I see there are 92 articles on Amazon Echo here in the SONOS community. Has anyone from SONOS responded? Does SONOS have any intent to support Amazon Echo integration?
I can't imagine anyone not wanting that. It feels like that is just how SONOS should work. We love our SONOS system but we keep finding ourselves using the lesser quality Echo just because it's easier. I wish I could use my SONOS system as my speaker and my ECHO as the controller (unless of course my SONOS could just do the same thing). I can't imagine how anyone will beat ECHO for speed and quality of response. Not even SIRI can compete with our Amazon Echo experience.
If I have to I will replace my SONOS system with a bunch of ECHO's but I would never want to do that. Not even because of the investment I have already made with SONOS. I would buy a whole new SONOS system if I could have the AMAZON ECHO controller.
Are there any representatives of the SONOS company in this community? Can I even wish for true Integration between the two companies?
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If anybody is interested in voice control outside the Echo, then have a look at this:
https://www.athom.com
At this stage I cannot confirm how good it is as it's only just about to land after its Kickstarter campaign. But it is more feature rich than the Echo, and an open platform, and is a possible alternative. Also see these two threads about Sonos and Echo in particular (Emile's the creator btw):
https://forum.athom.com/discussion/289/sonos-connect
https://forum.athom.com/discussion/91/amazon-echo
Homey is obviously intended for fuller home integration as well as the basic Echo commands, but is very new so who knows how it will fair. I will try to remember to come back in a few weeks (mine is due within a couple of weeks) to let you know how it works with Sonos, which I'm very keen to get working with voice control.
https://www.athom.com
At this stage I cannot confirm how good it is as it's only just about to land after its Kickstarter campaign. But it is more feature rich than the Echo, and an open platform, and is a possible alternative. Also see these two threads about Sonos and Echo in particular (Emile's the creator btw):
https://forum.athom.com/discussion/289/sonos-connect
https://forum.athom.com/discussion/91/amazon-echo
Homey is obviously intended for fuller home integration as well as the basic Echo commands, but is very new so who knows how it will fair. I will try to remember to come back in a few weeks (mine is due within a couple of weeks) to let you know how it works with Sonos, which I'm very keen to get working with voice control.
I haven't done it yet, but the Echo Dot that was just released has a 3.5mm audio out that can be used to connect to the audio input on a Sonos Connect or Amp, essentially using the Dot as the input device on the sonos system.
I have actually started replacing my Sonos with Alexa and Dot. Yea, the sound is a bit lacking, but the control and the added features is worth change. If Alexa and Dot start being able to be grouped I no longer see the benefit of Sonos for average person. I was a fan of Sonos too, having 5 Play:1, a Play:3, and Connect. The lack of integration has really disappointing.
I have an Amazon Echo and like it - and the Dot is an interesting addition that I plan on getting.
How would I use the Dot? One use case is to use it in my Bedroom - and in the ideal world connect it to a Play 1
Unfortunately - the Play 1 doesn't have an input connector - NOR - does it have Bluetooth capabilities - which pretty much kills the overall idea ..
Hopefully, Sonos is working with Amazon on some type of integration to make my use case possible ..
How would I use the Dot? One use case is to use it in my Bedroom - and in the ideal world connect it to a Play 1
Unfortunately - the Play 1 doesn't have an input connector - NOR - does it have Bluetooth capabilities - which pretty much kills the overall idea ..
Hopefully, Sonos is working with Amazon on some type of integration to make my use case possible ..
How would I use the Dot? One use case is to use it in my Bedroom - and in the ideal world connect it to a Play 1
Unfortunately - the Play 1 doesn't have an input connector - NOR - does it have Bluetooth capabilities - which pretty much kills the overall idea ..
Hopefully, Sonos is working with Amazon on some type of integration to make my use case possible ..
If you have a Play 1 why would you need/want an Amazon Dot? Isn't it just a speaker? As a speaker it will be nowhere near as good as the Play 1 either.
How would I use the Dot? One use case is to use it in my Bedroom - and in the ideal world connect it to a Play 1
Unfortunately - the Play 1 doesn't have an input connector - NOR - does it have Bluetooth capabilities - which pretty much kills the overall idea ..
Hopefully, Sonos is working with Amazon on some type of integration to make my use case possible ..
