track is very telling.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi

L

Laird M Malamed

Enthusiast I

I received my HDFury Arcana today and I have some positive preliminary results to share, certainly in regards to the Panasonic 820 output. I need to do more tests. But so far, success with DTS multichannel to PCM Multichannel into the Sonos Arc while retaining correct Atmos playback in True HD format.

Here is my set up:

Sources:

Panasonic 820 4k Player

Apple TV 4K

Tivo Bolt

(I have a Nintendo Switch, but I have not connected it to the TV to try with this.)

Display: LG 55” C9 (2019)

Audio: Sonos Arc 5.1 set up

All devices are on latest firmware.

The Arcana arrived via DHL from Taiwan. I ordered on Jan 1, it shipped on Jan 4 and arrived today, Jan 8. Product arrives in a blister pack and includes the Arcana, a USB cable and a power plug (with US plug in my case). No documentation - that is all online. Firmware came as .79 (which was released in Nov in parallel with the Arc’s update to support PCM multichannel audio). I updated, via USB stick, to the December release which is .80 and that fixed some Xbox items according to the notes. Arcana build quality is fine. Not super great, but survivable for a part that likely just sits without much interaction. Menus are nicely laid out and easy to read on the OLED screen.

Happily, my theory that I could use the TV as switcher was accurate for the non-820 sources!

My set up now:

820 via 8k ethernet HDMI cable to the Arcana HDMI in (I doubt I need this high a cable for this, but it is what I had)

Arcana HDMI video out to LG input 2 (ARC port), with a 18 gbps /ethernet cable

Arcana HDMI eARC output to the Sonos input via 18 gbps ethernet

AppleTV 4K to LG input 1

Tivo to LG Input 4

(the 820 used to be in 3 on the LG, hence the gap)

820 has Dolby tracks in bitstream format for output

820 has DTS tracks going out via PCM for output

BR Secondary audio is off

From the Hobbit 4k disc, I get Atmos (True HD) to the Sonos - as expected

From the LA Phil 100th Anniversary Disc, I get 2.0 PCM from the 2.0 PCM track AND….

7.1 (but only 5.1 source) from the DTS MA track. (This disc features a 2D and a 5.1 mix.)

From the new Eiger Sanction blu-ray release, I get PCM 2.0 from the DTS MA track (which might be in 1.0 format)

I am sending 4k 4:4:4 picture (native for the Hobbit, upsampled by the Panasonic for 1080 sources). The Arcana can do this too, but I did not see the need for that.

(Note, I tried to adjust the Panasonic to match the disc channels - e.g. 5.1 for 5.1 - but it seems to always want to send 7.1 - even when I changed the down mix settings. I need to tweak more.)

When I switch to the Apple TV on input 1, the LG correctly passes the bitstream back to the Arcana via eARC, which routes it to the Sonos. (I think it’s crucial to the have the Panasonic off for this to work.) I can get 5.1, Atmos (DD+), and 2.0 PCM - all as expected based on the programming source. Picture is 4K Dolby Vision when the source allows.

Here I have a flag on synchronization between the TV and Sonos. I feel like when I watched Rise of Skywalker via Disney+ that the Atmos audio was slightly late which would be attributed to the extra hop through the Arcana. However, when I watched the same movie via my Apple iTunes Movies version, it was in sync. I looked at Rebecca on Netflix which has Atmos, and it seemed in sync or very close. I did run the Wireless Sync on the AppleTV. but I am not sure that impacts wired connections. There are no settings on the TV that I know of to make the picture lag - only to make the sound lag which is not helpful. I tried both Passthrough and Auto for the ARC Out setting (and with bitstream as the format).

I only flipped through a few channels on the Tivo and it all seemed in sync. The Tivo is sending Dolby Digital through and it seemed in sync.

So, I think I have what I want. Great 4k player that can drive the LG and Sonos with any disc I want to play and with the correct channel output and nicely upsample lower res images. Ability to use multiple sources with the LG and not need a switcher as well.

