I see there are 92 articles on Amazon Echo here in the SONOS community. Has anyone from SONOS responded? Does SONOS have any intent to support Amazon Echo integration?
I can't imagine anyone not wanting that. It feels like that is just how SONOS should work. We love our SONOS system but we keep finding ourselves using the lesser quality Echo just because it's easier. I wish I could use my SONOS system as my speaker and my ECHO as the controller (unless of course my SONOS could just do the same thing). I can't imagine how anyone will beat ECHO for speed and quality of response. Not even SIRI can compete with our Amazon Echo experience.
If I have to I will replace my SONOS system with a bunch of ECHO's but I would never want to do that. Not even because of the investment I have already made with SONOS. I would buy a whole new SONOS system if I could have the AMAZON ECHO controller.
Are there any representatives of the SONOS company in this community? Can I even wish for true Integration between the two companies?
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The Echo is only available in the US. It will no doubt be rolled out globally. It is physical goods and not services.
Indeed the US market is big enough, about the same as Europe which doesn't have the device, to provide US only services but any service is going to be a very heavy weight if those services can't be ported globally and to automation systems developed elsewhere. Amazon is a global company that wants to sell you media and will integrate the Echo primarily into its services with assorted carrots attached to lure purchasers.
Automation takes many forms, voice control is no good outside of the home whilst app/programme based is good everywhere.
It is not the fact that Echo is voice controlled (voice control...that sounds familiar) but that there a number of automation alternatives. Which is the best? Who knows. Is there any standard? What stability is there when someone changes their firmware and things stop working.
Automation is still a very small, but significant, growing market with some very big players not yet in the market. Amazon want to sell you media. Apple want to sell you "premium" devices and media, Samsung/LG want to sell you devices.
Solutions and corporate focus for that three are/will be very different.
Indeed the US market is big enough, about the same as Europe which doesn't have the device, to provide US only services but any service is going to be a very heavy weight if those services can't be ported globally and to automation systems developed elsewhere. Amazon is a global company that wants to sell you media and will integrate the Echo primarily into its services with assorted carrots attached to lure purchasers.
Automation takes many forms, voice control is no good outside of the home whilst app/programme based is good everywhere.
It is not the fact that Echo is voice controlled (voice control...that sounds familiar) but that there a number of automation alternatives. Which is the best? Who knows. Is there any standard? What stability is there when someone changes their firmware and things stop working.
Automation is still a very small, but significant, growing market with some very big players not yet in the market. Amazon want to sell you media. Apple want to sell you "premium" devices and media, Samsung/LG want to sell you devices.
Solutions and corporate focus for that three are/will be very different.
I for one am Canadian and have 17 sonos-I would LOVE echo integration but I guess I'm SOL since I'm not in the US...
It's not and the US market is large enough that it makes sense to have US-only services.
There are only three companies that really have the processing power to make voice controlled SONOS work. Apple, Google and Amazon. Apple and Google will still require a smart phone and so don't gain a lot over the SONOS controller already on those platforms. The Amazon Echo, on the other hand, does not need to be in hand to work. And, this audio from SONOS is so much better than the audio from Echo. So, SONOS should work with Echo.
Whilst the Echo remains a regional product , as the mantra goes, other automation new kids come along. That the Echo integrates with other products is one way. What about opposite spin. What products arrive with Echo integration? Given the choice already of different systems, why pick Echo?
Not sure I get your point about US only... Sonos already supports services that are restricted by region so how is this any different?
Also not sure what choice of different systems you are referring to that compete with Echo. If you are looking for a voice operated digital assistant and control interface for your home (as opposed to one operating on a smartphone or tablet) what other options are out there right now?
What android app? Trueplay? That has been explained ad nauseum and only a few posts above.
I suspect that there are a lot of Sonos customers in America who would like Echo integration. I also suspect there are more Sonos owners who use Android instead of iPhone and Sonos has made TruePlay to only work with iPhone...
Nothing pisses me off more than companies that only put out one app in one ecosystem, usually Apple, and take forever or never put out an Android app.
But what about the Echo ONLY being available in the US at present? How and why would a global "premium" product company commit to a regional product?
Whilst the Echo remains a regional product , as the mantra goes, other automation new kids come along. That the Echo integrates with other products is one way. What about opposite spin. What products arrive with Echo integration? Given the choice already of different systems, why pick Echo?
Whilst the Echo remains a regional product , as the mantra goes, other automation new kids come along. That the Echo integrates with other products is one way. What about opposite spin. What products arrive with Echo integration? Given the choice already of different systems, why pick Echo?
