First things first. This is not a rant. This is an expalation of a problem, which reduces the experience in 3D audio a lot. For background: I'm a sound engineer and music producer and I don't wanna sound arrogant, but I know what I'm talking about. (I'm a really nice and funny guy :D)
This bug appeared the moment I switched the Arc with the Arc Ultra. Before I made the switch I was on the 16.1 app and firmware. So I don't know if the Ultra causes the problem or the app/firmware. Before the switch everything was running as it should.
So, since there is not much of a topic around this, I'm curious if I am still one of a few who have this bug or one of a few who noticed it.
I made this post in Reddit, but not everyone is on Reddit and the more people know, the faster Sonos can work on it. Reddit discussion
I didn't saw any review which mentioned it. As you can see in the video, the rear driver is completly silenent when the Era 300's are paired with the Arc Ultra. Also Truplay isn't "sweeping" the driver either. (Timestamp 0:44) So the mesurement isn't right. First I thought it could be a feature instead of a bug, but it doens't fit the Dolby Atmos recommendations like this. You won't get sound from "behind" your seating position. And I remember Sonos self promoted it how it should work, where the rear driver is playing.
Sound from side driver/channel should boucing off your side walls, rear driver/channel bouncing off the back wall of your seating position and height channel obviosly bouncing off your ceiling. Thats why you should position them facing forward. At the moment you don't get the immersion that sound is coming from behind you, since the driver is silent.
I tested every setting, played the Dolby Atmos testfile (MKV KTrueHD Atmos] and MP4 PEAC3 + joc Atmos]) from different sources (TV Plex app, Nvidia Shield, from a USB through TV) Same result everytime.
If someone could test this behavior and can confirm this, it would be very nice. Sonos can't fix something they don't know and if most people doens't recognize doens't mean something isn't wrong.
Currently I'm running app version 80.12.04 (Android) and 80.12.03 (iPhone) and firmware version 81.1-58210. If you don't have this problem, what version are you running?
And last but not least: IF this ever getting fixed, the experience with Arc Ultra and Era 300 will be much better! I love my Sonos products soundwise and Arc Ultra is sounding really good, but it could be much better.
Have a nice day
Page 9 / 13
Hi all, thank you all for your patience.
I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.
I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.
The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds. Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:
Surround TV Level and Music Level Slider Behavior: The surround level sliders adjust the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround channels equally. This is the intended behavior.
Using Surround Distance Setting to Adjust Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers relative to the sound bar:
Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.
Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.
Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.
There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds. This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.
The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array. This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.
Edit: Modified the wording on the 2nd and 3rd bolded points to closer match the wording in the app.
Hi all, thank you all for your patience.
I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.
I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.
The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds. Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:
Surround Distance Slider Behavior: The surround distance slider adjusts the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers equally. This is the intended behavior.
Adjusting Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers:
Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.
Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.
Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.
There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds. This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.
The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array. This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.
I’m flabbergasted that this should be a feature request since the speaker is currently working with 3 drivers instead of 6, but here we are:
The Era 300s should reproduce the rear atmos channels from the inner facing driver.
The height driver should be used for height channels
optional: let us adjust the volume of the inner/outside firing drivers separately from each other
Hi all, thank you all for your patience.
I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.
I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.
The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds. Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:
Surround Distance Slider Behavior: The surround distance slider adjusts the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers equally. This is the intended behavior.
Adjusting Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers:
Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.
Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.
Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.
There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds. This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.
The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array. This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.
My question is; has something changed here? Regarding rear channel audio being played in the height array.
My ears are too bad to notice any difference, but some people are certain.
I dont really care if 1 2 or 58 speakers in the era 300 is being used, as long as it sounds good. Which I think it does. But if this has been changed Im curious to why
I’m flabbergasted that this should be a feature request since the speaker is currently working with 3 drivers instead of 6, but here we are:
The Era 300s should reproduce the rear atmos channels from the inner facing driver.
The height driver should be used for height channels
optional: let us adjust the volume of the inner/outside firing drivers separately from each other
+1 on this.
For those of us with Era 100s, we have it just as bad… expect with a 5.1 or 7.1 source, we get NOTHING out of the rear surrounds, all surround content goes through the Ultra’s outside surround speakers, with nothing but faint reverb through the rear speakers. I sent my Ultra back today, if this is ever fixed, I will revisit… but to pay $1000 to upgrade and lose my surround experience, that’s just unacceptable.
My question is; has something changed here? Regarding rear channel audio being played in the height array.
My ears are too bad to notice any difference, but some people are certain.
I dont really care if 1 2 or 58 speakers in the era 300 is being used, as long as it sounds good. Which I think it does. But if this has been changed Im curious to why
It has changed 100%. I'm a guy who tests everything and back then with my original Arc and Era 300 it worked like I wanted to. I tested the individual channels to equal the loudness of each. Thats why I'm 100% sure that it was different before.