More to follow as I play around more this weekend and watch feature length content.

And do I think this should be necessary? Heck no! As noted in a previous post, having to spend $200 more to solve a connection problem seems wrong. But if the issue is with the LG CEC, my instinct is that they won’t fix a 2019 problem such as this unless it were impacted a number of players. They might for the 2020 CX line, and perhaps for whatever they announce next week at CES.

Hope my initial tests prove reliable and repeatable over the next few days!

Thanks for info. Question: can you still output 5.1 LPCM from Apple TV (or another device, such as PS5)? I thought that Apple TV needed to be hooked up to the Arcana for the 5.1 LPCM to work with Sonos Arc and Arcana.

Yes, I am getting 5.1 as well as Atmos from the Apple TV and TiVo in my setup. They are passing to the C9 then out the eARC to the Arcana to the Sonos. The Arcana will route the ARC/eARC signal this way as long and does not change the audio in any way. So effectively, I have an expensive device solving the 820 LG Sonos handshake issue. No PS5 or Xbox to test. I have my Switch and see what that produces.

The only “issue” I have remaining is that the 820 only outputs DTS as either 2.0 (for 2.0 source tracks) or 7.1. Even mono tracks (from old Criterion discs, for example) go out as 7.1. They are still right in playback at the Sonos - mono sound, no surrounds. So, might be how the Panasonic handles setting anything - it sends 7.1 but with 6.1 of that silent. Not sure. Sounds fine which is good. This situation is not impacted by the surround downmix settings. 7.1 expansion can be on or off.

L

Laird M Malamed

Enthusiast I

I received my HDFury Arcana today and I have some positive preliminary results to share, certainly in regards to the Panasonic 820 output. I need to do more tests. But so far, success with DTS multichannel to PCM Multichannel into the Sonos Arc while retaining correct Atmos playback in True HD format.

…. (see my original post above for the detail)

Thanks for info. Question: can you still output 5.1 LPCM from Apple TV (or another device, such as PS5)? I thought that Apple TV needed to be hooked up to the Arcana for the 5.1 LPCM to work with Sonos Arc and Arcana.

Yes, I am getting 5.1 as well as Atmos from the Apple TV and TiVo in my setup. They are passing to the C9 then out the eARC to the Arcana to the Sonos. The Arcana will route the ARC/eARC signal this way as long and does not change the audio in any way. So effectively, I have an expensive device solving the 820 LG Sonos handshake issue. No PS5 or Xbox to test. I have my Switch and see what that produces.

An update, but one with good news, I believe!

I think I have found the set up which works and solves the problem of this thread! I am now using the HDFury Arcana as an intermediary between the Panasonic 820 and the LG C9 by connecting the 820 to the HDMI in of the Arcana and then using the Arcana HDMI out (NOT the eARC out) to the C9 and into a regular HDMI input (Number 3 in my case). This is absolutely not the point of the Arcana device, but amazingly it has enabled multichannel audio between the 820 and the Sonos Arc (via the LG).

The Arcana has a setting (not enabled by default) to pass the incoming audio unmodified out the HDMI Out to the TV (in parallel with sending it to the eARC channel).

It turns out that @joeytvmusic97 was correct - I was not getting 5.1 audio from the AppleTV in my previous set up. That set up had the 820 into the Arcana, and the Arcana feeding both the Sonos and the LG. In this mode, the LG will also pass audio back up to the Arcana via ARC which routes it out to the eARC port on the Arcana. Into the C9 was my AppleTV 4K and Tivo Bolt. However, while an Apple TV Dolby Atmos signal would pass through the C9 to the Sonos, straight 5.1 audio would not. Dolby Digital worked fine out of the TIVo. The LG apps all worked too (as they encode in Dolby Digital). No idea why the 5.1 PCM did not make it out from the ATV though. I contacted HDFury on their Discord server (which was great by the way), and basically they told me that my set up was not a defined one for them. They recommended a HDMI switcher ahead of the Arcana (this set up they show on their website).

