Thanks in advance for advice on this guys, this is a bit of a long post but hopefully some of you more familiar with the system can follow along and help!
i currently have no Sonos but looking to get set up 1st with a Playbar (only concern is I really feel like an update won't be far away and a little worried ill jump i nat just the wrong time!) with Sub. Also really interested in incorporating my outdoor sound, especially coming into Summer here in Aus and thats where this multi part question comes in.
I will be powering 1 maybe 2 pairs (off the house is approx 8mx4m / 23'x13' pergola, then from that a 20x8m/65'x23' area so i may end up with a pair on the house and a pair on the end of the pergola).
If not 1/2 pairs then 1/2 single point stereo speakers which I assume will then have the same considerations.
It will be mostly for music/radio streaming, but the living area opens onto this so the option of playing tv sound via the player but also grouping with outside would be attractive as the screen can be turned to be viewed outside. This isn't a critical function but one that'd be helpful none the less.
so im wondering how appropriate the Connect:amp vs the Amp may be in different forms.
So the questions I have that will help my decision are:
Sound delay:
Not an issue with the new Amp I understand. With the Connect:amp, does that only exist over Wifi and if I add an ethernet connection will overcome it? The Connect:amp could sit in the entertainment unit which is either next to or has direct access for wired connections with all of the player, internet router, tv. Would utilising any of these wired connections mean that when grouping Playbar to outdoor speakers (connect:amp) the sound delay is removed?
Powering the speakers:
The Amp has more power but would the Connect Amp be powerful enough to handle this (say if using a 2 pairs of atrium 5s or 2 single Atrium 8s)?
If no for connect Amp, then would 2 connect amps vs 1 Amp be a viable option (assuming that connect amp will become available at reducing prices or 2nd hand as the new amp comes available so may be similar cost for 2v1 or at least similar). See below for further consideration of this option...
Creating/controlling Zones (if/when I end up with the 2 pairs out there):
I believe both the Amp and Connect Amp will only create 1 zone correct?
Having only 1 sound to all 4 outdoor speakers is no issue as thats all I will ever do out there. BUT, can the volume for the 2 pairs be independently controlled (or even have 1 pair on and 1 off), or only for all 4 pairs together.
If they cant be controlled independently, would 2 connect Amps become potentially more appealing that 1 new Amp?
Assuming that the 2 v 1 option both output similar power in total and were somewhat comparable cost, is the only negative of the 2 x connect amp the extra equipment and space involved but then gaining the extra control over volume in return?
Thanks for your advice and helping me sort through these possibilities!
Sonos amp / connect:amp for outdoor speaker set up
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Hi. Just a few quick thoughts that may help, without going into all the detail:
1. Ethernet vs wireless has zero impact on lag.
2. I would not contemplate buying a Connect:Amp now the Amp is in prospect - Amp seems markedly higher spec, although of course we haven't heard it yet. The C:A was never meant for TV application.
3. You are correct that only one stream from one device, and no independent control of volume. But a relatively cheap speaker switch (preferably impedance managed) would allow you to control the volume independently.
Hope that is of some help
1. Ethernet vs wireless has zero impact on lag.
2. I would not contemplate buying a Connect:Amp now the Amp is in prospect - Amp seems markedly higher spec, although of course we haven't heard it yet. The C:A was never meant for TV application.
3. You are correct that only one stream from one device, and no independent control of volume. But a relatively cheap speaker switch (preferably impedance managed) would allow you to control the volume independently.
Hope that is of some help
Thanks John for your input, certainly helps in some ways confirm my suspicions and adding more knowledge
1. Dam, I was hoping that may have been a winner.
2. Certainly can se the reasoning on that. I guess I am thinking if Amp is $1000AUD and connect:amp RRP is $750 and already $670 some places, that if it cam down to say $600 or even closer to $500 and approaching 2 for the price of 1 Amp situation then if it serves the function (and in some way better by having 2 zones) surely its a consideration.
3. would that then be controlled externally to sonos?
eg would it be that sonos would have 1 volume control and physically at the switch id adjust the ratio between the 2 outputs?
1. Dam, I was hoping that may have been a winner.
2. Certainly can se the reasoning on that. I guess I am thinking if Amp is $1000AUD and connect:amp RRP is $750 and already $670 some places, that if it cam down to say $600 or even closer to $500 and approaching 2 for the price of 1 Amp situation then if it serves the function (and in some way better by having 2 zones) surely its a consideration.