If you have a Play 1 why would you need/want an Amazon Dot? Isn't it just a speaker? As a speaker it will be nowhere near as good as the Play 1 either.
No - the Dot is the Voice Command piece only. It has a very small speaker (which I guess allows Alexa to answer) - but it is designed to connect to a real speaker
So the idea - you talk to the Dot - the response is sent out to the Sonos Speaker .
So does this open the door to Sonos working on an Echo skillset?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontilley/2016/03/10/as-amazon-echo-takes-off-sonos-announces-layoffs-and-preps-for-a-voice-controlled-future/#276269117bbd
http://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontilley/2016/03/10/as-amazon-echo-takes-off-sonos-announces-layoffs-and-preps-for-a-voice-controlled-future/#276269117bbd
No details on specifics, but here it is in the CEO's words:
http://blog.sonos.com/news/industry-in-transition-invest-in-future
http://blog.sonos.com/news/industry-in-transition-invest-in-future
Unfortunately, today's announcements are typical of a company caught napping. Seen this kind of PR many times before - lofty tone, few specifics, layoffs. They were the first, they did it best but now they have to compete face to face with Google, Amazon and others. Are they a closed wireless music ecosystem or are they an integrator of their core competency...which is?
Here is the problem I have with the blog entry. Streaming Music is a different beast than Voice - and this just isn't about "voice" - its about control in the household and the functionality of the voice system itself
It makes little/no sense for Sonos to compete against the likes of Echo, Cortana, etc - to many players with deep pockets.
So we get back to the initial question. Integrating Sonos with one of these Voice systems - lets say Echo - that isn't a "knee jerk" reaction by any extent of the imagination .. Echo has been out and growing for about a year - and new product here today ..
It makes little/no sense for Sonos to compete against the likes of Echo, Cortana, etc - to many players with deep pockets.
So we get back to the initial question. Integrating Sonos with one of these Voice systems - lets say Echo - that isn't a "knee jerk" reaction by any extent of the imagination .. Echo has been out and growing for about a year - and new product here today ..
Agreed, and that's the point. What is Sonos' core competency going forward? Are they a speaker manufacturer, are they a multi-room wireless service? What's the point of having the Sonos app integrate 10 different music services which are essentially the same? Are they going to develop their own voice system specific to just controlling music? Inevitably, Amazon will add multiroom wireless to the Echo's capabilities - they're almost there already with Spotify and Prime Music integration. Echo will go (and already does) far beyond music control in the home. Google's almost there with CCA, their own music service and Nest. They just need to add a few functionality tweaks. It's a tough road for Sonos.
If I had a dime for every time someone predicted Sonos' imminent demise due to "new technology XYZ" brought out by "Big Pockets company IJK", I could buy a new Play:5 and a year of Apple Music. I would suggest doing a search for the King of the Doom and Gloom Posters 'wappinghigh' if the search facility actually worked; but alas it doesn't. Suffice to say if his many predictions came true, Sonos would be owned by Apple, in court for DRM hacking, put out of business by Linksys, Logitech, Sony, Yamaha, Bluesound, Spotify Connect, (and a dozen other companies) or relegated to the scrapheap just because they didn't perfect a Sonos brand router, Sonos brand NAS, Sonos brand dedicated ripper, Sonos brand clock radio, Sonos brand TV display, support Hi-res audio, or hire him as a consultant. Strangely enough, he peppered his posts with phrases like "a company caught napping", "they used to be the best but now . . . ", etc.
So why don't we all sit back and let it all unfold, lest one suffers years of embarrassment like our old friend 'wappinghigh'.
So why don't we all sit back and let it all unfold, lest one suffers years of embarrassment like our old friend 'wappinghigh'.
I'm interested, what is Sonos' core competency going forward?
They make superb speakers with an excellent interface allowing it's millions of users to listen to all the music they could possibly want.
They are also pretty good at ignoring noise from negative posters or allowing themselves to be tempted by the "magic" ideas thrown their way at an alarming rate.
What makes you think that just because you buy their product you should be privileged to ask, never mind actually get an answer, for this decidedly internal and proprietary information?
I think the poster was asking you what YOU thought the answer was
To be honest - and I know a little about technology - I don't see the opportunity in voice for Sonos. Echo seems to be growing daily - and with the introduction of that $90 smaller unit - that doesn't seem to be a pricepoint Sonos has played in ..