For a lark, I tried this: Since the Arcana will pass the audio from the 820 through the HDMI Out to the TV, maybe this extra handshake would enable the 820 to actually send out multichannel audio. That does appear to be the case. And as a test, I tried to bypass the Arcana by using either of the two cables I had in the chain (so as to eliminate a cable as the issue), and both immediately reverted back to 2.0 PCM. I put the Arcana back in-between, and presto, 7.1 MC again.

Because the Arcana is now not in the pathway for the ATV or TiVo, all of that audio works exactly as expected. I can get Atmos, 5.1 and 2.0 audio (depending on the source) from the ATV. I can get 2.0 and 5.1 Dolby Digital from the TiVo. I tried my Switch too, and Zelda produced 5.1 PCM audio as well.

So, it appears, at least for me, that using the Arcana in this odd way - effectively skipping what it was designed to do - fixed whatever the error is between the 820 - LG - Sonos combo. And I have my preferred wiring - one component to each LG input, and the LG to the Sonos. The LG acts as the switcher between units (and CEC correctly switches input with the remote for each).

It would be great to get someone else to test this!

Laird

Here’s a list of the settings and media I tested this evening:

LG Settings

Audio: HDMI ARC out (Passthrough mode)

eARC on

CEC is on

LG Input 2 eARC connected directly to the Sonos Arc

Panasonic Settings

HDMI-> 4K output on (1080 etc being upsampled which is why I wanted the Panasonic in the first place)

HDMI-> Advanced-> 7.1 Channel Reformatting is OFF (but does not seem to make a difference)

Audio-> Digital Audio Output->Dolby BITSTREAM and DTS to PCM

Secondary Audio is off

Downmix on or off does not matter (which makes sense since this if the optical output I think)

Viera (Panasonic’s CEC) is turned on

HDFury Arcana

820 plugged into HDMI In

HDMI out to LG Input 3

Audio setting: “eARC and TV HDMI” outputs enabled -

but eARC HDMI connection NOT used! Port is empty.

AppleTV 4K

Connected to LG Input 1

Video: 4K match content and resolution format

Audio - Auto with Atmos turned on

HDMI control is on (CEC on ATV)

Test Media

LA Phil 100th Anniversary Blu-Ray

DTS-MA 5.1 Track -> Multichannel PCM 7.1

LPCM 2.0 -> Stereo PCM 2.0 (note - the Sonos treats this as if playing a music track and expands audio into the surrounds)

Jean Renoir’s La Marseilles

DTS-HD MA 2.0 Track -> Stereo PCM 2.0

Here because this is 2 track mono, the audio is only coming from the Sonos center (as I would expect)

The Hobbit Unexpected Journey Extended 4K UHD

Dolby Atmos -> Dolby Atmos (True HD)

Dolby Digital (Foreign audio) -> Dolby Digital 5.1

Psycho 4K

DTS:X -> PCM MC 7.1 (this is the new surround mix done for the 4k release)

DTS MA 2.0 -> PCM 2.0 (and sounds mono which this should be as the original track was mono)

Chimes at Midnight

LPCM 1 ch ->PCM 5.1 (but sounds correctly mono)

AppleTV Playback

Disney+

Rise of Skywalker correctly plays with Dolby Atmos (Dolby Digital)

Star Wars Resistance correctly plays with multichannel 5.1

Criterion Channel

La Chienne (1931) - correct 2.0 PCM output (and sound mono)

Nintendo Switch LG input 4 - in Auto Audio mode

Legend of Zelda

5.1 Multichannel as expected

J

joeytvmusic97

Lyricist III

I received my HDFury Arcana today and I have some positive preliminary results to share, certainly in regards to the Panasonic 820 output. I need to do more tests. But so far, success with DTS multichannel to PCM Multichannel into the Sonos Arc while retaining correct Atmos playback in True HD format.

