End of Software Support - Clarifications

I understand the anger at the original announcement (and I have a Bridge and a Connect that are affected by it), but I have to confess that I don’t understand the continuing anger now. Sonos have said that legacy products will continue to be supported for as long as possible, but that they won’t get new features due to the limitations of the hardware. This seems like a pretty reasonable stance to me.

They deserve criticism for misreading the lay of the land, but equally they deserve some credit for responding quickly with a reasonable compromise.

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension if you think there's been any sort of "compromise". My apologies, but all of the responses I've seen here, and received via multiple emails, have said the exact same thing. Sonos clearly does not value those of us who have been here since the beginning. They seem to be standing their ground on this betrayal of trust, as such, I will stand by my promise to never buy their products again and will go above and beyond to help my friends and family avoid making the same mistake I did. It was fun while it lasted, but I prefer to support companies with at least a little bit of integrity.

Well, I would have to agree that there has not been a compromise. It isn’t yet clear what a ‘split system’ will involve, but it may not be regarded as adequate by the posters angry at the whole thing.

I respect the right of others to feel as they do, but I happen to believe that ‘betrayel of trust’ and suggestions of a lack of integrity are completely unjustified. Let’s agree to differ on that.

I understand the anger at the original announcement (and I have a Bridge and a Connect that are affected by it), but I have to confess that I don’t understand the continuing anger now. Sonos have said that legacy products will continue to be supported for as long as possible, but that they won’t get new features due to the limitations of the hardware. This seems like a pretty reasonable stance to me.

They deserve criticism for misreading the lay of the land, but equally they deserve some credit for responding quickly with a reasonable compromise.

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension if you think there's been any sort of "compromise". My apologies, but all of the responses I've seen here, and received via multiple emails, have said the exact same thing. Sonos clearly does not value those of us who have been here since the beginning. They seem to be standing their ground on this betrayal of trust, as such, I will stand by my promise to never buy their products again and will go above and beyond to help my friends and family avoid making the same mistake I did. It was fun while it lasted, but I prefer to support companies with at least a little bit of integrity.

I’ll brush up on my reading comprehension if you brush up on your manners.

I’ve not been with Sonos since “the beginning”, but I’ve been using their products for 9 years and I don't feel undervalued or betrayed. I have products that are affected by the recent announcements. The letter from the CEO very specifically says that they’re working on a way to allow the older products to co-exist with the newer ones; I consider this to be a compromise. What would your preferred solution to the situation be?

I don’t understand the continuing anger now. Sonos have said that legacy products will continue to be supported for as long as possible, but that they won’t get new features due to the limitations of the hardware. This seems like a pretty reasonable stance to me.

The problem that still remains is that if one wants one’s modern products that will keep getting updates to remain part of a whole house music system that contains legacy products, that’s not going to happen. This is a problem because Sonos has differentiated itself as not just a speaker seller but one that sells a multi room home audio solution.

How much this justifies the continuing anger, is hard to say.

Let’s try to keep the language clean everyone. I removed a couple posts above that had an inappropriate word in an image.

Good morning Ryan, I for one am encouraged by your message yesterday despite some frustrated days and reading and considering alternatives.

However (and not to add to any already repeated anger) I would repeat my several times posted request (and I think I speak for many folks) that we need a ROADMAP by the end of this week to reassure previously loyal high paying customers.

We had the original email that lit the fire

We saw your best intentions to inform - they were appreciated

We saw your top man’s email to reassure

…..All Good BUT….

Now we need a solid WHAT IS IT and WHAT IT WILL NOT BE message by the end of this week.

That’s a good 7 day period since your CEO’s reassurance message and will put 90% of the fire out.

And I don’t mean a ‘WHAT IT IS CHRISTMAS LIST’ but a reassurance or STATEMENT OF INTENTION as to what precisely Sonos aims to do and by when.

For those of us not intent on burying Sonos and who want to carry on buying and enjoying, this will likely be enough to keep us listening and rational. In love with Sonos? That’s going to take a lot more wine, chocolates and roses … but you get the point.

