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Question

Using split system to see S2 problems for myself

  • 15 July 2024
  • 9 replies
  • 51 views

My SONOS life goes back to the ZP80/ZP100/CR100 days. I'm currently running an S1 system with 9 Zones (sorry, Rooms), including SONOS speakers and SONOS interface boxes driving powered and un-powered non-SONOS speakers. I have no serious complaints with my current setup, but always assumed that sooner or later I'd decide to upgrade to S2 in order to use some of the newer SONOS equipment. In fact, I had several thousand dollars worth (yes, even after the 30% upgrade credits) of S2 gear in my sonos.com shopping cart with finger poised over the "Place Order" button when I stumbled upon the firestorm surrounding the May S2 upgrade. My shopping cart is now empty.

I'm neither a network nor audio engineer, but I've spent over 60 years in IT and know a bit about both of those fields and more than a bit about large-system evolution, distribution, and support. I figured I'd just monitor the discussions here on the SONOS forum and on reddit and Facebook and watch for the dust to settle. The dust remains thick and may well live longer than I do, but, with the help of Andy Pennell's impressive July 6 LinkedIn article, one thing seems clear to me: The current SONOS S2 system requires a far more robust network infrastructure -- both local connectivity and the Internet path to music services and the SONOS Cloud -- than is needed for satisfactory operation of either S1 or pre-May S2. And there seems to be no way to tell in advance, even after reading both https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/sonos-system-requirements and https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/supported-wifi-modes-and-security- standards-for-sonos-products, whether my current Comcast 1Gb router provides the network capacity I'd need for an S2 upgrade. (Yes, I've seen the oft-repeated observations on this forum that standard ISP routers are garbage and anything other than an expensive mesh network is positively Neanderthal. Thanks for sharing.) What I absolutely do not want to do is install a bunch of new SONOS equipment and then discover my network won't handle it, and likewise don't want to go to the expense and trouble of installing a new network that wasn't actually needed.

Now, as it happens, in anticipation of moving to S2, I've already replaced several of my ZPs with Amps and Ports, which I have running in S1 mode. But they are, of course, S2-capable, and so I have this idea on which I'd love some knowledgable feedback. Seems to me I can select a couple of my S2-capable interface boxes, remove them from my S1 network, configure them for S2, download an S2 controller, and run both an S1 and an S2 system at the same time. The split would need to be done carefully in order not to perturb the operation of the remaining S1 system, but I'm pretty certain it can be done. And, most important, un-done. That is, regardless of what I learn about running S2 on my network, I can revert back to a fully S1 system if I want to. Seems I'd actually get a much better idea of what all the shouting is about if I try it myself, and this seems like a zero-risk way to do that.

Thoughts?

 

9 replies

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

The S1-S2 updates cannot be undone at this time (*) with the new mobile app. Sonos have removed that feature.

(*) unless you have an iPhone 7 specifically per other threads.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
press250
Userlevel 7
Badge +14

The S1-S2 updates cannot be undone at this time with the new mobile app. Sonos have removed that feature.

Hi @controlav, would the v16.1 Android app do the trick?

slworona
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

@controlav Thanks for that, might have saved me an unpleasant surprise! But let me dive a bit deeper.

 

I know when my Amps and Ports arrived, they were configured for S2, but when I selected them to be added to my S1 system, I was given the option of resetting them to S1. Are you saying that it’s no longer possible for a new out-of-the-box Amp to be connected to an S1 system? That seems unlikely, since the SONOS Amp User’s Guide https://www.sonos.com/en-us/guides/amp says explicitly that it works with either S1 or S2.

 

Or are you saying that if I reset my S1 Amp to S2, then that change could not then be undone? That would mean that the Amp or the controller can tell the difference between an Amp that came from SONOS configured for S2 and an Amp that the customer switched back to S2 after it was on S1 for a while. Nothing’s impossible, but that would be a bit odd, don’t you think?

press250
Userlevel 7
Badge +14

Are you saying that it’s no longer possible for a new out-of-the-box Amp to be connected to an S1 system? That seems unlikely, since the SONOS Amp User’s Guide https://www.sonos.com/en-us/guides/amp says explicitly that it works with either S1 or S2.

Hi @slworona, I envy you in that you’ve not had to learn just how fubar things are for many users!

Downgrading from S2 to S1 is not yet supported in the new app. The documentation you cite was correct as of April 2024, stopped being correct as of May 2024, and will likely be correct again at some undetermined date.

Nothing’s impossible, but that would be a bit odd, don’t you think?

My good man, we’ve lost track of how many things are a bit odd! “Clear Queue” is hardly an advanced post-doc feature, but it has not yet been implemented in the new app.

slworona
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

@press250 All I know about S2, old or new, is what I read on the Internet, so I appreciate all clafification and amplification from those with hands-on experience. On the other hand, even FUBAR systems must obey basic laws of cause and effect, so I’ll persist in trying to untangle some threads, if it’s not too annoying to you-all in the trenches. To wit: The S2-to-S1 downgrade of an Amp would not be initiated by the S2 app (that is, the S2 controller) but, rather, by the S1 app. I don’t have an S2 app anywhere, but I initiated the downgrade of my out-of-the-box Amp from its S2 firmware to S1 by telling my S1 app to add it to the existing S1 system. There followed an interval where the S2 Amp apparently lobotomized itself and emerged from its coma as an S1 Amp. So I don’t see how anything in the S2 app -- old, new, or vaporware -- would impact the ability of the S1 app to initiate the downgrade of an Amp from S2 to S1. If nothing else, I should be able to reset the Amp to its factory settings, at which point I’m back where my experience tells me my good old S1 app can turn it into an S1 Amp.

press250
Userlevel 7
Badge +14

Hi @slworona, happy to help in any way … and happy to learn new things from you, like the ins-and-outs of downgrading to S1!

My earlier comments were based on this ...

  • In the v16.1 Android app, I see Settings > Support > Downgrade Product to S1
  • In the new app (Android and iOS) that option is not present

… and I should have noted that I have no visibility into the S1 app. Perhaps folks with a pure S2 setup needs the “Downgrade Product to S1” functionality, but someone in your shoes with a functioning S1 setup does not?

slworona
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

Thanks again, @press250. Yes, nothing in my experience or analysis says anything about downgrading an entire system from S2 tro S1. I can absolutely understand how that would be a one-way path, where back-tracking would require code written explicitly for that purpose. No surprise if such code doesn’t yet exist. The surprise, I guess, would be hearing that SONOS recognized the need for such code as part of its rollout of the new S2 system.

press250
Userlevel 7
Badge +14

I think we’re on the same page @slworona?

  • The “Downgrade Product to S1” feature was in “April 2024” version of the S2 app
  • That feature is not present in the “May 2024” version of the S2 app
  • It may make a reappearance in some yet-to-be-determined version of the S2 app

Back-tracking (from S1 to S2?) is not something that Sonos has commented on.

Should you decide to experiment with an S2 setup, by all means let us know how it goes!

slworona
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

@press250 I will certainly do that. Thanks for your patient help!

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