@Jamie A @Corry P If the rear surround channel is now being played from the height array, does this mean when adjusting the Height Audio level setting, it also makes the rear surround channel louder?
@Jamie A @Corry P If the rear surround channel is now being played from the height array, does this mean when adjusting the Height Audio level setting, it also makes the rear surround channel louder?
No, you can adjust the volume as you know it. Surround level is for side and rear channel and heights for height channel.
@Jamie A @Corry P If the rear surround channel is now being played from the height array, does this mean when adjusting the Height Audio level setting, it also makes the rear surround channel louder?
No, you can adjust the volume as you know it. Surround level is for side and rear channel and heights for height channel.
If the Height Audio setting increases/decreases the volume of the top driver, wouldn’t that affect ANY audio that is sent through that driver?
@Jamie A @Corry P If the rear surround channel is now being played from the height array, does this mean when adjusting the Height Audio level setting, it also makes the rear surround channel louder?
No, you can adjust the volume as you know it. Surround level is for side and rear channel and heights for height channel.
If the Height Audio setting increases/decreases the volume of the top driver, wouldn’t that affect ANY audio that is sent through that driver?
No because the volume is channel based, not driver based
the rear channel is no longer used then. It’s just height channel for rear effects and height effects.
all the other soundbar companies do it the correct way, but Sonos decides having a rear speaker point at the ceiling makes it sound better. What on god’s earth is happening here? What home audio person would do this? This makes no sense.
why are they neutering their system?
@Jamie A @Corry P If the rear surround channel is now being played from the height array, does this mean when adjusting the Height Audio level setting, it also makes the rear surround channel louder?
No, you can adjust the volume as you know it. Surround level is for side and rear channel and heights for height channel.
If the Height Audio setting increases/decreases the volume of the top driver, wouldn’t that affect ANY audio that is sent through that driver?
No because the volume is channel based, not driver based
so then what is this system considered? Still a 9.1.4?
Hi all, thank you all for your patience.
I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.
I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.
The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds. Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:
Surround Distance Slider Behavior: The surround distance slider adjusts the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers equally. This is the intended behavior.
Adjusting Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers:
Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.
Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.
Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.
There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds. This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.
The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array. This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.
Jamie,
To put into perspective what is being done here:
This is like buying a 7.1.4 dedicated system, and then pointing the rears to ceiling which makes no conceivable sense. The .4 already takes care of this portion. Why on earth would be we point rears towards the ceiling?
Hi all, thank you all for your patience.
I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.
I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.
The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds. Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:
Surround Distance Slider Behavior: The surround distance slider adjusts the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers equally. This is the intended behavior.
Adjusting Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers:
Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.
Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.
Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.
There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds. This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.
The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array. This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.
This is the equivalent of pointing rear speakers to the ceiling. It’s asinine and makes no sense….
Hi all, thank you all for your patience.
I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.
I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.
The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds. Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:
Surround Distance Slider Behavior: The surround distance slider adjusts the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers equally. This is the intended behavior.
Adjusting Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers:
Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.
Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.
Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.
There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds. This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.
The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array. This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.
If the inside drivers were silent this entire time, it would have been mentioned during this Q&A session. They only mention the front-facing driver being disabled. See the answer to the first question:
the rear channel is no longer used then. It’s just height channel for rear effects and height effects.
all the other soundbar companies do it the correct way, but Sonos decides having a rear speaker point at the ceiling makes it sound better. What on god’s earth is happening here? What home audio person would do this? This makes no sense.
why are they neutering their system?
Especially when you have a vaulted ceiling a high ceiling… it doesn't sound better, it doesn't sound at all.
Hi all, thank you all for your patience.
I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.
I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.
The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds. Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:
Surround Distance Slider Behavior: The surround distance slider adjusts the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers equally. This is the intended behavior.
Adjusting Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers:
Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.
Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.
Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.
There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds. This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.
The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array. This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.
Sorry Jamie, the last part (The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.) is such a BS reply.
Here’s a Sonos Era 300 Q&A YouTube video from last year:
Pay attention to Product Manager Ryan Moore’s answer to the very first question. The rear channel audio is SUPPOSED to be playing from the other inward-firing side tweeter/woofer. What we have now is clearly a bug that’s being dismissed as a “feature”.
Sorry Jamie, the last part (The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.) is such a BS reply.
Here’s a Sonos Era 300 Q&A YouTube video from last year:
Pay attention to Product Manager Ryan Moore’s answer to the very first question. The rear channel audio is SUPPOSED to be playing from the other inward-firing side tweeter/woofer. What we have now is clearly a bug that’s being dismissed as a “feature”.