Please drop this on your management teams desk this morning and defy them to say it’s not a reasonable way forward.

Not to bump my own words but ….. 24 HOURS TO GO TO EXPECT A CLEAR STATEMENT

Please escalate it Ryan, it’s the reasonable way forward for us. Been 6 days since the holding statement.

It’s interesting to discuss technical options (and it really is) but I don’t claim to have any of that ‘stuff’. That’s why I come to Sonos.

But I do know that a clear STATEMENT OF INTENTION will absolutely build on previous messages successfully. Good or bad as that may be.

Please raise it Ryan. I cannot believe for a second that your top brass is not asking for a summary each day. THIS IS WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT.

It is also true that many angry posts are not angry about the issue that remains, but some other imagined problem. Unfortunately, the very poor way in which Sonos has handled this entire imbroglio has lit a fire and as in forest fires, there is no knowing how that will spread, and is the spread justified.

Just had this email from support -

Hello Michael,

I know the older products can't support audio sampled at 96 KHz with a 24 bit depth. That would be one thing that newer products with more processing power and a larger buffer could handle that the older products can't. I don't know if there are plans for newer products to support high res audio, but that is one example of something the older products can't do that the newer ones could.

I do know that there are new products that will support things the older products just can't. I really can't talk about what.

——————-

I find this all so frustrating.

I don’t know what 24-bit depth is, I didn’t ask for it, I wasn’t asked if I wanted it. don’t know if my ears could hear it, and it’s only an example of what newer kit ‘could’ do.

Once again Sonos, missing the point as far as I’m concerned

This is just a support guy. Don't treat it as if he were a spokesman. HiRes is a terrible example for this particular individual to have chosen.

I know Ryan is doing his best, but he is a spokesman for sonos, all employees will be spoksmen.

Just had this email from support -

Hello Michael,

I know the older products can't support audio sampled at 96 KHz with a 24 bit depth. That would be one thing that newer products with more processing power and a larger buffer could handle that the older products can't. I don't know if there are plans for newer products to support high res audio, but that is one example of something the older products can't do that the newer ones could.

I do know that there are new products that will support things the older products just can't. I really can't talk about what.

——————-

I find this all so frustrating.

I don’t know what 24-bit depth is, I didn’t ask for it, I wasn’t asked if I wanted it. don’t know if my ears could hear it, and it’s only an example of what newer kit ‘could’ do.

Once again Sonos, missing the point as far as I’m concerned

I find this to be a very interesting and even revealing quote. Why I think so is on:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index14.html#post16401355

I just watched the sonos video on there site, unbelievable that all the things that might happen with our systems is totally opposite to this video. This is false advertising.

It would be interesting to see how many people have traded up compared to how many who cannot and are in this nightmare situation. My Sonos like many is my music system and the background to my world….4 legacy products that I cannot afford to update. #soundofsilence

This has been posted before, but I’m repoasting as it gives the best view yet. Watch for does the ikea speaker come flatpacked

It would be interesting to see how many people have traded up compared to how many who cannot and are in this nightmare situation. My Sonos like many is my music system and the background to my world….4 legacy products that I cannot afford to update. #soundofsilence

I suggest you carry on using your system as currently beyond May. That should fix the silence.

Obviously I will be doing that…..just waiting for the radio to stop, then the streaming music services…..so it will only be my own record collection which as most I have not bought new records for a long time

Dear Sonos,

You can count me as another of your totally disappointed customers. At one point you were the only choice for wireless multi-room music. But now you’re not! I have invested thousands of dollar and pounds in installing sonos equipment in 3 homes - 2 in the USA and 1 in England. Never before have I had a vendor approach its customer service in quite this way. Unless the approach is totally rethought I will NEVER buy another Sonos product and never ever recommend Sonos to anyone. You have made a serious error of business judgement and lost me and others to the future. Really? Hold me to ransom to upgrade at only a 30% discount? Never!