Just my two cents from an infrequent forum user with a house full of Sonos players and now, four Echo devices. I've had an automated home for over a decade, with voice control for much of that system. The Echo is one of the most useful devices I've ever owned, replacing our previous method of interacting with the home via voice and, to a large degree, other devices. We now find ourselves using the Echo to stream music INSTEAD OF our Sonos players, which often sit inches away from the Echo. Why? Because it's 10x more convenient than picking up a phone or tablet or computer! Now, that said, the Sonos players sound dramatically better than anything except perhaps the entry level Sonos player, which I don't own. So for those who think the two systems compete, I disagree. Sonos makes a player / speaker that will satisfy all but the most hardcore audiophile, while Amazon is offering a device that sounds similar to, as someone noted earlier in this thread, a "boombox". It's not terrible, but it's hardly a Sonos and most Sonos users would not view the two as interchangeable IF - and this is the key - they could control the Sonos with their Echo. But as noted, for just background music, news or a podcast the Echo works very well. In that scenario, the system getting less use (Sonos) would be well served by getting their users to control their better sounding speaker with the more convenient but inferior sounding control device. Don't let us get too accustomed to the sound of that convenient little cylinder, Sonos, or you will find yourself selling far fewer of your better sounding units. Or, sure, just do what you're doing now - ignore us, and watch the dust collect on your equipment. Let's see if that convinces me to buy more...
I will download and play with the code from github (thank you, Ryan), but I'm hardly a programmer, so like others I will likely struggle. Some hobbyist users of our home automation platform have also released some code that attempts to integrate Echo and Sonos, so I'll likely mess with that, as well, after attempting my own clunky method of cobbling together the Echo with Sonos during some precious little free time earlier this week (I really do resent that, Sonos, as you're forcing me to do what I view as YOUR job). The bottom line is that this lack of even a glimmer of interest by Sonos reflects what I view as the ongoing lack of care Sonos has for its users. The company seems to think it's the hottest thing on the market. Well, it's a very good wireless speaker / player but its not the be all / end all of my world, or that of many others. So when we have guests over and they ask us whether we like our Sonos system (in multiple rooms) we say, "It's a great wireless system, but it would be much better if they played nice with others". I then tell them about the problems we've had with simple things like getting the IR repeater to work when the Playbar is hung on a wall (another "feature" from the Sonos engineers that makes no sense, and could be easily controlled with a user-selectable setting IF that team cared more about its ends users). I like the sound of Sonos, but I just find their development teams live in their own, little bubble. Frustrating.
Many other suppliers have already integrated with Echo, including Nest and Ecobee as thermostats, many home automation platforms, and a wide variety of services. Sonos, true to form, continues to lag. The result is an otherwise great product that continues to become increasingly less useful to users who have purchased it in the past, but are not convinced they will continue to do so, largely because of the Sonos "attitude" toward anything except adding yet another streaming service with a limited user base. These two products simply don't compete, and the lack of integration makes one much less useful. If there is a "battle" here, Sonos is creating it. And losing.
I will download and play with the code from github (thank you, Ryan), but I'm hardly a programmer, so like others I will likely struggle. Some hobbyist users of our home automation platform have also released some code that attempts to integrate Echo and Sonos, so I'll likely mess with that, as well, after attempting my own clunky method of cobbling together the Echo with Sonos during some precious little free time earlier this week (I really do resent that, Sonos, as you're forcing me to do what I view as YOUR job). The bottom line is that this lack of even a glimmer of interest by Sonos reflects what I view as the ongoing lack of care Sonos has for its users. The company seems to think it's the hottest thing on the market. Well, it's a very good wireless speaker / player but its not the be all / end all of my world, or that of many others. So when we have guests over and they ask us whether we like our Sonos system (in multiple rooms) we say, "It's a great wireless system, but it would be much better if they played nice with others". I then tell them about the problems we've had with simple things like getting the IR repeater to work when the Playbar is hung on a wall (another "feature" from the Sonos engineers that makes no sense, and could be easily controlled with a user-selectable setting IF that team cared more about its ends users). I like the sound of Sonos, but I just find their development teams live in their own, little bubble. Frustrating.
Many other suppliers have already integrated with Echo, including Nest and Ecobee as thermostats, many home automation platforms, and a wide variety of services. Sonos, true to form, continues to lag. The result is an otherwise great product that continues to become increasingly less useful to users who have purchased it in the past, but are not convinced they will continue to do so, largely because of the Sonos "attitude" toward anything except adding yet another streaming service with a limited user base. These two products simply don't compete, and the lack of integration makes one much less useful. If there is a "battle" here, Sonos is creating it. And losing.