…. (see my original post above for the detail)

Thanks for info. Question: can you still output 5.1 LPCM from Apple TV (or another device, such as PS5)? I thought that Apple TV needed to be hooked up to the Arcana for the 5.1 LPCM to work with Sonos Arc and Arcana.

Yes, I am getting 5.1 as well as Atmos from the Apple TV and TiVo in my setup. They are passing to the C9 then out the eARC to the Arcana to the Sonos. The Arcana will route the ARC/eARC signal this way as long and does not change the audio in any way. So effectively, I have an expensive device solving the 820 LG Sonos handshake issue. No PS5 or Xbox to test. I have my Switch and see what that produces.

An update, but one with good news, I believe!

I think I have found the set up which works and solves the problem of this thread! I am now using the HDFury Arcana as an intermediary between the Panasonic 820 and the LG C9 by connecting the 820 to the HDMI in of the Arcana and then using the Arcana HDMI out (NOT the eARC out) to the C9 and into a regular HDMI input (Number 3 in my case). This is absolutely not the point of the Arcana device, but amazingly it has enabled multichannel audio between the 820 and the Sonos Arc (via the LG).

The Arcana has a setting (not enabled by default) to pass the incoming audio unmodified out the HDMI Out to the TV (in parallel with sending it to the eARC channel).

It turns out that @joeytvmusic97 was correct - I was not getting 5.1 audio from the AppleTV in my previous set up. That set up had the 820 into the Arcana, and the Arcana feeding both the Sonos and the LG. In this mode, the LG will also pass audio back up to the Arcana via ARC which routes it out to the eARC port on the Arcana. Into the C9 was my AppleTV 4K and Tivo Bolt. However, while an Apple TV Dolby Atmos signal would pass through the C9 to the Sonos, straight 5.1 audio would not. Dolby Digital worked fine out of the TIVo. The LG apps all worked too (as they encode in Dolby Digital). No idea why the 5.1 PCM did not make it out from the ATV though. I contacted HDFury on their Discord server (which was great by the way), and basically they told me that my set up was not a defined one for them. They recommended a HDMI switcher ahead of the Arcana (this set up they show on their website).

For a lark, I tried this: Since the Arcana will pass the audio from the 820 through the HDMI Out to the TV, maybe this extra handshake would enable the 820 to actually send out multichannel audio. That does appear to be the case. And as a test, I tried to bypass the Arcana by using either of the two cables I had in the chain (so as to eliminate a cable as the issue), and both immediately reverted back to 2.0 PCM. I put the Arcana back in-between, and presto, 7.1 MC again.

Because the Arcana is now not in the pathway for the ATV or TiVo, all of that audio works exactly as expected. I can get Atmos, 5.1 and 2.0 audio (depending on the source) from the ATV. I can get 2.0 and 5.1 Dolby Digital from the TiVo. I tried my Switch too, and Zelda produced 5.1 PCM audio as well.

So, it appears, at least for me, that using the Arcana in this odd way - effectively skipping what it was designed to do - fixed whatever the error is between the 820 - LG - Sonos combo. And I have my preferred wiring - one component to each LG input, and the LG to the Sonos. The LG acts as the switcher between units (and CEC correctly switches input with the remote for each).

It would be great to get someone else to test this!

Laird

Here’s a list of the settings and media I tested this evening:

LG Settings

Audio: HDMI ARC out (Passthrough mode)

eARC on

CEC is on

LG Input 2 eARC connected directly to the Sonos Arc

Panasonic Settings

HDMI-> 4K output on (1080 etc being upsampled which is why I wanted the Panasonic in the first place)

HDMI-> Advanced-> 7.1 Channel Reformatting is OFF (but does not seem to make a difference)

Audio-> Digital Audio Output->Dolby BITSTREAM and DTS to PCM

Secondary Audio is off

Downmix on or off does not matter (which makes sense since this if the optical output I think)

Viera (Panasonic’s CEC) is turned on

HDFury Arcana

820 plugged into HDMI In

HDMI out to LG Input 3

Audio setting: “eARC and TV HDMI” outputs enabled -

but eARC HDMI connection NOT used! Port is empty.