3. would that then be controlled externally to sonos?
eg would it be that sonos would have 1 volume control and physically at the switch id adjust the ratio between the 2 outputs?
Further thought: if you group other speakers with a Sonos TV audio set up then there is a slight lag on the grouped speakers for TV audio. That may or may not matter depending on location / use. Music sources will sync perfectly.
To your point 2. Yes that's a reasonable argument. It comes down to how much the separate streams are important to you. We are slightly in the dark as we don't know how good the Amp is yet!
On point 3 - yes, that's right. I'd guess there must be ones out there with a remote control though, possibly even an app, but it wouldn't be quite so convenient as everything in the Sonos app
On point 3 - yes, that's right. I'd guess there must be ones out there with a remote control though, possibly even an app, but it wouldn't be quite so convenient as everything in the Sonos app
You mention a Playbar. How are you planning to deploy the Amp(s)? One for surrounds, one for outdoor speakers? Or independent of Playbar?
I want to be clear about the lag issue. The Amp will differ from the Connect:Amp, in terms of lag, only where they are being used as the main TV speakers, where the Amp will have a smaller lag. If the C:A or Amp are driving speakers independent of a TV Playbar set up, then their lags are the same. If you group the Playbar with a C:A or Amp, there will be imperfect sync for TV sound and perfect sync for music.
At least, that is my best understanding!
At least, that is my best understanding!
The seperate streams aren't important (would always have the same content), just the ability to have variable volumes may be useful but again non essential.
Its a good point you make about having a connector that had app/remote control volume control as while it wouldn't be as convenient as sonos app, given content control wouldn't be necessary, that wouldn't be too bad at all for the usage requirements.
The amps would be purely independent of the Playbar.
The link of them with the Playbar would really only be if I had say a footy game on the TV and had people around for a BBQ and wanted to be able to have the audio from the tv also playing on the outside speakers so people could watch/listen from that area on more than just the playbar speakers coming through to the outside.
You can probably see its not an essential element, music would be the 90% function. Just nice to know it may be able to work, at least well enough that its not too annoying (ie i minor lag I may be able to put up with).
Aside from your advice re waiting for the new amp for superior performance, any inout on how adequate the connect amp would be to power speakers in that setting?
Its a good point you make about having a connector that had app/remote control volume control as while it wouldn't be as convenient as sonos app, given content control wouldn't be necessary, that wouldn't be too bad at all for the usage requirements.
The amps would be purely independent of the Playbar.
The link of them with the Playbar would really only be if I had say a footy game on the TV and had people around for a BBQ and wanted to be able to have the audio from the tv also playing on the outside speakers so people could watch/listen from that area on more than just the playbar speakers coming through to the outside.
You can probably see its not an essential element, music would be the 90% function. Just nice to know it may be able to work, at least well enough that its not too annoying (ie i minor lag I may be able to put up with).
Aside from your advice re waiting for the new amp for superior performance, any inout on how adequate the connect amp would be to power speakers in that setting?
Ah, thanks for that further clarification, that certainly does change things a bit too as they certainly wouldn't be the main tv speakers.
so i guess again 95% of the time it'd be the same issue.
although the newer amp would give the option of connecting that direct to the tv for times I did want that set up, however, it'd be a less convenient option that the native set up (I guess I could have playbar and connect amp always connected and have to change the chosen output in tv settings).
I assume if I had the outdoor speakers as the main tv speaker (via the new amp) and then grouped to the playbar (or any other speaker for that matter), the same lag would exist but in reverse (playbar delayed) and its not only an issue when going to the amp
so i guess again 95% of the time it'd be the same issue.
although the newer amp would give the option of connecting that direct to the tv for times I did want that set up, however, it'd be a less convenient option that the native set up (I guess I could have playbar and connect amp always connected and have to change the chosen output in tv settings).
I assume if I had the outdoor speakers as the main tv speaker (via the new amp) and then grouped to the playbar (or any other speaker for that matter), the same lag would exist but in reverse (playbar delayed) and its not only an issue when going to the amp
OK then for your application the C:A and Amp have identical lag characteristics so that isn't a consideration. Either would be perfect sync for music, imperfect for TV, but the lag is small. If everyone is outside you could mute the Playbar anyway and for sports a tiny lag is irrelevant. I would guess the Connect:Amp would be fine for driving 1 pair of outdoors, not sure about 2 pairs off one C:A - depends on speakers and how loud you want to go! Note that for 2 pairs you need to have 8 Ohm speakers. 2 pairs of 6 Ohm or lower is not safe.