Great hack! But what about the 99% of people who can't or don't want to do this? I understand that Sonos and Echo MIGHT be considered competitive products but I agree with UP2MTNS and others on that subject. How/why would Sonos providing an IFTTT channel make people buy an Echo instead of Sonos? Doesn't make sense. In fact the reverse is true. The fact that Sonos does not have an IFTTT channel is inexcusable and is hurting their reputation. I was impressed with Sonos until this. Now I will switch from recommending them to warning against them. Come on Sonos, you should have provided an IFTTT channel long ago. Shame on you!
They may want it, but it makes zero commercial sense for a now global company. How long will Echo be around. Still here and still fully supported in 5 years - nothing Amazon have yet produced is.
Trueplay has been explained ad nauseum - Apple microphones are consistent across the range of devices. Android microphones are not.
Which automation system(s) will come out on top? What should you throw lots of money at?
I'm not against progress but the completely unrealistic expectations of a noisy few who are in thrall of the new "look at this gizmo" does not make a company that people will support. I spent lots on Sonos gear simply because they have been around a long time and continue to support and develop their product - it has its compromises, but so does everything.
If people want to get stroppy and abandon a product that fulfills what it says it does and is fully fit for purpose then so be it. In five years time I bet they won't be so chirpy about their stupid decision when it breaks, is no longer supported, no longer produced. Amazon is a global company and can't afford to produce a product soley for the US market - they are in the business of selling you media and not hardware (witness their stand down in the tablet market to media consumption devices) Sonos sell hardware and their hardware must be good and fully supported to sell. A very, very different market.
So far, nothing comes close to what Sonos does in terms of quality product, functionality, support. Sonos's big hurdle is the playbar and optical input and no DTS.
Trueplay has been explained ad nauseum - Apple microphones are consistent across the range of devices. Android microphones are not.
Which automation system(s) will come out on top? What should you throw lots of money at?
I'm not against progress but the completely unrealistic expectations of a noisy few who are in thrall of the new "look at this gizmo" does not make a company that people will support. I spent lots on Sonos gear simply because they have been around a long time and continue to support and develop their product - it has its compromises, but so does everything.
If people want to get stroppy and abandon a product that fulfills what it says it does and is fully fit for purpose then so be it. In five years time I bet they won't be so chirpy about their stupid decision when it breaks, is no longer supported, no longer produced. Amazon is a global company and can't afford to produce a product soley for the US market - they are in the business of selling you media and not hardware (witness their stand down in the tablet market to media consumption devices) Sonos sell hardware and their hardware must be good and fully supported to sell. A very, very different market.
So far, nothing comes close to what Sonos does in terms of quality product, functionality, support. Sonos's big hurdle is the playbar and optical input and no DTS.
I suspect that there are a lot of Sonos customers in America who would like Echo integration. I also suspect there are more Sonos owners who use Android instead of iPhone and Sonos has made TruePlay to only work with iPhone...
Echo integration is...
As Echo not available outside of the US why would any company waste a large sum of money trying to integrate with anything that is not a global seller?
Until Echo becomes a global success, unlike a certain phone, there is no need to do anything.
The market is subject to a number of competing "standards" for automation. Which one will win?
Sorting out that Sonos refer to home cinema which is full of holes as to accepted data streams would seem to be of a greater priority in the shorter term. But then...more and more TVs output DD5.1...so what is the correct course.
As Echo not available outside of the US why would any company waste a large sum of money trying to integrate with anything that is not a global seller?
Until Echo becomes a global success, unlike a certain phone, there is no need to do anything.
The market is subject to a number of competing "standards" for automation. Which one will win?
Sorting out that Sonos refer to home cinema which is full of holes as to accepted data streams would seem to be of a greater priority in the shorter term. But then...more and more TVs output DD5.1...so what is the correct course.
There are similar dramas running with APPLE, GOOGLE, SPOTIFY, etc. Each of these major platforms has a following that demands an instant response to any developments by the major. The smaller companies must be careful not to attach their wagons too tightly to a major, else the minor will spend all of its development effort responding to a major, not innovating their own product. This is a method used by the majors to control minor competition, but it also minimizes the major's development costs. (otherwise the major would need to respond to all of the minors' developments)
SONOS publishes an API that any music service is free to support. While this API does not support every little exclusive feature (an obvious "must have" for some users) for every service, it gives SONOS users easy and consistent access to dozens of services. In my opinion this is a win for everyone.