AppleTV 4K

Connected to LG Input 1

Video: 4K match content and resolution format

Audio - Auto with Atmos turned on

HDMI control is on (CEC on ATV)

Test Media

LA Phil 100th Anniversary Blu-Ray

DTS-MA 5.1 Track -> Multichannel PCM 7.1

LPCM 2.0 -> Stereo PCM 2.0 (note - the Sonos treats this as if playing a music track and expands audio into the surrounds)

Jean Renoir’s La Marseilles

DTS-HD MA 2.0 Track -> Stereo PCM 2.0

Here because this is 2 track mono, the audio is only coming from the Sonos center (as I would expect)

The Hobbit Unexpected Journey Extended 4K UHD

Dolby Atmos -> Dolby Atmos (True HD)

Dolby Digital (Foreign audio) -> Dolby Digital 5.1

Psycho 4K

DTS:X -> PCM MC 7.1 (this is the new surround mix done for the 4k release)

DTS MA 2.0 -> PCM 2.0 (and sounds mono which this should be as the original track was mono)

Chimes at Midnight

LPCM 1 ch ->PCM 5.1 (but sounds correctly mono)

AppleTV Playback

Disney+

Rise of Skywalker correctly plays with Dolby Atmos (Dolby Digital)

Star Wars Resistance correctly plays with multichannel 5.1

Criterion Channel

La Chienne (1931) - correct 2.0 PCM output (and sound mono)

Nintendo Switch LG input 4 - in Auto Audio mode

Legend of Zelda

5.1 Multichannel as expected

Thank you - I will try this!

G

GuitarSuperstar

Lead Maestro

@Laird M Malamed Don’t overcomplicate your setup with the Arcana. The easiest way to get all of your devices to play the audio you want with the Arcana is using an HDMI switch. I use a 3-port ROOFULL switch from Amazon and it works great. Here is my setup:

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi

J

joeytvmusic97

Lyricist III

@Laird M Malamed Don’t overcomplicate your setup with the Arcana. The easiest way to get all of your devices to play the audio you want with the Arcana is using an HDMI switch. I use a 3-port ROOFULL switch from Amazon and it works great. Here is my setup:

When I tried this setup with my CX/Arcana/Arc/Panasonic, the Roofull was unable to auto switch between the inputs (PS5, Panasonic, Apple TV).

G

GuitarSuperstar

Lead Maestro

@joeytvmusic97 Yes, my switch won’t auto switch either. I have programmed my Harmony remote and hub to do the switching instead.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi

L

Laird M Malamed

Enthusiast I

@Laird M Malamed Don’t overcomplicate your setup with the Arcana. The easiest way to get all of your devices to play the audio you want with the Arcana is using an HDMI switch. I use a 3-port ROOFULL switch from Amazon and it works great. Here is my setup:

Thanks, @GuitarSuperstar for the comments and diagram.

I think the difference in our set ups is that my LG C9 (and presumably others’ CX) have eARC functionality and can drive the Sonos Arc directly with lossless fidelity of Dolby Atmos. So, since my solution seems to work (and of course I know this is all preliminary), it is actually less complicated because it does not have the Roofull at all. This gets me around the issue you and @joeytvmusic97 raised with having to program another remote.

I also am dealing with minimal room behind the TV for more components.

Anyway, it’s been a learning experience and I love playing with this stuff.

I

iBoyley

Trending Lyricist I

We (myself included) really need to stope quoting peoples already quoted responses.

It seems that having “something” between the UB820 and TV allows for LPCM as we are all expecting (those of us with CX’s anyway)

Looking at Lairds Arcana settings above - i wonder if putting “something” (i.e. a hdmi switch or something in between the UB820 and TV, would provide the solution that we are all looking for

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