Our last posts crossed. I would forget having outside speakers as the main TV speakers. One thing you might consider is using a new Amp plus a pair of speakers as your TV speakers instead of the Playbar, although that changes nothing as far as outside goes. It may not be best for you. But I currently have a Playbar for my media room TV, and in the same room, independent for music, a seriously good hifi and speakers, linked with a Sonos Connect. My plan is to replace the Playbar, Connect and the hifi with a new Sonos Amp to drive the hifi speakers, which will become my TV speakers as well as music speakers. Just thought I'd mention, given your concerns about the Playbar.
This will be subject to audio testing before I ditch the conventional hifi, but I suspect the Amp will be pretty good.
This will be subject to audio testing before I ditch the conventional hifi, but I suspect the Amp will be pretty good.
yeah thanks heaps for your help, you've at least removed one factor from consideration!
I guess if the connect:amp has sufficient power then I am saving at this point at least $330 and likely more onnce the Amp actually comes out, then if it wasnt enough power and prices had dropped enough then I can always add 1 which gives me the 2 outdoor zones controllable within Sonos as the added benefit.
I guess it will in part depend on how the pricing of the Connect:amp is affected in the lead up to the new Amp (I will prob need to at least hold off a bit before getting this done anyway). If i could get 2 connect amps for close to the same as 1 new amp plus the speaker switch then it'd have to be an option.
If I know that the power won't be enough and the new Amp alone ends up being around $200 less than 2 Connect then that'd be the way to go
I guess if the connect:amp has sufficient power then I am saving at this point at least $330 and likely more onnce the Amp actually comes out, then if it wasnt enough power and prices had dropped enough then I can always add 1 which gives me the 2 outdoor zones controllable within Sonos as the added benefit.
I guess it will in part depend on how the pricing of the Connect:amp is affected in the lead up to the new Amp (I will prob need to at least hold off a bit before getting this done anyway). If i could get 2 connect amps for close to the same as 1 new amp plus the speaker switch then it'd have to be an option.
If I know that the power won't be enough and the new Amp alone ends up being around $200 less than 2 Connect then that'd be the way to go
We crossed again so please check out my last post. Certainly worth seeing if others have different ideas too.
with the layout of our living room i think the sounder option still works best inside despite your alternative obviously being viable for sound quality
Some additional thoughts here:
Regarding using a speaker switch w/volume control for the outdoor speakers pair, you're most likely going to want set the volume of the two pairs relative to each other one time, and then use the Sonos app to adjust the volume from there on out. Given that, the speaker switch really shouldn't be an issue, and I would think you'd need a remote.
To give you a third option, beside the Connect:Amp or Sonos Amp, you can also go with a 3rd party amp + Connect. I recently went with the amp below + Connect for my backyard.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_021AD3002/AudioSource-AD3002.html?tp=180
I had a Connect:amp driving 4 speakers before and it was fine. The main reason I switched is I want to use the speakers with an outdoor TV. The amp allowed me to connect tv audio output directly to a the amp, bypassing the lag you'd get going through the Connect:amp or the Connect. The downside to this setup is I can't use the Sonos app for volume control when watching TV.
All this was before the Sonos Amp though, and I will most likely switch my setup out for the Sonos Amp when it's released. It's going to give me exactly what I want outside.
A 3rd point, because you're wanting to play tv audio outside along with the tv inside (perhaps with a playbar), I would further recommend the Sonos Amp. If you get an optical splitter, you can have optical out of your TV going to the splitter, with one cable going to a playbar (or other Sonos TV product) and another cable going to your amp for outdoor use. So when you want to play TV audio outside, instead of grouping it with the playbar, you just set the Sonos amp to play tv audio directly and there will be no lag. (Theortically, the same should work using HDMI-ARC for your connection instead of optical, but because ARC is a 2 way connection, I have my doubts on how successful it would be). If you ever decide to eventually put a TV outside, you already have the right equipment for the audio as well.
Regarding using a speaker switch w/volume control for the outdoor speakers pair, you're most likely going to want set the volume of the two pairs relative to each other one time, and then use the Sonos app to adjust the volume from there on out. Given that, the speaker switch really shouldn't be an issue, and I would think you'd need a remote.