And that is just the hardware. There is the cost of the entire ecosystem behind Voice - which again - Sonos doesn't have. They would have a lot to create - without a clear revenue stream in return
And they just laid people off ? That usually is NOT a good sign for a company that is growing - and investing
And to my knowledge, Sonos has no recurring revenue stream. Its not like there is a subscription fee you pay to Sonos after the initial purpose
So we are back to partnering. But after a year of letting the Echo establish a marketplace - and a 2nd round of product enhancements - delays in partnering are a little more than curious .
To be honest - and I know a little about technology - I don't see the opportunity in voice for Sonos. Echo seems to be growing daily - and with the introduction of that $90 smaller unit - that doesn't seem to be a pricepoint Sonos has played in ..
And that is just the hardware. There is the cost of the entire ecosystem behind Voice - which again - Sonos doesn't have. They would have a lot to create - without a clear revenue stream in return
And they just laid people off ? That usually is NOT a good sign for a company that is growing - and investing
And to my knowledge, Sonos has no recurring revenue stream. Its not like there is a subscription fee you pay to Sonos after the initial purpose
So we are back to partnering. But after a year of letting the Echo establish a marketplace - and a 2nd round of product enhancements - delays in partnering are a little more than curious .
I have no idea what their core competency is or should be. I'm neither a venture capital investor nor a long term business planner. I'm a software engineer and a customer. As a customer, I bought Sonos for what it is, and it is still what I bought it and then some. It they improve upon that with some whizbang thing like voice? Yay for me! If they partner up with someone like Amazon? Again, yay for me! If they don't and something comes along that better suits my (and the industry's) changing expectations? I'll ditch Sonos and buy the something else. Not as much "Yay for me!", but that is life, and I've got too much to do and not enough time to fret over something I bought over 8 years. Besides, new stuff is great!
Anyway, all three of those outcomes I find far better and more fulfilling than whinging on a company website about their core competency and how it affects my purchase, a purchase which is about .00005% of their income for a year, never mind the 8 years I've owned it. Maybe when I get up to .0001%, I'll start to think I'm owed their inside info. Then again, maybe not. :)
As always, YMMV.
Err, so what are you saying? There should only be one music service on Sonos? Which one? Amazon? Not available outside the US. Sonos don't integrate the music services, the services do that themselves, there's nothing stopping every music service in the world adding itself to Sonos. What's the point of NOT doing that? That's the CEO's point, "now that all the music in the world is available". It isn't if you take all but one music service away.
Sonos doesn't need to compete WITH Echo and similar services. They should be looking to integrate with as many of these services as possible. The direct integration with Google Play Music is/was a start, but feels stagnant now. Sonos (imho) should be focusing on being the leader in quality speaker and sound technology that just works. And by just works, that means integrating with the services that you use (even if there are 10 different ones that are prevalent) and the home automation and voice controllers that are becoming ubiquitous. It's no longer a leaderless, fragmented herd.
I won't get into having a $300 connect when Chromecasts are available for $35 (or less), but honestly the product direction at Sonos must go beyond making great speakers that just work together.
The market is catching up, and being the leader in integrations with services like Alexa, direct connections with streaming services, connecting with Nest, deeper integration with SmartThings, etc. are definitively critical to keep this company moving forward.
Focusing on streaming services is necessary, but not nearly enough as home automation and voice control are critical and there are clear movers in this space. Get on board while you can, Sonos.
I won't get into having a $300 connect when Chromecasts are available for $35 (or less), but honestly the product direction at Sonos must go beyond making great speakers that just work together.
The market is catching up, and being the leader in integrations with services like Alexa, direct connections with streaming services, connecting with Nest, deeper integration with SmartThings, etc. are definitively critical to keep this company moving forward.
Focusing on streaming services is necessary, but not nearly enough as home automation and voice control are critical and there are clear movers in this space. Get on board while you can, Sonos.
As Matthew said above, Sonos makes a few things:
-speakers
-Multiroom, wireless mesh to integrate them
-app that aggregates music from multiple sources to play on their speakers in their mesh
That's about it - not to minimize how well they do it.