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Overall, there are there are too many 'silos' vying to become the data format, the database protocol, the communication protocol, and the user interface standard in the consumer electronics/automation arena. Some are newer and more capable than others, some are attempting to be "lightweight" (cheaper to implement), while most are trying to become the intellectual property standard so that its owner can charge everyone else royalties. Unfortunately, I think that the consumer is too low on the priority list.
SONOS publishes an API that any music service is free to support. While this API does not support every little exclusive feature (an obvious "must have" for some users) for every service, it gives SONOS users easy and consistent access to dozens of services. In my opinion this is a win for everyone.
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Overall, there are there are too many 'silos' vying to become the data format, the database protocol, the communication protocol, and the user interface standard in the consumer electronics/automation arena. Some are newer and more capable than others, some are attempting to be "lightweight" (cheaper to implement), while most are trying to become the intellectual property standard so that its owner can charge everyone else royalties. Unfortunately, I think that the consumer is too low on the priority list.
Cross-posting from another thread as I see this one has Sonos staff listening:
I created an account simply to upvote and comment here: this is a huge miss on Sonos' part that a full year after Echo is GA and has dozens of other partnerships that Sonos remains out of the ecosystem. It's great someone has done some creative hackery on github to link the two, but this needs to be officially supported by Sonos.
I own an Echo. I don't own Sonos today, but I'd very much like to own Sonos. It looks like a great system and leaps and bounds ahead of your competition in this space (for now). However, a Sonos that doesn't communicate with my Echo is useless to me. Smartphone apps are nice and all - but I just TALK to my Echo and it plays music I like. Investing in a pricey Sonos system that can't tie into this feature is a step backwards.
Short story: Integrate with Echo, earn an eager customer. Don't integrate with Echo, or come out instead with some standalone lock-in Sonos-only Echo competitor, and my money will go to your first competitor that offers Echo integration.
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and ps. to rmgraci: nice work! Tempted to buy a Sonos based on your awesome work, but they really need to integrate this into the core product. I'd be fine if they paid you some money and officially supported your work, but I won't invest an an expensive Sonos system where they might make a change that breaks your "user-supported customization" and breaks Echo support. Been burned by that too many times by other companies.
Sonos, here's your chance to partner with Amazon and add the ever-growing Echo customer base as your loyal customers too. If you don't do it, someone else will. Let's see what you can do!
I created an account simply to upvote and comment here: this is a huge miss on Sonos' part that a full year after Echo is GA and has dozens of other partnerships that Sonos remains out of the ecosystem. It's great someone has done some creative hackery on github to link the two, but this needs to be officially supported by Sonos.
I own an Echo. I don't own Sonos today, but I'd very much like to own Sonos. It looks like a great system and leaps and bounds ahead of your competition in this space (for now). However, a Sonos that doesn't communicate with my Echo is useless to me. Smartphone apps are nice and all - but I just TALK to my Echo and it plays music I like. Investing in a pricey Sonos system that can't tie into this feature is a step backwards.
Short story: Integrate with Echo, earn an eager customer. Don't integrate with Echo, or come out instead with some standalone lock-in Sonos-only Echo competitor, and my money will go to your first competitor that offers Echo integration.
--
and ps. to rmgraci: nice work! Tempted to buy a Sonos based on your awesome work, but they really need to integrate this into the core product. I'd be fine if they paid you some money and officially supported your work, but I won't invest an an expensive Sonos system where they might make a change that breaks your "user-supported customization" and breaks Echo support. Been burned by that too many times by other companies.
Sonos, here's your chance to partner with Amazon and add the ever-growing Echo customer base as your loyal customers too. If you don't do it, someone else will. Let's see what you can do!
I personally don't think there is that much of a difference between the two and too much overlap in functionality; both are internet streamers, both sell self-contained speakers, both do alarms, radio, etc., for there to be this type of partnership. But I could be wrong.
Oh, that's easy...because Echo doesn't compete with Sonos...Sure, they're both 'speaker systems', but they compliment each others' strengths and weaknesses.
1) already have Sonos? Great...buy Echo and add voice commands to your Sonos, also, link your Amazon Prime music account to your Sonos.
2) Already have Echo? Great....make it sound even better by adding higher quality Sonos speakers. Link rooms together, which Echo can't do. (this is also an incentive to buy more echo's for other rooms)
Now, maybe Amazon has plans to expand their Echo product to include better speakers, but I don't think Amazon wants to be in the wireless speaker business. They want to be in the 'do all your shopping on Amazon' business, and Echo is the trojan horse to do that. (I haven't set it up yet, but will eventually getting around to buying basic stuff through Echo...mission accomplished, Amazon)
My personal example...I thought Echo was cool, but didn't have Prime and already had Sonos so it didn't appeal that much too me. BUT, I DO have INSTEON home automation. When INSTEON announced integration with ECHO, I bought one that day. Control all the lights in my house with my voice? Hell yes.