Thank you! And saying it wasn't like that (this is what the audio team said) is just a lie.
Sorry Jamie, the last part (The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.) is such a BS reply.
Here’s a Sonos Era 300 Q&A YouTube video from last year:
Pay attention to Product Manager Ryan Moore’s answer to the very first question. The rear channel audio is SUPPOSED to be playing from the other inward-firing side tweeter/woofer. What we have now is clearly a bug that’s being dismissed as a “feature”.
Thank you! And saying it wasn't like that (this is what the audio team said) is just a lie.
im at a standstill to return the system or not………...
Completely *disabling* inner tweeter for "rear" channel is 100% breaking of Dolby spec,
and obviously technically wrong for anybody remotely familiar with the Atmos implementation.
Non-firing inners is a straight-up bug, no question.
Anyone stating otherwise is just confused on the exact technical issue at play here.
Straight up lying about the issue, we have reached a new low here
Should I return the entire system? Feels like samsung, or any other brand, would automatically be better by default just because all of their channels/drivers fire appropriately…
Sorry Jamie, the last part (The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.) is such a BS reply.
Here’s a Sonos Era 300 Q&A YouTube video from last year:
Pay attention to Product Manager Ryan Moore’s answer to the very first question. The rear channel audio is SUPPOSED to be playing from the other inward-firing side tweeter/woofer. What we have now is clearly a bug that’s being dismissed as a “feature”.
Wow!! It’s at the 2:00 minute mark if anybody wants to jump right to it.
I thought Sonos had explained in the media and on these forums that only the center was disabled and that the Era 300 sides were used for surround rear on the inside and surround side on the outside.
These official posts about the inside being disabled intentionally alongside the center made me doubt my own memories. Literally unbelievable until you showed us this video. Well done.
Sorry Jamie, the last part (The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.) is such a BS reply.
Here’s a Sonos Era 300 Q&A YouTube video from last year:
Pay attention to Product Manager Ryan Moore’s answer to the very first question. The rear channel audio is SUPPOSED to be playing from the other inward-firing side tweeter/woofer. What we have now is clearly a bug that’s being dismissed as a “feature”.
Wow!! It’s at the 2:00 minute mark if anybody wants to jump right to it.
I thought Sonos had explained in the media and on these forums that only the center was disabled and that the Era 300 sides were used for surround rear on the inside and surround side on the outside.
These official posts about the inside being disabled intentionally alongside the center made me doubt my own memories. Literally unbelievable until you showed us this video. Well done.
Just within the last hour, they have changed the video’s visibility to private! They were caught in a lie and are now trying to remove evidence.
Transcript of the now-private Q&A video, then Principal Product Manager Ryan Moore speaking:
"It really boils down to the way that our acoustic engineers tested the speakers in all of our different listening environments, as we were developing Era 300. And really what they found was, when these are used as surrounds..., we found that the best, most immersive, kind of clearest separation came when this center waveguide was turned off because you're really able to send sound to that rear side points to the outward-firing side tweeter/woofer] and rear surround ]points to the other inward-firing side tweeter/woofer] and keep things really separated and really clear."
Sorry Jamie, the last part (The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.) is such a BS reply.
Here’s a Sonos Era 300 Q&A YouTube video from last year:
Pay attention to Product Manager Ryan Moore’s answer to the very first question. The rear channel audio is SUPPOSED to be playing from the other inward-firing side tweeter/woofer. What we have now is clearly a bug that’s being dismissed as a “feature”.
Wow!! It’s at the 2:00 minute mark if anybody wants to jump right to it.
I thought Sonos had explained in the media and on these forums that only the center was disabled and that the Era 300 sides were used for surround rear on the inside and surround side on the outside.
These official posts about the inside being disabled intentionally alongside the center made me doubt my own memories. Literally unbelievable until you showed us this video. Well done.
Just within the last hour, they have changed the video’s visibility to private! They were caught in a lie and are now trying to remove evidence.
Transcript of the now-private Q&A video, then Principal Product Manager Ryan Moore speaking:
"It really boils down to the way that our acoustic engineers tested the speakers in all of our different listening environments, as we were developing Era 300. And really what they found was, when these are used as surrounds..., we found that the best, most immersive, kind of clearest separation came when this center waveguide was turned off because you're really able to send sound to that rear side points to the outward-firing side tweeter/woofer] and rear surround ]points to the other inward-firing side tweeter/woofer] and keep things really separated and really clear."
This is the last straw @Jamie A @Keith - Sonos @Corry P , caught lying and now trying to remove evidence by making the video private.
This is shameless, never thought I’d see a real, huge problem like this being handled in such an unprofessional way by Sonos, even considering it’s less than stellar past record when it comes to busting their own software.
Will our “feature request” (lol) be taken into consideration?