They have been the only game in town and did it the best - created a market. The problem, as witnessed by their layoffs and vague press conference, is that some pretty big names have jumped in the game and are picking off pieces of their "system". That system is really their strength because there are competitive alternatives for each component in their system. Nobody yet has created something as good - in total. There speakers are very good, but c'mon man there are hundreds of great speaker manufacturers. They have the best mesh but Google is strengthing quickly and can leverage whatever speaker you feel is best, not just three or four models. Amazon has developed the uber-interface with Echo and can already play music from multiple sources by just telling it to do so - no phone, no app required. By the end of the year they'll have a SonosNet equivilant tying their echo speakers together with voice.
And it doesn't stop there, both google and amazon are looking far beyond music to whole house integration. Music will be just one piece of it. You can already see this with how Nest and Echo integrate with other devices in the home - thermostats, lights, garage door openers, security systems, cameras, etc. They both have their respective clouds to leverage too. I own a few thousand $$ of Sonos equipment but before I buy anymore I waiting to see something concrete on what their vision is.
-speakers
-Multiroom, wireless mesh to integrate them
-app that aggregates music from multiple sources to play on their speakers in their mesh
That's about it - not to minimize how well they do it.
They have been the only game in town and did it the best - created a market. The problem, as witnessed by their layoffs and vague press conference, is that some pretty big names have jumped in the game and are picking off pieces of their "system". That system is really their strength because there are competitive alternatives for each component in their system. Nobody yet has created something as good - in total. There speakers are very good, but c'mon man there are hundreds of great speaker manufacturers. They have the best mesh but Google is strengthing quickly and can leverage whatever speaker you feel is best, not just three or four models. Amazon has developed the uber-interface with Echo and can already play music from multiple sources by just telling it to do so - no phone, no app required. By the end of the year they'll have a SonosNet equivilant tying their echo speakers together with voice.
And it doesn't stop there, both google and amazon are looking far beyond music to whole house integration. Music will be just one piece of it. You can already see this with how Nest and Echo integrate with other devices in the home - thermostats, lights, garage door openers, security systems, cameras, etc. They both have their respective clouds to leverage too. I own a few thousand $$ of Sonos equipment but before I buy anymore I waiting to see something concrete on what their vision is.
Sonos hasn't "focused on music services" in a long while, at least engineering-wise. In 2011 they announced Sonos Labs and the Music Partners program which allowed most of the development of music services to be done by the services themselves through the Music Partners API. Not coincidently, the number of services available exploded after the program came on line.
New York Times article today underscores how Sonos is not keeping up with the times. Laying off staff. Not a good sign. Smart people. Hopefully, they're working on voice activation and will roll it out soon.
This really reminds me of Blackberry a few years back. All the blah blah about how secure they were, no one was going to touch them - and I personally believe Blackberry drank that koolaid way to much ..
iPhone comes on the scene - and Blackberry's days were numbered
I think we have seen this movie ends ..
iPhone comes on the scene - and Blackberry's days were numbered
I think we have seen this movie ends ..
The home automation systems and voice control is a fragmented and leaderless herd with no common standards nor integration to a central "processor" - the automation version of your router.
There are at the very least a dozen different ways to do anything. Which is the right one. Which one will work in five years time? What standards have been agreed. Have any standards been agreed.
Alexa does very simple things (especially once you throw away the ooh that's neat or that you will use once or realise that is more trouble than it is worth.
Is controlling Sonos just as simple?
Alarms.
Groups
Get music from what source.
Overall group volume
Each group volume
Play different music in each group
I have no idea what the answer to that is.
I do think that the future for voice must lay in a central hub that devices communicate through, a homenet. I talk to my phone, my tablet, my TV, my media streamer, my other media streamer and... It gets tiresome trying to work out what to talk to and say what.
There are at the very least a dozen different ways to do anything. Which is the right one. Which one will work in five years time? What standards have been agreed. Have any standards been agreed.
Alexa does very simple things (especially once you throw away the ooh that's neat or that you will use once or realise that is more trouble than it is worth.
Is controlling Sonos just as simple?
Alarms.
Groups
Get music from what source.
Overall group volume
Each group volume
Play different music in each group
I have no idea what the answer to that is.
I do think that the future for voice must lay in a central hub that devices communicate through, a homenet. I talk to my phone, my tablet, my TV, my media streamer, my other media streamer and... It gets tiresome trying to work out what to talk to and say what.
right now that central hub for me is Smartthings. Even my echo if I say "Alexa turn on Sonos" it routes through my Smartthings hub.
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