Well it’s been over a week now, so I am now resigned to the fact the sonos will not change its decision. What this holds for the future who knows but one fact is certain. Never will I buy another sonos product or any other product with the same concept, users are just at the mercy of the manufacturers. I’m not rushing out to go with Yamaha or Bluesound but will keep using sonos as long as I can, once I lose the ability to stream my music one of two things will happen I stop my streaming subscription or I get a 3 rd party device to stream and distribute to sonos. Roon looks promising but not sure if it supports Napster ?.

Sonos maybe trying to ride the storm but how many are peed off that don’t post here or those who can’t be bothered to post. So this thread is slowing now but sonos will probably think we are all getting used to this now. The only thing I’m getting used to is the possibility of losing my streaming I’m just as peed now as when this started.

Another more philosophical thought came to mind last night now that my initial anger has turned more to apathy.

Many, if not most of your customers probably bought into the Sonos ecosystem because of our disdain for "planned obsolescence". Sonos appeared to be one of the few technology companies that didn't buy into this philosophy.

Even more disturbing than the fact that specific products have become obsolete was the statement that we will guarantee products for five years after last production. That is the very definition of planned obsolescence. It puts any future purchase on a countdown to obsolescence and I suspect that in itself will turn many off of future purchases.

I understand some would like to see a guaranteed time period but I personally would feel better with once again having faith that planned obsolescence was not at all part of the corporate culture again.

Another more philosophical thought came to mind last night now that my initial anger has turned more to apathy.

Many, if not most of your customers probably bought into the Sonos ecosystem because of our disdain for "planned obsolescence". Sonos appeared to be one of the few technology companies that didn't buy into this philosophy.

Even more disturbing than the fact that specific products have become obsolete was the statement that we will guarantee products for five years after last production. That is the very definition of planned obsolescence. It puts any future purchase on a countdown to obsolescence and I suspect that in itself will turn many off of future purchases.

I understand some would like to see a guaranteed time period but I personally would feel better with once again having faith that planned obsolescence was not at all part of the corporate culture again.

It isn't planned obsolescence st all. It is just saying we cannot be sure what might be necessary so here is a worst case scenario.

It's not even obsolescence.

Another more philosophical thought came to mind last night now that my initial anger has turned more to apathy.

Many, if not most of your customers probably bought into the Sonos ecosystem because of our disdain for "planned obsolescence". Sonos appeared to be one of the few technology companies that didn't buy into this philosophy.

Even more disturbing than the fact that specific products have become obsolete was the statement that we will guarantee products for five years after last production. That is the very definition of planned obsolescence. It puts any future purchase on a countdown to obsolescence and I suspect that in itself will turn many off of future purchases.

I understand some would like to see a guaranteed time period but I personally would feel better with once again having faith that planned obsolescence was not at all part of the corporate culture again.

It isn't planned obsolescence st all. It is just saying we cannot be sure what might be necessary so here is a worst case scenario.

It's not even obsolescence.

Yes it is planned obsolescence; statements like Sonos’ are the very definition of it

Another more philosophical thought came to mind last night now that my initial anger has turned more to apathy.

Many, if not most of your customers probably bought into the Sonos ecosystem because of our disdain for "planned obsolescence". Sonos appeared to be one of the few technology companies that didn't buy into this philosophy.

Even more disturbing than the fact that specific products have become obsolete was the statement that we will guarantee products for five years after last production. That is the very definition of planned obsolescence. It puts any future purchase on a countdown to obsolescence and I suspect that in itself will turn many off of future purchases.

I understand some would like to see a guaranteed time period but I personally would feel better with once again having faith that planned obsolescence was not at all part of the corporate culture again.

It isn't planned obsolescence st all. It is just saying we cannot be sure what might be necessary so here is a worst case scenario.

It's not even obsolescence.

I think the difference in our two opinions will end up coming down to company philosophy. If a company says we will support a product for a minimum of 5 years after last manufacture and then 5 years plus one day our product starts becoming less functional because the company wants more revenue from us, that is the very definition of planned obsolescence. If a company continues to attempt to keep older products working at 5 years plus one but a true technical issue prevents it and that company makes a serious effort to assist legacy users to upgrade the legacy product then I agree that is not planned obsolescence.