To give you a third option, beside the Connect:Amp or Sonos Amp, you can also go with a 3rd party amp + Connect. I recently went with the amp below + Connect for my backyard.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_021AD3002/AudioSource-AD3002.html?tp=180
I had a Connect:amp driving 4 speakers before and it was fine. The main reason I switched is I want to use the speakers with an outdoor TV. The amp allowed me to connect tv audio output directly to a the amp, bypassing the lag you'd get going through the Connect:amp or the Connect. The downside to this setup is I can't use the Sonos app for volume control when watching TV.
All this was before the Sonos Amp though, and I will most likely switch my setup out for the Sonos Amp when it's released. It's going to give me exactly what I want outside.
A 3rd point, because you're wanting to play tv audio outside along with the tv inside (perhaps with a playbar), I would further recommend the Sonos Amp. If you get an optical splitter, you can have optical out of your TV going to the splitter, with one cable going to a playbar (or other Sonos TV product) and another cable going to your amp for outdoor use. So when you want to play TV audio outside, instead of grouping it with the playbar, you just set the Sonos amp to play tv audio directly and there will be no lag. (Theortically, the same should work using HDMI-ARC for your connection instead of optical, but because ARC is a 2 way connection, I have my doubts on how successful it would be). If you ever decide to eventually put a TV outside, you already have the right equipment for the audio as well.
A further thought on whether the Connect:amp is enough power. It is fine. I was never disappointed with 1 Connect:amp driving 2 pairs of speakers. However, there was noticable improvement when I switched out amps. The Sonos amp is the same wattage as the amp I currently use, so I expect no difference here.
If you went with 2 connect:amps, you 'll still have less overall wattage then a single Sonos amp. And you will not be able to permanently group the 2 amps together. Sonos remembers your previous grouping so you won't have to re-group the speakers every time, but if you group your 2 connect:amps with the playbar for tv audio, you'll group all 3 together. When you're done, you'd need to un-group the 3 zones, then group your 2 outdoor zones back together. It's a minor burden, but something worth mentioning i think.
Overall, I just think the features and flexibility of the Sonos Amp make it a better option in most situations.
If you went with 2 connect:amps, you 'll still have less overall wattage then a single Sonos amp. And you will not be able to permanently group the 2 amps together. Sonos remembers your previous grouping so you won't have to re-group the speakers every time, but if you group your 2 connect:amps with the playbar for tv audio, you'll group all 3 together. When you're done, you'd need to un-group the 3 zones, then group your 2 outdoor zones back together. It's a minor burden, but something worth mentioning i think.
Overall, I just think the features and flexibility of the Sonos Amp make it a better option in most situations.
A 3rd point, because you're wanting to play tv audio outside along with the tv inside (perhaps with a playbar), I would further recommend the Sonos Amp. If you get an optical splitter, you can have optical out of your TV going to the splitter, with one cable going to a playbar (or other Sonos TV product) and another cable going to your amp for outdoor use. So when you want to play TV audio outside, instead of grouping it with the playbar, you just set the Sonos amp to play tv audio directly and there will be no lag. (Theortically, the same should work using HDMI-ARC for your connection instead of optical, but because ARC is a 2 way connection, I have my doubts on how successful it would be). If you ever decide to eventually put a TV outside, you already have the right equipment for the audio as well.
so with that set up are you saying the outside and playbar would play together as if the tv was thinking they were 1 receiver, or playbar be disabled?
Regarding using a speaker switch w/volume control for the outdoor speakers pair, you're most likely going to want set the volume of the two pairs relative to each other one time, and then use the Sonos app to adjust the volume from there on out. Given that, the speaker switch really shouldn't be an issue, and I would think you'd need a remote.
i would have them set to equal as default but the option to vary (eg if only using under pergola and no-one on lawn area no need to spread the sound too far) or people chatting quietly under pergola and want more volume in the lawn.
if they had to be the same then so be it but its a nice benefit if available so the remote control for that would be handy at times
With respect to "lag", keep in mind that sound travels approximately one foot per second in air. Even with perfect time alignment, a distant speaker will seem delayed with respect to a nearby speaker. The latency for Line-In for all SONOS units is approximately 75ms. Latency for the optical or HDMI connections is approximately half of that. If one is attempting to align other zones with an optical or HDMI connection, one can fuss with the SONOS Lip Sync setting, however, this will obviously impact audio synchronization with the video.
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