And it suddenly made sense for me to get an Amazon Prime account. Worked so well I bought the 2nd one a month later. I wouldn't have bought any of it w/o the INSTEON integration.
But that's just me.
You've answered why you would like it, but that wasn't the question. Amazon wants to sell Echoes. Why would it waste all the intellectual property it has invested in Echo by allowing it to be used to sell Sonos speakers instead of Echoes?
this is why:
I have a Sonos Play3 in my kitchen and the Sonos Connect in my living room hooked up to my main stereo/speaker system. I also have an Echo in each room. The two Echos are linked to my one Amazon Prime account, but I can't control the two to play music together like you can with Sonos. Of if you're streaming Amazon music from one, you can't stream from both at the same time.
If Echo could output to Sonos, I could then have better sound for Echo but then ALSO have my Amazon Prime music pumped through my home stereo and no just through the smaller Echo speakers.
Evenf Echo simply had an output jack, I could plug that into the Connect's 'audio input' and that would get me halfway there (I could only control it from the living room Echo, not the kitchen Echo). But ideally, Sonos and Echo should connect via wifi and talk to each other, that would be awesome.
I'm the guy who wrote the echo-sonos code at https://github.com/rgraciano/echo-sonos
This past weekend, I fixed some bugs and made it smarter - features like next, previously, & what's playing now all work reliably. I also added a bunch of features like playlists and favorites, and many new phrasings to make voice control feel more natural.
Hope it helps!
Ryan
I found your GitHub before I found this post and want to say thank you. I haven't embarked on the journey yet but I read through the github and I don't think I'll have any issues. Currently have a multi room sonos setup and hadn't ordered an echo yet but now that you have made the two possible I'm going to move forward with the echo purchase. Thanks for you and everyone else's hard work.
I'm the guy who wrote the echo-sonos code at https://github.com/rgraciano/echo-sonos
This past weekend, I fixed some bugs and made it smarter - features like next, previously, & what's playing now all work reliably. I also added a bunch of features like playlists and favorites, and many new phrasings to make voice control feel more natural.
Hope it helps!
Ryan
Ok, so this looks complicated and will take a while for me to understand some of this, but given the money spent on sonos, echo and home automation, integrating sonos to echo is a must if i want to keep playing (and spending money) on gadgets with the girlfriends approval.
So a couple questions:
When you say the files need to be installed on a server, will this work on a NAS (have a drobo FS).
Is a Echo developer account still needed to get this operational? Was that difficult to get?
SONOS, there is enough technology savvy customers that support the word of mouth about your product that influences others to buy Sonos as a great product. But, I have to say, this holiday brought Echo and PS4 into my home (connected to a projector). Lack of integration is suddenly, in a weekend, rendering my Sonos system obsolete. Yeah, get your CEO to care and it will happen. Your churn, retention, repeat buyer and roadmap products are under pressure now from a customer perception standpoint. My Sonos buying decisions - which had Playbar, Play 1 and others suddenly. Why am I even on this thread? I have never been here as long as I can remember. It breaks my heart to learn in the last 48 hours that I should sell my Sonos. Suffer lower quality sound for convenience. My kid just walked in the house during this sentence and changed the Pandora station to Taio Cruz through Echo. Or just add your own voice control (don't make me by a new sonos speaker though.) Or let Amazon roll out an echo that replace your hub (too hard?). Suggest your CEO talk about voice interaction coming at CES.
Well you could release desktop app and one for the mobile.
@boykster - great! Feel free to submit a PR or send me a patch.
@andrew77uk - something has to sit behind your firewall & communicate with your Sonos system. I could publish my code as an app, but I'd still need you to install software on a server behind your firewall to talk to your Sonos, and I doubt Amazon would publish Skills that require that level of DIY effort. So, practically speaking, only Sonos (& Amazon themselves) have the capability to publish an end-to-end Sonos app, as they're both guaranteed to have a device sitting in the right place already.
@andrew77uk - something has to sit behind your firewall & communicate with your Sonos system. I could publish my code as an app, but I'd still need you to install software on a server behind your firewall to talk to your Sonos, and I doubt Amazon would publish Skills that require that level of DIY effort. So, practically speaking, only Sonos (& Amazon themselves) have the capability to publish an end-to-end Sonos app, as they're both guaranteed to have a device sitting in the right place already.
Would this eventually be released as an app?
Very cool - I have added a listFavorites function and added error checking to the playFavorite function to ensure that the fave is valid. I'm happy to share my code
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