I think in the end it will come down to the faith we have in the new management. Many of us believed sonos was a product and service focused company. Many of us either no longer believe it or at the very least are seeing signs from senior management that are causing doubts.

I understand the anger at the original announcement (and I have a Bridge and a Connect that are affected by it), but I have to confess that I don’t understand the continuing anger now. Sonos have said that legacy products will continue to be supported for as long as possible, but that they won’t get new features due to the limitations of the hardware. This seems like a pretty reasonable stance to me.

They deserve criticism for misreading the lay of the land, but equally they deserve some credit for responding quickly with a reasonable compromise.

Sonos actually said from the start that legacy devices would not get updates (and nor would other speakers if you chose legacy mode) but would continue to be usable. What do you think they said?

Sorry, yes, I wasn’t clear. The problem was the “if you have any legacy products, none of your products will receive updates” thing. The compromise was that Sonos will provide a way of allowing legacy and modern products to co-exist, but allow the modern products to receive new features.

Where have you read that, only way new units get updated after May is if you split your system into new and legacy..

The first post in this thread?

I think the difference in our two opinions will end up coming down to company philosophy. If a company says we will support a product for a minimum of 5 years after last manufacture and then 5 years plus one day our product starts becoming less functional because the company wants more revenue from us, that is the very definition of planned obsolescence. If a company continues to attempt to keep older products working at 5 years plus one but a true technical issue prevents it and that company makes a serious effort to assist legacy users to upgrade the legacy product then I agree that is not planned obsolescence.

I don’t think you can really narrow it down to two opinions so cleanly. This thread has a wide range of opinions all over the board. Some are claiming that the products should last atleast 20 years and continue to be supported towards hardware failure. Some believe that the system design should have allowed for products of low capability to work with higher capability, the higher capability handling the heavy load. Some are accepting the technical issues, but feel Sonos should have given more warning. Some feel that Sonos should over more than 30% discount on replacement products. Some feel Sonos should offer to modify your existing product to increase it’s capabilities. Some think Sonos should be charging support fees.

I get an appreciate that you’re trying to make sense of it all, but the views we see here are rather diverse, some based on fact and some based on speculation.

I think in the end it will come down to the faith we have in the new management.

New management?

Many of us believed sonos was a product and service focused company. Many of us either no longer believe it or at the very least are seeing signs from senior management that are causing doubts.

I think many are also realizing that smart speakers are more like computers than traditional speakers in terms of how they age, further complicated by the fact they belong to a tightly integrated system.

I think the difference in our two opinions will end up coming down to company philosophy. If a company says we will support a product for a minimum of 5 years after last manufacture and then 5 years plus one day our product starts becoming less functional because the company wants more revenue from us, that is the very definition of planned obsolescence. If a company continues to attempt to keep older products working at 5 years plus one but a true technical issue prevents it and that company makes a serious effort to assist legacy users to upgrade the legacy product then I agree that is not planned obsolescence.

I don’t think you can really narrow it down to two opinions so cleanly. This thread has a wide range of opinions all over the board. Some are claiming that the products should last atleast 20 years and continue to be supported towards hardware failure. Some believe that the system design should have allowed for products of low capability to work with higher capability, the higher capability handling the heavy load. Some are accepting the technical issues, but feel Sonos should have given more warning. Some feel that Sonos should over more than 30% discount on replacement products. Some feel Sonos should offer to modify your existing product to increase it’s capabilities. Some think Sonos should be charging support fees.

I get an appreciate that you’re trying to make sense of it all, but the views we see here are rather diverse, some based on fact and some based on speculation.

I think in the end it will come down to the faith we have in the new management.

New management?

Many of us believed sonos was a product and service focused company. Many of us either no longer believe it or at the very least are seeing signs from senior management that are causing doubts.

I think many are also realizing that smart speakers are more like computers than traditional speakers in terms of how they age, further complicated by the fact they belong to a tightly integrated system.

Danny you are doing it again. Providing thoughtful, perceptive, informed and bslanced arguments. You really don't belong on this thread.

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